Yamaha CS80

I'll be happy to help out, but I won't be able to get to it until much later
tonight or possibly tomorrow. If someone else wants to step in before that,
then fine by me too. But I'm stuck at work here now and won't be near my CS
until later this evening.

-Tim S.
<Minneapolis>


Quoting Max Fazio <faxiomas@...>:

> Hi
> To David and anyone who can help : is anybody able to send me a sample of the
> pure square from a whatever poly CS at low or very low pitch? I'd like to
> take some measurements.
> Thanks for your help
> Max

----- Original Message -----

From: timsks@...

To: yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 2:58 PM

Subject: Re: [yamahacs80] Square wave

I'll be happy to help out, but I won't be able to get to it until much later
tonight or possibly tomorrow. If someone else wants to step in before that,
then fine by me too. But I'm stuck at work here now and won't be near my CS
until later this evening.

-Tim S.
<Minneapolis>


Quoting Max Fazio <faxiomas@...>:

> Hi
> To David and anyone who can help : is anybody able to send me a sample of the
> pure square from a whatever poly CS at low or very low pitch? I'd like to
> take some measurements.
> Thanks for your help
> Max

cool, would somebody please be so kind and send it to me, too?
thanks
Am 01.12.2005 um 17:34 schrieb Max Fazio:

> Thank you so much ! Correctly my friend Laurie wrote me that the audio
> result of the pure wave could be heavily affected by the actual
> settings of the filters' trimmers into each M-board.I'm aware of it
> and I will do my experience having the final results on a statistical
> shape.
> I recently analysed the sine wave into the ring modulator and ended up
> with some correct datas ( or at least as less approximated as I could
> ).
> Well, the sine wave I can hear into the modulation wave ( and in the
> PWM , SubOsc and within Chorus LFOs) isn't a plain sine: it consists
> of a "wrong" sine wave with a single harmonic tuned 2oct upper and
> with 4% of the total amplitude, I was able to reproduce it digitally
> with a common FFT generator : this implies the fact that , within
> ringmodulation there is something like a "hidden" sine which modulates
> the signal togheter with the fundamental at two octaves
> upper....that's why its sound is SO rich!!
> Thx again for your help!
> Max
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: timsks@...
>> To: yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com
>> Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 2:58 PM
>> Subject: Re: [yamahacs80] Square wave
>>
>> I'll be happy to help out, but I won't be able to get to it until
>> much later
>> tonight or possibly tomorrow. If someone else wants to step in before
>> that,
>> then fine by me too. But I'm stuck at work here now and won't be near
>> my CS
>> until later this evening.
>>
>> -Tim S.
>> <Minneapolis>
>>
>>
>> Quoting Max Fazio <faxiomas@...>:
>>
>> > Hi
>> > To David and anyone who can help : is anybody able to send me a
>> sample of the
>> > pure square from a whatever poly CS at low or very low pitch? I'd
>> like to
>> > take some measurements.
>> > Thanks for your help
>> > Max
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>>
>> ▪ Visit your group "yamahacs80" on the web.
>>
>> ▪ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>> yamahacs80-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>
>> ▪ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
>> Service.
>>
>>

Okay.. to Max and ohesh (in Germany),

I have sampled the square wave output from my CS80 into a pair of .WAV files, sampled at 192,000 khz 32-bit resolution.

The first file is a ten-second recording of the lowest "C" at the 16' setting, the lowest ordinary note you can play on the CS.
The second file is about a five-second sample made after sweeping the pitch down on the ribbon controller to where it sounds like discrete clicks.
Filters were wide open, no modulation or outside effects were used.

Looking at these in my waveform display they do not look much like a square wave at all! I'm attaching a small screenshot of the waveform I see. Hopefully it will come through to the group. Do you want me to e-mail these files to you directly? These .WAV files weigh in at 7.5 MB and 4.5 MB respectively. I also combined them into a Zip archive which is about 8.8 MB for the two of them together. I don't want to overwhelm anyone's mailbox with large attachments. The other alternative is I could post them to an FTP location where they could be grabbed at your own leisure. Please let me know how I can best get these files to you.

-Tim S.
<Minneapolis>

Max Fazio wrote:

Thank you so much ! Correctly my friend Laurie wrote me that the audio result of the pure wave could be heavily affected by the actual settings of the filters' trimmers into each M-board.I'm aware of it and I will do my experience having the final results on a statistical shape.

I recently analysed the sine wave into the ring modulator and ended up with some correct datas ( or at least as less approximated as I could ).

