Synth-DIY Yahoo! Groups Archives

Thread

L'il help needed..

2018-01-23 by jonathan4051@...

Fellow CS-80 owners, with the power off, could you please do me a solid and measure the resistance between the +15V power rail on the card riser (the lower bar that the cards screw into) and ground. I am trying to figure out if the 70 ohms I'm getting is normal or if this is indicative of a partial short. Thanks! Cheers, Jonathan

Re: L'il help needed..

2018-01-26 by jonathan4051@...

Don't all shout out at once..

Re: [yamahacs80] Re: L'il help needed..

2018-01-26 by Kyle Jarger

I don't have one here, but 15V/70 ohms = 214 mA, which seems a low amount of current for all of those voice boards. But since it's not powered on, it might be a reasonable impedance for this situation. Certainly 70 ohms is nowhere near a short circuit, given the large amount of circuitry present. It's not clear to me if a shorted component/capacitor would NOT show a short when no power was present, but then go short when power was applied...I don't think so...

jkjelec

Re: L'il help needed..

2018-01-29 by jonathan4051@...

Thanks, Kyle, I'll keep that all in mind. I have this question posted on half a dozen forums, including Muffwiggler, VintageSynth.com, moogmusic.com, and the CS-80 Facebook page, and am baffled by the lack of response for such a simple question. Perhaps there's a reason these machines are kept from artists dedicated to the craft of creating music, only to waste away in the hands of hip hop studios and wealthy collectors. Given my financial situation, I am getting tempted to sell my CS-80 at this point if this is the kind of support I can expect in the long haul. C'est la vie, I suppose…guess I'll just muse on something the late, great Kevin Lightner said in one of his final posts: "My suggestion to someone who wants a vintage synth fixed is to have a lot of patience, research everything and have no expectations whatsoever."

Re: [yamahacs80] Re: L'il help needed..

2018-02-01 by Kyle Jarger

jonathan4051, I understand your frustration, but in the list members' defense, how many CS-80 owners are technically oriented enough to consider making this measurement? And even if they are, how many are willing to open their unit valued at $10k-20k, pull up the riser and make this measurement? There is a risk involved in damaging something each time the unit is opened, and the reward is just a vague thank you from the ether. The odds that a unit is open on a tech's bench and the tech saw your post and can take the time to make and report the measurement are slim. I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm just calling it as i see it.

jkjelec

On January 28, 2018 at 7:13 PM "jonathan4051@... [yamahacs80]" <yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Thanks, Kyle, I'll keep that all in mind. I have this question posted on half a dozen forums, including Muffwiggler, VintageSynth.com, moogmusic.com, and the CS-80 Facebook page, and am baffled by the lack of response for such a simple question. Perhaps there's a reason these machines are kept from artists dedicated to the craft of creating music, only to waste away in the hands of hip hop studios and wealthy collectors. Given my financial situation, I am getting tempted to sell my CS-80 at this point if this is the kind of support I can expect in the long haul. C'est la vie, I suppose…guess I'll just muse on something the late, great Kevin Lightner said in one of his final posts: "My suggestion to someone who wants a vintage synth fixed is to have a lot of patience, research everything and have no expectations whatsoever."

Re: [yamahacs80] Re: L'il help needed..

2018-02-01 by Florian Anwander

I own only a CS-50, and I do take care for two CS-80ies here in town
sometimes. It might take several months until I will be in front of a
CS-80 again...

Am 29.01.2018 um 01:13 schrieb jonathan4051@... [yamahacs80]:

>
> Thanks, Kyle, I'll keep that all in mind. I have this question posted
> on half a dozen forums, including Muffwiggler, VintageSynth.com,
> moogmusic.com, and the CS-80 Facebook page, and am baffled by the lack
> of response for such a simple question.
>

--
http://www.florian-anwander.de

Re: L'il help needed..

