Yamaha DTXpress/DTXplorer/DTXtreme

Hi,
I'm seriously thinking in buying a dtx-express drumkit soon.
I played and tested one in a shop recently, and it looks excellent.
I also tested a roland kit,and i think the dtx gives a better feel.
(in my opinion)
Can anyone give tips about the durability of the dtx, i'm a teacher 
so i was thinking in using this for permament lessons and practice.

Is it a good and reliable drumkit in the long run? I mean it can 
sound good the first year, but does anyone here have it more than 5 
years, and how does it work? Do the pads still have the same 
feel,etc..or any problems with the sound module!

Also i want to comment on the bassdrum pedal of all these electronic 
kits, i think the basspedal is a bit fragile and moves around a lot 
(unless i put a really thick carpet,or try to adjust it not to move).
Anyone having a solution for this, im one of those drummers that 
lifts the whole leg and my pedal gets a big amount of pressure.
The acoustic kits can stand this because of the weight of the 
bassdrum.
Ok,Nice hearing reply from you all.
daniel
http://www.drumrhythms.com

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "daniel peralta" <batepercu@h...> 
wrote:
> Hi,
> I'm seriously thinking in buying a dtx-express drumkit soon.
> I played and tested one in a shop recently, and it looks excellent.
> I also tested a roland kit,and i think the dtx gives a better feel.
> (in my opinion)
> Can anyone give tips about the durability of the dtx, i'm a teacher 
> so i was thinking in using this for permament lessons and practice.
> 
> Is it a good and reliable drumkit in the long run? I mean it can 
> sound good the first year, but does anyone here have it more than 5 
> years, and how does it work? Do the pads still have the same 
> feel,etc..or any problems with the sound module!
> 
> Also i want to comment on the bassdrum pedal of all these 
electronic 
> kits, i think the basspedal is a bit fragile and moves around a lot 
> (unless i put a really thick carpet,or try to adjust it not to 
move).
> Anyone having a solution for this, im one of those drummers that 
> lifts the whole leg and my pedal gets a big amount of pressure.
> The acoustic kits can stand this because of the weight of the 
> bassdrum.

Hi Daniel,

I checked out the site. Fantastic. A great asset. I hope a lot of 
people reply to your question. One man's perspective is that the 
DTXpress (and to be fair, the Roland V-Club) is as durable a learning 
tool as you can get. Just check out the sitting duck in your local 
Guitar Center, which gets an inordinate amount of abuse and, as the 
saying goes, keeps right on ticking. Any poor sound is usually 
attributable to programming or monitoring rather than any defect in 
the kit itself. I've had a DTXpress module in my arsenal for four 
years, and it's never skipped a beat. Once you get it attached to a 
rack, nothing's going to happen to it while you play. Like any piece 
of electronics, it might be heir to an incidental problem here and 
there, like a power supply on the fritz, a worn battery (which takes 
a long time), or a software bug (the DTXpress had at least one when 
shipped), but by and large, you won't find a more trouble-free 
system. Many DTXv2.0 systems, which predate the DTXpress and resemble 
it, are still in use after five years and fetching cash on ebay.  

The gum-rubber pads are inherently stolid. Yamaha makes a small pitch 
for replacing them when the signal gets attenuated, and no apparent 
cause other than age presents itself, but I've never heard of anyone 
ever wearing out one of those things on the outside from playing. 
Yamaha's traditional wedge cymbal was more prone to damage, 
relatively at least. Once in a while some abusive heavy hitter would 
find a crack, but this remote possibility in no way constitutes a 
reason not to buy. Sometimes piezos go south, and wires work 
themselves loose internally, but not often and not prohibitively. 
Piezos cost next to nothing at radio shack. 

What you lose with the DTXpress as a learning tool is the art of 
tuning, a certain feel, and a certain geographical sense, but, to my 
mind, a little parallel instruction is enough to reduce any 
incompatibility. Considering the alternative surfaces that I had for 
practice as a kid in the early 1960s, the DTXpress rubber pads are a 
gift from heaven. And not much is worse than the noise of a novice 
drummer fighting with rudiments on a loud acoustic snare. The ability 
to maintain velocity and keep the sound low will probably keep many 
teachers from an early grave. 

I absolutely loathed the kick drum tower that came with my early 
incarnation of the DTXpress, but not because it moved. As I recall, 
the velcro worked fairly well for me on a carpet, and I have a heavy 
foot. I've never tried the apparently superior new one; maybe someone 
can give you an update. You realize that the DTXpress doesn't come 
with a pedal; you have to use your own. If your pedal has spikes 
and/or velcro, you should be okay. I use an Axis pedal and sometimes 
a Yamaha pedal with my Drum Tech pad; neither of them migrates.

Ed

Daniel

My DTX was a floor sample at the local music store for some time so it has
certainly been abused. The brain is good as new and I needed to fix a
problem with an early model kick pad. The new kick pads are quite good I
hear. the kick pad has screw-out spikes that I have had good luck with, even
with thin carpet, so the one you've tried may just need adjustment. Anything
you hit with a stick will break someday, but the Yamaha stuff seems durable.

I think you will like the drums.

Creighton

-----Original Message-----
From: daniel peralta [mailto:batepercu@...]
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 9:58 AM
To: DTXpress@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DTXpress] Comparison: electronic vs. acoustic kit (need some
dtx user feedback)


Hi,
I'm seriously thinking in buying a dtx-express drumkit soon.
I played and tested one in a shop recently, and it looks excellent.
I also tested a roland kit,and i think the dtx gives a better feel.
(in my opinion)
Can anyone give tips about the durability of the dtx, i'm a teacher
so i was thinking in using this for permament lessons and practice.

Is it a good and reliable drumkit in the long run? I mean it can
sound good the first year, but does anyone here have it more than 5
years, and how does it work? Do the pads still have the same
feel,etc..or any problems with the sound module!

Also i want to comment on the bassdrum pedal of all these electronic
kits, i think the basspedal is a bit fragile and moves around a lot
(unless i put a really thick carpet,or try to adjust it not to move).
Anyone having a solution for this, im one of those drummers that
lifts the whole leg and my pedal gets a big amount of pressure.
The acoustic kits can stand this because of the weight of the
bassdrum.
Ok,Nice hearing reply from you all.
daniel
http://www.drumrhythms.com






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Hi people,
Me again.
Ok,u got me convinced, i also admit i have a special love for the 
dtx, it looks so nice (the colors and evrythingh).
Any tips were to buy the dtx online for the best price and with 
reliable international worldwide shipping? 
I supose it comes in a big sets of boxes or not??Any details on the 
zise!And what it contains?Cables,etc..

