Yamaha CS80

Hi there,

I noticed the lower octave stopped working on my CS80 yesterday. All other keys, ribbon and knobs worked great. More specifically, the lowest C key on the left of the keyboard worked but every key after D, E, F, G, A, B, C (and the respective black keys) did not trigger
any sound. The second octave (after C) and all other keys worked just fine.

The weird thing is that an hour later I turned the machine back on again, to see if it will work, and everything WAS working back to normal. This has happened 3 times so far in the last year, in 3 different instances, and I don't understand what is causing this. I never move, tamper or shake my machine.

If anyone has experienced something similar and was able to fix it, would love
to hear back. Also any advice is greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time and Happy New Year!

Constantin

I experienced the same thing twice. No idea what is causing it.

Kent

On Jan 8, 2013, at 3:17 PM, Constantin <constantinz@...> wrote:

> Hi there,
>
> I noticed the lower octave stopped working on my CS80 yesterday. All other keys, ribbon and knobs worked great. More specifically, the lowest C key on the left of the keyboard worked but every key after D, E, F, G, A, B, C (and the respective black keys) did not trigger
> any sound. The second octave (after C) and all other keys worked just fine.
>
> The weird thing is that an hour later I turned the machine back on again, to see if it will work, and everything WAS working back to normal. This has happened 3 times so far in the last year, in 3 different instances, and I don't understand what is causing this. I never move, tamper or shake my machine.
>
> If anyone has experienced something similar and was able to fix it, would love
> to hear back. Also any advice is greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time and Happy New Year!
>
> Constantin
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Kent,

Thanks for your answer. I forgot to mention that the second instance this happened, it was very persisting. Had to bring someone to open it and take a look at it and then "miraculously" it worked again with nothing fixed.

From your past two instances, what pattern did you notice after the keys were not working to go back to the working state? I mean did you leave the keyboard on for hours after the problem? Turned it off then turned it on later? If you have any recollection, that could maybe help, in case this happens again - cross your fingers it never happens.

Fyi, from my small recollection, this problem is probably caused when the CS is just turned on and I play the keys immediately (note, that I do that rarely, only when I try to test my speakers for sound. I think I should never do that again, just to be safe, and only use the machine for the first time it is on for an hour first)

Constantin

--- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, Omega Code 80 wrote:
>
> I experienced the same thing twice. No idea what is causing it.
>
> Kent
>
> On Jan 8, 2013, at 3:17 PM, Constantin wrote:
>
> > Hi there,
> >
> > I noticed the lower octave stopped working on my CS80 yesterday. All other keys, ribbon and knobs worked great. More specifically, the lowest C key on the left of the keyboard worked but every key after D, E, F, G, A, B, C (and the respective black keys) did not trigger
> > any sound. The second octave (after C) and all other keys worked just fine.
> >
> > The weird thing is that an hour later I turned the machine back on again, to see if it will work, and everything WAS working back to normal. This has happened 3 times so far in the last year, in 3 different instances, and I don't understand what is causing this. I never move, tamper or shake my machine.
> >
> > If anyone has experienced something similar and was able to fix it, would love
> > to hear back. Also any advice is greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time and Happy New Year!
> >
> > Constantin
> >
> >
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

-back in the late 70's they did claim these instruments fixed themselves...

--- On Tue, 1/8/13, Constantin <constantinz@...> wrote:

From: Constantin <constantinz@...>
Subject: [yamahacs80] Re: Lowest Octave CS80 stopped working again and now it works again - any ideas?
To: yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, January 8, 2013, 6:44 PM
















 









Hi Kent,



Thanks for your answer. I forgot to mention that the second instance this happened, it was very persisting. Had to bring someone to open it and take a look at it and then "miraculously" it worked again with nothing fixed.



From your past two instances, what pattern did you notice after the keys were not working to go back to the working state? I mean did you leave the keyboard on for hours after the problem? Turned it off then turned it on later? If you have any recollection, that could maybe help, in case this happens again - cross your fingers it never happens.



Fyi, from my small recollection, this problem is probably caused when the CS is just turned on and I play the keys immediately (note, that I do that rarely, only when I try to test my speakers for sound. I think I should never do that again, just to be safe, and only use the machine for the first time it is on for an hour first)



Constantin



--- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, Omega Code 80 wrote:

>

> I experienced the same thing twice. No idea what is causing it.

