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-- Xmod --

-- Xmod --

2001-10-08 by Andrea TONI

Hello,


in strict and easy term Xmod is FM between 2 osc 
available in many old analogues of 70s/80s (monopoly, JX10 etc)

John Chowning Yamaha's FM has stretched the basic concept 
to more then just 2 OSC and made it more complex 
 
have a look at this VERY nice articles

http://www.sospubs.co.uk/sos/apr00/articles/synthsecrets.htm
http://www.sospubs.co.uk/sos/may00/articles/synth.htm

and check also the previous ones (I think till part 23 are free)

save them all as HTMLs , print and study :-)))) 

Regards

-------------------------------------ENV1-----ENV2---ENV3--------------
Andrea TONI                          VCO1 \    |      |
Solar System and Space               VCO2-->--VCF--->VCA---->DUCATI 996 
Science Division (SO)                VCO3 /    |      | 
-------------------------------------LFO1-----LFO2---LFO3--------------
email: Andrea.Toni@...           http://solarsystem.estec.esa.nl

Re: -- Xmod --

2001-10-08 by Thomas

--- In AN1x-list@y..., "Andrea TONI" <Andrea.Toni@e...> wrote:
  
> have a look at this VERY nice articles
> 
> http://www.sospubs.co.uk/sos/apr00/articles/synthsecrets.htm
> http://www.sospubs.co.uk/sos/may00/articles/synth.htm

Thank you, those ARE very nice, but....i am not a mathematic student, 
i am a hobby musician...So please can someone explain what´s the 
difference between the X-Mod of the AN200/PLG150AN and the FM inside 
the AN1x?

--Tom

Re: [AN1x-list] Re: -- Xmod --

2001-10-08 by Bastiaan van de Werk

Cross mudolation results in extra frequecies being added to a signal ...i think if you crossmod 200 & 500 hz you get  'extra'  frequencies at 300 and 700 hz... (or was it the sum and the product? it's either that or the sum and the difference...) I am not sure how exactly these signal modify eachother tho. 

whilst FM is the modulation of the frequency of a osc at such a high rate that instead of regular pitch modulation the shape of the character of the oscillator gets changed. So instead of the tone going up and down you hear this metallic sound.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Thomas 
  To: AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, October 08, 2001 8:04 PM
  Subject: [AN1x-list] Re: -- Xmod --


  --- In AN1x-list@y..., "Andrea TONI" <Andrea.Toni@e...> wrote:
    
  > have a look at this VERY nice articles
  > 
  > http://www.sospubs.co.uk/sos/apr00/articles/synthsecrets.htm
  > http://www.sospubs.co.uk/sos/may00/articles/synth.htm

  Thank you, those ARE very nice, but....i am not a mathematic student, 
  i am a hobby musician...So please can someone explain what´s the 
  difference between the X-Mod of the AN200/PLG150AN and the FM inside 
  the AN1x?

  --Tom


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [AN1x-list] Re: -- Xmod --

2001-10-08 by Gary Gregson

Tome wrote:

>>
So please can someone explain what´s the 
difference between the X-Mod of the AN200/PLG150AN and the FM inside 
the AN1x?
<<

Ok, I'll try.

The AN engine algorithm provides two ways of modulating one oscillator
with another. 

1) You can perform FM, where the wave of one oscillator (called the
modulator) periodically changes the pitch or frequency of another
oscillator (called the carrier). In both the AN1x and PLG150AN, VCO1 is
the carrier and we have a whole bunch of sources for the modulator
(including VCO2). Furthermore VCO1 can be split into a pair of
oscillators and you can select whether either one or both of these use
FM.

2) You can perform Sync modulation. In this case the wave of one
oscillator (master) is used to reset the wave of a second oscillator
(slave). If the two oscillators are operating at different frequencies,
this has the effect of chopping up the output into complex waveforms.
(Generally the master determines the output pitch and the slave
determines the timbre/tone). In the An1x we can use this type of
modulation only 'within' VCO1. i.e. VCO1 actually contains two
oscillators that can be arranged in a master/slave arrangement. However
in the PLG150AN, you can also choose VCO2 as a master to provide sync
modulation to VCO1. This allows for much more complex cross modulation
between the two VCOs than standard FM. Therefore the PLG150AN (and
AN200) are capable of producing more complex sounds than the AN1x.  

I hope that clarifies the situation ;-)


Regards

Gary Gregson

Email:gary@...
http://www.yme.co.uk/yme

Re: -- Xmod --

2001-10-09 by Thomas

--- In AN1x-list@y..., "Gary Gregson" <gary@y...> wrote:
> >Tome wrote:
> >So please can someone explain what´s the 
> >difference ...
> Ok, I'll try.
[...long nice explanation...]
 
