The Yamaha AN1x Synthesizer mailing list

Have any PLG150-AN users been able to get the Matrix to work with 
their mothership?

So far, on my CS6x I've only been able to get the modulation wheel 
and the ribbon controller x to work (but not y--is there such a 
setting for the CS6x or is that AN1x specific?). In AN1xedit I 
assigned a parameter to the mod wheel and presto, it worked. For the 
ribbon controller I had to change the AN1xedit setting for the RBx to 
22, and then it too worked. Oh, and pitch bend worked without a hitch 
either.

Then I set assignable controller 1 to 16 on the plg native screen on 
my CS6x and the matrix controller 1 to 16, but it did not work. What 
am I overlooking?

Also I noticed that the plg board screen on the CS6x only has 4 
assignable controllers--0but I guess this is no big deal since you 
can assign the rb, mod, an pb for "free."

One of these days I'll be able to answer a question...

THNX,

-DC

--- In AN1x-list@y..., "davidcomdico" <davidcomdico@y...> wrote:
> Have any PLG150-AN users been able to get the Matrix to work 
with 
> their mothership?
> 
> So far, on my CS6x I've only been able to get the modulation 
wheel 
> and the ribbon controller x to work (but not y--is there such a 
> setting for the CS6x or is that AN1x specific?). In AN1xedit I 
> assigned a parameter to the mod wheel and presto, it worked. 
For the 
> ribbon controller I had to change the AN1xedit setting for the 
RBx to 
> 22, and then it too worked. Oh, and pitch bend worked without 
a hitch 
> either.
> 
> Then I set assignable controller 1 to 16 on the plg native 
screen on 
> my CS6x and the matrix controller 1 to 16, but it did not work. 
What 
> am I overlooking?

What exactly are you trying to control with MIDI CC #016?

I'm looking at the Control Change Modes chart in the AN1x Data 
List pamphlet (p.9) and CC 16 has no default value in Mode 1. In 
Mode 2 it is LFO1 Speed. Since I don't own a PLG150AN I can 
only assume the Control Change Modes are identical. I'm 
uncertain which mode the PLG150AN defaults to but I suspect it 
would be Mode 1 and, unless you've assigned MIDI CC #016 to 
a parameter in the Control Matrix, I don't see why there would be 
any effect? 

> 
> Also I noticed that the plg board screen on the CS6x only has 4 
> assignable controllers--0but I guess this is no big deal since 
you 
> can assign the rb, mod, an pb for "free."

Do you mean that Ribbon Controller X & Z axis, Mod Wheel and 
Pitch Wheel have default settings? That would make some 
sense to me - but I don't understand why you are limitedto 4 
Assign Knobs settings from the CS6x. That seems arbitrary...

regards,

Jon

Thanks for the response. I should have been a bit clearer in my 
first post. So, first, I'll back track a bit.

The CS6X has numerous control buttons on it, many of which 
work with the PLG-An in an identical manner to the built-in tone 
generator. For example, there are cutoff and resonance buttons 
that control said parameters on the CS6X as well as the 
PLG-AN. Ditto the mod wheel and pitch bend and ribbon, but the 
latter only after you have set the ribbon to receive on cc22 (or 
whatever cc# you have set on your CS6X) in An1xedit.

The CS6X doesn't have a matrix per se, but 6 "control sets" with 
each set allowing you to assign a controller to a single 
parameter. Now, when you edit a PLG-AN voice you do NOT have 
access to these control sets. Instead you have a screen that 
allows you to assign controllers to CC#, called AC1-4. I am 
assuming these correspond to AC 1 through 4 in AN1Xedit--BUT 
I AM NOT sure since the documentation for neither the plg nor 
An1Xedit makes any reference to it. When you assign a 
parameter on the CS6X, say to the mod wheel, you have to use 
up one of these control sets. Even though you only have 4 with 
the PLG-AN, two less, it appears that you can assign these three 
controllers from within AN1xedit and still leave 1-4 free.

On the CS6X you can assign ONE parameter--that controlled by 
AC1. You cannot control the other three from the synth menu 
system.