Also, does anyone know what really makes the sound in the pad (i know 
it has a trigger that goes to the sound module), but what does the 
pad have that triggers the sound, is it a thin metal layer, or wires 
attached in the plastic???

Bye,
Dan
www.drumrhythms.com




--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Call Lt. Mike Nicora" 
<portable75@e...> wrote:
> Daniel,
> 
> My name is Mike and I just bough a DTXpress II about 2 weeks ago. 
So far I
> can say the following....
> 
> 1. The sounds are just awesome.
> 2. custom sets are very easy to make..made several custom sounding 
sets for
> Tower of Power...old stuff and new stuff.
> 3. When I get going I too "bounce my right foot on the bass. I am 
on a small
> rug and it does not move at all as well as the hi hat.
> 4. The base pad setup on the II is very heavy and not fragile at 
all (to
> me).
> 5. I used to take and give lessons on a remo pad set....so I'm used 
to the
> small area to hit, but big difference in feel.
> 6. Price....got mine new on e-bay for under $900 in the factory box.
> 
> The one problem I can see in the future limited expansion of more 
pads and
> cymbals...think with the right stuff 2 more can be added.
> 
> Good luck and happy drum' in
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: daniel peralta [mailto:batepercu@h...]
>   Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 9:58 AM
>   To: DTXpress@yahoogroups.com
>   Subject: [DTXpress] Comparison: electronic vs. acoustic kit (need 
some dtx
> user feedback)
> 
> 
>   Hi,
>   I'm seriously thinking in buying a dtx-express drumkit soon.
>   I played and tested one in a shop recently, and it looks 
excellent.
>   I also tested a roland kit,and i think the dtx gives a better 
feel.
>   (in my opinion)
>   Can anyone give tips about the durability of the dtx, i'm a 
teacher
>   so i was thinking in using this for permament lessons and 
practice.
> 
>   Is it a good and reliable drumkit in the long run? I mean it can
>   sound good the first year, but does anyone here have it more than 
5
>   years, and how does it work? Do the pads still have the same
>   feel,etc..or any problems with the sound module!
> 
>   Also i want to comment on the bassdrum pedal of all these 
electronic
>   kits, i think the basspedal is a bit fragile and moves around a 
lot
>   (unless i put a really thick carpet,or try to adjust it not to 
move).
>   Anyone having a solution for this, im one of those drummers that
>   lifts the whole leg and my pedal gets a big amount of pressure.
>   The acoustic kits can stand this because of the weight of the
>   bassdrum.
>   Ok,Nice hearing reply from you all.
>   daniel
>   http://www.drumrhythms.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   Community email addresses:
>     Post message: DTXpress@yahoogroups.com
>     Subscribe:    DTXpress-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>     Unsubscribe:  DTXpress-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>     List owner:   DTXpress-owner@yahoogroups.com
> 
>   Shortcut URL to this page:
>     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DTXpress
> 
>   Alternate DTXpress site:
>     http://www.dtxpressions.com
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
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> 
>     a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
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--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "daniel peralta" <batepercu@h...> 
wrote:
> Hi people,
> Me again.
> Ok,u got me convinced, i also admit i have a special love for the 
> dtx, it looks so nice (the colors and evrythingh).
> Any tips were to buy the dtx online for the best price and with 
> reliable international worldwide shipping? 
> I supose it comes in a big sets of boxes or not??Any details on the 
> zise!And what it contains?Cables,etc..
> 
> Also, does anyone know what really makes the sound in the pad (i 
know 
> it has a trigger that goes to the sound module), but what does the 
> pad have that triggers the sound, is it a thin metal layer, or 
wires 
> attached in the plastic???

Dan,

Go to the photos section of this site and take a look at OGD's 
pictures of the "insides" of various components. You can see closeups 
of the circuit boards, the piezos on the discs, the connecting wires, 
and the switches.

Ed

Daniel,

Welcome. Go to the photo section under "Inside the dtx". I have taken apart
and photographed most of the pads and module for an inside view of the bits
and pieces.
The main sound comes from a piezo. The rim sound comes from the ribbon
switch. They are both visible in the photos.