Thank you very much, that indeed helped. Thank you also to Baastian. 
It´s great to have you guys on the list!

--Tom

Re: [AN1x-list] Re: -- Xmod --

2001-10-09 by Patrik Rydberg

Eh, I would say that what you described sounds like amplitude modulation...

/Patrik

----
The primary purpose of wings is to prevent flight


----- Original Message -----
From: "Bastiaan van de Werk" <bazziman@...>
To: <AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2001 9:09 PM
Subject: Re: [AN1x-list] Re: -- Xmod --


> Cross mudolation results in extra frequecies being added to a signal ...i
think if you crossmod 200 & 500 hz you get  'extra'  frequencies at 300 and
700 hz... (or was it the sum and the product? it's either that or the sum
and the difference...) I am not sure how exactly these signal modify
eachother tho.
>
> whilst FM is the modulation of the frequency of a osc at such a high rate
that instead of regular pitch modulation the shape of the character of the
oscillator gets changed. So instead of the tone going up and down you hear
this metallic sound.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Thomas
>   To: AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Monday, October 08, 2001 8:04 PM
>   Subject: [AN1x-list] Re: -- Xmod --
>
>
>   --- In AN1x-list@y..., "Andrea TONI" <Andrea.Toni@e...> wrote:
>
>   > have a look at this VERY nice articles
>   >
>   > http://www.sospubs.co.uk/sos/apr00/articles/synthsecrets.htm
>   > http://www.sospubs.co.uk/sos/may00/articles/synth.htm
>
>   Thank you, those ARE very nice, but....i am not a mathematic student,
>   i am a hobby musician...So please can someone explain what\ufffds the
>   difference between the X-Mod of the AN200/PLG150AN and the FM inside
>   the AN1x?
>
>   --Tom
>
>
>         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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Re: [AN1x-list] Re: -- Xmod --

2001-10-09 by Bastiaan van de Werk

No I wasn't. I clearly talked about Pitch and Frequency...amp modulation changes the volume (amplitude) of an osc. That's the diff between temolo and vibrato.

Anyway normally modulating the freq / pitch of an osc is done bij a regular LFO; you can hear the pitch of a note shift up and down periodically (depending on the shape, frequency of the LFO and the amount of modulation used)..the LFO is of a relative long wavelength compared to the audible DCO/VCO. The LFO itself cannot be heard: only it's modulating effect on the audible DCO/VCO. If instead of an LFO you use DCO/VCO (in other words a fast osc.) instead of aubibly modulating the pitch it start 'reshaping' the shape of the cycles....try and picture this with a square modulating a saw or sine.  The square has...say about 1.5 times the shape of the other osc...it gets a bit hard to imagine when more osc's are used in different configurations but I gues you get the picture: by modulation the signal this way you can effectively add extra frequencies (and harmonics) to the osc's by rapidly, dynamically 'moulding' it's shape.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Patrik Rydberg 
  To: AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2001 11:09 AM
  Subject: Re: [AN1x-list] Re: -- Xmod --


  Eh, I would say that what you described sounds like amplitude modulation...

  /Patrik

  ----
  The primary purpose of wings is to prevent flight


  ----- Original Message -----
  From: "Bastiaan van de Werk" <bazziman@hotmail.com>
  To: <AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com>
  Sent: Monday, October 08, 2001 9:09 PM
  Subject: Re: [AN1x-list] Re: -- Xmod --


  > Cross mudolation results in extra frequecies being added to a signal ...i
  think if you crossmod 200 & 500 hz you get  'extra'  frequencies at 300 and
  700 hz... (or was it the sum and the product? it's either that or the sum
  and the difference...) I am not sure how exactly these signal modify
  eachother tho.
  >
  > whilst FM is the modulation of the frequency of a osc at such a high rate
  that instead of regular pitch modulation the shape of the character of the
  oscillator gets changed. So instead of the tone going up and down you hear
  this metallic sound.
  >
  >   ----- Original Message -----
  >   From: Thomas
  >   To: AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com
  >   Sent: Monday, October 08, 2001 8:04 PM
  >   Subject: [AN1x-list] Re: -- Xmod --
  >
  >
  >   --- In AN1x-list@y..., "Andrea TONI" <Andrea.Toni@e...> wrote:
  >
  >   > have a look at this VERY nice articles
  >   >
  >   > http://www.sospubs.co.uk/sos/apr00/articles/synthsecrets.htm
  >   > http://www.sospubs.co.uk/sos/may00/articles/synth.htm
  >
  >   Thank you, those ARE very nice, but....i am not a mathematic student,
  >   i am a hobby musician...So please can someone explain what´s the
  >   difference between the X-Mod of the AN200/PLG150AN and the FM inside
  >   the AN1x?
  >
  >   --Tom
  >
  >
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [AN1x-list] Re: -- Xmod --

