Yamaha CS80

Hi all,
after completing (9 months work...) the overhauling of the CS80, that is amazingly playing now, I have opened a friends' CS60, that doesn't work (as usual... :-)
I am surprised for finding in all of the the M-voice boards two ICs, named m51623p and m51628p, instead of the IC8 and IC9 IG00153 and IG00158...
Is this normal? BTW, no sign of desoldering. All of the traces are immaculate.
The machine is pristine, and only two voice seem to play some sounds...
If they are correct (a newer or elder series?) is any modification needed?
Thanks

Fernando

According to this site, it appears to be the same part number:
http://www.wdgreenhill.com/manu/yamaha_s.htm

--- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, "papinje" <fernandozarone@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
> after completing (9 months work...) the overhauling of the CS80, that is amazingly playing now, I have opened a friends' CS60, that doesn't work (as usual... :-)
> I am surprised for finding in all of the the M-voice boards two ICs, named m51623p and m51628p, instead of the IC8 and IC9 IG00153 and IG00158...
> Is this normal? BTW, no sign of desoldering. All of the traces are immaculate.
> The machine is pristine, and only two voice seem to play some sounds...
> If they are correct (a newer or elder series?) is any modification needed?
> Thanks
>
> Fernando
>

Regarding the voices not playing: check the contacts and conduction of all the (very thin...) wires running to the voice boards, if one them is faulty the entire voice might not sound anymore. I had it on my CS60; we could see that the KAS actually assigned a voice to play, but one of the voices didn't sound. One of the wires had a bad solder contact...

It's of tremendous help if you have one of these 'indicator' boards in your CS, that shows which voice is (or should be) playing:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/yamahacs80/photos/album/35984432/pic/list

Hope you'll find the problem!

Cheers,
Rainer

--- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, "Rainer" <rainer.keizer@...> wrote:
>
> According to this site, it appears to be the same part number:
> http://www.wdgreenhill.com/manu/yamaha_s.htm
>
> --- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, "papinje" <fernandozarone@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> > after completing (9 months work...) the overhauling of the CS80, that is amazingly playing now, I have opened a friends' CS60, that doesn't work (as usual... :-)
> > I am surprised for finding in all of the the M-voice boards two ICs, named m51623p and m51628p, instead of the IC8 and IC9 IG00153 and IG00158...
> > Is this normal? BTW, no sign of desoldering. All of the traces are immaculate.
> > The machine is pristine, and only two voice seem to play some sounds...
> > If they are correct (a newer or elder series?) is any modification needed?
> > Thanks
> >
> > Fernando

And you try buying one off them... these guys advertise as if they have everything. Then, when you try getting one off them they say they will have to "order one in"... maybe a year down the line (after you've chased and chased them - they won't contact you!) they then tell you it's unavailabe!

I don't know why they still keep people hopes up by putting those part numbers on their site. Very annoying...;c(

--- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, "Rainer" <rainer.keizer@...> wrote:
>
> According to this site, it appears to be the same part number:
> http://www.wdgreenhill.com/manu/yamaha_s.htm
>
> --- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, "papinje" <fernandozarone@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> > after completing (9 months work...) the overhauling of the CS80, that is amazingly playing now, I have opened a friends' CS60, that doesn't work (as usual... :-)
> > I am surprised for finding in all of the the M-voice boards two ICs, named m51623p and m51628p, instead of the IC8 and IC9 IG00153 and IG00158...
> > Is this normal? BTW, no sign of desoldering. All of the traces are immaculate.
> > The machine is pristine, and only two voice seem to play some sounds...
> > If they are correct (a newer or elder series?) is any modification needed?
> > Thanks
> >
> > Fernando
> >
>

That's what I suspected indeed. I just used the site to point out that at least those people indicate that the TS's part numbers should be the same as the IG..... ones :-)

