Yamaha CS80

Please let me know if this has already been addressed or if it's a known issue.

In sustain mode I, when I play a note with a long release (or with the sustain slider set high with the sustain pedal activated), release the note, and then I play a lower note, the higher note is retriggered. It doesn't happen when I'm still holding the higher note. It also doesn't happen when I play a note higher than the first note played. If I do the same thing, but instead play a chord, the chord is retriggered when I play a lower note.

Also, the "re-triggered" notes are unaffected by filter or envelope, i.e., if the filter cutoff is low on the sustaining notes, the re-triggered notes always have a sharp attack and wide-open filter.

What's going on here? Is there a fix?

I just checked again and I was wrong about the filter being wide-open on re-triggered notes. It's only slightly more open.

--- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, "effegee" <floobygoop@...> wrote:
>
> Please let me know if this has already been addressed or if it's a known issue.
>
> In sustain mode I, when I play a note with a long release (or with the sustain slider set high with the sustain pedal activated), release the note, and then I play a lower note, the higher note is retriggered. It doesn't happen when I'm still holding the higher note. It also doesn't happen when I play a note higher than the first note played. If I do the same thing, but instead play a chord, the chord is retriggered when I play a lower note.
>
> Also, the "re-triggered" notes are unaffected by filter or envelope, i.e., if the filter cutoff is low on the sustaining notes, the re-triggered notes always have a sharp attack and wide-open filter.
>
> What's going on here? Is there a fix?
>

if i'm not mistaken all cs-80s do this

--- On Tue, 3/27/12, effegee <floobygoop@...> wrote:

From: effegee <floobygoop@...>
Subject: [yamahacs80] Re: Bottom key re-trigger and sustain [CS-80]
To: yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, March 27, 2012, 6:28 AM
















 









I just checked again and I was wrong about the filter being wide-open on re-triggered notes. It's only slightly more open.



--- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, "effegee" <floobygoop@...> wrote:

>

> Please let me know if this has already been addressed or if it's a known issue.

>

> In sustain mode I, when I play a note with a long release (or with the sustain slider set high with the sustain pedal activated), release the note, and then I play a lower note, the higher note is retriggered. It doesn't happen when I'm still holding the higher note. It also doesn't happen when I play a note higher than the first note played. If I do the same thing, but instead play a chord, the chord is retriggered when I play a lower note.

>

> Also, the "re-triggered" notes are unaffected by filter or envelope, i.e., if the filter cutoff is low on the sustaining notes, the re-triggered notes always have a sharp attack and wide-open filter.

>

> What's going on here? Is there a fix?

>



























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

look at your keyboard scaling....... sounds like you are experiencing what I call filter dance.....   if your low kybd brilliance is up it will add to the sustaining upper notes... if your low kybd is duller, it will mute the upper notes..... Im sure thats what you hear.... positive

 
-----Original Message-----
From: effegee <floobygoop@...>
To: yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com
Date: 03/27/12 08:01
Subject: [POSSIBLE SPAM] [yamahacs80] Bottom key re-trigger and sustain [CS-80]

     
Please let me know if this has already been addressed or if it's a known issue.

In sustain mode I, when I play a note with a long release (or with the sustain slider set high with the sustain pedal activated), release the note, and then I play a lower note, the higher note is retriggered. It doesn't happen when I'm still holding the higher note. It also doesn't happen when I play a note higher than the first note played. If I do the same thing, but instead play a chord, the chord is retriggered when I play a lower note.

Also, the "re-triggered" notes are unaffected by filter or envelope, i.e., if the filter cutoff is low on the sustaining notes, the re-triggered notes always have a sharp attack and wide-open filter.

What's going on here? Is there a fix?









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Laurie Curry <mailto:laurie@...>
> March 27, 2012 11:50 AM
> look at your keyboard scaling....... sounds like you are experiencing
> what I call filter dance..... if your low kybd brilliance is up it
> will add to the sustaining upper notes... if your low kybd is duller,
> it will mute the upper notes..... Im sure thats what you hear.... positive
>

Yeah - this is a bug in the CS80 design. The controls for
leve/brilliance high/low are common for all 8 voices and are based on
the last key pressed. So, if you have these set to extreme values,
especially with high filter resonance, you'll get odd results. This is
most noticeable, as you've found, with "ringing" notes in Sustain I
mode. It could be made to work correctly with lots of ugly jumpers - oh
- and 14 space KBC boards with the custom Yamaha DACs. Yes, you could
do it with S/Hs instead, blah, blah. Not even worth thinking about
without a new ASIC/processor board to replace the KAS, TKC, KBCs, SH, etc.

David


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks, guys, for the explanation. It's good to know where it comes from. That's what I love about this place. People helping people.
Now I'll just find a musical way to exploit this little fault.

Doug

--- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, David Rogoff <david@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Laurie Curry <mailto:laurie@...>
> > March 27, 2012 11:50 AM
> > look at your keyboard scaling....... sounds like you are experiencing
> > what I call filter dance..... if your low kybd brilliance is up it
> > will add to the sustaining upper notes... if your low kybd is duller,
> > it will mute the upper notes..... Im sure thats what you hear.... positive
> >
> Yeah - this is a bug in the CS80 design. The controls for
> leve/brilliance high/low are common for all 8 voices and are based on
> the last key pressed. So, if you have these set to extreme values,
> especially with high filter resonance, you'll get odd results. This is
> most noticeable, as you've found, with "ringing" notes in Sustain I
> mode. It could be made to work correctly with lots of ugly jumpers - oh
> - and 14 space KBC boards with the custom Yamaha DACs. Yes, you could
> do it with S/Hs instead, blah, blah. Not even worth thinking about
> without a new ASIC/processor board to replace the KAS, TKC, KBCs, SH, etc.
>
> David
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Hehe... that's the spirit, Doug...;c)

--- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, "effegee" <floobygoop@...> wrote:
>
>> Now I'll just find a musical way to exploit this little fault.
>
> Doug

I dont think its a bug at all..... its a characteristic of sustain 1...... in sustain 1 any modulation is disconnected to any released notes..... pitch included....   Here is how you can use it to your benefit
 
filter dance...   http://slammah.xanga.com/audio/7bdae2131276/
 
 
 
 


-----Original Message-----
From: effegee <floobygoop@...>
To: yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com
Date: 03/27/12 16:15
Subject: Re: [POSSIBLE SPAM] [yamahacs80] Bottom key re-trigger and sustain [CS-80]

     
Thanks, guys, for the explanation. It's good to know where it comes from. That's what I love about this place. People helping people.
Now I'll just find a musical way to exploit this little fault.

Doug

--- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, David Rogoff <david@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Laurie Curry <mailto:laurie@...>
> > March 27, 2012 11:50 AM
> > look at your keyboard scaling....... sounds like you are experiencing
> > what I call filter dance..... if your low kybd brilliance is up it
> > will add to the sustaining upper notes... if your low kybd is duller,
> > it will mute the upper notes..... Im sure thats what you hear.... positive
> >
> Yeah - this is a bug in the CS80 design. The controls for
> leve/brilliance high/low are common for all 8 voices and are based on
> the last key pressed. So, if you have these set to extreme values,
> especially with high filter resonance, you'll get odd results. This is
> most noticeable, as you've found, with "ringing" notes in Sustain I
> mode. It could be made to work correctly with lots of ugly jumpers - oh
> - and 14 space KBC boards with the custom Yamaha DACs. Yes, you could
> do it with S/Hs instead, blah, blah. Not even worth thinking about
> without a new ASIC/processor board to replace the KAS, TKC, KBCs, SH, etc.
>
> David
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]