Digital BW, The Print

Thank you very much, Brian.  

I'm fairly experienced with B&W conversion methods in PS so I am relieved to know that I 
can continue working in that fashion and change to greyscale just before printing.  I like to 
use Hue/Saturation and Selective Color layers just underneath the B&W conversion layer 
(gradient map, channel mixer or whatever) to gain more control over the B&W tones.  

But is there any disadvantage to working this way?  Clayton Jones recommends converting 
to greyscale directly after doing the B&W conversion of a color file and then doing levels, 
curves, etc. in greyscale mode.  Doing it that way I'd lose out on all of the increased 
control I have over the B&W image using layers that are only possible in RGB space.

Best,
Chris

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Chapman" 
<brianechapman@...> wrote:
>
> Chris, 
> 
> This tutorial is an excellent introduction to a couple of the most 
> popular methods used to convert an image to black and white.  
> 
> http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/color-black-white.htm
> 
> Any of these methods can be made more flexible by adding 
> additional 'conversion' layers (channel mixer, hue layer) and using 
> layer masks to allow only portions of each conversion layer to show 
> through.  Different methods can also be combined.  I am currently 
> writing an article/tutorial describing ways to improve flexibility 
> in some of the methods mentioned in the link (I'll post it here when 
> I'm done).  Email me offline if you want the first draft or have any 
> questions, I'm happy to help.    
> 
> In my workflow I choose to convert to grayscale mode just before 
> printing because I like to work on the image as a black and white 
> RGB image so I can make adjustments to the conversion as well as 
> other tonal adjustments.  Plus, if you're going to add a toning 
> layer (maybe for the K3 with color toning) later you'll need to 
> convert back to RGB to do so.  
> 
> Anyway, I know this was slightly off the printing topic but it's an 
> important part of getting good results in print form!
> 
> Brian
> http://www.brianchapmanphotography.com
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "chriskjezp" 
> <chriskresser@> wrote:
> >
> > Clayton & Paul,
> > 
> > Thank you so much for your thorough replies.  I'm really much 
> closer to understanding 
> > how this works, thanks to your generous help.
> > 
> > It sounds like starting with an r220 and a variable tone MIS ink 
> set, along with Paul's ICC 
> > profiles and toning curves, is a good way to get my feet wet and 
> learn the ropes.  And it 
> > sounds like this method can produce very good prints.
> > 
> > Quick question: I'm assuming I can also use these ICC profiles to 
> do a soft-proof of the 
> > print in Photoshop.  Is this correct?
> > 
> > I guess I'll continue to use my Canon MP800 for heavily 
> toned/colorized B&W prints until I 
> > can afford a 2400.  At that point I'll have more flexible option, 
> where I can use RGB/color 
> > workflow when printing colorized B&Ws and the ABW/greyscale (or 
> QTR RIP) mode when 
> > I'm printing "classic" and warm/cool toned B&Ws.
> > 
> > Thanks again,
> > Chris
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Clayton 
> Jones" <cj@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello Chris,
> > > 
> > > >I've read over most of your webiste Paul, and also all of the 
> > > >articles on Clayton's website. 
> > > >I'm not at all sure at what point in the B&W conversion process 
> > > >(from my color RAW file) I should convert from RGB to 
> greyscale.  
> > > 
> > > 
> > > I just recently revised article #9 (the 2400 workflow) 
> > > 
> > >    http://www.cjcom.net/articles/digiprn9.htm
> > > 
> > > and added more detail to the section on converting to BW.  
> Basically
> > > the first thing is to apply whatever methods you want to remove 
> the
> > > color while in RGB, and then change to grayscale mode.  At this 
> point
> > > the image is ready for any levels, curves and other typical work 
> as a
> > > BW image.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > >Another question that may help me decide on a printer: with the 
> K3 
> > > >printers (2400 in particular) is it recommended to also use a 
> > > >greyscale workflow for B&W prints, or is it possible to get 
> good 
> > > >prints using an RGB workflow and applying any toning in RGB 
> color 
> > > >space...
> > > 
> > > I think it's possible to get good prints that way, but they of 
> course
> > > will have a different look and feel.  The ABW mode uses 
> primarily the
> > > three blacks with colors added only as toners, so the tones are
> > > limited to a warm/cool range.  If you wanted, for example, a gold
> > > colored tone, or any other hue outside of the grayscale warm/cool
> > > range, then the RGB/color controls approach would be required.  
> When
> > > making BW prints with ABW there is no advantage to keeping the 
> image
> > > in RGB.  All you have is images that are three times as large.  
> When
> > > you switch to grayscale the image becomes 1/3 it's former size.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > >How about the 2200 in this regard (though it uses the UC inks 
> > > >rather than K3 and is thus not as "archival")?
> > > 
> > > Yes, exactly.  The K3 is much better in that regard.   The K3 
> printers
> > > are a big step forward in technology over the 2200 (and 1280, 
> 220 and
> > > the rest) for several reasons: better longevity, less bronzing 
> and
> > > gloss differential on glossy papers, three blacks for much 
> better BW
> > > prints, and the driver has essentially what is a built in semi-
> RIP
> > > with it's ABW system.  ABW uses primarily the three blacks, 
> adding
> > > color inks as toners to create the warm/cool tone you specify 
> with the
> > > controls.  Using a 3rd party RIP with the 2400 (such as QTR) 
> gives
> > > even greater control over the inks (for example, eliminating the
> > > Yellow from the toning mix).
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Regards,
> > > Clayton
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Info on black and white digital printing at    
> > > http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
> > >
> >
>