Well, the sine wave I can hear into the modulation wave ( and in the PWM , SubOsc and within Chorus LFOs) isn't a plain sine: it consists of a "wrong" sine wave with a single harmonic tuned 2oct upper and with 4% of the total amplitude, I was able to reproduce it digitally with a common FFT generator : this implies the fact that , within ringmodulation there is something like a "hidden" sine which modulates the signal togheter with the fundamental at two octaves upper....that's why its sound is SO rich!!

Thx again for your help!

Max

----- Original Message -----

From: Tim Siefkes

To: yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 4:25 AM

Subject: Re: [yamahacs80] Square wave

Okay.. to Max and ohesh (in Germany),

I have sampled the square wave output from my CS80 into a pair of .WAV files, sampled at 192,000 khz 32-bit resolution.

The first file is a ten-second recording of the lowest "C" at the 16' setting, the lowest ordinary note you can play on the CS.
The second file is about a five-second sample made after sweeping the pitch down on the ribbon controller to where it sounds like discrete clicks.
Filters were wide open, no modulation or outside effects were used.

Looking at these in my waveform display they do not look much like a square wave at all! I'm attaching a small screenshot of the waveform I see. Hopefully it will come through to the group. Do you want me to e-mail these files to you directly? These .WAV files weigh in at 7.5 MB and 4.5 MB respectively. I also combined them into a Zip archive which is about 8.8 MB for the two of them together. I don't want to overwhelm anyone's mailbox with large attachments. The other alternative is I could post them to an FTP location where they could be grabbed at your own leisure. Please let me know how I can best get these files to you.

-Tim S.
<Minneapolis>

Max Fazio wrote:

Thank you so much ! Correctly my friend Laurie wrote me that the audio result of the pure wave could be heavily affected by the actual settings of the filters' trimmers into each M-board.I'm aware of it and I will do my experience having the final results on a statistical shape.

I recently analysed the sine wave into the ring modulator and ended up with some correct datas ( or at least as less approximated as I could ).

Well, the sine wave I can hear into the modulation wave ( and in the PWM , SubOsc and within Chorus LFOs) isn't a plain sine: it consists of a "wrong" sine wave with a single harmonic tuned 2oct upper and with 4% of the total amplitude, I was able to reproduce it digitally with a common FFT generator : this implies the fact that , within ringmodulation there is something like a "hidden" sine which modulates the signal togheter with the fundamental at two octaves upper....that's why its sound is SO rich!!

Thx again for your help!

Max

----- Original Message -----

From: Max Fazio

To: yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 9:57 AM

Subject: Re: [yamahacs80] Square wave

Tim !You did a great job by making these samples!

I achieved similar results with a sample I grabbed from

http://personal.inet.fi/private/matador/cs-50_square.mp3

(44.1KHz, 16bit)

----- Original Message -----

From: Wavecomputer360

To: yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 10:11 AM

Subject: Re: [yamahacs80] Square wave

Hi folks,

don´t get me wrong but would it be possible not to send huge attachments? My modem needs ages to download something I don´t really need... :-/ Could you exchange these mails priavtely, please?

Thanks for your understanding, regards,

Stephen.

"Ambition makes you look pretty ugly." (Thom Yorke/Radiohead -- "Paranoid Android")

"Hoellenengel" -- new album by Stephen Parsick, street date October 1, 2005.

For info and audio, please check www.parsick.com

Coming soon: "oughtibridge", the new [´ramp] album, recorded live in England.

For info and audio, please visit the official [´ramp] website at www.doombient.com

WTB: "England´s Hidden Reverse" by David Keenan (Coil, Current93, Nurse With Wound, David Tibet).

----- Original Message -----

From: Max Fazio

To: yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 9:57 AM

Subject: Re: [yamahacs80] Square wave

Tim !You did a great job by making these samples!

I achieved similar results with a sample I grabbed from

http://personal.inet.fi/private/matador/cs-50_square.mp3

(44.1KHz, 16bit)

It was interesting making these samples... as while I was setting up the synth for doing it, I realized I must have not really listened that hard to the pure sound before. I mean, I know what a square wave "ought to" sound like from my work with various Arp and Moog modules... so when it came time to get a clean square wave from the CS, I had to keep checking my patch layout because I felt I could really hear another audio component in there as well. This corresponds to your previous comment about the "Hidden" sine wave component contributing to the rich sound. The pictures of the wave shape produced seems to confirm this already. My ARPs never sounded so rich on just a raw, unfiltered square wave.

I've already uploaded these sample files to my company's FTP site. (I tried going to my own personal FTP space but these files put me over my allocation limit so I can't use that). Let me see what I can do about getting you some sort of access password you can use to grab these.

