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2002-08-30 by sealed
Hello, I experimented with CZ's SysEx for these few days, and found some hidden parameters. I uploaded my findings on my site. http://homepage.mac.com/synth_seal/html/index.html It includes: * New waveforms * Window function (a kind of AM used to emulate resonance) * New Ring/Noise Modulation mode * Wider and faster vibrato * SoundDiver adaptation Take a look at my site and tell me your thought and relevant information. Thanks! Regards, Sealed
2002-08-30 by Furman, Jon W.
Wow, Sealed you rock! I'm going to check some of this out this weekend. Very cool.
-----Original Message----- From: sealed [mailto:sealed@...] Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 9:15 AM To: CZsynth@yahoogroups.com Subject: [CZsynth] CZ's hidden parameters Hello, I experimented with CZ's SysEx for these few days, and found some hidden parameters. I uploaded my findings on my site. http://homepage.mac.com/synth_seal/html/index.html <http://homepage.mac.com/synth_seal/html/index.html> It includes: * New waveforms * Window function (a kind of AM used to emulate resonance) * New Ring/Noise Modulation mode * Wider and faster vibrato * SoundDiver adaptation Take a look at my site and tell me your thought and relevant information. Thanks! Regards, Sealed Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT <http://rd.yahoo.com/M=228862.2128520.3581629.2225242/D=egroupweb/S=17050321 44:HM/A=1182693/R=0/*http:/adfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/990-1736-1039-335%0d%0 a> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: CZsynth-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2002-08-30 by msg@matucana.de
Hello sealed, that is pretty neat work. I suspected as much, as loading the CZ memory with random number produces strange sounds, but you researched it thoroughly. Great! I think I will write an simple Editor for the Atari. Hellmuth
>Subject: [CZsynth] CZ's hidden parameters > I experimented with CZ's SysEx for these few days, and found some hidden > parameters. > I uploaded my findings on my site.
2002-08-31 by sealed
Thank you for your interest, Jon!! Let's explore CZ's potential - there is still much more... Sealed > Wow, Sealed you rock! I'm going to check some of this out this weekend. Very
> cool. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: sealed [mailto:sealed@...] > Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 9:15 AM > To: CZsynth@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [CZsynth] CZ's hidden parameters > > > > Hello, > > I experimented with CZ's SysEx for these few days, and found some hidden > parameters. > I uploaded my findings on my site. > > http://homepage.mac.com/synth_seal/html/index.html > <http://homepage.mac.com/synth_seal/html/index.html> > > It includes: > > * New waveforms > * Window function (a kind of AM used to emulate resonance) > * New Ring/Noise Modulation mode > * Wider and faster vibrato > * SoundDiver adaptation > > Take a look at my site and tell me your thought and relevant information. > Thanks! > > Regards, > Sealed
2002-08-31 by sealed
> Hello sealed, > > that is pretty neat work. I suspected as much, as loading the CZ memory > with random number produces strange sounds, but you researched it > thoroughly. Great! I think I will write an simple Editor for the Atari. > > Hellmuth Thank you very much, Hellmuth. I haven't tried myself randomizing CZ. Those who tried like you seem to have found CZ's exceptional behaviour.. . > would you please be so kind to tell me where the "new" parameters are hidden > in the cz sysex data? I am currently writing a small editor for the Atari > ST, so your > info would be very helpful. I have the CZ SysEx implementation chart, so I > know > where the official parameters are. Waveform / Modulation: CZ's waveform and modulation mode are represented in two-byte SysEx. Select wave1, wave2, wave2-enable-flag, and Window Function, as usual. Ring/Noise Modulation is represented in bit 2-5 (My book mistakenly describes it as bit 1-3). These 4 bits mean the 'Structure,' in my terms. Vibrato / Detune / Multiple Sustain Points: Just tweak their usual SysEx data beyond the official range. Try above and ask me if it is still unclear. Sealed
2002-08-31 by oljare
I've known about the"extended"results of sending illegal data to the CZ before, either from some posts here or on another mailing list. But i wasn't aware that it was this advanced. Perhaps the designers intended to make these "alternate modes" available through some kind of ROM extension, or external editor? /Mats Öljare
2002-09-01 by sealed
Hello Mats, People who use computer may have long known the 'extended' feature. I only recently began to use computer for music. Maybe, there have been few people who have both computer and SysEx document... Some CASIO crews may have hoped the extended features to be utilized - as they were so proud of their original synth engine. But as I suspect, they may have first implemented whatever they could, and then tailored or curtailed them to set up a user-friendly interface. For the extended features appear to have some 'underground' quality. They are sometimes too noisy and imperfect, considering the fact that CZ was introduced long before the arrival of the lo-fi-worshipping era. 'Alternate modes' could be more useful today than those days.... Best, Sealed > I've known about the"extended"results of sending illegal data to the > CZ before, either from some posts here or on another mailing list. But
> i wasn't aware that it was this advanced. Perhaps the designers > intended to make these "alternate modes" available through some kind > of ROM extension, or external editor? > > /Mats $B)M(Bjare
2002-09-02 by phd76er
--- In CZsynth@y..., sealed <sealed@m...> wrote: > Hello, > > I experimented with CZ's SysEx for these few days, and found some hidden > parameters. > I uploaded my findings on my site. > > http://homepage.mac.com/synth_seal/html/index.html > > It includes: > > * New waveforms > * Window function (a kind of AM used to emulate resonance) > * New Ring/Noise Modulation mode > * Wider and faster vibrato > * SoundDiver adaptation > > Take a look at my site and tell me your thought and relevant information. > Thanks! > > Regards, > Sealed how about to write a similar editor for window/non sounddiver users? I have no sounddiver and like to access the secret parameters anyway. AND... has anyone ever considered or tried to manipulate the CZ's OS so the secret parameters can be instantly accessed from board?