OGD

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	daniel peralta [SMTP:batepercu@...]
> Sent:	Friday, December 19, 2003 11:18 AM
> To:	DTXpress@yahoogroups.com
> Subject:	[DTXpress] Re: Comparison: electronic vs. acoustic kit (need
> some dtx user feedback)
> 
> Hi people,
> Me again.
> Ok,u got me convinced, i also admit i have a special love for the 
> dtx, it looks so nice (the colors and evrythingh).
> Any tips were to buy the dtx online for the best price and with 
> reliable international worldwide shipping? 
> I supose it comes in a big sets of boxes or not??Any details on the 
> zise!And what it contains?Cables,etc..
> 
> Also, does anyone know what really makes the sound in the pad (i know 
> it has a trigger that goes to the sound module), but what does the 
> pad have that triggers the sound, is it a thin metal layer, or wires 
> attached in the plastic???
> 
> Bye,
> Dan
> www.drumrhythms.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Call Lt. Mike Nicora" 
> <portable75@e...> wrote:
> > Daniel,
> > 
> > My name is Mike and I just bough a DTXpress II about 2 weeks ago. 
> So far I
> > can say the following....
> > 
> > 1. The sounds are just awesome.
> > 2. custom sets are very easy to make..made several custom sounding 
> sets for
> > Tower of Power...old stuff and new stuff.
> > 3. When I get going I too "bounce my right foot on the bass. I am 
> on a small
> > rug and it does not move at all as well as the hi hat.
> > 4. The base pad setup on the II is very heavy and not fragile at 
> all (to
> > me).
> > 5. I used to take and give lessons on a remo pad set....so I'm used 
> to the
> > small area to hit, but big difference in feel.
> > 6. Price....got mine new on e-bay for under $900 in the factory box.
> > 
> > The one problem I can see in the future limited expansion of more 
> pads and
> > cymbals...think with the right stuff 2 more can be added.
> > 
> > Good luck and happy drum' in
> >    -----Original Message-----
> >    From: daniel peralta [mailto:batepercu@h...]
> >    Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 9:58 AM
> >    To: DTXpress@yahoogroups.com
> >    Subject: [DTXpress] Comparison: electronic vs. acoustic kit (need 
> some dtx
> > user feedback)
> > 
> > 
> >    Hi,
> >    I'm seriously thinking in buying a dtx-express drumkit soon.
> >    I played and tested one in a shop recently, and it looks 
> excellent.
> >    I also tested a roland kit,and i think the dtx gives a better 
> feel.
> >    (in my opinion)
> >    Can anyone give tips about the durability of the dtx, i'm a 
> teacher
> >    so i was thinking in using this for permament lessons and 
> practice.
> > 
> >    Is it a good and reliable drumkit in the long run? I mean it can
> >    sound good the first year, but does anyone here have it more than 
> 5
> >    years, and how does it work? Do the pads still have the same
> >    feel,etc..or any problems with the sound module!
> > 
> >    Also i want to comment on the bassdrum pedal of all these 
> electronic
> >    kits, i think the basspedal is a bit fragile and moves around a 
> lot
> >    (unless i put a really thick carpet,or try to adjust it not to 
> move).
> >    Anyone having a solution for this, im one of those drummers that
> >    lifts the whole leg and my pedal gets a big amount of pressure.
> >    The acoustic kits can stand this because of the weight of the
> >    bassdrum.
> >    Ok,Nice hearing reply from you all.
> >    daniel
> >    <http://www.drumrhythms.com>
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >    Community email addresses:
> >      Post message: DTXpress@yahoogroups.com
> >      Subscribe:     DTXpress-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >      Unsubscribe:   DTXpress-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >      List owner:    DTXpress-owner@yahoogroups.com
> > 
> >    Shortcut URL to this page:
> >      <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DTXpress>
> > 
> >    Alternate DTXpress site:
> >      <http://www.dtxpressions.com>
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------
> > --
> >    Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> >      a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> >      <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DTXpress/>
> > 
> >      b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >      DTXpress-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > 
> >      c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of 
> Service.
> > 
> > 
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Daniel:
Here's my take. I think you'll find the DTX to be well worth the 
money. As for applications, you'll find it very useful for practice, 
and in some situations, more than acceptable for live performance. 
However, I personally feel you would be doing your students an 
injustice teaching them on an electronic kit of any kind. Many 
students do no have a kit at home, and the only time they get to 
spend with a 'real' set of drums is that precious half hour every 
Wednesday night. There are too many subtleties that one most learn on 
an acoustic kit that just can not be done on the DTX.
Get one for yourself. You'll have a ball with it. But continue to 
teach your students on good old fashioned acoustic drums.
My opinion.
Stephen

Yes, you are right there.
It's a must to have the kids play on a real drum to get the feel of 
it. The idea was to have an extra drum in the room for the electronic 
feel as well, i think few students get to play a e-drum kit.
I also wanted some opinions on how durable it really was and to know 
if it can endure hard long hours of sticking all around the pads for 
ex. for teaching day in day out!!
Ok,bye.
dan
www.drumrhythms.com

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "brown8700" <brown8700@a...> wrote:
> Daniel:
> Here's my take. I think you'll find the DTX to be well worth the 
> money. As for applications, you'll find it very useful for 
practice, 
> and in some situations, more than acceptable for live performance. 
> However, I personally feel you would be doing your students an 
> injustice teaching them on an electronic kit of any kind. Many 
> students do no have a kit at home, and the only time they get to 
> spend with a 'real' set of drums is that precious half hour every 
> Wednesday night. There are too many subtleties that one most learn 
on 

> an acoustic kit that just can not be done on the DTX.
> Get one for yourself. You'll have a ball with it. But continue to 
> teach your students on good old fashioned acoustic drums.
> My opinion.
> Stephen

Daniel:
The DTX will endure ant amount of torture you could inflict on it 
during teaching sessions. As ED pointed out in an earlier response, 
the cymbal wedges are the most fragile, but I can't imagine that 
would not hold up in your application.
I did crack a wedge, but that was in a 'live' situation playing with 
a rock band. Even after the crack appeared, the cymbal continued to 
function normally.

Stephen

daniel peralta said:
> Yes, you are right there.
> It's a must to have the kids play on a real drum to get the feel of
> it. [SNIP]

Hmm again, this seems to go counter to my thought process... If you sign
up to learn to play lead guitar, they don't start you on an acoustic so
you get the "feel" of it. They start you with a guitar & amp. Same for
Bass guitar, they don't start you on a stand up acosutic bass with a bow.

This train of thought seems to imply that "edrums" are not "real" drums
and are some form of "lessor" stand-in for people who cannot use the
"real" thing. Is this the general consensus? That is, if various
obsticles (noise, storage space, etc.) were removed, we'd all have
acoustic sets?

Vern

-- 
Vern Graner CNE/CNA/SSE    | "If the network is down, then you're
Senior Systems Engineer    | obviously incompetent so why are we
Texas Information Services | paying you? Of course, if the network
http://www.txis.com        | is up, then we obviously don't need
Austin Office 512 328-8947 | you, so why are we paying you?" VLG

I would agree with your thoughts...I am new to the list, but have to say I would not buy a "real set" for many reasons other than listed...one of the things that kept me from learning drums for years was the fact that everybody can hear how much you suck...when I first started bass and guitar, I could keep the amp turned down, or use headphones...
with drums...yes there is a feel issue, there is always a trade off...like my Kramer Barretta is not my Martin, a DTXPress is not a Recording custom...they are different tools...and do different jobs with strengths and weaknesses...
a drill is not always better than a screwdriverl...

non Graner <vern@...> wrote:
daniel peralta said:
> Yes, you are right there.
> It's a must to have the kids play on a real drum to get the feel of
> it. [SNIP]

Hmm again, this seems to go counter to my thought process... If you sign
up to learn to play lead guitar, they don't start you on an acoustic so
you get the "feel" of it. They start you with a guitar & amp. Same for
Bass guitar, they don't start you on a stand up acosutic bass with a bow.

This train of thought seems to imply that "edrums" are not "real" drums
and are some form of "lessor" stand-in for people who cannot use the
"real" thing. Is this the general consensus? That is, if various
obsticles (noise, storage space, etc.) were removed, we'd all have
acoustic sets?