On the CS6X, there are two user definable knobs that one uses 
for each voice--they can be assigned freely. They default to #16 
and 17. So what I did was assign Ac1, for example, to #16 and 
set the corresponding AC in AN1xedit to #16 as well and then set 
a parameter. It did not work.

But maybe I overlooked something simple.....


-DC

 
> What exactly are you trying to control with MIDI CC #016?
> 
> I'm looking at the Control Change Modes chart in the AN1x 
Data 
> List pamphlet (p.9) and CC 16 has no default value in Mode 1. 
In 
> Mode 2 it is LFO1 Speed. Since I don't own a PLG150AN I can 
> only assume the Control Change Modes are identical. I'm 
> uncertain which mode the PLG150AN defaults to but I suspect 
it 
> would be Mode 1 and, unless you've assigned MIDI CC #016 
to 
> a parameter in the Control Matrix, I don't see why there would 
be 
> any effect? 
> 
> > 
> > Also I noticed that the plg board screen on the CS6x only has 
4 

> > assignable controllers--0but I guess this is no big deal since 
> you 
> > can assign the rb, mod, an pb for "free."
> 
> Do you mean that Ribbon Controller X & Z axis, Mod Wheel and 
> Pitch Wheel have default settings? That would make some 
> sense to me - but I don't understand why you are limitedto 4 
> Assign Knobs settings from the CS6x. That seems arbitrary...
> 
> regards,
> 
> Jon

Hi DC

I don't have a CS6x so I can't resolve this problem for you
definitively.

However you have to be careful to understand which parameters you are
actually editing on the PLG150AN when it is inside a host such as CS6x.

The PLG150AN board contains the AN engine, but this is married to a
pseudo XG like part. If you take a look at Yamahas editors for its
XGworks software, you will find there are two editors available: AN
Expert (which is a reworked version of my AN1xEdit code) and ANEasy.

The AN Easy editor actually manipulates the XG like parameters (take a
look  at the sysex it generates....its XG, Not AN). In essence these
parameters operate like offsets on top of what the AN engine is doing.
In general when you edit the AN device from the host front panel it will
be these parameters you modify...NOT the AN engine parameters.

Bearing this in mind, you have to be careful when referencing AC1 & 2 on
the host device. These almost certainly refer to the XG part assignable
controllers and will modify the XG part (easy offset parameters) i.,e.
they are not the assignable control knobs or matrix parameters of
AN1xEdit. As such they will probably have no effect on the AN device
sound. (Furthermore, I can't be sure, but controllers assigned in this
way, may actually be filtered from reaching the AN engine).  

Personally I would try assigning your CS6x knobs to something other than
the defaults, then using the AN1xEdit matrix to setup a response on the
AN engine.

Regards

Gary Gregson

Email:gary@...
http://www.yme.co.uk/yme 

-----Original Message-----
From: davidcomdico [mailto:davidcomdico@...] 
Sent: 11 January 2002 04:09
To: AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AN1x-list] Re: PLG-AN and the Matrix

Thanks for the response. I should have been a bit clearer in my 
first post. So, first, I'll back track a bit.

The CS6X has numerous control buttons on it, many of which 
work with the PLG-An in an identical manner to the built-in tone 
generator. For example, there are cutoff and resonance buttons 
that control said parameters on the CS6X as well as the 
PLG-AN. Ditto the mod wheel and pitch bend and ribbon, but the 
latter only after you have set the ribbon to receive on cc22 (or 
whatever cc# you have set on your CS6X) in An1xedit.

The CS6X doesn't have a matrix per se, but 6 "control sets" with 
each set allowing you to assign a controller to a single 
parameter. Now, when you edit a PLG-AN voice you do NOT have 
access to these control sets. Instead you have a screen that 
allows you to assign controllers to CC#, called AC1-4. I am 
assuming these correspond to AC 1 through 4 in AN1Xedit--BUT 
I AM NOT sure since the documentation for neither the plg nor 
An1Xedit makes any reference to it. When you assign a 
parameter on the CS6X, say to the mod wheel, you have to use 
up one of these control sets. Even though you only have 4 with 
the PLG-AN, two less, it appears that you can assign these three 
controllers from within AN1xedit and still leave 1-4 free.

On the CS6X you can assign ONE parameter--that controlled by 
AC1. You cannot control the other three from the synth menu 
system.