>

> Kent

>

> On Jan 8, 2013, at 3:17 PM, Constantin wrote:

>

> > Hi there,

> >

> > I noticed the lower octave stopped working on my CS80 yesterday. All other keys, ribbon and knobs worked great. More specifically, the lowest C key on the left of the keyboard worked but every key after D, E, F, G, A, B, C (and the respective black keys) did not trigger

> > any sound. The second octave (after C) and all other keys worked just fine.

> >

> > The weird thing is that an hour later I turned the machine back on again, to see if it will work, and everything WAS working back to normal. This has happened 3 times so far in the last year, in 3 different instances, and I don't understand what is causing this. I never move, tamper or shake my machine.

> >

> > If anyone has experienced something similar and was able to fix it, would love

> > to hear back. Also any advice is greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time and Happy New Year!

> >

> > Constantin

> >

> >

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>



























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I (and others) had given ideas as to what areas might be responsible. Since it's intermittent, might be time for some (careful) wiggling of wires and maybe some cold spray and/or heat gun to try and trigger the problem.

One thing I have seen in the last few CS80s I've worked on is that they all seem to be hitting an age now where lots of parts (caps, chips) are starting to go bad much more than I've ever seen. I think any I work on in the future that need anything more than a simple tuning is going to make me require the owner to pretty much agree to a full re-chip/cap. Yeah, it's expensive (and a pain in the ass to do - my hand is already getting numb from the motor in my Hakko desoldering gun) but the alternative is tracing bugs forever and possibly (likely?) triggering other already on the edge failures in the process with lots of power cycling.

Anyway, let us know what you find out!

David

On Jan 8, 2013, at 6:44 PM, "Constantin" <constantinz@...> wrote:

> Hi Kent,
>
> Thanks for your answer. I forgot to mention that the second instance this happened, it was very persisting. Had to bring someone to open it and take a look at it and then "miraculously" it worked again with nothing fixed.
>
> From your past two instances, what pattern did you notice after the keys were not working to go back to the working state? I mean did you leave the keyboard on for hours after the problem? Turned it off then turned it on later? If you have any recollection, that could maybe help, in case this happens again - cross your fingers it never happens.
>
> Fyi, from my small recollection, this problem is probably caused when the CS is just turned on and I play the keys immediately (note, that I do that rarely, only when I try to test my speakers for sound. I think I should never do that again, just to be safe, and only use the machine for the first time it is on for an hour first)
>
> Constantin
>
>
> --- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, Omega Code 80 wrote:
>>
>> I experienced the same thing twice. No idea what is causing it.
>>
>> Kent
>>
>> On Jan 8, 2013, at 3:17 PM, Constantin wrote:
>>
>>> Hi there,
>>>
>>> I noticed the lower octave stopped working on my CS80 yesterday. All other keys, ribbon and knobs worked great. More specifically, the lowest C key on the left of the keyboard worked but every key after D, E, F, G, A, B, C (and the respective black keys) did not trigger
>>> any sound. The second octave (after C) and all other keys worked just fine.
>>>
>>> The weird thing is that an hour later I turned the machine back on again, to see if it will work, and everything WAS working back to normal. This has happened 3 times so far in the last year, in 3 different instances, and I don't understand what is causing this. I never move, tamper or shake my machine.
>>>
>>> If anyone has experienced something similar and was able to fix it, would love
>>> to hear back. Also any advice is greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time and Happy New Year!
>>>
>>> Constantin
>>>

When you say "full re-chip" David are you also including all the custom IG and YM chips?

Where on earth would you find them all..?

