Yamaha CS80

Hi All,

Has anyone had any experience with the kenton midi kit for the cs80? 
I'd really appreciate any feedback anyone has on it. Does it work well?
Cheers!

Hi,

I think I have the Kenton in my CS. It works great,
although it's developed a quirk wherein middle C
doesn't respond to MIDI. I've been meaning to get
around to having that fixed, but it's easy enough to
work around.

Overall, I like it a lot. Quick response time, good
translation between MIDI velocity and the CS's
velocity response - what more could you want?

Regards,

Mike



--- juno_80 <juno_80@...> wrote:

> Hi All,
> 
> Has anyone had any experience with the kenton midi
> kit for the cs80? 
> I'd really appreciate any feedback anyone has on it.
> Does it work well?
> Cheers!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Hi Mike,

Thanks for your reply. It's put my mind at rest. Now I
don't have to spend hours on my keyboard chops!
Cheers
Jono

--- Mike Fisher <hciassociates@...> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I think I have the Kenton in my CS. It works great,
> although it's developed a quirk wherein middle C
> doesn't respond to MIDI. I've been meaning to get
> around to having that fixed, but it's easy enough to
> work around.
> 
> Overall, I like it a lot. Quick response time, good
> translation between MIDI velocity and the CS's
> velocity response - what more could you want?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> 
> --- juno_80 <juno_80@...> wrote:
> 
> > Hi All,
> > 
> > Has anyone had any experience with the kenton midi
> > kit for the cs80? 
> > I'd really appreciate any feedback anyone has on
> it.
> > Does it work well?
> > Cheers!
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
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> > 
> > 
> > 
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Jono Sloan wrote:
> Hi Mike,
>
> Thanks for your reply. It's put my mind at rest. Now I
> don't have to spend hours on my keyboard chops!
> Cheers
> Jono
>   
Argggghhh!!!!  Sorry, but I consider the keyboard on the CS-80 to be far 
more important to the instrument than the voice cards.  I almost picked 
up the Kenton kit, but I didn't because there's no MIDI out (which is 
why I'm in the middle of restoring a Roland A-50 and a Kurzweil MIDIBoard).

Coincidentally, I've just spent most of this evening removing all the 
keys from my CS-80 and washing each one.  After more than a year, I 
finally have it electronically complete!!  Now I just need to tweak the 
tuning, clean it up, and put it all back together.

Jono - if you, or anyone else, has a MIDI-ed CS-80 and don't use the 
keyboard, I'd be happy to lighten your Yamaha by about 50 lbs by 
removing the keyboard from it!  I'd love to have a spare CS-80 keyboard 
and MIDI it: what a great controller.  I'll take the ribbon too!  And 
don't think I'm not serious.

Anyway, enjoy yours however you play it!

 David

> --- Mike Fisher <hciassociates@...> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> > 
> > I think I have the Kenton in my CS. It works great,
> > although it's developed a quirk wherein middle C
> > doesn't respond to MIDI. I've been meaning to get
> > around to having that fixed, but it's easy enough to
> > work around.
> > 
> > Overall, I like it a lot. Quick response time, good
> > translation between MIDI velocity and the CS's
> > velocity response - what more could you want?
> > 
> > Regards,
> > 
> > Mike
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- juno_80 <juno_80@...> wrote:
> > 
> > > Hi All,
> > > 
> > > Has anyone had any experience with the kenton midi
> > > kit for the cs80? 
> > > I'd really appreciate any feedback anyone has on
> > it.
> > > Does it work well?
> > > Cheers!
>
>

Well... let me qualify my statements by saying that I
generally prefer to use the CS keyboard, too - and I
agree completely that it's an important part of what
makes a CS a CS. But there are times when
repeatability or precision is more important than
keyboard feel. For those situations, I use MIDI along
with a sequencer. If I'm playing the CS in a "pad"
context or as an effect, then I'll use the CS
keyboard. It's helpful to have both options. I
probably end up using the CS keyboard about 70% of the
time, and 30% over MIDI. But since I can't play 16th
note runs all day long without getting tired, bored,
and/or sloppy, sequencing via MIDI is very useful.