Vern

-- 
Vern Graner CNE/CNA/SSE    | "If the network is down, then you're
Senior Systems Engineer    | obviously incompetent so why are we
Texas Information Services | paying you? Of course, if the network
http://www.txis.com        | is up, then we obviously don't need
Austin Office 512 328-8947 | you, so why are we paying you?" VLG






Community email addresses:
  Post message: DTXpress@yahoogroups.com
  Subscribe:    DTXpress-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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Alternate DTXpress site:
  http://www.dtxpressions.com 



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If you sign
> up to learn to play lead guitar, they don't start you on an 
acoustic so
> you get the "feel" of it. They start you with a guitar & amp. Same 
for
> Bass guitar, they don't start you on a stand up acosutic bass with 
a bow.
> 
> This train of thought seems to imply that "edrums" are not "real" 
drums
> and are some form of "lessor" stand-in for people who cannot use the
> "real" thing. Is this the general consensus? That is, if various
> obsticles (noise, storage space, etc.) were removed, we'd all have
> acoustic sets?
> 
> Vern
> 
 
E-drums and acoustic drums are as different as electric or acoustic 
guitar. You don't have to learn on one or the other first. It's just 
a personal preference.(my opinion)
G

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Vernon Graner" <vern@t...> wrote:
> This train of thought seems to imply that "edrums" are not "real" 
drums
> and are some form of "lessor" stand-in for people who cannot use the
> "real" thing. Is this the general consensus? That is, if various
> obsticles (noise, storage space, etc.) were removed, we'd all have
> acoustic sets?

Vern raises an interesting point. On the one hand, electronic and 
acoustic "drums" have a family resemblance that makes the latter a 
convenient double for the former in many situations. And we often 
treat electronic drumkits as more versatile versions of acoustic ones
--that is, embodying hundreds of sonic possibilities as opposed to 
just a few--with certain tradeoffs. On the other hand, electronics 
are instruments in their own right, with their own quirks and 
strengths (their weaknesses involve their inability to duplicate the 
characteristics of acoustics or the electronic capabilities of 
computer programs or MIDI keyboards). 

To me, if someone wants to learn traditional drums, electronic drums 
are not a perfect substitute. But they are a viable substitute under 
certain conditions--that is, if acoustics are not convenient, 
affordable, etc. In that case, as I said before, parallel instruction 
whenever possible can help to fill in the gaps and guard against the 
development of a lopsided technique. I do think that the relationship 
between electronics and acoustics, however, is natural enough to 
justify teaching them in tandem without doing any injustice to 
either. The mere fact that someone has learned to play an acoustic 
snare drum in the school band does not automatically qualify him/her 
to play timpani in the philharmonic, but it does provide a leg up on 
doing so. Anyone who's learned to play acoustic drums will be able to 
do something credible on electronics (aside from the electronics 
learning curve) immediately. By the same token, someone who's played 
only on a gum-rubber kit will be able to transfer some of their 
skills to an acoustic, though probably with a little more practice. 
I'd always recommend acoustic, or parallel, instruction first. In 
this day and age, you really can't claim to be a percussionist if you 
have no experience on at least something that answers to a 
traditional drum. Despite how far electronics have come, claiming to 
be a drummer with only an electonics background is a little like 
claiming to be a cook with only a knowledge of garnishes. No? 
Differing views are more than welcome.

Ed

Wow. Now we're getting a little philosophical here. So let's say you
learned to play the acoustic guitar, and spend your whole life playing
without ever touching an electric. Aren't you still a 'guitarist'? As
a former *classical* musician, as well as guitarist, I'd have to say
no. Mastering your instrument means exactly what it means: mastering
the instrument-in all of its forms. 

But aren't there some forms of edrums out there that cross the line
between traditional and electronic? The ones with real heads and
shells that I've seen out there on the web seem to be able to give
almost the exact same physical sensation as playing a real drum. I
suspect that line will be blurred more as technology advances. As for
the DTX, you're hitting 8" rubber pads. It may sound as realistic as
the best kit out there, but you're still just hitting rubber pads.
They will never *feel* the same as an acoustic kit, but they're also
another form of drum that needs to be explored for you to become a
master of your craft.

As far as my 2 cents goes, edrums are indeed 'real' drums. 

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "emf" <liberatusvirus@y...> wrote:

> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Vernon Graner" <vern@t...> wrote:
> > This train of thought seems to imply that "edrums" are not "real" 
> drums
> > and are some form of "lessor" stand-in for people who cannot use the
> > "real" thing. Is this the general consensus? That is, if various
> > obsticles (noise, storage space, etc.) were removed, we'd all have
> > acoustic sets?
> 
> Vern raises an interesting point. On the one hand, electronic and 
> acoustic "drums" have a family resemblance that makes the latter a 
> convenient double for the former in many situations. And we often 
> treat electronic drumkits as more versatile versions of acoustic ones
> --that is, embodying hundreds of sonic possibilities as opposed to 
> just a few--with certain tradeoffs. On the other hand, electronics 
> are instruments in their own right, with their own quirks and 
> strengths (their weaknesses involve their inability to duplicate the 
> characteristics of acoustics or the electronic capabilities of 
> computer programs or MIDI keyboards). 
> 
> To me, if someone wants to learn traditional drums, electronic drums 
> are not a perfect substitute. But they are a viable substitute under 
> certain conditions--that is, if acoustics are not convenient, 
> affordable, etc. In that case, as I said before, parallel instruction 
> whenever possible can help to fill in the gaps and guard against the 
> development of a lopsided technique. I do think that the relationship 
> between electronics and acoustics, however, is natural enough to 
> justify teaching them in tandem without doing any injustice to 
> either. The mere fact that someone has learned to play an acoustic 
> snare drum in the school band does not automatically qualify him/her 
> to play timpani in the philharmonic, but it does provide a leg up on 
> doing so. Anyone who's learned to play acoustic drums will be able to 
> do something credible on electronics (aside from the electronics 
> learning curve) immediately. By the same token, someone who's played 
> only on a gum-rubber kit will be able to transfer some of their 
> skills to an acoustic, though probably with a little more practice. 
> I'd always recommend acoustic, or parallel, instruction first. In 
> this day and age, you really can't claim to be a percussionist if you 
> have no experience on at least something that answers to a 
> traditional drum. Despite how far electronics have come, claiming to 
> be a drummer with only an electonics background is a little like 
> claiming to be a cook with only a knowledge of garnishes. No? 
> Differing views are more than welcome.
> 
> Ed