On the CS6X, there are two user definable knobs that one uses 
for each voice--they can be assigned freely. They default to #16 
and 17. So what I did was assign Ac1, for example, to #16 and 
set the corresponding AC in AN1xedit to #16 as well and then set 
a parameter. It did not work.

But maybe I overlooked something simple.....


-DC

Thanks for the reply Gary.

I keep forgetting to include things in my posts. Much of this is new 
to me, so I'm just trying to make sense of it all. XG is completely 
foreign so forgive my mistakes.

I am on a Mac and so I have never used Yamaha's An1x editors--only 
AN1Xedit, which I'd like to thank you for. Maybe the Yammy 
documentation explains some of this. I dunno.

I also neglected to mention something else. Assigning a controller 
and corresponding parameter for AC1 from the CS6X menu system works 
fine, even with the default control number of knob 1 (haven't tried 
knob 2 yet), however this had no effect when I tried it the other way 
around, from AN1Xedit to the CS6x.

To summarize then, the CS6X has 6 control sets for its built-in tone 
generator and 4 sets, called AC 1-4, for the plg-an (Gary, are these 
correspond to the first four controllers in the Matrix? I am assuming 
they do). You can assign AC1's controller (on the Cs6x) and a 
corresponding parameter (in the an board) from the CS6X menu system. 
The controller assignment is found in the CS6X utility menu and the 
parameter is set by voice, in the edit menu. You can set control 
numbers for AC2-4 in the voice, but you cannot assign parameters for 
them from the CS6X menu system.

SO from the CS6x I have been able assign one controller (knob 1 so 
far), the pb, mod wheel, and ribbon (after modifying voice in 
AN1xedit). I haven't behad any success assigning any further 
controllers. At least this is a start. Maybe this info alone is 
helpful to someone. When I figure it all out (if ever), I'll write 
something up.

Best,

-DC

--- In AN1x-list@y..., "Gary Gregson" <gary@y...> wrote:
> Hi DC
> 
> I don't have a CS6x so I can't resolve this problem for you
> definitively.
> 
> However you have to be careful to understand which parameters you 
are
> actually editing on the PLG150AN when it is inside a host such as 
CS6x.
> 
> The PLG150AN board contains the AN engine, but this is married to a
> pseudo XG like part. If you take a look at Yamahas editors for its
> XGworks software, you will find there are two editors available: AN
> Expert (which is a reworked version of my AN1xEdit code) and ANEasy.
> 
> The AN Easy editor actually manipulates the XG like parameters 
(take a
> look  at the sysex it generates....its XG, Not AN). In essence these
> parameters operate like offsets on top of what the AN engine is 
doing.
> In general when you edit the AN device from the host front panel it 
will
> be these parameters you modify...NOT the AN engine parameters.
> 
> Bearing this in mind, you have to be careful when referencing AC1 & 
2 on
> the host device. These almost certainly refer to the XG part 
assignable
> controllers and will modify the XG part (easy offset parameters) 
i.,e.
> they are not the assignable control knobs or matrix parameters of
> AN1xEdit. As such they will probably have no effect on the AN device
> sound. (Furthermore, I can't be sure, but controllers assigned in 
this
> way, may actually be filtered from reaching the AN engine).  
> 
> Personally I would try assigning your CS6x knobs to something other 
than
> the defaults, then using the AN1xEdit matrix to setup a response on 
the