2002-09-03 by sealed
I don't have a Windows and I'm not familiar with programming, but my editor - I hope - might be able to be used in SoundDiver on Windows. SoundDiver allows the users to create their own editors. Is there any Windows application (perhaps, free) that does the same? And the CZ's new OS.... Considerable reverse engineering and EPROM burning needed.... But if there is someone capable of this, I hope he adds much more functions than the 'secret' parameters, such as true LFO etc. I've always hoped CASIO expands the CZ's ability and creates my dream machine.... Sealed
> how about to write a similar editor for window/non sounddiver users? > I have no sounddiver and like to access the secret parameters anyway. > AND... has anyone ever considered or tried to manipulate the CZ's OS > so the secret parameters can be instantly accessed from board?
2002-09-03 by phd76er
--- In CZsynth@y..., sealed <sealed@m...> wrote: > I don't have a Windows and I'm not familiar with programming, but my > editor - I hope - might be able to be used in SoundDiver on Windows. > SoundDiver allows the users to create their own editors. Is there any > Windows application (perhaps, free) that does the same? > > And the CZ's new OS.... Considerable reverse engineering and EPROM burning > needed.... > But if there is someone capable of this, I hope he adds much more functions > than the 'secret' parameters, such as true LFO etc. I've always hoped > CASIO expands the CZ's ability and creates my dream machine.... > > Sealed > > > > how about to write a similar editor for window/non sounddiver users? > > I have no sounddiver and like to access the secret parameters anyway. > > AND... has anyone ever considered or tried to manipulate the CZ's OS > > so the secret parameters can be instantly accessed from board? Hummmm.. I'm not familiar with programming and electronics either.. but I have lots of ideas and I think one real good idea would be to create a programmer module with midi in+thru+out for the Gameboy (advnaced) to control and program cz synthies, of course with LFO function to modulate DCW from that module.. any programmers and electricans SPEAK UP! :) that would be a kewl thing - mess the cz up like you play Super Mario!!
2002-09-03 by Summa
Hi, I haven't tried it but there's a freeware Open Source Java Synth Editor called JSynthLib. Maybe someone can write a CZ editor module for it that supports the additional parameters, patch and bank librarian are already implemented... ...Summa On 3 Sep 2002 at 9:43, sealed wrote: > I don't have a Windows and I'm not familiar with programming, but my > editor - I hope - might be able to be used in SoundDiver on Windows. > SoundDiver allows the users to create their own editors. Is there any > Windows application (perhaps, free) that does the same? > > And the CZ's new OS.... Considerable reverse engineering and EPROM burning > needed.... > But if there is someone capable of this, I hope he adds much more functions > than the 'secret' parameters, such as true LFO etc. I've always hoped > CASIO expands the CZ's ability and creates my dream machine.... > > Sealed > > > > how about to write a similar editor for window/non sounddiver users? > > I have no sounddiver and like to access the secret parameters anyway. > > AND... has anyone ever considered or tried to manipulate the CZ's OS > > so the secret parameters can be instantly accessed from board? > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > CZsynth-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > A Touch of Future - Project: http://www.mp3.com/AToF/ Casio CZ Synth Station: http://www.mp3.com/stations/CZ/ CZ/VZ list : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CZsynth FMHeaven list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fmheaven/ Boycott the Premium Artist Service!!!