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <jayluv6@y...> wrote:
> Wow. Now we're getting a little philosophical here. So let's say you
> learned to play the acoustic guitar, and spend your whole life 
playing
> without ever touching an electric. Aren't you still a 'guitarist'? 
As
> a former *classical* musician, as well as guitarist, I'd have to say
> no. Mastering your instrument means exactly what it means: mastering
> the instrument-in all of its forms. 
> 
> But aren't there some forms of edrums out there that cross the line
> between traditional and electronic? The ones with real heads and
> shells that I've seen out there on the web seem to be able to give
> almost the exact same physical sensation as playing a real drum. I
> suspect that line will be blurred more as technology advances. As 
for
> the DTX, you're hitting 8" rubber pads. It may sound as realistic as
> the best kit out there, but you're still just hitting rubber pads.
> They will never *feel* the same as an acoustic kit, but they're also
> another form of drum that needs to be explored for you to become a
> master of your craft.
> 
> As far as my 2 cents goes, edrums are indeed 'real' drums. 

That's pretty much how I see it, too. But I would add one thing: E-
drums that approximate, or share, the feel and geography of acoustic 
drums still depend on electronics for their sounds. As good as the 
sounds have become over the years, they still do not come close to 
the richness and nuance of genuine acoustics to the extent that they 
invite the comparison. As impressive as my ddrum module is in that 
respect, it falls far short of the acoustics that it samples. The 
deficiency is not just sonic either; it affects what you can do with 
sticks when you strike the pad. Beyond a certain point (which changes 
with every module), you can't control what the sticks are able to 
deliver, and that fact impacts technique. You can coax much more from 
sticks on acoustic drums than you can on electronic drums. Some of 
the deficiency is due to bits and sampling rates, but some of it is 
also due to design. Drums are complex instruments, not susceptible to 
naked mathematical modeling in the way that keyboards are. But drum 
modules are, arguably, by-products of the keyboard revolution. They 
have not yet received the attention that they deserve in their own 
rights--for a lot of reasons, many of them boiling down to economics. 

That said, as Jay and others maintain, electronic instruments are 
still instruments in themselves, worthy of respect and serious use. 
They can do things that acoustic drums cannot even approach, both 
formally and materially. At this point, however, they fall under a 
larger envelope of percussive possibilities rather than being an 
independent, or transcendent, realm of their own. The shadow of 
acoustics still falls heavily over them (how many of us program our e-
drums to sound like our favorite acoustic kits? how many of us set 
them up exactly like acoustic drums?), and their promise as purely 
digital instruments remains yet to be fulfilled--whatever that may 
turn out to be; many of the possibilities of extracting subtlety and 
finesse from them are untapped. 

The future may well forget that any such comments were ever made. 
Maybe one day, when wood has become scarce and digital technology has 
progressed to the nth degree, electronic drumming will rule the world 
and analog percussion of all kinds will be subsumed under it, if it 
even exists in anyone's memory. Right now, however, if your goal is 
to be a master drummer (whatever that is), electronic drumming will 
only take you so far--which is not to say that where it does take you 
doesn't count for much. It counts for quite a lot.

Vern:
My contention is this; Most students (kids) are not going to start 
out their drumming at home on an e-kit. When they sign up for band in 
middle school, they won't be playing an e-snare. It's unlikely the 
pep band has an e-kit or that the marching band has e-quads.
So, unless the student to which you are giving lessons has plans on 
acquiring an e-kit, and doesn't plan on playing in school bands, 
you're doing that student a disservice. Of course, this is only my 
opinion, and certainly everyone has the right to their own.
Stephen

The "real" VS "E" debate is of immediate import to me. It seems like a
number of us have used electronic drums as a way to return to drumming after
some time away. My precious Ludwigs were stolen when I was in my early 20s
and I was never able to replace them for all the usual reasons. Not playing
was like having an itch these many years which I scratched by purchasing my
DTXpress. After a year of playing in isolation, I have recently had the
opportunity to play with some folks on an acoustic set.

The acoustics felt awful. It must be like being a guitarist and having
someone move the strings a 1/4 inch further apart- you know where everything
is, but it is hard to reach and requires a lot of thought. The whole thing
spasticated (neologism) me. I switched to my drums and was immediately
musical again.

I am sure with a fair amount of practice I could get up to speed on the
acoustics, but I would be giving up a lot of sonic flexibility. I truly
believe that we are working with two very different instruments- much like
the difference between a clarinet and a saxophone. I am told that it is much
easier to move from A's to E's than the other way around. I think this is
true. I would think that to be an educated drummer one must work on both.
E's can only evolve and I expect they will be used increasingly- much like
keyboards have supplanted pianos. A young drummer should be comfortable on
both.

-----Original Message-----
From: Vernon Graner [mailto:vern@...]
Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 2:43 PM
To: DTXpress@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DTXpress] Are "edrums", "real" drums? (was: Comparison:
electronic vs. acoustic kit


daniel peralta said:
> Yes, you are right there.
> It's a must to have the kids play on a real drum to get the feel of
> it. [SNIP]

Hmm again, this seems to go counter to my thought process... If you sign
up to learn to play lead guitar, they don't start you on an acoustic so
you get the "feel" of it. They start you with a guitar & amp. Same for
Bass guitar, they don't start you on a stand up acosutic bass with a bow.

This train of thought seems to imply that "edrums" are not "real" drums
and are some form of "lessor" stand-in for people who cannot use the
"real" thing. Is this the general consensus? That is, if various
obsticles (noise, storage space, etc.) were removed, we'd all have
acoustic sets?

Vern

--
Vern Graner CNE/CNA/SSE    | "If the network is down, then you're
Senior Systems Engineer    | obviously incompetent so why are we
Texas Information Services | paying you? Of course, if the network
http://www.txis.com        | is up, then we obviously don't need
Austin Office 512 328-8947 | you, so why are we paying you?" VLG





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My original position in this debate was not questioning whether e-
drums are 'real' drums or something else. Of course they are real 
drums. I can see them, feel them, hit them and hear them. They're 
real fer cryin' out loud. However, here's a question for you. My 
Yamaha keyboard has drums sounds, and pianos are considered a 
percussion instrument. Is my Yamaha DX70 a real drum? Think about it.