And apologies too to Stephen for the previous jpg attachment. I'm VERY sensitive to unsolicited attachments in e-mail and try never to use them. This one was only 28k in size so I hope it didn't cause too many problems for you.

-Tim S.
<Minneapolis>

Max Fazio wrote:

Tim !You did a great job by making these samples!

I achieved similar results with a sample I grabbed from

http://personal.inet.fi/private/matador/cs-50_square.mp3

(44.1KHz, 16bit)

Look at the wave. Never seen such a strange square ( but is THIS a square ????). See below; anyway I would be extremely glad to work on your samples but my mailbox can't bear such attachments so I think it could be better if you can actually manage an FTP folder;-)

Thx again!!!

M

----- Original Message -----

From: Tim Siefkes

To: yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 11:43 AM

Subject: Re: [yamahacs80] Square wave

It was interesting making these samples... as while I was setting up the synth for doing it, I realized I must have not really listened that hard to the pure sound before. I mean, I know what a square wave "ought to" sound like from my work with various Arp and Moog modules... so when it came time to get a clean square wave from the CS, I had to keep checking my patch layout because I felt I could really hear another audio component in there as well. This corresponds to your previous comment about the "Hidden" sine wave component contributing to the rich sound. The pictures of the wave shape produced seems to confirm this already. My ARPs never sounded so rich on just a raw, unfiltered square wave.

I've already uploaded these sample files to my company's FTP site. (I tried going to my own personal FTP space but these files put me over my allocation limit so I can't use that). Let me see what I can do about getting you some sort of access password you can use to grab these.

And apologies too to Stephen for the previous jpg attachment. I'm VERY sensitive to unsolicited attachments in e-mail and try never to use them. This one was only 28k in size so I hope it didn't cause too many problems for you.

-Tim S.
<Minneapolis>

Max Fazio wrote:

Tim !You did a great job by making these samples!

I achieved similar results with a sample I grabbed from

http://personal.inet.fi/private/matador/cs-50_square.mp3

(44.1KHz, 16bit)

Look at the wave. Never seen such a strange square ( but is THIS a square ????). See below; anyway I would be extremely glad to work on your samples but my mailbox can't bear such attachments so I think it could be better if you can actually manage an FTP folder;-)

Thx again!!!

M

All oscillators on a CS-80 start out as an inverted sawtooth waveform....then gets processed through a waveshaping chip where it is split up and sent to different amplifiers including sine....there is a picture of this process on the hatch of the preset compartment.....inverted saw leaves pin 7 on IC8 and moves toWave Shape Converter IC9 pins 9, 12 and13.....(10,11 pw control)....pin 2 Sine out....pin 5 sawtooth out and pin7 is pulse/square out(I believe pin 3 is triangle out resent to12 and 14 to help shape square....)Noise is generated off of the M board

Max Fazio wrote:

Tim !You did a great job by making these samples!I achieved similar results with a sample I grabbed fromhttp://personal.inet.fi/private/matador/cs-50_square.mp3(44.1KHz, 16bit) Look at the wave. Never seen such a strange square ( but is THIS a square ????). See below; anyway I would be extremely glad to work on your samples but my mailbox can't bear such attachments so I think it could be better if you can actually manage an FTP folder;-)Thx again!!!M

----- Original Message -----

From: Tim Siefkes

To: yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 4:25 AM

Subject: Re: [yamahacs80] Square wave

Okay.. to Max and ohesh (in Germany),

I have sampled the square wave output from my CS80 into a pair of .WAV files, sampled at 192,000 khz 32-bit resolution.

The first file is a ten-second recording of the lowest "C" at the 16' setting, the lowest ordinary note you can play on the CS.
The second file is about a five-second sample made after sweeping the pitch down on the ribbon controller to where it sounds like discrete clicks.
Filters were wide open, no modulation or outside effects were used.

Looking at these in my waveform display they do not look much like a square wave at all! I'm attaching a small screenshot of the waveform I see. Hopefully it will come through to the group. Do you want me to e-mail these files to you directly? These .WAV files weigh in at 7.5 MB and 4.5 MB respectively. I also combined them into a Zip archive which is about 8.8 MB for the two of them together. I don't want to overwhelm anyone's mailbox with large attachments. The other alternative is I could post them to an FTP location where they could be grabbed at your own leisure. Please let me know how I can best get these files to you.