--- David Rogoff <david@...> wrote:

> Jono Sloan wrote:
> > Hi Mike,
> >
> > Thanks for your reply. It's put my mind at rest.
> Now I
> > don't have to spend hours on my keyboard chops!
> > Cheers
> > Jono
> >   
> Argggghhh!!!!  Sorry, but I consider the keyboard on
> the CS-80 to be far 
> more important to the instrument than the voice
> cards.  I almost picked 
> up the Kenton kit, but I didn't because there's no
> MIDI out (which is 
> why I'm in the middle of restoring a Roland A-50 and
> a Kurzweil MIDIBoard).
> 
> Coincidentally, I've just spent most of this evening
> removing all the 
> keys from my CS-80 and washing each one.  After more
> than a year, I 
> finally have it electronically complete!!  Now I
> just need to tweak the 
> tuning, clean it up, and put it all back together.
> 
> Jono - if you, or anyone else, has a MIDI-ed CS-80
> and don't use the 
> keyboard, I'd be happy to lighten your Yamaha by
> about 50 lbs by 
> removing the keyboard from it!  I'd love to have a
> spare CS-80 keyboard 
> and MIDI it: what a great controller.  I'll take the
> ribbon too!  And 
> don't think I'm not serious.
> 
> Anyway, enjoy yours however you play it!
> 
>  David
> > --- Mike Fisher <hciassociates@...> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > > 
> > > I think I have the Kenton in my CS. It works
> great,
> > > although it's developed a quirk wherein middle C
> > > doesn't respond to MIDI. I've been meaning to
> get
> > > around to having that fixed, but it's easy
> enough to
> > > work around.
> > > 
> > > Overall, I like it a lot. Quick response time,
> good
> > > translation between MIDI velocity and the CS's
> > > velocity response - what more could you want?
> > > 
> > > Regards,
> > > 
> > > Mike
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- juno_80 <juno_80@...> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Hi All,
> > > > 
> > > > Has anyone had any experience with the kenton
> midi
> > > > kit for the cs80? 
> > > > I'd really appreciate any feedback anyone has
> on
> > > it.
> > > > Does it work well?
> > > > Cheers!
> >
> >   
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
>     yamahacs80-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 



	
		
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Sure - I agree with you.  I certainly wasn't trying to put anyone down.

 David

Mike Fisher wrote:

> Well... let me qualify my statements by saying that I
> generally prefer to use the CS keyboard, too - and I
> agree completely that it's an important part of what
> makes a CS a CS. But there are times when
> repeatability or precision is more important than
> keyboard feel. For those situations, I use MIDI along
> with a sequencer. If I'm playing the CS in a "pad"
> context or as an effect, then I'll use the CS
> keyboard. It's helpful to have both options. I
> probably end up using the CS keyboard about 70% of the
> time, and 30% over MIDI. But since I can't play 16th
> note runs all day long without getting tired, bored,
> and/or sloppy, sequencing via MIDI is very useful.
>
>
> --- David Rogoff <david@...> wrote:
>
> > Jono Sloan wrote:
> > > Hi Mike,
> > >
> > > Thanks for your reply. It's put my mind at rest.
> > Now I
> > > don't have to spend hours on my keyboard chops!
> > > Cheers
> > > Jono
> > >   
> > Argggghhh!!!!  Sorry, but I consider the keyboard on
> > the CS-80 to be far 
> > more important to the instrument than the voice
> > cards.  I almost picked 
> > up the Kenton kit, but I didn't because there's no
> > MIDI out (which is 
> > why I'm in the middle of restoring a Roland A-50 and
> > a Kurzweil MIDIBoard).
> > 
> > Coincidentally, I've just spent most of this evening
> > removing all the 
> > keys from my CS-80 and washing each one.  After more
> > than a year, I 
> > finally have it electronically complete!!  Now I
> > just need to tweak the 
> > tuning, clean it up, and put it all back together.
> > 
> > Jono - if you, or anyone else, has a MIDI-ed CS-80
> > and don't use the 
> > keyboard, I'd be happy to lighten your Yamaha by
> > about 50 lbs by 
> > removing the keyboard from it!  I'd love to have a
> > spare CS-80 keyboard 
> > and MIDI it: what a great controller.  I'll take the
> > ribbon too!  And 
> > don't think I'm not serious.
> > 
> > Anyway, enjoy yours however you play it!
>
>

Did you notice what sort of condition your aftertouch sensors were in?
 
