Digital BW, The Print

Thanks Sarah!

I really like the look of BO - partly because of it's warmth (I am 
currently using only the neutral set of R2 inks) and partly because 
I like the intensity of the blacks.  For the most part I'm not 
bothered by the dots either, in fact I've been most impressed with 
some of the lighter images!  Like Clayton mentioned, there are 
definately surprises!  

Brian
http://www.brianchapmanphotography.com

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "sagaface" 
<sagaface@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Brian,
> 
> I use BO for most of my images but that is because my palette is 
quite dark AND high 
> contrast. For images that have small-step midtone gradations 
between pure black and 
> white I find QTR handles those better. BO's "dot" pattern will be 
more noticable if you have 
> large expanses of lighter tones, which turns some people off, 
though it doesn't bother me. 
> Still, in my images which as I said are very dark, I don't really 
deal with that issue much. 
> With the MIS Eboni ink and BO I feel like I could fall into the 
shadows, whereas with QTR 
> there's just a teeny bit less depth to my eye, but still enough 
for me to notice.
> 
> It's all extremely individual, I think. Step wedges and all the 
other measurements are very 
> helpful, but the bottom line is whether your eye likes the 
results, no matter what the 
> method or the popularity/preference of alternate methods by 
others. It's great to have 
> choices, and it's great to have a forum where you can explore and 
learn from others' often 
> more extensive experience. I know I have. Good luck with BO 
printing!
> 
> Sarah
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Brian 
Chapman" 
> <brianechapman@> wrote:
> >
> > Hey Clayton,
> > 
> > As it turns out, when I configured my settings exactly as you 
> > describe I still felt there was a difference between the BO and 
full 
> > ink methods, however, when I finally printed a step wedge, it 
turns 
> > out that they look almost identical! 
> > 
> > This is the test image - in hindsight I probably should have 
used 
> > something else without a huge dark area...
> > http://www.flickr.com/photos/brianechapman/132207963/
> > 
> > So because there really isn't a difference I must be perceiving 
one 
> > for some reason.  One possibility is that because the blacks are 
> > more intense in the BO prints that it contributes to an overall 
> > darker feeling when a large part of the image is dark.  The 
other is 
> > that the transitions are different between the dark and darker 
areas 
> > using BO vs full ink - the neutral full ink method looks gray 
> > compared to the BO method at the same density so it may 
> > appear "darker" when it really isn't.  
> > 
> > I'd be interested in hearing if people have found that certain 
types 
> > of images don't work well with BO printing...?  Anyway, I hope 
this 
> > is interesting/helpful to someone...it is to me :)
> > 
> > Thanks, Brian
> > 
> > http://www.brianchapmanphotography.com
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Brian 
Chapman" 
> > <brianechapman@> wrote:
> > >in
> > > Thanks Clayton - I think the neurons might actually be 
starting to 
> > > fire. :)  ...finally.
> > > 
> > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Clayton 
> > Jones" 
> > > <cj@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hello Brian,
> > > > 
> > > > >Thanks for the info!  My goal is to get some consistency 
across 
> > > my 
> > > > >prints/workflow - and you're right on about 'too many 
workflow 
> > > > >variables'!!  Assuming that I follow your 
instructions/settings 
> > > > >exactly then there shouldn't be a significant difference 
> > between 
> > > BO 
> > > > >and full ink when using Gamma 2.2, correct?     
> > > > 
> > > > Well, possibly not, because that wouldn't be following the
> > > > instructions exactly.  The article recommends using DG20 for 
the
> > > > default gray space setting and image profile, printer 
profile 
> > set 
> > > to
> > > > Same As Source (or No Color Management in CS2), and printer 
> > gamma 
> > > 1.8.
> > > >  With those settings I can go between BO and full ink 
printing. 
> > > > That's the combination I've found that gives me the most 
> > > versatility
> > > > and good WYSIWYG.  It isn't carved in stone - you can use 
> > anything 
> > > you
> > > > want and make it work, but there are trade-offs for 
everything.  
> > > The
> > > > above combination is just a sort of sweet spot that I find 
most
> > > > convenient and hassle free.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > >As for my initial issue, the one potential (and potentially 
> > > > >significant as you mentioned below) issue is that I may or 
may 
> > > not 
> > > > >have converted the image to grayscale prior to printing - 
and 
> > > > >therefore the image could have been using Adobe 1998 
instead of 
> > > DG20 
> > > > >which may have made a difference between the two ink 
settings 
> > (BO 
> > > & 
> > > > >full ink). 
> > > > 
> > > > Quite possibly.  I do everything in grayscale.  I did lots of
> > > > experiments in the early days and found no advantage to 
staying 
> > in 
> > > RGB
> > > > mode, with files three times as big.  With a color digicam 
image 
> > I
> > > > manipulate the RGB channels during conversion to BW, but 
once 
> > > that's
> > > > done I convert to grayscale.
> > > > 
> > > > BTW, an important part of this workflow is having the gray 
space 
> > in
> > > > Color Settings set to DG20.  Having it at GG2.2 and later 
> > assigning
> > > > the image profile to DG20 won't do the job.  The gray space 
> > > setting is
> > > > what determines the actual image pixel values at the time of 
> > > grayscale
> > > > conversion (or importing a scanned neg).  Assigning a 
different
> > > > profile later merely changes how it's displayed on screen - 
it 
> > > won't
> > > > change the image or the print.  In order to do that the 
profile 
> > > must
> > > > be Converted.  But if you convert after you have worked on 
the 
> > > image
> > > > it will change everything you've done (it will look the same 
on 
> > > screen
> > > > but will change the image and the print).  So it's best to 
have 
> > it 
> > > go
> > > > to the profile you want right at the beginning, whether 
scanning 
> > a 
> > > neg
> > > > or using a color digicam file.  
> > > > 
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Clayton
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Info on black and white digital printing at    
> > > > http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
> > > >
> > >
> >
>