Digital BW, The Print

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Carolyn Frayn 
<carolynfrayn@s...> wrote:
>  
> >> Sorry Jim, I'm not familiar with Pauls workflows, do you set 
color
> >> management to (no color adjustment) in PS6?
> > 
> > 
> > In the dialogue box for Epson printer, under "advanced", color
> > management--->"color controls" is selected- not no color 
management.
> > Then in the last dialogue box before print starts, the source is
> > selected as sRGB and printer space is selected as "same as 
source".
> > Does that answer your question? I'm a little blurry as to what 
other
> > color management you might be asking about.
> 
> Little different on the Mac, in advanced, there is "color 
management" that
> is where "no color management" or "automatic" are choosen.


Yes, that option exist in a Windows form too in "advanced". I was 
trying to say that perhaps not too clearly. There are a series of 
radio buttons which essentially let you choose "no color management" 
or "color controls". Then there is a pull down menu under the radio 
buttons. At least when "color controls" is active, "automatic is a 
selection here.

> 
> If you are using a workflow that is epson driver setting dependant 
and sRGB
> as your source space and "same as source" as your printer space, 
then it's
> probably set to automatic.

Yes it is.

> 
> 
> > 
> >> 
> >> In PS7 when you choose color management > source/print spaces and
> >> intent,
> >> then go back to the print driver dialogue it doesn't allow you to
> > >choose "no
> >> color adjustment"  like in PS6..  So is PS7 assuming "no color
> > >adjustment"
> >> when a source/print space is selected?

This may be a moot point, since "no color adjustment" is never used as 
an option in Paul's workflow for PC. I think Tyler's workflow may. So 
in both PS7 and 6, "color controls" is selected.

> > 
> > If I understand your question, as in PS6 I have the "advanced"
> > dialouge box color management set to the "color controls" radio
> > button. In fact to avoid mistakes I just saved all of Paul's 
settings
> > so I can choose them from a pull down menu on the "details"
> > tab--->custom radio button. The saved settings come up in both PS6 
and
> > PS7.
> 
> I'd have to go see his settings then. I assume this workflow was 
created
> before switching to the "no color adjustment" one.

Yes. Did Paul change it? As I just said, I think Tylers workflow is 
"no adjustment".

> 
<snip>
> 
> Then I converted both crops to sRGB, one in PS6 and one in PS7, the 
histos
> again showed the same variance, but the prints, printed the same as 
above
> only with the sRGB space chooses, printed indentically.  Although 
there is
> that slight difference in the way the two versions handle the 
conversion I
> don't see it in these prints.

Puzzling. It seems like no-one can reproduce the print change with a 
real print. Maybe I have something set wrong, but I honestly don't 
know what it would be. And the PS7 print is darker in shadows, more 
contrasty by a tad, and posterized. Could my eyes lie like that? 
Perhaps the only way to check this out is for someone to run a step 
wedge in both PS6 and PS7 and measure it with a spectrophotometer.

One other difference to note (I mentioned it in other posts but should 
have highlighted it)is that Paul has a number of curves, some not 
published as official curves on the MIS site. Paul was good enough to 
send me a set of curves for the 1280 at 2880 dpi. He hadn't quite 
finished these before he realized most people didn't need to go above 
1440. But they work very well on Eclipse Satine paper I found, and on 
many prints I discovered the details came out sharper. All the curves 
are based on the same idea however, they just lay down a little more 
or less ink for a given %k. Of course, instead of choosing 1440 dpi, I 
chose 2880 in the advanced dialouge.
Could that be it?

> 
> Did the same thru pressready, to cmyk profile, identical prints.
> 
> I can't print with quads tonight, one printer is down, another set 
up for
> press at the moment... and others just are what they are... but was 
curious
> about the conversion differences with relation to the prints.  any 
prints.

Maybe the step wedge thing is the way to go if you have something to 
measure it with.

> 
> > Please, thank you. My workaround is simply to print in PS6, but I
> > really don't understand what is happening and it is time for wiser
> > folks than me to look at this. I see it but I don't believe that 
I'm
> > really the first to have stumbled on this. We should have heard of 
it
> > before now. But I'm running out of ideas of how I could have 
messed
> > some setting up.
> 
> When you try printing with the epson inks I'll be curious to hear of 
your
> results.

No, I was just running them to try to clear what I thought was a 
gummed up printer causing the discrepancy. An old trick I learned to 
partially clear the problems with the old Piezo inkset. But it didn't 
improve the PS7 print obviously. Nice to know it's not the printer 
though.
Jim H. 
> 
> Carolyn