Digital BW, The Print

Yes Eric. In theory you can match silver prints and this is what I developed the technique for in the first place. However, I just haven't had enough time with teaching and my own art to go ahead and really get it rolling. (I wanted to start a library of lab values for various silver prints) So I'm excited that someone else here is getting into it.

vis a vis linearizing the patches. The word "linearization" as it pertains to xrite patches is a mis-nomer. Essentially you are creating a custom patch set based upon your printer/rip base characteristics (tonal/hue curve) when you do this in ColorPort. This is especially useful in StudioPrint because if you use an un-linearized patch set and build an xrite profile out of those readings, neutrality tends to get screwy.

So you first build your StudioPrint/colorburst environment and linearize it. Then you linearize your xrite patches (by printing the lin target through the new environment). Then you build the lin'd patches in Cport and print them and build the CMYK profile. Then you go in and build the custom input profile used to neutralize (then tone) the output image.


REMEMBER: Invert the A/B values when building the 'neutralize' input profile.

Walker


On Apr 21, 2010, at 12:35 PM, CelluloidPhotography wrote:

> Alright, I think I have enough info to keep myself busy for a while. lol
> I've never used the linearization option in Colorport, will it conflict with my linearization in SP? Or should I use it in place of it?
> 
> So if I actually succeed in this, I should be able to match any tone, say a warm toned RC print, or sepia fiber print, as long as I can measure a grayscale target printed with said tone? How awesome!
> 
> Let the head-against-the-wall banging begin!
> 
> Thanks Walker!
> 
> I'll post back once I either succeed or get stuck. ;)
> 
> -Eric
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Walker Blackwell <forums@...> wrote:
> >
> > In theory you could do this with Studioprint but in my opinions SP12 does not apply input profiles correctly but it's worth a try. Essentially what you are doing is building a custom CMYK environment using the Epson dither because that dither neutralizes the K channel before it hits your spectrophotometer. The profiling software then works less to build a good profile. However, you do need pre-linearize your profile patches using Colorport (if you are using the xrite patches). This gives a better profile using StudioPrint or Colorburst.
> > 
> > Once you have a good color CMYK environment (that does decent BW prints) you print out a 50 patch grayscale target through it. Then you read these values in and invert the a/b values in Excel. When you then apply this create-ICC profile as an input profile in the studioprint/colorburst environment, it will "neutralize" the print. The first goal is to get a near-perfect level of a/b going down your entire print. Then you can read in the values for a 50 patch swatch printed from a piezo printer and add these values to the excel "neutralize" a/b values. Build this profile, use it as an input, and in theory it will match the piezo system. In practice, it requires many iterations of tweaking. You can use excel to do iterative profiling using create-icc. I've been trying to come up with a formula that can computer to the a/b "momentum" (or swing) per L value on X printer, but I'm just not that smart. If someone does figure out that excel formula, than perfect matches can be created using modern Epson printers (11880,9900) and Colorburst (or possibly studioprint.) It would require min three patches per L value added to the "neutralize" a/b values from the first printed gray target.
> > 
> > Walker
> > 
> > 
> > On Apr 19, 2010, at 1:46 PM, CelluloidPhotography wrote:
> > 
> > > Thanks for the info guys, sorry for the delayed response, I decided to treat myself to a weekend away from the computer screen... a rare thing these days.
> > > 
> > > I'm really excited to hear that you were able to match a piezography tone, that would be an incredibly useful thing!
> > > Walker, I've been mulling over your suggestions so I might be able to avoid unnecessarily dumb questions... I do have a couple though. lol
> > > First off- can I accomplish this using Studioprint? Assuming I can, I would want to use an HTM environment if my goal is to use Epson dithering, right?
> > > Perhaps most importantly, at what point do I define the tone (I assume that's where the createICC profile comes in)? Would I need to send my images to the RIP as toned color prints, or would the profile be set to print a specific tone?
> > > 
> > > I understand time is money, so if this is crazy complex, I don't expect you to sit down and write a novel explaining it to me. If that's the case, maybe I could get you on the phone for a little paid consulting.
> > > 
> > > Thanks again for the input!
> > > 
> > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Walker Blackwell <forums@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > If you look in the archives I mentioned bw tuning of colorburst for 11880 to match a prior piezography hue-split. It can be done. Will take a few days. 
> > > > 
> > > > It can be done with a spectrophotometer, xrite profiler, colorburst, excel, and createICC-RGB. The createICC profiles are used as input profiles in ColorBurst in replace of AdobeRGB. Make sure you use Epson's dithering patterns with colorburst. Also make sure that you build your K ramp in Xrite-profiler as a straight line from top to bottom. 
> > > > 
> > > > Happy banging-your-head-against-the-wall. :-)
> > > > 
> > > > Walker
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > On Apr 15, 2010, at 2:50 PM, tboleyyh wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "CelluloidPhotography" <eric_edmondson@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks for the info Tyler! Do you suggest something like this for the Monaco settings:
> > > > > > http://celluloid.smugmug.com/Other/site-files/7765228_G2J6H#837683073_WRLXX-A-LB
> > > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > yes, it does bug me though that Monaco has no real 100% top to bottom GCR setting. I do pretty much what this shows. Alternatively, if you purchased GPS with StudioPrint, it makes the most perfect neutral axis CMYK profiles I have ever seen. It does have other difficulties, the main being perceptual conversions are far too light, and unless you have the newest version, black point compensation is not available for relative color metric conversions in RIP on the fly, which would be best for this purpose and solve lightness problems. So relcol BPC conversions have to be pre done in Photoshop.
> > > > > If you want to try that, use the highest GCR settings again for this...
> > > > > 
> > > > > > And just out of curiosity, what might a more complicated setup entail? 
> > > > > 
> > > > > more complication, therefore novel length posts, gigantor counsultation fees, death panels, etc etc... sorry couldn't resist.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Well, without going crazy... tuned profiles, with which Walker has experience and I do not, in Monaco. Environments most specifically set up for this, rather than color.. meaning emphasis on light inks, heavy CMY limiting restricted to expected hue variation requirements, so swings in those channels are large rather than minute, and more easily controlled (you will be surprised though, how much C and M it takes to make neutral with Epson blacks).. Heavy total ink limiting since gamut is not expected to be large, which the profilers love and will return more accurate profiles... play with the neutral axis options in Monaco (paper white, etc..) to see what looks best..
> > > > > 
> > > > > There's more, but in terms of a color managed approach in StudioPrint, that's what comes to mind. Walker has done a lot with this too, his fees may be more competative, actually we'll probably collude...
> > > > > Tyler
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Walker Blackwell
> > > > 802.821.4451
> > > > www.walkerblackwell.com
> > > > aim: greendirtblues
> > > > wblackwell@
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > Walker Blackwell
> > 802.821.4451
> > www.walkerblackwell.com
> > aim: greendirtblues
> > wblackwell@...
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> 
> 

Walker Blackwell
802.821.4451
www.walkerblackwell.com
aim: greendirtblues
wblackwell@googlewave.com



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