If anyone should ever replace a VCO IC, make sure its "Rank" is within the tolerance limits described by Yamaha! otherwise the difference in temperature response will lead them to behave differently amongst each voice, so you can never tune your CS as close as otherwise would be possible.
http://www.cs80.com/docs/service_bulletin/cs-80_service_news_3.gif
http://www.cs80.com/docs/service_bulletin/cs-80_service_news_4.gif

--- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, "Quazimodo" <noddyspuncture@...> wrote:
>
> And you try buying one off them... these guys advertise as if they have everything. Then, when you try getting one off them they say they will have to "order one in"... maybe a year down the line (after you've chased and chased them - they won't contact you!) they then tell you it's unavailabe!
>
> I don't know why they still keep people hopes up by putting those part numbers on their site. Very annoying...;c(

Has anyone seen any failures of the "newer" unranked oscillators? I haven't, so far.

John Leimseider
Electronics Technician/ Technicien des instruments électroniques



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-----Original Message-----
From: yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com [mailto:yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Fernando Zarone
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 9:08 AM
To: yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [yamahacs80] IC m51623p ???

Thanks, friends,
yes, the ICs are the same; and they work, as seen on the oscilloscope at their outputs, so, fortunately, it could be a wire problem...
I'll let you know what happens...





Il giorno 25/ott/2011, alle ore 14:42, Rainer ha scritto:

> That's what I suspected indeed. I just used the site to point out that at least those people indicate that the TS's part numbers should be the same as the IG..... ones :-)
>
> If anyone should ever replace a VCO IC, make sure its "Rank" is within the tolerance limits described by Yamaha! otherwise the difference in temperature response will lead them to behave differently amongst each voice, so you can never tune your CS as close as otherwise would be possible.
> http://www.cs80.com/docs/service_bulletin/cs-80_service_news_3.gif
> http://www.cs80.com/docs/service_bulletin/cs-80_service_news_4.gif
>
> --- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, "Quazimodo" <noddyspuncture@...> wrote:
> >
> > And you try buying one off them... these guys advertise as if they have everything. Then, when you try getting one off them they say they will have to "order one in"... maybe a year down the line (after you've chased and chased them - they won't contact you!) they then tell you it's unavailabe!
> >
> > I don't know why they still keep people hopes up by putting those part numbers on their site. Very annoying...;c(
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

Thanks, friends,
yes, the ICs are the same; and they work, as seen on the oscilloscope at their outputs, so, fortunately, it could be a wire problem�
I'll let you know what happens...





Il giorno 25/ott/2011, alle ore 14:42, Rainer ha scritto:

> That's what I suspected indeed. I just used the site to point out that at least those people indicate that the TS's part numbers should be the same as the IG..... ones :-)
>
> If anyone should ever replace a VCO IC, make sure its "Rank" is within the tolerance limits described by Yamaha! otherwise the difference in temperature response will lead them to behave differently amongst each voice, so you can never tune your CS as close as otherwise would be possible.
> http://www.cs80.com/docs/service_bulletin/cs-80_service_news_3.gif
> http://www.cs80.com/docs/service_bulletin/cs-80_service_news_4.gif
>
> --- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, "Quazimodo" <noddyspuncture@...> wrote:
> >
> > And you try buying one off them... these guys advertise as if they have everything. Then, when you try getting one off them they say they will have to "order one in"... maybe a year down the line (after you've chased and chased them - they won't contact you!) they then tell you it's unavailabe!
> >
> > I don't know why they still keep people hopes up by putting those part numbers on their site. Very annoying...;c(
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I don't think we have the luxury of choosing and fine tuning the IG Osc IC's any more - or do we...? I always thought you'd go with the IC you managed to source and put up with it. It's not as though we have an abundance of choice and can be picky... or am I missing something...;c)

