The Yamaha AN1x Synthesizer mailing list

Are the AN1X enveloples linear or non-linear? Is there any difference 
between the pitch envelope and the filter envelope in this regard.

Is it my imagination, or is the pitch envelope logarithmic and the 
filter envelope linear?

I was doing sync sweeps with envelopes, and I "thought" that when I 
engaged the pitch envelope, the sync moved very fast in the early 
stages and then started to slow down. But the filter envelope (for 
roughly the same decay time and depth (zero attack) seemed to give a 
more leisurely, even sweep. 

So I tried the envelopes out with pitch sweeps. I dialed in a slow 2 
octave pitch sweep with the pitch envelope. It seemed that the 1st 
octave of sweep happened much faster than the second. Then I self 
oscillated the filter and tried running through about 2 octaves of 
pitch (zero attack, decay time corresponding to decay on the pitch 
envelope), and it seemed much more even. But I was relying on my 
(awful)ears.

I'd love to know what you guys think. Is there a test we can do, that 
would allow us to view the shape of the envelope? Or would one of you 
try the audio test I described and tell me what you think?

Sorry for the nerdy question. The difference (if any) could be quite 
important for the synthesis of plucked and struck sounds, 
particularly those with FM or sync where you have a choice of 
envelopes.

Thank you,

Jerry

--- In AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry Aiyathurai 
<tuskerfort@h...>" <tuskerfort@h...> wrote:
> Are the AN1X enveloples linear or non-linear? Is there any 
difference 
> between the pitch envelope and the filter envelope in this 
regard.
> 

Liner v non-Linear? Couldn't say but..

> Is it my imagination, or is the pitch envelope logarithmic and 
the 
> filter envelope linear?
> 

..bear in mind the AN1x has only a Depth & Decay setting for the 
PEG (as opposed to the PLG150AN which has an added Attack 
parm.) 

The FEG is a full fledged ADSR (attack, decay, sustain, & release 
parms.)

> I was doing sync sweeps with envelopes, and I "thought" that 
when I 
> engaged the pitch envelope, the sync moved very fast in the 
early 
> stages and then started to slow down. But the filter envelope 
(for 
> roughly the same decay time and depth (zero attack) seemed 
to give a 
> more leisurely, even sweep. 

See above. The PEG is behaving how you think it is.

A dedicated ADSR (or better) EG for Pitch is not common too 
many synth - late model Ensoniq synths had very sophisticated 
Tiem and Rate envelopes for Ptich, Amp & FC and I wouldn't be 
surprised if the Kurzweils did too. It's been a few years since I've 
had hands on time with a KORG and my memory fails me.


> 
> So I tried the envelopes out with pitch sweeps. I dialed in a 
slow 2 
> octave pitch sweep with the pitch envelope. It seemed that the 
1st 
> octave of sweep happened much faster than the second. Then 
I self 
> oscillated the filter and tried running through about 2 octaves of 
> pitch (zero attack, decay time corresponding to decay on the 
pitch 
> envelope), and it seemed much more even. But I was relying 
on my 
> (awful)ears.
> 
> I'd love to know what you guys think. Is there a test we can do, 
that 
> would allow us to view the shape of the envelope? Or would 
one of you 
> try the audio test I described and tell me what you think?
> 
> Sorry for the nerdy question. The difference (if any) could be 
quite 
> important for the synthesis of plucked and struck sounds, 
> particularly those with FM or sync where you have a choice of 
> envelopes.
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Jerry

regards,

Jon

Is the decay on the pitch envelope the same shape as the decay on the 
filter envelope?

For what it's worth I did a semi-objective test and here are the 
results. The envelopes aren't different as far as I can tell with the 
tools I have. However pitch sweeping the  the resonant filter with 
the filter envelope (subjectively) provides a very different sound 
than pitch sweeping a sine wave (Edge=0) through the same pitch in 
the same amount of time. This is due partly due to the signal 
strength at various frequencies. The filter resonance is strong at 
high filters and fades out at the low frequencies, the oscillator is 
pretty consistent throughout. For an imitation of a percussive Bwap, 
I found the oscillator version more interesting.

So how did I test the envelopes? Well I set up a pitch sweep (sine 
wave traversing from 11,835 hertz to 335 hertz in roughly 14 seconds. 
For the filter sweep, I obtained a resonant sine wave and then 
traversed it from a pitch of 11,811 hertz to 335 hertz in roughly 14 
seconds. (Hertz readings were obtained from a frequency analyzer.)

I put the two sweeps side by side in a visual frequency analyzer, and 
try as I might I could not prove that the pitch envelope was any 
steeper within the precision of the frequency analyzer's graph. Both 
sweeps looked relatively exponential.

So my instincts were wrong as far as the instrument can tell. Still, 
I learned two things:
- the filter is way louder at higher frequencies. 
- the pitch envelope sweep is much more satisfying for short blips 
and bwaps. Why? I don't know. So for plucked string sounds I'll be 
using the pitch envelope to control sync or fm modulations.

Hope this is of interest to someone.

Jerry

in preparing to play out with some friends I was loading some new sounds 
into my an1x to play around with.  I stumbled upon Paper Jam's "vegas" 
patch just now -- definitely loving it!  I was just tripping out for a 
while playing just that...very pleasing.

best,
nick

Can you upload the one patch to the group?
Jt

 --- nick ring <nick@...> wrote: > in preparing to
play out with some friends I was loading some
> new sounds 
> into my an1x to play around with.  I stumbled upon Paper Jam's
> "vegas" 
> patch just now -- definitely loving it!  I was just tripping
> out for a 
> while playing just that...very pleasing.
> 
> best,
> nick
> 
> 
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At 07:42 PM 2/1/03 +0000, you wrote:
>Can you upload the one patch to the group?
>Jt

jt,
         it's in the files section for this group... as part of the 
collections that jon gathered of patches made by listmembers.  I believe 
it's in the first of the two collections.

best,
nick

>Shortcut URL to this page:
> 
><http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AN1x-list>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AN1x-list

--- In AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com, nick ring <nick@s...> wrote:
> At 07:42 PM 2/1/03 +0000, you wrote:
> >Can you upload the one patch to the group?
> >Jt
> 
> jt,
>          it's in the files section for this group... as part of the 
> collections that jon gathered of patches made by listmembers.  
I believe 
> it's in the first of the two collections.
> 
> best,
> nick
> 
> >Shortcut URL to this page:
> > 
> 
><http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AN1x-list>http://groups.yahoo.c
om/group/AN1x-list

There are HTML 'read me' docs in the Files section that list the 
individual contributions to each archive. Copies of these doc's 
are included with the actual archives too.

regards,

Jon