> AN engine.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Gary Gregson
> 
> Email:gary@y...
> http://www.yme.co.uk/yme 
>  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: davidcomdico [mailto:davidcomdico@y...] 
> Sent: 11 January 2002 04:09
> To: AN1x-list@y...
> Subject: [AN1x-list] Re: PLG-AN and the Matrix
> 
> Thanks for the response. I should have been a bit clearer in my 
> first post. So, first, I'll back track a bit.
> 
> The CS6X has numerous control buttons on it, many of which 
> work with the PLG-An in an identical manner to the built-in tone 
> generator. For example, there are cutoff and resonance buttons 
> that control said parameters on the CS6X as well as the 
> PLG-AN. Ditto the mod wheel and pitch bend and ribbon, but the 
> latter only after you have set the ribbon to receive on cc22 (or 
> whatever cc# you have set on your CS6X) in An1xedit.
> 
> The CS6X doesn't have a matrix per se, but 6 "control sets" with 
> each set allowing you to assign a controller to a single 
> parameter. Now, when you edit a PLG-AN voice you do NOT have 
> access to these control sets. Instead you have a screen that 
> allows you to assign controllers to CC#, called AC1-4. I am 
> assuming these correspond to AC 1 through 4 in AN1Xedit--BUT 
> I AM NOT sure since the documentation for neither the plg nor 
> An1Xedit makes any reference to it. When you assign a 
> parameter on the CS6X, say to the mod wheel, you have to use 
> up one of these control sets. Even though you only have 4 with 
> the PLG-AN, two less, it appears that you can assign these three 
> controllers from within AN1xedit and still leave 1-4 free.
> 
> On the CS6X you can assign ONE parameter--that controlled by 
> AC1. You cannot control the other three from the synth menu 
> system.
> 
> On the CS6X, there are two user definable knobs that one uses 
> for each voice--they can be assigned freely. They default to #16 
> and 17. So what I did was assign Ac1, for example, to #16 and 
> set the corresponding AC in AN1xedit to #16 as well and then set 
> a parameter. It did not work.
> 
> But maybe I overlooked something simple.....
> 
> 
> -DC

Hi DC,

>>
I also neglected to mention something else. Assigning a controller 
and corresponding parameter for AC1 from the CS6X menu system works 
fine, even with the default control number of knob 1 (haven't tried 
knob 2 yet), however this had no effect when I tried it the other way 
around, from AN1Xedit to the CS6x.
<<

I am not sure what you mean when you say "from AN1Xedit to the CS6x". As
I said in my previous email, I think the setup on the actual keyboard
front panel is assigning AC1 to the XG part easy parameters (i.e. not
the AN Matrix!).

>>
the CS6X has 6 control sets for its built-in tone 
generator and 4 sets, called AC 1-4, for the plg-an (Gary, are these 
correspond to the first four controllers in the Matrix? I am assuming 
they do).
<<

I suspect not! I think these will be applying to AC1 & AC2 of the XG
part hosting for the AN board. i.e. the easy edit offset parameters.

>>
You can assign AC1's controller (on the Cs6x) and a 
corresponding parameter (in the an board) from the CS6X menu system. 
The controller assignment is found in the CS6X utility menu and the 
parameter is set by voice, in the edit menu. You can set control 
numbers for AC2-4 in the voice, but you cannot assign parameters for 
them from the CS6X menu system.
<<

I guess that you cannot setup AC3-4 because the XG hosting part only
provides two AC controller assignments. The CS6x is a general purpose
modular plugin card host. I suspect the additional ACs are for other MSP
cards that do have 4 assignable controllers (tho I am not sure which
boards they may be).

>>
SO from the CS6x I have been able assign one controller (knob 1 so 
far), the pb, mod wheel, and ribbon (after modifying voice in 
AN1xedit). I haven't behad any success assigning any further 
controllers.
<,

By default the PC and MOD wheels already have assigned functions for AN
voices (Pitch bend +/-2 semitones and scene morph respectively). However
if you have managed to assign the ribbon, I guess you must have done
this via the matrix. If that works then any other controller should
work.

Regards

Gary Gregson

Email:gary@...
http://www.yme.co.uk/yme

> By default the PC and MOD wheels already have assigned functions 
for AN
> voices (Pitch bend +/-2 semitones and scene morph respectively). 
However
> if you have managed to assign the ribbon, I guess you must have done
> this via the matrix. If that works then any other controller should
> work.

That's exactly the problem, it doesn't work--or, at least, I haven't 
been able to get it to work. This is what I meant when I said "from 
An1xedit to the CS6x"--by assigning parameters in the matrix. I can 
do this with the mod wheel etc--assign additional parameters from the 
matrix to those set at default. But I can not set other controllers 
to parameters from within the matrix--such as knob 1 (which I can 
assign from the CS6X itself).

I haven't fully grasped the point you are making about XG. I'm going 
to spend the weekend looking at the manuals and playing with the 
synth and will try to get up to speed.

Thanks again,

-DC