2002-09-03 by msg@matucana.de
Hi Sealed, > Waveform / Modulation: > CZ's waveform and modulation mode are represented in two-byte SysEx. > Select wave1, wave2, wave2-enable-flag, and Window Function, as usual. > Ring/Noise Modulation is represented in bit 2-5 (My book mistakenly describes > it as bit 1-3). These 4 bits mean the 'Structure,' in my terms. > > Vibrato / Detune / Multiple Sustain Points: > Just tweak their usual SysEx data beyond the official range. Got it! Now I need just a bit of more testing. The receive routine works, and the editing. Next week, I hope the first version to be ready. Mats, of course you will get a chance to try. I have already included a parameter, as the CZ-1 differs a bit from the others. Still, it should work with a CZ-101. Lokking Forward to it! Hellmuth
2002-09-04 by sealed
> Hummmm.. I'm not familiar with programming and electronics either.. > but I have lots of ideas and I think one real good idea would be to > create a programmer module with midi in+thru+out for the Gameboy > (advnaced) to control and program cz synthies, of course with LFO > function to modulate DCW from that module.. any programmers and > electricans SPEAK UP! :) that would be a kewl thing - mess the cz up > like you play Super Mario!! I too wish there were such compact and universal editor, a portable sounddiver for synths. Hope it had an alpha-dial....
2002-09-04 by sealed
Thank you for your information, Summa. I hope someone would write a new Windows CZ editor with it. I wish JSynthLib worked on my Mac, too. Then I wouldn't have to hurry buying SoundDiver.... Sealed > Hi, > > I haven't tried it but there's a freeware Open Source Java Synth > Editor called JSynthLib. Maybe someone can write a CZ editor module > for it that supports the additional parameters, patch and bank > librarian are already implemented... > > > ...Summa > > > > On 3 Sep 2002 at 9:43, sealed wrote: > > > I don't have a Windows and I'm not familiar with programming, but my > > editor - I hope - might be able to be used in SoundDiver on Windows. > > SoundDiver allows the users to create their own editors. Is there any > > Windows application (perhaps, free) that does the same? > > > > And the CZ's new OS.... Considerable reverse engineering and EPROM burning > > needed.... > > But if there is someone capable of this, I hope he adds much more functions > > than the 'secret' parameters, such as true LFO etc. I've always hoped > > CASIO expands the CZ's ability and creates my dream machine.... > > > > Sealed > > > > > > > how about to write a similar editor for window/non sounddiver users? > > > I have no sounddiver and like to access the secret parameters anyway. > > > AND... has anyone ever considered or tried to manipulate the CZ's OS > > > so the secret parameters can be instantly accessed from board? > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > CZsynth-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/ terms/ > > > > > > > > A Touch of Future - Project: http://www.mp3.com/AToF/ > Casio CZ Synth Station: http://www.mp3.com/stations/CZ/ > > CZ/VZ list : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CZsynth > FMHeaven list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fmheaven/ > > Boycott the Premium Artist Service!!! > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------- ~--> > 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now > http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/QnLolB/TM > --------------------------------------------------------------------- ~-> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > CZsynth-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/ terms/ > >
2002-09-04 by sealed
> Got it! Now I need just a bit of more testing. The receive routine > works, and the editing. Next week, I hope the first version to > be ready. Mats, of course you will get a chance to try. I have > already included a parameter, as the CZ-1 differs a bit from the others. > Still, it should work with a CZ-101. Lokking Forward to it! > > Hellmuth Yes!! Your editor seems to be more complete than mine, and I hope your ATARI brings new possibilities to our CZ....
2002-09-04 by Bastiaan van de Werk
I think the hardware would cost quite a lot...y not use a laptop and use the GB for Nanoloop??
----- Original Message -----
From: sealed
To: CZsynth@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 11:55 AM
Subject: Re: [CZsynth] Re: CZ's hidden parameters - SD Editor - how about...
> Hummmm.. I'm not familiar with programming and electronics either..
> but I have lots of ideas and I think one real good idea would be to
> create a programmer module with midi in+thru+out for the Gameboy
> (advnaced) to control and program cz synthies, of course with LFO
> function to modulate DCW from that module.. any programmers and
> electricans SPEAK UP! :) that would be a kewl thing - mess the cz up
> like you play Super Mario!!
I too wish there were such compact and universal editor, a portable sounddiver
for synths. Hope it had an alpha-dial....
