El mié, 10-11-2004 a las 11:54 -0600, jonesalley escribió:
-----I was expecting somebody to pull out the Mozart card with a flourish and an "aha!" Now that it's been done, let's look at the truth. Anybody ever listened to those extremely early compositions of Wolfie's? They suck. Curiously enough, they sound like they were written by a primary-school-aged child. The ONLY amazing thing about them was that they were COMPLETED compositions, stylistically and compositionally correct for the time, that were written by a very young person.
Ok, first of all I would like to say I'd really love to have the exact domain of english to express all my feelings and toughts about your message, but unfortunatelly I haven't , so I'll look coarse withouth really pretending. Well, there are in fact very good compositions from Mozart at that age, just a question of opinions, I believe. They are not "The four seasons", but some of them are very regarging musically. I challenge you to write better tunes and show them to us all. Really. (∗And∗ i didn't intended any "aha", I wrote my message most humble).
I also beg to differ that this is a stupid conversation. I am terribly tired of hearing first efforts paraded around as epic music that broadens the horizons of composition. IF you can find ONE first composition that qualifies as great music, I will be amazed, and that will only demonstrate what an exception to the rule it actually is. The Doors? Right, once again, none of those guys had written any songs before the band formed. Greg Lake and "Lucky Man?" First of all, "Lucky Man" is NOT a great composition. It is a VERY ordinary and non-innovative song. The only thing that made it into the musical icon it is today was Keith's 45-second improvisation at the end, which was not really intended to be a part of the song and was only placed there at the insistence of the producer. Once again, please read my original comments slowly. You have missed the entire point.
Well, as you may know (you, wise over wise men) Morrison was a poet with no musical habilities when he entered the doors, and he wrote many of the band best know tunes (take a look at the credits, please). "Lucky man" is NOT a innovative composition, just a nice tune that works for me and leaves me in a very good mood when I listen to it. Right, is not "Close to the Edge", but again i challenge you to write a better tune with your wonderful musical skills and try to do it better (and remember, that tune is from 1969, and I don't really like the Emerson solo much anyway). We are not talking about absolute classics, just good music. I read your original message and agreed with you in part, so I was not ready for this contemptuous tone. But you must understand you are not the owner of the absolute truth. What I said you is that there will be always good composers "from the beggining" and good composers after a long period of training. Just like there are people who understand complex maths at first explanation, and people who can't understand the concept after several explanations, do you got the idea?
And Nacho, please understand that I do not intend any personal attack on you or your songwriting abilities, but using the anecdotal evidence of your own composition is anything but compelling evidence. I grant NO CREDIBILITY to the opinions of friends, fans, and family members when it comes to original music performed in a local-band setting. If you play your song before an audience of utter strangers who have never heard it before and don't know anything about you and it receives great acclaim under those conditions, I'll be willing to listen to further debate, but I've been playing out long enough to know that the opinions of those friends, fans, and family members mean absolutely nothing. They would like just about anything you do that isn't utterly wretched and even then they are usually still pretty forgiving.
I NEVER play anything to my family and friends... they listen to Britney Spears and Alejandro Sanz, so they're not exactly ready for the music I compose. I have enough musical taste to know when I am proud of a composition and I consider its a good tune. Also, pub owners are not fans, they must get a good band to play in their bussiness if they want people to come again and consume. I have written lots of crap when I was starting to learn, but also some good ideas and tunes. Now I write less crap and more "good tunes" (to me and the audiences anyway), but you can help writing some crap now and having writen very good songs (or at least very promising ideas) when you were starting. Now, this is all MY OWN experience, I don't know yours, but I think you should think before stating dogmas.
I stand by my original point. It takes at least one hundred completely finished compositions before a writer of music comes up with anything worth listening to.
That's what i said that this was a stupid disscusion. You are not really discussing, just expounding, but your opinions is as respectable as mine, so please be a bit less pedantic, thanks.
Nacho.
PD: Don't bother answering... Im getting out of this list. This is not the kind of conversations I like to participate on a mellotronists list.