Digital BW, The Print

So what you are saying is you really don't know how long these inks will last.
Don't know anything about the technology involved in these inks. You suspect some company/s are using infusion technology with their papers. The inks perform well on non infusion papers but not with the Epson driver so a RIP is needed and the BO is too cool in color and is problematic when trying to get a nuetral balance even with QTR. So even with a RIP these inks may be a problem. Then you say that this is not Inkvillages first blunder and you don't have a problem with Futures language. I don't think anyone at inkvillage knows what their talking about. What is it EXACTLY you are trying to say? 

Walt

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Kale [mailto:stevekale@...]
Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 12:22 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Nanochrome BO printing?

Well I guess it's not the first "blunder" made by the InkVillage marketing
department but we also know that marketing departments often take a bit of
latitude.  I don't let the names bother me.  I don't see a problem with the
Futures language given they are changing their name to Infu6:  Infu6 have
inks and media hence "Infu6 inks and media".


Again, subject to longevity tests, these inks perform very well on non Infu6
media.  The tests I've done in the most detail are on Hahnemuhle Photorag
308.  I've not had the chance to test, to my knowledge, papers that have
used Infu6's infusion technology.  I say "to the best of my knowledge"
because I believe they have licensed their technology to a number of paper
manufacturers.  Infu6 is not in a position to disclose who these licensees
are but I'm willing to bet that these are firms which supply some big names
we are all familiar with.  It could well be that some of the newer papers in
the market are beginning to explore technologies brought by Infu6, as I'm
sure other companies are exploring ways to use the technology in different
ways to get around the patents - such is business.  The coordination of
media and ink is nothing new.  We all know that Epson is beginning to get
better at this.  I would consider the performance of Infu6 designed inks to
be no different.  They will in all likelihood perform better on substrates
embedded with their ink receptor.  They seem to perform ok on substrates
that don't as well.

"Editor" raised a valid point.  As soon as one moves away from OEM ink (or
their replicas) and OEM media there are potential issues with ink limits.
This again is nothing new.  When we run non-Epson papers through our
machines we often have to explore different paper settings.  In large part
this is simply testing the different ink limits embedded in the Epson driver
to see which one might work the best.  If an ink is significantly different
from Epson's solution then the more likely the choice of ink limits embedded
in the Epson driver will not be appropriate.  This was the subject of the
preliminary tests I did a few days ago (posted here and on the Wide Format
group).  The Epson driver does not allow us to control ink limits and
linearization - understandably in many respects.  Epson is not in the
business of RIP design per se.  They provide a solution for use with their
printers and their ink and media.  For all the rest there are a bunch of
other third party solutions.  My initial tests of the Nanochromes using the
Epson 2100 driver suggested that the ink limits embedded in it (for EAM and
Epson Premium Semigloss paper settings at least) were not appropriate for
these inks on the media I tested due to the fact that they peaked in density
at ink loads less than the limit in the driver.  That's not to say that the
colorant density of the inks is too high.  A paper developed with the
infusion process may, for example, be able to absorb and bond with a higher
ink load and deliver increased density.  It does, however, and
understandably when you think about it, suggest that one is not going to get
the best results from these inks using a driver designed for a totally
different ink set and a narrow range of media.  A RIP which offers full
control over ink limits, linearization etc is going to be needed for optimum
results.  It's my understanding that this was the rationale that led to some
members of the Infu6/Futures team (I think this part of the business is
separate from Infu6) working with R9 Corporation to develop the so-called
PocketRIP that we keep hearing snippets about.  I suspect the aim was to
provide a RIP that was competitively priced and hence make it easier for
people to get the best out of the inks.

So within the broad Futures/Infu6 umbrella you have development of
"infusion" technology for introducing ink receptors directly into the
manufacturing process of substrates (as opposed to coating them), new ink
designs (the first formulation being licensed to InkVillage for manufacture
and marketing) which understandably are tailored to work with these ink
receptor formulations, and a RIP so that people can optimise the performance
of the "system" rather than jamming a round peg into a square hole by using
the Epson driver.

That's about all I know but I think this should help put things in
perspective at least.  Whether the first lot of product stacks up is still
to be proven.  The Nanochrome formulation on paper seems to perform rather
well on matte media and a little behind Epson PK on photo media (I found
that Nanochrome K peaked in density at L*5.6 at 45% ink limit using QTR on
Crane's Silver Rag), but the performance is excellent for a single black.  I
don't think I've really tested colour gamut properly as I was using the
Epson driver with its embedded ink limits.  To the best of my knowledge I
have not tested a media with Infu6 technology yet.  And of course we still
haven't seen any longevity/fade test data.


> From: Ernst Dinkla <E.Dinkla@chello.nl>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 09:25:52 +0100
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Nanochrome BO printing?
> 
> Steve Kale wrote:
>> Firstly, while I'm no expert on these things perhaps I can share a little of
>> my understanding of the inks.  There is no "infusion" process associated
>> with the inks.  The "infusion" reference, incorrectly applied to these inks
>> on occasion, actually applies to the substrate/coating component of Futures'
>> business, or as they are now called, I believe, Infu6.  The word "infusion"
>> comes from the fact that they hold various patents with respect to infusing
>> their ink receptor into the paper manufacturing process - it becomes part of
>> the substrate manufacture rather than being "coated" afterwards.  So there
>> is no dye impregnated into anything at all.
> 
> Good. That's making things much more clear. Then it is
> essentially a dye incorporating a second component to seal the
> bond with the infused paper. Then I hope they get rid of the
> infusion term in their Nanochrome inks advertising on the
> following sites:
> 
> http://www.inkvillage.com/
> 
> NanoChrome inkjet ink with Hybrid Resin Infusion Technology
> result in prints with an exceptionally wide gamut for true
> reproduction of colors that are neutral and therefore true to
> the original image.
> 
> http://www.ussublimation.com/Bulk_Printer_Ink_in_Bottles.htm
> 
> Same line of text + the line: Tested over 100 yrs fade
> resistance. (I thought they would postpone that claim till
> there were tests done)
> 
> Not to mention the text on Futures own webpages:
> 
> To take full advantage of the gamut width, brought about by
> the Infu6 Inks and media,
> 
> End of quotes.
> 
> Or should I interpret it that the inks only deliver that
> quality on the infused papers ?  I would have phrased it in
> another way then.
> 
> 
>                     --
>            Ernst Dinkla
> 
> 
> www.pigment-print.com
> (         unvollendet         )
> 
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