2001-10-09 by Patrik Rydberg

Perhaps I should have been a bit clearer. The formula you described, adding
"sidebands" att the sum and the difference of the two main osc frequencys.
That is exactly what amplitude modulation does. Frequency modulation adds an
(in theory) infinite amount of sidebands.

/Patrik

----
The primary purpose of wings is to prevent flight



----- Original Message -----
From: "Bastiaan van de Werk" <bazziman@...>
To: <AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2001 11:53 AM
Subject: Re: [AN1x-list] Re: -- Xmod --


> No I wasn't. I clearly talked about Pitch and Frequency...amp modulation
changes the volume (amplitude) of an osc. That's the diff between temolo and
vibrato.
>
> Anyway normally modulating the freq / pitch of an osc is done bij a
regular LFO; you can hear the pitch of a note shift up and down periodically
(depending on the shape, frequency of the LFO and the amount of modulation
used)..the LFO is of a relative long wavelength compared to the audible
DCO/VCO. The LFO itself cannot be heard: only it's modulating effect on the
audible DCO/VCO. If instead of an LFO you use DCO/VCO (in other words a fast
osc.) instead of aubibly modulating the pitch it start 'reshaping' the shape
of the cycles....try and picture this with a square modulating a saw or
sine.  The square has...say about 1.5 times the shape of the other osc...it
gets a bit hard to imagine when more osc's are used in different
configurations but I gues you get the picture: by modulation the signal this
way you can effectively add extra frequencies (and harmonics) to the osc's
by rapidly, dynamically 'moulding' it's shape.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Patrik Rydberg
>   To: AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2001 11:09 AM
>   Subject: Re: [AN1x-list] Re: -- Xmod --
>
>
>   Eh, I would say that what you described sounds like amplitude
modulation...
>
>   /Patrik
>
>   ----
>   The primary purpose of wings is to prevent flight
>
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: "Bastiaan van de Werk" <bazziman@...>
>   To: <AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com>
>   Sent: Monday, October 08, 2001 9:09 PM
>   Subject: Re: [AN1x-list] Re: -- Xmod --
>
>
>   > Cross mudolation results in extra frequecies being added to a signal
...i
>   think if you crossmod 200 & 500 hz you get  'extra'  frequencies at 300
and
>   700 hz... (or was it the sum and the product? it's either that or the
sum
>   and the difference...) I am not sure how exactly these signal modify
>   eachother tho.
>   >
>   > whilst FM is the modulation of the frequency of a osc at such a high
rate
>   that instead of regular pitch modulation the shape of the character of
the
>   oscillator gets changed. So instead of the tone going up and down you
hear
>   this metallic sound.
>   >
>   >   ----- Original Message -----
>   >   From: Thomas
>   >   To: AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com
>   >   Sent: Monday, October 08, 2001 8:04 PM
>   >   Subject: [AN1x-list] Re: -- Xmod --
>   >
>   >
>   >   --- In AN1x-list@y..., "Andrea TONI" <Andrea.Toni@e...> wrote:
>   >
>   >   > have a look at this VERY nice articles
>   >   >
>   >   > http://www.sospubs.co.uk/sos/apr00/articles/synthsecrets.htm
>   >   > http://www.sospubs.co.uk/sos/may00/articles/synth.htm
>   >
>   >   Thank you, those ARE very nice, but....i am not a mathematic
student,
>   >   i am a hobby musician...So please can someone explain what\ufffds the
>   >   difference between the X-Mod of the AN200/PLG150AN and the FM inside
>   >   the AN1x?
>   >
>   >   --Tom
>   >
>   >
>   >         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>   >               ADVERTISEMENT
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
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>   >
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>   >
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>   >
>   >
>   >
>   > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>   >
>   >
>   >
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http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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Re: [AN1x-list] Re: -- Xmod --

2001-10-09 by Bastiaan van de Werk

Ok...i actually described Ringmodulation...which is indead 'highspeed' amp. modulation...i presumed Ring and Cross modulation are the same algorithms (well actually I wrote it all from the top of my head instead)...RingMod (and presumably crossMod) are what FM is to LFO-pitchmod (vibrato)...at very high frequencies you can hear actually hear new timbres being created instead of the volume of the sound 'trembling'...now I start wondering tho wether RIngMod and X-Mod are the same or not....somebody please help us..
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Patrik Rydberg 
  To: AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2001 12:04 PM
  Subject: Re: [AN1x-list] Re: -- Xmod --


  Perhaps I should have been a bit clearer. The formula you described, adding
  "sidebands" att the sum and the difference of the two main osc frequencys.
  That is exactly what amplitude modulation does. Frequency modulation adds an
  (in theory) infinite amount of sidebands.

