Mike Pinder's sound is very difficult to achieve because he changed the
internal preamp on his tron. Plus it was recorded though a HiWatt or
Marshall amp (which adds a great deal of color to the sound). You can hear
it on all their live recordings (He used Marshalls live). I use my own
samples (www.vintagekeyboardsounds.com) and have mixed a great deal of the
high freq out and added a lot of reverb and a bit of distortion to get the
Pinder sound. There is a little edge of distortion present (from the
Marshall) that adds to the color.
By the way, where do you live on the West Coast? I live in Long Beach.
From:
Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com [mailto:
Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of fourtytwominds
Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 4:39 PM
To:
Mellotronists@yahoogroups.comSubject: [Mellotronists] Hello to all. Questions about mixing.
Hello all.
My name is Sean Lowrie. Sadly I do not own a 'tron, just the M-Tron samples;
a MkVI is on my wish list.
I've had the samples for about a year and a half and I'm still trying to
come up with the correct signal handling and mixing to get the megalithic
Moody Blues and King Crimson sounds I'm used to.
Last week I made a breakthrough. I'm currently splitting the output and
taking that into to separate unbalanced inputs on my small multitrack mixer.
First channel I leave dry, cut the low and high, and boost the mid range.
The second channel I send all the signal to the internal effects unit on
this board for reverb. (It's an Alesis board and I'm fairly happy with their
electronic reverb circuitry, which even creates slightly different results
for left and right channels) I have this signal boosted in lows and highs
but scooped in the mid range: an approximate mirror of the dry channel
settings. On my board L is 80Hz, M is 2.5kHz, and H is 12kHz. I'm getting
fairly close to the sound I want, fairly close indeed, but I'm not there. I
finally have the presence and in general a megalithic quality in sound.
What I don't have is the chocolate-smooth sound that I'm used to out of King
Crimson. I'm thinking specifically the studio tracks "Lament" and "The Night
Watch" from the 1974 album Starless and Bible Black. When I listen to these
tracks I notice that the sound has more... for lack of a better term
"breath." The sound seems to be of much higher fidelity than I'm used to out
of the Mellotron while still retaining the distinctive Mellotron sound.
Through research on the internet I'm sure these tracks were studio recorded
on two well maintained M400s. I've tried every sort of search I can imagine
in Google, I've been hitting the King Crimson fan sites hoping for
information. I've learned that RF scuttled an entire 2009 KC West Coast USA
tour, that's where I live, over some hurt feelings or something, it's not
clear what, but nothing on their mixing techniques.
I'm listening to The Night Watch as I'm writing this long question. The
sound is not any more present, and actually less megalithic than what I
have, but it has time-CLARITY (not just a boost in the 4kHz area) that I
cannot seem to achieve, along with a slight bit of chorus type phasing I
think.
On the front of the Moody Blues sound, I can't seem to get my sound as
sleepy as Mike Pinder can. I understand his MkII he modified himself, but to
my understanding he only removed the pre-amp circuit that boosted the signal
at 10kHz. The "tone" knob on M-Tron, as on the real deal (to my
understanding) is also at 10kHz and so I keep that real low, around
9'o'clock...
The sound still isn't there. Infact, it seems too dull and smeared. I pulled
out Days of Future Passed and listened to Tuesday Afternoon. I'm fairly sure
the lead is "Trumpets and Trombones" doubled with "MkII Violins" and the
harmony is "MkII Brass" again doubled with the violins. However, I'm
noticing that the note attacks on the record have more of a harsh garbled
attack, and my samples actually sound more like the instruments sampled than
Mr. Pinder's MkII does. If it's a matter of tape cutting I'm sure I can't do
anything about it.
But still that's not entirely the whole problem. I'm still not getting the
chocolate-smooth sound that is also hollow and graceful. I asked Mr. Pinder
on his own forum, but that was nearly a year ago and I don't think he's
logged in to the forum in all this time. His right certainly to do so.
Doesn't solve my ignorance though...
Is it a matter of compression technique? Using a haphazard collection of all
digital equipment I don't have access to real-time compression, only after
the fact in Audacity and so I tend to avoid compression as it becomes too
much of guess-and-check work. Is there something else I'm missing out on?
When it comes to the violin sound I've taken the care to exclusively use
what M-Tron names "MkII Vintage Violins" which is by far the highest
fidelity version of that tape set the sample set has. It's REALLY good.
Still, I know I'm missing out on something.
So, after 3 chapters worth of ranting (damn this is a loooooong question
I've got) I ask you all, you who are lucky enough to have and use a real
Mellotron (or those who have gotten really good at using the sample
software), for your expert opinions and advice. I've been banging my head
into a wall on this one and I've lost confidence that I'll get any further
than this on my own.
Thanks to you all so much, you deserve a cookie or dinner or something for
even reading through what has got to be one of the longest emails in the
last decade.
-Sean Lowrie
fourtytwominds@... <mailto:fourtytwominds%40yahoo.com>