I have heard that they deteriorate and need replacing.

Simon
Canberra
AUSTRALIA
________________________________

From: yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com on behalf of David Rogoff
Sent: Wed 23/11/2005 6:14 PM
To: yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [yamahacs80] MIdi For CS80

Coincidentally, I've just spent most of this evening removing all the
keys from my CS-80 and washing each one.  After more than a year, I
finally have it electronically complete!!  Now I just need to tweak the
tuning, clean it up, and put it all back together. 
  
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
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Rory Mc Donald wrote:
> An interesting solution for this is the MOOG Piano bar Midi converter.  
> See this link:
> http://moogmusic.com/detail.php?main_product_id=71
> I believe it is on sale until Nov30.
>
>
>   
I wish, but there's a couple of problems: only fits 88-key keyboards, 
and no aftertouch (don't know how you'd do that optically!).

A MIDI out for the CS-80 wouldn't be that bad.  The keyscanner already 
presents the key data on a bus in a documented format. You would need 
A/D converters for the velocity and aftertouch values. 

 David

>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Sure - I agree with you.  I certainly wasn't trying to put anyone down.
>
> David
>
> Mike Fisher wrote:
> > Well... let me qualify my statements by saying that I
> > generally prefer to use the CS keyboard, too - and I
> > agree completely that it's an important part of what
> > makes a CS a CS. But there are times when
> > repeatability or precision is more important than
> > keyboard feel. For those situations, I use MIDI along
> > with a sequencer. If I'm playing the CS in a "pad"
> > context or as an effect, then I'll use the CS
> > keyboard. It's helpful to have both options. I
> > probably end up using the CS keyboard about 70% of the
> > time, and 30% over MIDI. But since I can't play 16th
> > note runs all day long without getting tired, bored,
> > and/or sloppy, sequencing via MIDI is very useful.
> >
> >
> > --- David Rogoff <david@...> wrote:
> >
> > > Jono Sloan wrote:
> > > > Hi Mike,
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for your reply. It's put my mind at rest.
> > > Now I
> > > > don't have to spend hours on my keyboard chops!
> > > > Cheers
> > > > Jono
> > > >  
> > > Argggghhh!!!!  Sorry, but I consider the keyboard on
> > > the CS-80 to be far
> > > more important to the instrument than the voice
> > > cards.  I almost picked
> > > up the Kenton kit, but I didn't because there's no
> > > MIDI out (which is
> > > why I'm in the middle of restoring a Roland A-50 and
> > > a Kurzweil MIDIBoard).
> > >
> > > Coincidentally, I've just spent most of this evening
> > > removing all the
> > > keys from my CS-80 and washing each one.  After more
> > > than a year, I
> > > finally have it electronically complete!!  Now I
> > > just need to tweak the
> > > tuning, clean it up, and put it all back together.
> > >
> > > Jono - if you, or anyone else, has a MIDI-ed CS-80
> > > and don't use the
> > > keyboard, I'd be happy to lighten your Yamaha by
> > > about 50 lbs by
> > > removing the keyboard from it!  I'd love to have a
> > > spare CS-80 keyboard
> > > and MIDI it: what a great controller.  I'll take the
> > > ribbon too!  And
> > > don't think I'm not serious.
> > >
> > > Anyway, enjoy yours however you play it!
> >
> >

Wheaton, Simon wrote:
> Did you notice what sort of condition your aftertouch sensors were in?
>  
> I have heard that they deteriorate and need replacing.
Simon,

The sensors in mine all were fine (actually, it's a really long story).  
However, I have seen sensor boards that looked like they had some kind 
of corrosion on the circuit board contacts under the rubber pad, 
possibly from the rubber pad decomposing.  They are easy to disassemble 
and clean.  Take a look at sensor_guts.jpg under Files on the Yahoo site.

