Digital BW, The Print

Larry Heath wrote:
> http://www.marrutt.com/digital-ink-myths-2.php
> 
> 
> Is there any doubt that the person writing the article above  would be saying what is said?
> 
> Tony Martin is President of Lyson USA.
> 
> A premier purveyor of dye based inks.
> 
>>From Lyson's  US website as follows,
> 
> Independent testing carried out by Wilhelm Imaging Research, Inc. of Grinnell, Iowa has shown that a Lysonic ink set has an estimated life of 65-75 years on a pure cotton paper in average indoor display without noticeable fading*. 
> 
> 
> Notice what is said, specifically, "a pure cotton paper", I am not real sure just how many pure cotton papers I use. I have the feeling I would have to go a ways to find a pure cotton paper. I am under the impression that any number archival papers use cotton fiber as a base, but, are prepared in such manor as to provide buffers and other substances to enhance longevity and or surface texture and just how the paper absorbs the substances placed on the surface as well as how the substances are conveyed into the base of the paper or not.
> 
> Color gamut is a moot point in this forum, is it not?  i.e. "DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint".  Will an apparent greater color gamut in a dye based ink set as opposed to a pigmented ink set produce a greater Dmax black or better highlights? Can't say for sure one way or another, but I am willing to guess that it will not. While I have produced some pleasing B&W prints using MIS pigmented color ink sets I am pretty sure that these prints will not last as long as a pigmented multi black ink set on a paper of known archival quality. On top of that, producing B&W using color inks, is not a point and shoot deal and they do or can have some characteristics that are not pleasing and are difficult to control. 
> 
> Is pigmented digital B&W printing, using multi-level black ink sets the best that can be had in the digital realm, a myth? My opinion is that it is not. I am pretty sure that the right B&W ink set on a compatable paper can do a heck of a lot better than, 65 to 75 years. Check Wilhelm for specifics on pigmented B&W prints, and see what they have to say. 
> 
> Larry Heath

Larry,

Wilhelm tested dye inks on pure cotton in the past. That is 
paper without any inkjet coating like you would use in 
intaglio printing etc. Arches for Iris, BFK Rives. This 
testing was based on tests done for the Iris printer with dye 
inks from several sources. Lyson made an ink like that 
(Lysonic) and their Lysonic-E and Fotonic were further 
developments from that ink but adapted for the Epson 9000 etc. 
The CMYK sets tested like quoted on the pure cotton papers but 
failed miserably when used on inkjet coated papers that were 
then introduced, Hahnemuhle German Etching for example. CcMmYK 
sets were worse on all papers. The dye inks on pure cotton 
show far less detail and color gamut + they are not waterproof 
(dye on inkjet coated paper is better but doesn't get near 
pigment ink on coated paper).

The Lyson websites have misleading quotes from their own 
tests. Lysonic E which has a lousy color gamut are tested on 
CcMmYK printers, Fotonic which has a good color gamut but cm 
inks that fade is tested on CMYK printers. The dye ink 
competition was tested on CcMmYK printers (Van Son). The test 
itself should be Wilhelm like according to Lyson, the 
interpretation in years is Lyson like. I have used Epson, 
Lysonic-E, Fotonic and Van Son dyes in an Epson 9000 and they 
all faded.

So far no dye ink has beaten the pigment inks in longevity. 
The HP dyes in combination with the right HP papers are 
probably the best on the market right now and are Wilhelm 
tested. The choice of papers is limited though.


Ernst
                    --
           Ernst Dinkla


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