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]2002-09-04 by Eitan Shefer
has anyone done a reaktor CZ emulation? a few years ago I begun doing one, but never got to finish it. The idea was to sample single cycle loops of ALL of the CZ waves and emulate the ocilators by going thru the cycle loops.. thus emulating the "filter" envelope.. I stopped doing it once I realized I had to sample, edit, 32*100 of those cycle loops... did anyone try something like that? I was'nt sure how I would emulate the ringmod, though..
2002-09-04 by sealed
Exactly.... In reality I should use laptop with something like a Doepfer Pocket Control. But I also wish Doepfer had an LCD and could control syx by itself.... > I think the hardware would cost quite a lot...y not use a laptop and use the GB for Nanoloop?? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: sealed > To: CZsynth@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 11:55 AM > Subject: Re: [CZsynth] Re: CZ's hidden parameters - SD Editor - how about... > > > > Hummmm.. I'm not familiar with programming and electronics either.. > > but I have lots of ideas and I think one real good idea would be to > > create a programmer module with midi in+thru+out for the Gameboy > > (advnaced) to control and program cz synthies, of course with LFO > > function to modulate DCW from that module.. any programmers and > > electricans SPEAK UP! :) that would be a kewl thing - mess the cz up > > like you play Super Mario!! > > I too wish there were such compact and universal editor, a portable sounddiver > for synths. Hope it had an alpha-dial.... > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > CZsynth-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------- ~--> > Looking for a more powerful website? Try GeoCities for $8.95 per month. > Register your domain name (http://your-name.com). More storage! No ads! > http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info > http://us.click.yahoo.com/aHOo4D/KJoEAA/MVfIAA/QnLolB/TM > --------------------------------------------------------------------- ~-> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > CZsynth-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/ terms/ > >
2002-09-04 by phd76er
--- In CZsynth@y..., sealed <sealed@m...> wrote: > Exactly.... In reality I should use laptop with something like a Doepfer > Pocket Control. But I also wish Doepfer had an LCD and could control > syx by itself.... > > > I think the hardware would cost quite a lot...y not use a laptop and > use the GB for Nanoloop?? > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: sealed > > To: CZsynth@y... > > Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 11:55 AM > > Subject: Re: [CZsynth] Re: CZ's hidden parameters - SD Editor - how > about... > > > > > > > Hummmm.. I'm not familiar with programming and electronics either.. > > > > but I have lots of ideas and I think one real good idea would be > to > > > create a programmer module with midi in+thru+out for the Gameboy > > > (advnaced) to control and program cz synthies, of course with LFO > > > function to modulate DCW from that module.. any programmers and > > > electricans SPEAK UP! :) that would be a kewl thing - mess the > cz up > > > like you play Super Mario!! > > > > I too wish there were such compact and universal editor, a portable > sounddiver > > for synths. Hope it had an alpha-dial.... > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > CZsynth-unsubscribe@y... > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ------------------- -- > ~--> > > Looking for a more powerful website? Try GeoCities for $8.95 per month. > > Register your domain name (http://your-name.com). More storage! No > ads! > > http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/aHOo4D/KJoEAA/MVfIAA/QnLolB/TM > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ --- > ~-> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > CZsynth-unsubscribe@y... > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/ > terms/ > > > > hmm.. how much does such a programmable cartridge or programmer module for the gameboy cost? Wouldn't do a cheapyo gameboy1 naff for this? However it would be worth a try if not for the cz then for many other synths. I personally would prefer something like this than a laptop (no doe for for a new puter) to keep my "studio" small as possible and I'd find it kewl to program a synth as if you play tetris :) now don't ask me anything about music gear I'm a total newbie to this and all I got is my cz1000, CS01 and a pc.