My original position in answer to the question of whether students 
should be taught on an e-kit? Real drums or not, I say no.*


*Unless they have an e-kit at home, have expressed a desire to learn 
on an e-kit, and/or do not plan on ever playing acoustic drums.

Stephen

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "brown8700" <brown8700@a...> wrote:
> My original position in this debate was not questioning whether e-
> drums are 'real' drums or something else. Of course they are real 
> drums. I can see them, feel them, hit them and hear them. They're 
> real fer cryin' out loud. However, here's a question for you. My 
> Yamaha keyboard has drums sounds, and pianos are considered a 
> percussion instrument. Is my Yamaha DX70 a real drum? Think about 
it.
> 

Stephen,  that is an interesting point, but if I remember correctly 
in elementary school mucis class the piano was classified as 
a 'percussive' instrument, because, ultimately, the strings were hit 
by a hammer that was set in motion by the pressing of a key.  This is 
certainly analogous to sticks/hands and drums heads.

The real question, IMO, is really, what isn't a drum?  

I can make music from a pot lid and a license plate (anyone who's 
seen STOMP live knows what is possible) does that not qualify them as 
drums?  Personally, I beat on just about everything with my hands, 
but oly just recently put together an e-drum kit to learn how to 
formally 'play drums.'  In no way though, do I call myself 
a 'drummer,' not because of the e-drums, but because of my lack of 
experience in an ensemble setting.

I don't disagree in any way that playing e-drums is different than 
acoustic drums, but then again, playing the garbage can is different 
as well.  The distinction is semantic, at best.

Learning to manipulate sticks and pedals to produce the sounds you 
want to produce is truly the essence of drumming, not the things that 
you hit with them.  A swiss triplet played with hands on a djembe or 
with sticks on an acoustic snare is still a swiss triplet (of which, 
mine need lots of work).

I'm a former bassist and I'm completely lost playing my friend's 
Fender Jazz as opposed to my Rickenbacker: less musical, less 
dextrous.  No one would argue that I can't play the bass, though, 
just that I blow chunks on a Fender Jazz.  I'm sure that if I sat on 
someone's acoustic kit, the experience would be similar.   

What this amounts to is that there are a number of skills under the 
heading of 'drumming' that are available for study.  We all have 
strengths and weaknesses, some of which are more portable than 
others.  But, to make the distinction that one is true and the others 
facsimilies is, IMO, intellectually dishonest.

Question:  Lionel Hampton -- Drummer?
           Future Man -- Drummer?
           
In both cases, I think yes.  Of differing skills sets and quality?  
Absolutely.

Ta,

Joe:
I am not, repeat, NOT, saying that e-drums are not drums. (does a 
triple-negative statement make a positive statement?)
Lionel Hampton a drummer? You bet! Had you ever seen him play a kit? 
He wasn't just a mallet man. I'm proud to say that Mr. Hampton hailed 
from my hometown of Louisville, KY.
Future Man a drummer? I don't know, I guess. He strikes things in a 
rythmic-percussive manner that make a drum-like sound. And, I'm proud 
to say that Bela Fleck hails from my home state of Kentucky. Not sure 
about Future Man, though.
Now, the next question is "would a Linn-Drum programmer be considered 
a drummer?"
Stephen

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "brown8700" <brown8700@a...> wrote:
> Joe:
> I am not, repeat, NOT, saying that e-drums are not drums. (does a 
> triple-negative statement make a positive statement?)
> Lionel Hampton a drummer? You bet! Had you ever seen him play a 
kit? 
> He wasn't just a mallet man. I'm proud to say that Mr. Hampton 
hailed 
> from my hometown of Louisville, KY.
> Future Man a drummer? I don't know, I guess. He strikes things in a 
> rythmic-percussive manner that make a drum-like sound. And, I'm 
proud 
> to say that Bela Fleck hails from my home state of Kentucky. Not 
sure 
> about Future Man, though.
> Now, the next question is "would a Linn-Drum programmer be 
considered 
> a drummer?"

I thought this would heat up--in a good way--given the variables. But 
I think that everyone agrees that anything that's hit in a musical or 
purely percussive context qualifies as a "drum"--electronic drums 
qualify with distinction--unless the context dictates that the label 
be withheld for explanatory reasons: "What's Herschel playing at the 
back of the stage?  Is that a drum?  No, it's a garbage can." 
Electronic drums are not "real" drums only to the extent that they 
invite direct comparison with their acoustic counterparts: "Was 
someone playing Slingerlands on that cut?" "No, that was definitely a 
DTXpress programmed to sound like real Slingerlands." 

One empirical question is whether education on an e-kit is an 
adequate substitute for education on an a-kit. I don't think that 
anyone thinks that the two situations are a perfect match, though 
people may disagree about the extent of the mismatch, though both 
instruments are drums. 

Another empirical question, with defintite semantic overtones, is how 
does one qualify to be a "drummer." The easy, and often true, answer 
is by playing drums with some method to the madness. But in a context 
that intends to discriminate between abilities, or activities, the 
answer might not be so easy. Any definition runs the risk of 
arbitrariness. "Drummer" can be a relative title of honor. If you 
asked Buddy Rich whether Ringo is a drummer, he'd unequivocably 
say "no." But Buddy Rich might also say, "Look at that guy over there 
playing those copper pots. Now, there's a drummer." Skill in a 
percussive context also enters into someone's ascription of the term. 
Whether people agree in any given circumstance might boil down to 
whether they are "drummers" themselves, whether they are open-minded, 
etc. Buddy Rich might ultimately reserve his judgment: "But I'd like 
to see him behind a kit plaing with a big band before I give him my 
blessing," whereas we might say, "why bother? That guy has great 
hands." 

The Linn-drum programmer is not a "drummer" in the context of the 
DTXpress Group, in which members discuss drumming by using sticks 
ultimately to create sound. But in a wider framework, as someone who 
creates percussive accompaniment in a musical setting, the Linn 
technician certainly falls within the broad family of drummers, 
especially if he also knows how to play "real" drums and uses that 
knowledge to good effect in his programming.  

One thing to keep in mind is that language works best within 
circumscribed contexts that contain other less ambiguous cues. When 
words have to do all of the work themselves, they are subject to 
failure. (Vern reminded me once that when I want to make sure that 
what I say comes off as a joke, I should use an emoticon.) Words are 
not vehicles of absolute meaning. One person's/moment's "drummer" is 
another person's hack, beginner, or eccentric. Do we set up a 
committee to determine who the "real drummers" are? We get along 
quite well without one, I think.