On the other hand, the Roland A-50 I'm fixing up has thick felt glued 
down along the whole length of the pressure sensing circuit boards.  I'm 
afraid if I pull any of it up I'll destroy the whole thing!  The CS-80 
is so much easier and more fun to work on.  Of course, it's about 10 
times as big and heavy.

 David

Thanks David,
 
I did try to remove the keyboard from my CS80 once, but one of the large bolts holding it in was so tight I couldn't turn it, maybe I'll give it another go.
 
Any idea what you do if they have deteriorated? Can you buy replacements? They look like they are a specific size/shape to do the job.
 
Thanks,
Simon
Canberra
AUSTRALIA

________________________________

From: yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com on behalf of David Rogoff
Sent: Thu 24/11/2005 5:45 PM
To: yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [yamahacs80] aftertouch sensors



Wheaton, Simon wrote:
> Did you notice what sort of condition your aftertouch sensors were in?
> I have heard that they deteriorate and need replacing.
> Simon,

The sensors in mine all were fine (actually, it's a really long story). 
However, I have seen sensor boards that looked like they had some kind
of corrosion on the circuit board contacts under the rubber pad,
possibly from the rubber pad decomposing.  They are easy to disassemble
and clean.  Take a look at sensor_guts.jpg under Files on the Yahoo site.


David 
  
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I've got two keys on my CS-80 that are not responding to aftertouch.  
What is the procedure to disassemble and get to the aftertouch  
sensors and check them?

Thanks,


Stephen Teller








The sensors in mine all were fine (actually, it's a really long story).
However, I have seen sensor boards that looked like they had some kind
of corrosion on the circuit board contacts under the rubber pad,
possibly from the rubber pad decomposing.  They are easy to disassemble
and clean.  Take a look at sensor_guts.jpg under Files on the Yahoo  
site.


David

-------------------------------------

Stephen Teller wrote:
> I've got two keys on my CS-80 that are not responding to aftertouch.  
> What is the procedure to disassemble and get to the aftertouch  
> sensors and check them?
>   
Here's the quick version - see pictures in Photo/Take Apart

Remove big screws from bottom of unit so that panel hinges up.

Remove screws holding down panels to the left and right of the keyboard

Remove screws holding down rack with all the cards behind the keyboard.

Lift up card rack.

Remove screws on left and right side of keyboard plywood platform.

Slide keyboard platform back (goes about 1/2 inch).

Remove two metal bars over keys.

Remove plastic key contact cover from back of keys (snaps off).

Remove keys. Note, you have to remove black keys next to any white keys 
you want to remove. Black keys are easy - but be careful around switch 
contacts at back of key.  White keys need more careful work to get from 
lip out from under metal edge.  You'll likely have to remove a whole 
octave of keys.

Once keys are out, you can see rubber aftertouch sensors along front of 
keys.  They are in strips of 7 for white keys and 5 for black keys.  To 
take apart, remove the two screws.  The white, nylon frame will come 
off, and then the 5 (or 7) rubber pads will be loose.

However, I'd first stick a volt-meter from ground to the appropriate 
wire coming off the sensor (should be obvious which is which).  Just 
push on the rubber pad with your finger and see if the voltage goes up.  
Check a good one first for reference.

If this is good, then it's not the sensor, but something in the wiring 
or the circuit boards.  If it's not, try taking apart the sensor and 
cleaning the contacts under the rubber pad with a q-tip and alcohol.

Don't do any of this if you're not comfortable with this kind of thing.  
I provide no warranty!

Good luck!

 David

Stephen Teller wrote:
> I've got two keys on my CS-80 that are not responding to aftertouch.
> What is the procedure to disassemble and get to the aftertouch
> sensors and check them?
>
Here's the quick version - see pictures in Photo/Take Apart

Remove big screws from bottom of unit so that panel hinges up.

Remove screws holding down panels to the left and right of the keyboard

Remove screws holding down rack with all the cards behind the keyboard.

Lift up card rack.

Remove screws on left and right side of keyboard plywood platform.

Slide keyboard platform back (goes about 1/2 inch).