2018-02-02 by D T

Hey! There is no “only” owning a CS-50! CS-50s are wonderful :)

Thanks to Kyle and Florian and everyone else for always helping people out on these lists...

best - DT

Re: L'il help needed..

2018-02-02 by jonathan4051@...

Thanks for letting me know, Florian, and again for your assistance in my previous technical questions.
Kyle, you make some valid points, and lord knows I can be impatient sometimes, but speaking from someone who's been a part of the vintage synth DIY community since the early 2000's, back in the heyday when folks would generously take the time to explain every possible option and approach to resolving technical problems, I've noticed a marked decline in support. Nowadays, it seems, and like I said, I posted this question on several other forums, it seems things have changed, and I'm wondering if I should either just drop this CS80 off at a service center and pay the $1000's to get it fixed, or just sell it as is and get a Prophet 6. I am a dedicated composer and feel blessed to even have a CS-80 in my possession, and my frustration doesn't just lie in the fact that having to deal with these technical issues is hampering my productivity, but with the egotism I've seen in the musical world in general. One forum in particular (not this group, but one that starts with an 'm' and rhymes with 'uffwiggler') have a few CS-80 owners that will sometimes respond at first, but if they receive a response that in some minuscule way could be misconstrued know-it-all-ish they seemed to get their technical panties in a bunch and just drop off. I don't think it'd take more than 5 minutes to do this test with a DMM, and it can probably done without raising the card riser if you can get a probe to the rail, and this thing was designed to have the main panel raised and lowered and it shouldn't damage anything doing so unless someone is half lit on Moscow Mules beforehand. I would gladly do the same for another CS-80 user, and if one were to do so for me, or even respond with something like 'hey, that sucks, wish I could help, good luck' I always try to offer a clear and concise thank you from my ethereal space.

Re: L'il help needed..

2018-02-02 by jonathan4051@...

Hey D T, anytime I think of the CS-50, I think of this track. Awesome sounds and a very capable synth, indeed, as is the CS-60.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22A7arAclog

>>>> Hey! There is no “only” owning a CS-50! CS-50s are wonderful :)

Thanks to Kyle and Florian and everyone else for always helping people out on these lists...

best - DT

Re: [yamahacs80] L'il help needed..

2018-02-02 by Martin Boisvert

Hi Jonathan,

everyone has made valid points, but you are right it’s not much to ask and I finally took the time to do it. My measurment shows 69 ohms. I hope it helps.

Martin

On Feb 2, 2018, at 9:13 AM, jonathan4051@... [yamahacs80] <yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Hey D T, anytime I think of the CS-50, I think of this track. Awesome sounds and a very capable synth, indeed, as is the CS-60.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22A7arAclog

>>>> Hey! There is no “only” owning a CS-50! CS-50s are wonderful :)

Thanks to Kyle and Florian and everyone else for always helping people out on these lists...

best - DT

Re: L'il help needed..

2018-02-02 by jonathan4051@...

Thank you, Martin!!! You've made my day!!!!

Re: [yamahacs80] L'il help needed..

2018-02-03 by Martin Boisvert

You are welcome Jonathan, sorry it took so long…

Tell me, what is the actual issue with your Yamaha? I can’t seem to be able to find the original thread on the forum. I am no expert but I have brought mine back to life a couple times, let me know if I can help. Two people scratching their heads are usually better than one!

Martin

On Feb 2, 2018, at 9:46 AM, jonathan4051@... [yamahacs80] <yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Thank you, Martin!!! You've made my day!!!!

Re: L'il help needed..

2018-02-03 by D T

Going against the grain opinion-wise or being confused are two things that do not seem to be tolerated on M-Wiggle… which is why I don’t post there. But it’s a community and they have their own thing going… doesn’t have to be everyone’s community. Still a great source of info in the end.

I love that CS-track Jonathan!

This should be on another thread - but does anyone know whatever happened to Old Crow’s CS voice card project? Seems to have POOF vanished….

best - DT

Re: L'il help needed..