-Tim S.
<Minneapolis>

Max Fazio wrote:

Thank you so much ! Correctly my friend Laurie wrote me that the audio result of the pure wave could be heavily affected by the actual settings of the filters' trimmers into each M-board.I'm aware of it and I will do my experience having the final results on a statistical shape.I recently analysed the sine wave into the ring modulator and ended up with some correct datas ( or at least as less approximated as I could ).Well, the sine wave I can hear into the modulation wave ( and in the PWM , SubOsc and within Chorus LFOs) isn't a plain sine: it consists of a "wrong" sine wave with a single harmonic tuned 2oct upper and with 4% of the total amplitude, I was able to reproduce it digitally with a common FFT generator : this implies the fact that , within ringmodulation there is something like a "hidden" sine which modulates the signal togheter with the fundamental at two octaves upper....that's why its sound is SO rich!!Thx again for your help!Max

Speaking of that ....Does any one have a photo of the hatch picture....I lost my lid a while back......

laurie wrote:

All oscillators on a CS-80 start out as an inverted sawtooth waveform....then gets processed through a waveshaping chip where it is split up and sent to different amplifiers including sine....there is a picture of this process on the hatch of the preset compartment.....inverted saw leaves pin 7 on IC8 and moves toWave Shape Converter IC9 pins 9, 12 and13.....(10,11 pw control)....pin 2 Sine out....pin 5 sawtooth out and pin7 is pulse/square out(I believe pin 3 is triangle out resent to12 and 14 to help shape square....)Noise is generated off of the M board

Max Fazio wrote:

Tim !You did a great job by making these samples!I achieved similar results with a sample I grabbed fromhttp://personal.inet.fi/private/matador/cs-50_square.mp3(44.1KHz, 16bit) Look at the wave. Never seen such a strange square ( but is THIS a square ????). See below; anyway I would be extremely glad to work on your samples but my mailbox can't bear such attachments so I think it could be better if you can actually manage an FTP folder;-)Thx again!!!M

----- Original Message -----

From:Tim Siefkes

To: yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 4:25 AM

Subject: Re: [yamahacs80] Square wave

Okay.. to Max and ohesh (in Germany),

I have sampled the square wave output from my CS80 into a pair of .WAV files, sampled at 192,000 khz 32-bit resolution.

The first file is a ten-second recording of the lowest "C" at the 16' setting, the lowest ordinary note you can play on the CS.
The second file is about a five-second sample made after sweeping the pitch down on the ribbon controller to where it sounds like discrete clicks.
Filters were wide open, no modulation or outside effects were used.

Looking at these in my waveform display they do not look much like a square wave at all! I'm attaching a small screenshot of the waveform I see. Hopefully it will come through to the group. Do you want me to e-mail these files to you directly? These .WAV files weigh in at 7.5 MB and 4.5 MB respectively. I also combined them into a Zip archive which is about 8.8 MB for the two of them together. I don't want to overwhelm anyone's mailbox with large attachments. The other alternative is I could post them to an FTP location where they could be grabbed at your own leisure. Please let me know how I can best get these files to you.

-Tim S.
<Minneapolis>

Max Fazio wrote:

Thank you so much ! Correctly my friend Laurie wrote me that the audio result of the pure wave could be heavily affected by the actual settings of the filters' trimmers into each M-board.I'm aware of it and I will do my experience having the final results on a statistical shape.I recently analysed the sine wave into the ring modulator and ended up with some correct datas ( or at least as less approximated as I could ).Well, the sine wave I can hear into the modulation wave ( and in the PWM , SubOsc and within Chorus LFOs) isn't a plain sine: it consists of a "wrong" sine wave with a single harmonic tuned 2oct upper and with 4% of the total amplitude, I was able to reproduce it digitally with a common FFT generator : this implies the fact that , within ringmodulation there is something like a "hidden" sine which modulates the signal togheter with the fundamental at two octaves upper....that's why its sound is SO rich!!Thx again for your help!Max

----- Original Message -----

From: Wavecomputer360

To: yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 2:57 PM

Subject: Re: [yamahacs80] Square wave

Oh please, what´s so f*****g difficult about sending these attachments privately?! I was asking politely, and Max understood (thanks, Max), but others apparently didn´t bother to read.

Isn´t there a rule not to send attachments to the mailing list?

Stephen

____________________________________________________________________

"Ambition makes you look pretty ugly." (Thom Yorke/Radiohead -- "Paranoid Android")

"Hoellenengel" -- new album by Stephen Parsick, street date October 1, 2005.

For info and audio, please check www.parsick.com

It´s out: "oughtibridge", the new [´ramp] album, recorded live in England.