Remove two metal bars over keys.

Remove plastic key contact cover from back of keys (snaps off).

Remove keys. Note, you have to remove black keys next to any white keys
you want to remove. Black keys are easy - but be careful around switch
contacts at back of key. White keys need more careful work to get from
lip out from under metal edge. You'll likely have to remove a whole
octave of keys.

Once keys are out, you can see rubber aftertouch sensors along front of
keys. They are in strips of 7 for white keys and 5 for black keys. To
take apart, remove the two screws. The white, nylon frame will come
off, and then the 5 (or 7) rubber pads will be loose.

However, I'd first stick a volt-meter from ground to the appropriate
wire coming off the sensor (should be obvious which is which). Just
push on the rubber pad with your finger and see if the voltage goes up.
Check a good one first for reference.

If this is good, then it's not the sensor, but something in the wiring
or the circuit boards. If it's not, try taking apart the sensor and
cleaning the contacts under the rubber pad with a q-tip and alcohol.

Don't do any of this if you're not comfortable with this kind of thing.
I provide no warranty!

Good luck!

David

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Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.

This sounds like it is not your aftertouch sensors at all, but the problem 
could be on the TWS board. Find out what channel is not responding ( 8 in 
all) by turning on the synth and pressing a single key down hard until one 
does not respond and that is the channel that is at fault. Start at the TWS 
board and then check the TRG 1 though to 5 for lose wires or a downed VCA 
ic.

>From: Tommy Priakos <tpriakos@...>
>Reply-To: yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com
>To: yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [yamahacs80] aftertouch sensors
>Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 23:53:53 -0800 (PST)
>
>My problem is not a few keys, but one of the M card's aftertouch isn't 
>responding. When I trigger the card that has the problem, no matter which 
>key, I don't get the usual aftertouch changes, such as brilliance or volume 
>or LFO.
>   Tommy
>
>
>David Rogoff <david@...> wrote:
>   Stephen Teller wrote:
> > I've got two keys on my CS-80 that are not responding to aftertouch.
> > What is the procedure to disassemble and get to the aftertouch
> > sensors and check them?
> >
>Here's the quick version - see pictures in Photo/Take Apart
>
>Remove big screws from bottom of unit so that panel hinges up.
>
>Remove screws holding down panels to the left and right of the keyboard
>
>Remove screws holding down rack with all the cards behind the keyboard.
>
>Lift up card rack.
>
>Remove screws on left and right side of keyboard plywood platform.
>
>Slide keyboard platform back (goes about 1/2 inch).
>
>Remove two metal bars over keys.
>
>Remove plastic key contact cover from back of keys (snaps off).
>
>Remove keys. Note, you have to remove black keys next to any white keys
>you want to remove. Black keys are easy - but be careful around switch
>contacts at back of key.  White keys need more careful work to get from
>lip out from under metal edge.  You'll likely have to remove a whole
>octave of keys.
>
>Once keys are out, you can see rubber aftertouch sensors along front of
>keys.  They are in strips of 7 for white keys and 5 for black keys.  To
>take apart, remove the two screws.  The white, nylon frame will come
>off, and then the 5 (or 7) rubber pads will be loose.
>
>However, I'd first stick a volt-meter from ground to the appropriate
>wire coming off the sensor (should be obvious which is which).  Just
>push on the rubber pad with your finger and see if the voltage goes up.
>Check a good one first for reference.
>
>If this is good, then it's not the sensor, but something in the wiring
>or the circuit boards.  If it's not, try taking apart the sensor and
>cleaning the contacts under the rubber pad with a q-tip and alcohol.
>
>Don't do any of this if you're not comfortable with this kind of thing.
>I provide no warranty!
>
>Good luck!
>
>David
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>  Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.

Hey
I tried several times to get in conact with Kent because he is a well gifted 
man in cs-80 restorations.
I used his email address, tired the phone# on the rlmusic homepage, I even 
contact Richard from rlmusic but so far no luck.
I seen some posts of him in this list so I hope he is still online and maybe 
he has some time to get in contact with me regarding cs-80 ksr-upgrade.

Regards
Thorsten