2018-02-03 by jonathan4051@...

Martin: I was fixing an issue with the polyphonic aftertouch on my CS-80. A cluster of notes was going full volume no matter how softly I played, and I'd traced to the problem to an open on the +15V aftertouch sensor rail, which I fixed with a jumper, and while I was in there removed all the keys and poly AT sensors and cleaned everything. As a side note: I found out later from a local tech here outside of Philadelphia (he services CS-80's, Paige Hamilton's CS-60 and a local GX-1), that one should be careful with what kind of cleaner you use on these, if any, as they are infused with a resistive material that can be drawn out. I used Tascam RC-1 rubber pinch roller cleaner, and am hoping I didn't do any damage.
So long story short, I forgot to pull the keyboard chassis forward before lowering the card riser, and the metal 15V rail crunched into the PCB's at the rear of the keyboard chassis. No big deal at the time, I thought, but when I powered the CS-80 back up, all the oscillators were firing, and when I started jiggling a few wires I heard a pop, which was likely the 500mA fuse blowing, and then silence. I powered it up a few times thereafter, but all I heard was a high-pitched wine and a white noise hum, and haven't turned it on since, but now that you've validated the resistance I should expect to see between the card rail and ground, I'm going to recalibrate the power supply and fire it up and see what happens.

D T: I think I'm guilty of both on M-Wiggle! I expect to continue to be confused by the engineering of the CS-80, but I am enjoying learning how it works. I haven't heard about Old Crow's voice card project, but did hear back from him recently about a KAS board YM26600 retrofit he's been working on.

Re: [yamahacs80] Re: L'il help needed..

2018-02-03 by Martin Boisvert

I am sorry to hear about that unfortunate event, as I mentioned on my previous post I have had to revive mine a few times and have learned a lot in the process. The last time it died I chased my tail for 2 years and went through just about everything and took measurments card by card and board by board, do you have an email address I could sent you my excel sheet to? Who knows you might find it helpful! As for the AT, I had to rebuild mine COMPLETELY… Not pretty but it works. A lot of my pads were entirely worn out, I applied a copper tape to the pad and the ones I replaced work better than the ones with the original coating!

I don’t know if I would turn it back on just yet though, if you haven’t found out what the problem might be (did I get this right?) I doubt it would be any better now… Which wires did you jiggled?

Let me know where to send the Excel sheet.

Martin

On Feb 3, 2018, at 10:16 AM, jonathan4051@... [yamahacs80] <yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Martin: I was fixing an issue with the polyphonic aftertouch on my CS-80. A cluster of notes was going full volume no matter how softly I played, and I'd traced to the problem to an open on the +15V aftertouch sensor rail, which I fixed with a jumper, and while I was in there removed all the keys and poly AT sensors and cleaned everything. As a side note: I found out later from a local tech here outside of Philadelphia (he services CS-80's, Paige Hamilton's CS-60 and a local GX-1), that one should be careful with what kind of cleaner you use on these, if any, as they are infused with a resistive material that can be drawn out. I used Tascam RC-1 rubber pinch roller cleaner, and am hoping I didn't do any damage.
So long story short, I forgot to pull the keyboard chassis forward before lowering the card riser, and the metal 15V rail crunched into the PCB's at the rear of the keyboard chassis. No big deal at the time, I thought, but when I powered the CS-80 back up, all the oscillators were firing, and when I started jiggling a few wires I heard a pop, which was likely the 500mA fuse blowing, and then silence. I powered it up a few times thereafter, but all I heard was a high-pitched wine and a white noise hum, and haven't turned it on since, but now that you've validated the resistance I should expect to see between the card rail and ground, I'm going to recalibrate the power supply and fire it up and see what happens.

D T: I think I'm guilty of both on M-Wiggle! I expect to continue to be confused by the engineering of the CS-80, but I am enjoying learning how it works. I haven't heard about Old Crow's voice card project, but did hear back from him recently about a KAS board YM26600 retrofit he's been working on.