Cheers,
TOM

--- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, David Rogoff wrote:
>
> I (and others) had given ideas as to what areas might be responsible. Since it's intermittent, might be time for some (careful) wiggling of wires and maybe some cold spray and/or heat gun to try and trigger the problem.
>
> One thing I have seen in the last few CS80s I've worked on is that they all seem to be hitting an age now where lots of parts (caps, chips) are starting to go bad much more than I've ever seen. I think any I work on in the future that need anything more than a simple tuning is going to make me require the owner to pretty much agree to a full re-chip/cap. Yeah, it's expensive (and a pain in the ass to do - my hand is already getting numb from the motor in my Hakko desoldering gun) but the alternative is tracing bugs forever and possibly (likely?) triggering other already on the edge failures in the process with lots of power cycling.
>
> Anyway, let us know what you find out!
>
> David
>
> On Jan 8, 2013, at 6:44 PM, "Constantin" wrote:
>
> > Hi Kent,
> >
> > Thanks for your answer. I forgot to mention that the second instance this happened, it was very persisting. Had to bring someone to open it and take a look at it and then "miraculously" it worked again with nothing fixed.
> >
> > From your past two instances, what pattern did you notice after the keys were not working to go back to the working state? I mean did you leave the keyboard on for hours after the problem? Turned it off then turned it on later? If you have any recollection, that could maybe help, in case this happens again - cross your fingers it never happens.
> >
> > Fyi, from my small recollection, this problem is probably caused when the CS is just turned on and I play the keys immediately (note, that I do that rarely, only when I try to test my speakers for sound. I think I should never do that again, just to be safe, and only use the machine for the first time it is on for an hour first)
> >
> > Constantin
> >
> >
> > --- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, Omega Code 80 wrote:
> >>
> >> I experienced the same thing twice. No idea what is causing it.
> >>
> >> Kent
> >>
> >> On Jan 8, 2013, at 3:17 PM, Constantin wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi there,
> >>>
> >>> I noticed the lower octave stopped working on my CS80 yesterday. All other keys, ribbon and knobs worked great. More specifically, the lowest C key on the left of the keyboard worked but every key after D, E, F, G, A, B, C (and the respective black keys) did not trigger
> >>> any sound. The second octave (after C) and all other keys worked just fine.
> >>>
> >>> The weird thing is that an hour later I turned the machine back on again, to see if it will work, and everything WAS working back to normal. This has happened 3 times so far in the last year, in 3 different instances, and I don't understand what is causing this. I never move, tamper or shake my machine.
> >>>
> >>> If anyone has experienced something similar and was able to fix it, would love
> >>> to hear back. Also any advice is greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time and Happy New Year!
> >>>
> >>> Constantin
> >>>
>

On Jan 9, 2013, at 8:46 AM, "Quazimodo" <noddyspuncture@...> wrote:

> When you say "full re-chip" David are you also including all the custom IG and YM chips?

Nope - just the 4000 CMOS and the op-amps.

> Where on earth would you find them all..?

That's my problem: I've been limiting my search to earth :)

I agree. I replaced all CMOS, caps, light bulbs, and Op-Amps in mine. Taking it apart and putting it back together again every time something breaks is too much stress for the CS80.

-Mike

--- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, David Rogoff wrote:
>
>
> On Jan 9, 2013, at 8:46 AM, "Quazimodo" wrote:
>
> > When you say "full re-chip" David are you also including all the custom IG and YM chips?
>
> Nope - just the 4000 CMOS and the op-amps.
>
> > Where on earth would you find them all..?
>
> That's my problem: I've been limiting my search to earth :)
>

I have most of the IGxxxx voice chips in stock. :)
Doug
synthparts.com

--- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, David Rogoff wrote:
>
>
> On Jan 9, 2013, at 8:46 AM, "Quazimodo" wrote:
>
> > When you say "full re-chip" David are you also including all the custom IG and YM chips?
>
> Nope - just the 4000 CMOS and the op-amps.
>
> > Where on earth would you find them all..?
>
> That's my problem: I've been limiting my search to earth :)
>

Thank you everybody for your input, especially to Ken who works on so many devices and takes the time to look into this too :)

I have an update on this: quick fix or "lucky" me this time. Basically, I had the same problem a couple of hours ago where the notes of the lower octave did not work. What I did was leave it on for an extra hour and tried again and still nothing worked. I decided, lucky me, to press one/two of keys of lower octave (that did not make any sound) and move the ribbon at the same time and voila I heard a sound. So now everything works again, hopefully this will do next time this happens. Maybe the ribbon was stuck or has a glitch. A mystery!

I will update if this "fix" works next time this issue occurs.

--- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, "synthparts" wrote:
>
> I have most of the IGxxxx voice chips in stock. :)
> Doug
> synthparts.com
>
> --- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, David Rogoff wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Jan 9, 2013, at 8:46 AM, "Quazimodo" wrote:
> >
> > > When you say "full re-chip" David are you also including all the custom IG and YM chips?
> >
> > Nope - just the 4000 CMOS and the op-amps.
> >
> > > Where on earth would you find them all..?
> >
> > That's my problem: I've been limiting my search to earth :)
> >
>