Cheerz,
TOM

--- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, "Rainer" <rainer.keizer@...> wrote:
>
> That's what I suspected indeed. I just used the site to point out that at least those people indicate that the TS's part numbers should be the same as the IG..... ones :-)
>
> If anyone should ever replace a VCO IC, make sure its "Rank" is within the tolerance limits described by Yamaha! otherwise the difference in temperature response will lead them to behave differently amongst each voice, so you can never tune your CS as close as otherwise would be possible.
> http://www.cs80.com/docs/service_bulletin/cs-80_service_news_3.gif
> http://www.cs80.com/docs/service_bulletin/cs-80_service_news_4.gif
>
> --- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, "Quazimodo" <noddyspuncture@> wrote:
> >
> > And you try buying one off them... these guys advertise as if they have everything. Then, when you try getting one off them they say they will have to "order one in"... maybe a year down the line (after you've chased and chased them - they won't contact you!) they then tell you it's unavailabe!
> >
> > I don't know why they still keep people hopes up by putting those part numbers on their site. Very annoying...;c(
>

I was thinking the same thing. It s eems to me tha t this means it is even more important to focus on tuning the instrument when it's in it s warm, working state. And later, during use, be prepared for it to s ound REALLY wonky when its first turned on, and twenty minutes later there will be pure polyphonic lushness.



jkjelec



"I don't think we have the luxury of choosing and fine tuning the IG Osc IC's any more - or do we...? I always thought you'd go with the IC you managed to source and put up with it. It's not as though we have an abundance of choice and can be picky... or am I missing something...;c)

Cheerz,
TOM"


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yes, the M5162*p ICs work as well as the corresponding IG****.
I don't know whether this is a last rev of the machine, but it is from the factory for sure. No sign of any soldering...
Now, the CS 60 (great condition) only plays the voice n.1 and the voice n. 8. Fortunately, I do have the simple LED device for detecting the triggered voice (thank you, CSers!) . In the M boards the oscilloscope shows the presence of the right waveforms, but from the VCA IC 4 stage to the output O. I mean, it seems to be a common problem of those voices, not related to the individual boards!
Any suggestion from the CS gurus?

All the best
Fernando




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The Yamaha IG chips were made by Mistubishi. The Mxxxx is the Mitsubishi part #. I've never seen the 153s just labeled with just the Mits part but almost all the 150s I have are. Are bad voices getting their key gates from the assigner?
Doug
synthparts.com

--- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, Fernando Zarone <fernandozarone@...> wrote:
>
> Yes, the M5162*p ICs work as well as the corresponding IG****.
> I don't know whether this is a last rev of the machine, but it is from the factory for sure. No sign of any soldering...
> Now, the CS 60 (great condition) only plays the voice n.1 and the voice n. 8. Fortunately, I do have the simple LED device for detecting the triggered voice (thank you, CSers!) . In the M boards the oscilloscope shows the presence of the right waveforms, but from the VCA IC 4 stage to the output O. I mean, it seems to be a common problem of those voices, not related to the individual boards!
> Any suggestion from the CS gurus?
>
> All the best
> Fernando
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Yes,
from KAS trigger points the voltage goes from positive to negative for each voice, the LEDS in the detector device light up regularly



Il giorno 26/ott/2011, alle ore 02:38, synthparts ha scritto:

> The Yamaha IG chips were made by Mistubishi. The Mxxxx is the Mitsubishi part #. I've never seen the 153s just labeled with just the Mits part but almost all the 150s I have are. Are bad voices getting their key gates from the assigner?
> Doug
> synthparts.com
>
> --- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, Fernando Zarone <fernandozarone@...> wrote:
> >
> > Yes, the M5162*p ICs work as well as the corresponding IG****.
> > I don't know whether this is a last rev of the machine, but it is from the factory for sure. No sign of any soldering...
> > Now, the CS 60 (great condition) only plays the voice n.1 and the voice n. 8. Fortunately, I do have the simple LED device for detecting the triggered voice (thank you, CSers!) . In the M boards the oscilloscope shows the presence of the right waveforms, but from the VCA IC 4 stage to the output O. I mean, it seems to be a common problem of those voices, not related to the individual boards!
> > Any suggestion from the CS gurus?
> >
> > All the best
> > Fernando
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]