  /Patrik

  ----
  The primary purpose of wings is to prevent flight



  ----- Original Message -----
  From: "Bastiaan van de Werk" <bazziman@hotmail.com>
  To: <AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com>
  Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2001 11:53 AM
  Subject: Re: [AN1x-list] Re: -- Xmod --


  > No I wasn't. I clearly talked about Pitch and Frequency...amp modulation
  changes the volume (amplitude) of an osc. That's the diff between temolo and
  vibrato.
  >
  > Anyway normally modulating the freq / pitch of an osc is done bij a
  regular LFO; you can hear the pitch of a note shift up and down periodically
  (depending on the shape, frequency of the LFO and the amount of modulation
  used)..the LFO is of a relative long wavelength compared to the audible
  DCO/VCO. The LFO itself cannot be heard: only it's modulating effect on the
  audible DCO/VCO. If instead of an LFO you use DCO/VCO (in other words a fast
  osc.) instead of aubibly modulating the pitch it start 'reshaping' the shape
  of the cycles....try and picture this with a square modulating a saw or
  sine.  The square has...say about 1.5 times the shape of the other osc...it
  gets a bit hard to imagine when more osc's are used in different
  configurations but I gues you get the picture: by modulation the signal this
  way you can effectively add extra frequencies (and harmonics) to the osc's
  by rapidly, dynamically 'moulding' it's shape.
  >
  > ----- Original Message -----
  >   From: Patrik Rydberg
  >   To: AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com
  >   Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2001 11:09 AM
  >   Subject: Re: [AN1x-list] Re: -- Xmod --
  >
  >
  >   Eh, I would say that what you described sounds like amplitude
  modulation...
  >
  >   /Patrik
  >
  >   ----
  >   The primary purpose of wings is to prevent flight
  >
  >
  >   ----- Original Message -----
  >   From: "Bastiaan van de Werk" <bazziman@hotmail.com>
  >   To: <AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com>
  >   Sent: Monday, October 08, 2001 9:09 PM
  >   Subject: Re: [AN1x-list] Re: -- Xmod --
  >
  >
  >   > Cross mudolation results in extra frequecies being added to a signal
  ...i
  >   think if you crossmod 200 & 500 hz you get  'extra'  frequencies at 300
  and
  >   700 hz... (or was it the sum and the product? it's either that or the
  sum
  >   and the difference...) I am not sure how exactly these signal modify
  >   eachother tho.
  >   >
  >   > whilst FM is the modulation of the frequency of a osc at such a high
  rate
  >   that instead of regular pitch modulation the shape of the character of
  the
  >   oscillator gets changed. So instead of the tone going up and down you
  hear
  >   this metallic sound.
  >   >
  >   >   ----- Original Message -----
  >   >   From: Thomas
  >   >   To: AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com
  >   >   Sent: Monday, October 08, 2001 8:04 PM
  >   >   Subject: [AN1x-list] Re: -- Xmod --
  >   >
  >   >
  >   >   --- In AN1x-list@y..., "Andrea TONI" <Andrea.Toni@e...> wrote:
  >   >
  >   >   > have a look at this VERY nice articles
  >   >   >
  >   >   > http://www.sospubs.co.uk/sos/apr00/articles/synthsecrets.htm
  >   >   > http://www.sospubs.co.uk/sos/may00/articles/synth.htm
  >   >
  >   >   Thank you, those ARE very nice, but....i am not a mathematic
  student,
  >   >   i am a hobby musician...So please can someone explain what´s the
  >   >   difference between the X-Mod of the AN200/PLG150AN and the FM inside
  >   >   the AN1x?
  >   >
  >   >   --Tom
  >   >
  >   >
  >   >         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
  >   >               ADVERTISEMENT
  >   >
  >   >
  >   >
  >   >
  >   >   Community email addresses:
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  >   >     Subscribe:    AN1x-list-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
  >   >     Unsubscribe:  AN1x-list-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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  >   >
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Move to quarantaine

This moves the raw source file on disk only. The archive index is not changed automatically, so you still need to run a manual refresh afterward.