Ed

Stephen

I hope you are not taking this discussion as an attack on you or your
feelings about drumming etc. I had hoped to start a discussion on the
*philosophy* of acoustic vs. electronic drum systems, and it appears I
*did*! :)

I think  some very interesting points have been, and are being made, on a
topic that I think can enhance all our perceptions about the craft we
enjoy. No one should feel obligated to defend a given position or attack
oposing viewpoints, though everyone is surely invited to share their
opinion. Hopefully we can all read and contribute to the thread while
giving more thought to the art of drumming and our chosen noisemakers.

:)

Vern

-- 
Vern Graner CNE/CNA/SSE    | "If the network is down, then you're
Senior Systems Engineer    | obviously incompetent so why are we
Texas Information Services | paying you? Of course, if the network
http://www.txis.com        | is up, then we obviously don't need
Austin Office 512 328-8947 | you, so why are we paying you?" VLG




brown8700 said:

> My original position in this debate was not questioning whether e-
> drums are 'real' drums or something else. Of course they are real
> drums. I can see them, feel them, hit them and hear them. They're
> real fer cryin' out loud. However, here's a question for you. My
> Yamaha keyboard has drums sounds, and pianos are considered a
> percussion instrument. Is my Yamaha DX70 a real drum? Think about it.
>
> My original position in answer to the question of whether students
> should be taught on an e-kit? Real drums or not, I say no.*
>
>
> *Unless they have an e-kit at home, have expressed a desire to learn
> on an e-kit, and/or do not plan on ever playing acoustic drums.
>
> Stephen
>
>
>
>
> Community email addresses:
>   Post message: DTXpress@yahoogroups.com
>   Subscribe:    DTXpress-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>   Unsubscribe:  DTXpress-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>   List owner:   DTXpress-owner@yahoogroups.com
>
> Shortcut URL to this page:
>   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DTXpress
>
> Alternate DTXpress site:
>   http://www.dtxpressions.com
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DTXpress/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  DTXpress-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
>  http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

hehe... Thanks to all of you! I'm sitting here grinning from ear to ear
reading through this thread. When I first posed the question, I mentioned
to a cow orker here that I was "trying to start a philosophical
discussion on the drummer mailing list". He laughed! <insert your
favorite dumb drummer joke here> :D

This is the type of discussion I *love* to participate in, especially
when others participate at such high levels! The idea that your direction
in pursuing an art form can be altered by exploring such ethereal topics
as "what is a drum/what is a drummer?" really keeps my interest up!

I think I've gotten some new insight from the opinions offered so far,
and I do see that my approach to edrums does appear to be in the
minority. I never thought of my edrums as a "Stand in" for my a-drums,
any more than I thought of my first keyboard as a stand-in for the piano
we had in the rehearsal hall.

I *always* thought of it as a _new_ instrument I was about to explore. It
could be some people might be inclined to dismiss the e-drums as "not
ready for prime time" when their a-drum skills cannot be used *exactly*
to produce the sounds they did with the a-drums.

I think that if you approach the e-drum kit with the mindset that it is a
new instrument and it will require learning in order to create acceptable
sound, you will be more successful. If you come in with the mind set that
it is an electronic version of an acoustic kit you'll probably be
disappointed and frustrated.

Vern

--
Vern Graner CNE/CNA/SSE    | "If the network is down, then you're
Senior Systems Engineer    | obviously incompetent so why are we
Texas Information Services | paying you? Of course, if the network
http://www.txis.com        | is up, then we obviously don't need
Austin Office 512 328-8947 | you, so why are we paying you?" VLG




emf said:

> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "brown8700" <brown8700@a...> wrote:
>> Joe:
>> I am not, repeat, NOT, saying that e-drums are not drums. (does a
>> triple-negative statement make a positive statement?)
>> Lionel Hampton a drummer? You bet! Had you ever seen him play a
> kit?
>> He wasn't just a mallet man. I'm proud to say that Mr. Hampton
> hailed
>> from my hometown of Louisville, KY.
>> Future Man a drummer? I don't know, I guess. He strikes things in a
>> rythmic-percussive manner that make a drum-like sound. And, I'm
> proud
>> to say that Bela Fleck hails from my home state of Kentucky. Not
> sure
>> about Future Man, though.
>> Now, the next question is "would a Linn-Drum programmer be
> considered
>> a drummer?"
>
> I thought this would heat up--in a good way--given the variables. But
> I think that everyone agrees that anything that's hit in a musical or
> purely percussive context qualifies as a "drum"--electronic drums
> qualify with distinction--unless the context dictates that the label
> be withheld for explanatory reasons: "What's Herschel playing at the
> back of the stage?  Is that a drum?  No, it's a garbage can."
> Electronic drums are not "real" drums only to the extent that they
> invite direct comparison with their acoustic counterparts: "Was
> someone playing Slingerlands on that cut?" "No, that was definitely a
> DTXpress programmed to sound like real Slingerlands."
>
> One empirical question is whether education on an e-kit is an
> adequate substitute for education on an a-kit. I don't think that
> anyone thinks that the two situations are a perfect match, though
> people may disagree about the extent of the mismatch, though both
> instruments are drums.
>
> Another empirical question, with defintite semantic overtones, is how
> does one qualify to be a "drummer." The easy, and often true, answer
> is by playing drums with some method to the madness. But in a context
> that intends to discriminate between abilities, or activities, the
> answer might not be so easy. Any definition runs the risk of
> arbitrariness. "Drummer" can be a relative title of honor. If you
> asked Buddy Rich whether Ringo is a drummer, he'd unequivocably
> say "no." But Buddy Rich might also say, "Look at that guy over there
> playing those copper pots. Now, there's a drummer." Skill in a
> percussive context also enters into someone's ascription of the term.
> Whether people agree in any given circumstance might boil down to
> whether they are "drummers" themselves, whether they are open-minded,
> etc. Buddy Rich might ultimately reserve his judgment: "But I'd like
> to see him behind a kit plaing with a big band before I give him my
> blessing," whereas we might say, "why bother? That guy has great
> hands."
>
> The Linn-drum programmer is not a "drummer" in the context of the
> DTXpress Group, in which members discuss drumming by using sticks
> ultimately to create sound. But in a wider framework, as someone who
> creates percussive accompaniment in a musical setting, the Linn
> technician certainly falls within the broad family of drummers,
> especially if he also knows how to play "real" drums and uses that
> knowledge to good effect in his programming.
>
> One thing to keep in mind is that language works best within
> circumscribed contexts that contain other less ambiguous cues. When
> words have to do all of the work themselves, they are subject to
> failure. (Vern reminded me once that when I want to make sure that
> what I say comes off as a joke, I should use an emoticon.) Words are
> not vehicles of absolute meaning. One person's/moment's "drummer" is
> another person's hack, beginner, or eccentric. Do we set up a
> committee to determine who the "real drummers" are? We get along
> quite well without one, I think.
>
> Ed
>
>
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>

For whatever reason, I felt compelled to add my 2 cents in here...