Re: L'il help needed..

2018-02-04 by jonathan4051@...

Hey Martin,

Thanks for the additional info! My email address is: jonathan401@...
I can take all the info and help I can get on this thing, so send away!
I jiggled the wires on the rear keyboard PCB's and the ones toward the middle of the card riser. There are a couple of heavier-guage brown ones in particular that I was touching when I heard the popping noise. I also noticed the screw holding the TWS board to the riser was missing, which could've been another causal factor, especially if the PCB chassis was touching and detaching from the power rail.
Glad to hear your poly AT is back up and running, despite the unorthodox repair - whatever works, I say!

Cheers,
Jonathan

Re: L'il help needed..

2018-02-15 by jonathan4051@...

Here are the current resistances I'm getting between all power rails on my CS-80 and ground:
+15V = 70.3 Ohms
-15V = 64.5 Ohms
+8.5V = 337 Ohms
-6.5V = 878 Ohms
+10.6V = 540 Ohms
These tests were done with the power off. The -6.5V is low at 878 ohms compared to another owner's 3.95 Kohms on his currently working unit, as well as my 337 ohms compared to his 456 ohms on the +8.5 rail.

Re: [yamahacs80] Re: L'il help needed..

2018-02-17 by Tommy Salsero

Hi Martin.

please sent me too, the Excel sheet? my email: tommysalsero@...

Thanks

2018-02-03 20:10 GMT+01:00 Martin Boisvert martinjboisvert@... [yamahacs80] <yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com>:

I am sorry to hear about that unfortunate event, as I mentioned on my previous post I have had to revive mine a few times and have learned a lot in the process. The last time it died I chased my tail for 2 years and went through just about everything and took measurments card by card and board by board, do you have an email address I could sent you my excel sheet to? Who knows you might find it helpful! As for the AT, I had to rebuild mine COMPLETELY… Not pretty but it works. A lot of my pads were entirely worn out, I applied a copper tape to the pad and the ones I replaced work better than the ones with the original coating!

I don’t know if I would turn it back on just yet though, if you haven’t found out what the problem might be (did I get this right?) I doubt it would be any better now… Which wires did you jiggled?

Let me know where to send the Excel sheet..

Martin

On Feb 3, 2018, at 10:16 AM, jonathan4051@... [yamahacs80] <yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Martin: I was fixing an issue with the polyphonic aftertouch on my CS-80. A cluster of notes was going full volume no matter how softly I played, and I'd traced to the problem to an open on the +15V aftertouch sensor rail, which I fixed with a jumper, and while I was in there removed all the keys and poly AT sensors and cleaned everything. As a side note: I found out later from a local tech here outside of Philadelphia (he services CS-80's, Paige Hamilton's CS-60 and a local GX-1), that one should be careful with what kind of cleaner you use on these, if any, as they are infused with a resistive material that can be drawn out. I used Tascam RC-1 rubber pinch roller cleaner, and am hoping I didn't do any damage.
So long story short, I forgot to pull the keyboard chassis forward before lowering the card riser, and the metal 15V rail crunched into the PCB's at the rear of the keyboard chassis. No big deal at the time, I thought, but when I powered the CS-80 back up, all the oscillators were firing, and when I started jiggling a few wires I heard a pop, which was likely the 500mA fuse blowing, and then silence. I powered it up a few times thereafter, but all I heard was a high-pitched wine and a white noise hum, and haven't turned it on since, but now that you've validated the resistance I should expect to see between the card rail and ground, I'm going to recalibrate the power supply and fire it up and see what happens..

D T: I think I'm guilty of both on M-Wiggle! I expect to continue to be confused by the engineering of the CS-80, but I am enjoying learning how it works. I haven't heard about Old Crow's voice card project, but did hear back from him recently about a KAS board YM26600 retrofit he's been working on.