For info and audio, please visit the official [´ramp] website at www.doombient.com

WTB: "England´s Hidden Reverse" by David Keenan (Coil, Current93, Nurse With Wound, David Tibet).

Laurie
The basic sawtooth form pin 7 reaches a comparator in the Waveshaper chip, it is the comparator which leads the sawtooth to be shaped with only odd harmonics ( or a majority of them ) to reproduce the square.
M

----- Original Message -----
From: laurie
To: yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 1:55 PM
Subject: Re: [yamahacs80] Square wave


All oscillators on a CS-80 start out as an inverted sawtooth waveform....then gets processed through a waveshaping chip where it is split up and sent to different amplifiers including sine....there is a picture of this process on the hatch of the preset compartment.....inverted saw leaves pin 7 on IC8 and moves toWave Shape Converter IC9 pins 9, 12 and13.....(10,11 pw control)....pin 2 Sine out....pin 5 sawtooth out and pin7 is pulse/square out(I believe pin 3 is triangle out resent to12 and 14 to help shape square....)Noise is generated off of the M board
Max Fazio wrote:

Tim !You did a great job by making these samples!I achieved similar results with a sample I grabbed fromhttp://personal.inet.fi/private/matador/cs-50_square.mp3(44.1KHz, 16bit) Look at the wave. Never seen such a strange square ( but is THIS a square ????). See below; anyway I would be extremely glad to work on your samples but my mailbox can't bear such attachments so I think it could be better if you can actually manage an FTP folder;-)Thx again!!!M
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Siefkes
To: yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 4:25 AM
Subject: Re: [yamahacs80] Square wave
Okay.. to Max and ohesh (in Germany),
I have sampled the square wave output from my CS80 into a pair of .WAV files, sampled at 192,000 khz 32-bit resolution.

The first file is a ten-second recording of the lowest "C" at the 16' setting, the lowest ordinary note you can play on the CS.
The second file is about a five-second sample made after sweeping the pitch down on the ribbon controller to where it sounds like discrete clicks.
Filters were wide open, no modulation or outside effects were used.

Looking at these in my waveform display they do not look much like a square wave at all! I'm attaching a small screenshot of the waveform I see. Hopefully it will come through to the group. Do you want me to e-mail these files to you directly? These .WAV files weigh in at 7.5 MB and 4.5 MB respectively. I also combined them into a Zip archive which is about 8.8 MB for the two of them together. I don't want to overwhelm anyone's mailbox with large attachments. The other alternative is I could post them to an FTP location where they could be grabbed at your own leisure. Please let me know how I can best get these files to you.

-Tim S.
<Minneapolis>

Max Fazio wrote:

Thank you so much ! Correctly my friend Laurie wrote me that the audio result of the pure wave could be heavily affected by the actual settings of the filters' trimmers into each M-board.I'm aware of it and I will do my experience having the final results on a statistical shape.I recently analysed the sine wave into the ring modulator and ended up with some correct datas ( or at least as less approximated as I could ).Well, the sine wave I can hear into the modulation wave ( and in the PWM , SubOsc and within Chorus LFOs) isn't a plain sine: it consists of a "wrong" sine wave with a single harmonic tuned 2oct upper and with 4% of the total amplitude, I was able to reproduce it digitally with a common FFT generator : this implies the fact that , within ringmodulation there is something like a "hidden" sine which modulates the signal togheter with the fundamental at two octaves upper....that's why its sound is SO rich!!Thx again for your help!Max




--------------------------------------------------------------------------




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

If anyone else is interested, I have posted these samples to a
publically accessible FTP server. Please e-mail me off list for access
instructions and password. Max and "ohesch" have already received these
details in private email.

-Tim S.
<Minneapolis>


Max Fazio wrote:

> Tim
> What I could hear from the sample I heard shows ( trusting my ears! )
> there is a strong presence of one of the mid harmonics tuned some 2oct
> + 2/3 upper, anyway when I'll get the samples I'll analyse it with a
> resynthsizer in order to scope the harmonic content!


> Tim Siefkes wrote:
>
>> Okay.. to Max and ohesch (in Germany),
>>
>> I have sampled the square wave output from my CS80 into a pair of
>> .WAV files, sampled at 192,000 khz 32-bit resolution.
>>
>> The first file is a ten-second recording of the lowest "C" at the 16'
>> setting, the lowest ordinary note you can play on the CS.
>> The second file is about a five-second sample made after sweeping the
>> pitch down on the ribbon controller to where it sounds like discrete
>> clicks.
>> Filters were wide open, no modulation or outside effects were used.
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]