Having learned many, many years ago, the first thing the (high 
school) band director said was to get one of those (now) funny 
looking practice pads (the block of wood that is slanted, with a 
rubber pad on top) and learn to get a controlled rebound.  Now that 
I think of it, that's not too far off from the e-drums of the 
present, other than the amount/variety of sound you can make with 
the electronics. 

Of course we played the real snares, and as others have said, played 
on everything that you could bounce a stick on (and some that didn't 
bounce).  But anyone that has done drum corp knows, a field snare 
doesn't feel like a concert snare, which doesn't feel like a mesh 
head, which doesn't feel like a rubber pad, etc.  

So I try and tell my son, who is just beginning to get serious about 
percussion after 3 years of elementary school band, to concentrate 
on finger and stick control, learn to read music, and spend equal, 
if not more time, on the melodic percussion (bells, xylophone).

For whatever reason, I felt compelled to add my 2 cents in here...

Having learned many, many years ago, the first thing the (high 
school) band director said was to get one of those (now) funny 
looking practice pads (the block of wood that is slanted, with a 
rubber pad on top) and learn to get a controlled rebound.  Now that 
I think of it, that's not too far off from the e-drums of the 
present, other than the amount/variety of sound you can make with 
the electronics. 

Of course we played the real snares, and as others have said, played 
on everything that you could bounce a stick on (and some that didn't 
bounce).  But anyone that has done drum corp knows, a field snare 
doesn't feel like a concert snare, which doesn't feel like a mesh 
head, which doesn't feel like a rubber pad, etc.  

So I try and tell my son, who is just beginning to get serious about 
percussion after 3 years of elementary school band, to concentrate 
on finger and stick control, learn to read music, and spend equal, 
if not more time, on the melodic percussion (bells, xylophone).

Vern:
You're a troublemaker. I'll bet you're the guy in fifth grade that 
shot spitballs at the tacher and pointed your finger at the geeky kid 
with glasses when the teacher turned (insert emoticon here).
Hey, there's no offense taken here. I'm in the camp that says e-drums 
are drums. Absolutely. 
My argument was only whether or not students should be taught on an e-
kit. To which I continue to say NO.
Stephen

I guess I go with use what you have...the greatest drummer I have ever met Is a guy in Northern VA named Nate Dougan...I had the honor of knowing him before he became great and then got to play with him for a few years...the kids parents wouldn't buy him drums so he would practice with chopsticks on various object...I later talked his folks into buying him a used tama starclassic from a friend...but I see it as...if you are going to buy a set, and have room and don't mind the noise...get them Acoustic...if you already have an E set, use it...or if there is more of a need of e features... 
Man I feel like I am in the ol' acoustic guitar vs Electric argument...use what fits...

brown8700 <brown8700@...> wrote:
Vern:
You're a troublemaker. I'll bet you're the guy in fifth grade that 
shot spitballs at the tacher and pointed your finger at the geeky kid 
with glasses when the teacher turned (insert emoticon here).
Hey, there's no offense taken here. I'm in the camp that says e-drums 
are drums. Absolutely. 
My argument was only whether or not students should be taught on an e-
kit. To which I continue to say NO.
Stephen



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brown8700 said:
> Vern:
> You're a troublemaker.

Guilty as charged, your honor! :D

> I'll bet you're the guy in fifth grade that
> shot spitballs at the tacher and pointed your finger at the geeky kid
> with glasses when the teacher turned (insert emoticon here).

no no no... I *was* the geeky kid with glasses!!!

> Hey, there's no offense taken here. I'm in the camp that says e-drums
> are drums. Absolutely.

Glad to hear we had not p*ssed u off! :) I really like intellectual
debates such as this where different opinions and the underlying thought
processes are paraded out for everyone to learn from or critique. Can be
very enlightening. Note: -Enlightening- is good. Inflammatory... not
good!  :)

> My argument was only whether or not students should be taught on an e-
> kit. To which I continue to say NO.

As was pointed out in a previous post, high school kids are routinely
taught to play snare by having them practice on a little rubber practice
pad, much like a gum-rubber Yamaha pad? It would seem there is a place
for e-drums in the learning process. :)

Of course, I have to admit there is certainly something to be said for
the experience of playing an acoustic set. Not anything really quite like
banging away on a big acoustic kit on stage in front of a crowd. Mega
fun! :D

::sigh:: them were the days... My brother reminisces about football games
he was in, I wax nostalgic about some of the the shows I played in my
younger days... ;)

[[[Now where did I put that copy of Springsteen's "Glory Days"...?]]]

Vern

--
Vern Graner CNE/CNA/SSE    | "If the network is down, then you're
Senior Systems Engineer    | obviously incompetent so why are we
Texas Information Services | paying you? Of course, if the network
http://www.txis.com        | is up, then we obviously don't need
Austin Office 512 328-8947 | you, so why are we paying you?" VLG

This just occurred to me- perhaps what we are doing is practicing "Musical
stick-craft." Anything we hit can be called a "drum" or perhaps a "victim."

-----Original Message-----
From: brown8700 [mailto:brown8700@...]
Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2003 7:26 AM
To: DTXpress@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DTXpress] Re: Are "edrums", "real" drums? (was: Comparison:
electronic vs. acoustic kit


Vern:
You're a troublemaker. I'll bet you're the guy in fifth grade that
shot spitballs at the tacher and pointed your finger at the geeky kid
with glasses when the teacher turned (insert emoticon here).
Hey, there's no offense taken here. I'm in the camp that says e-drums
are drums. Absolutely.
My argument was only whether or not students should be taught on an e-
kit. To which I continue to say NO.
Stephen


Community email addresses:
  Post message: DTXpress@yahoogroups.com
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