2002-09-04 by jpkurki
--- In CZsynth@y..., Eitan Shefer <eshefer@a...> wrote: > has anyone done a reaktor CZ emulation? I have no reactor (= overpriced for capabilities.. if you ask me), but I use SynCmodular and SynthEdit. There is currently a prototype of Cz-101 on works with synthedit. It's not public yet and I'm testing it (current name is CzAlpha) It has 8-stage envelopes and Cz-waveforms about right (not noise and Ringmod). Synthedit has good PD-oscillator on basic pack (and yes,.. it's curently freeware.. may become SW sometime though). For more info of Synthedit see http://www.synthedit.com/ and http://groups.yahoo.com/group/syntheditusers/ > a few years ago I begun doing one, but never got to finish it. The idea > was to sample single cycle loops of ALL of the CZ waves and emulate the > ocilators by going thru the cycle loops.. thus emulating the "filter" > envelope.. I stopped doing it once I realized I had to sample, edit, > 32*100 of those cycle loops... Does not sound good idea.. IMHO too much work and will not produce continuous sound flow.. Allthough those walues are entered as integers that system does count on floats.. (or fixed point).. So it would not be as smooth as original on waveform trasitions. Best chanse currently is Synthedit.. It has decent PD-synth generators (and about right waveforms).. > did anyone try something like that? > > I was'nt sure how I would emulate the ringmod, though.. I'm sure it can be handled.. That synth sounds currently a bit too clean though.. How could it be made more rough like real CZ-101 ??? Joanna
2002-09-04 by Summa
You should try to use FM to emulate the CZ. I think it should be possible to get quite close with an 3OP FM per CZ-Oszillator + Ringmod... I maybe try this if after I gain more experience with Reaktor, I only have it for one week yet and not much time to get into it... When it comes to ringmod it should work the same way it does on the CZ if you use an envelope (on the CZ it's the DCA2 EG) to control how much of the ringmodulator will be added to the emulated CZ- Oszillator1 and don't mix CZ-Oszillator2 to the output anymore. On 4 Sep 2002 at 16:33, Eitan Shefer wrote: > has anyone done a reaktor CZ emulation? > > a few years ago I begun doing one, but never got to finish it. The idea > was to sample single cycle loops of ALL of the CZ waves and emulate the > ocilators by going thru the cycle loops.. thus emulating the "filter" > envelope.. I stopped doing it once I realized I had to sample, edit, > 32*100 of those cycle loops... > > did anyone try something like that? > > I was'nt sure how I would emulate the ringmod, though.. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > CZsynth-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > A Touch of Future - Project: http://www.mp3.com/AToF/ Casio CZ Synth Station: http://www.mp3.com/stations/CZ/ CZ/VZ list : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CZsynth FMHeaven list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fmheaven/ Boycott the Premium Artist Service!!!
2002-09-04 by Eitan Shefer
On Wed, Sep 04, 2002 at 03:41:25PM -0000, jpkurki wrote:
> --- In CZsynth@y..., Eitan Shefer <eshefer@a...> wrote:
> > has anyone done a reaktor CZ emulation?
>
> I have no reactor (= overpriced for capabilities.. if you ask me), but
ah, welll.. it's pretty expensive, I agree..
> I use SynCmodular and SynthEdit. There is currently a prototype of
> Cz-101 on works with synthedit. It's not public yet and I'm testing it
> (current name is CzAlpha)
sounds cool..
>
> It has 8-stage envelopes and Cz-waveforms about right (not noise and
> Ringmod). Synthedit has good PD-oscillator on basic pack (and yes,..
> it's curently freeware.. may become SW sometime though).
>
> For more info of Synthedit
> see http://www.synthedit.com/
> and http://groups.yahoo.com/group/syntheditusers/
Thanks for the heads up, I'm DLing it and I'll test it over the weekend.
> > a few years ago I begun doing one, but never got to finish it. The idea
> > was to sample single cycle loops of ALL of the CZ waves and emulate the
> > ocilators by going thru the cycle loops.. thus emulating the "filter"
> > envelope.. I stopped doing it once I realized I had to sample, edit,
> > 32*100 of those cycle loops...
>
> Does not sound good idea.. IMHO too much work and will not produce
> continuous sound flow.. Allthough those walues are entered as integers
> that system does count on floats.. (or fixed point).. So it would not
> be as smooth as original on waveform trasitions.
I agree about it being too much work.. about the flow.. I remember there
were no problems with the flow. actually it was pretty cool, the
potential of real tweekability of the "filter" section of the CZ was
pretty probable. I initially checked the model with blocks of 10 samples
(instead of 100), and it sounded pretty good. IMHO it could be done. I
tryed to get NI interested in emulating the cz themselves, but in the
end nothing came of it.
>
> Best chanse currently is Synthedit.. It has decent PD-synth generators
> (and about right waveforms)..
>
> > did anyone try something like that?
> >
> > I was'nt sure how I would emulate the ringmod, though..
>
> I'm sure it can be handled.. That synth sounds currently a bit too
> clean though.. How could it be made more rough like real CZ-101 ???
I remember reading someware that the CZ's ring mod is'nt a "real" ring
mod, per say, I don't remember the technicalities of it, though..
Eitan.
--
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((....
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< :
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_'' \_ Eitan Shefer.
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