Yamaha CS80

hmmm. the voices of bank I of my cs80 just went silent (altough some of them give a beep), bank II operates just fine.

I already was planning a service fresh up, including kenton midi install, but now i'm going to speed things up.

Does someone know what might happen here?

thanks for helping,

regards,

Alessandro

hmmm. perhaps i took a beer to much, i found out what was wrong... actualy its too embarrassing.. the FEET lever of bank I was in the middle of 16 and 8 wich produces nothing, you should try it it shocked me :)

Glad it turned out to be nothing

Cheers!

--- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, "Rescio" <alessandrorescio@...> wrote:
>
> hmmm. the voices of bank I of my cs80 just went silent (altough some of them give a beep), bank II operates just fine.
>
> I already was planning a service fresh up, including kenton midi install, but now i'm going to speed things up.
>
> Does someone know what might happen here?
>
> thanks for helping,
>
> regards,
>
> Alessandro
>

lol..... Been there..... did that... exactly....lol
-----Original message-----
From: "Rescio" alessandrorescio@...
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 14:09:37 -0600
To: yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [yamahacs80] Re: Horror!! voices of Bank I just completely
down

hmmm. perhaps i took a beer to much, i found out what was wrong...
actualy its too embarrassing.. the FEET lever of bank I was in the
middle of 16 and 8 wich produces nothing, you should try it it shocked
me :)

Glad it turned out to be nothing

Cheers!

--- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, "Rescio" wrote:
>
> hmmm. the voices of bank I of my cs80 just went silent (altough some
of them give a beep), bank II operates just fine.
>
> I already was planning a service fresh up, including kenton midi
install, but now i'm going to speed things up.
>
> Does someone know whatmight happen here?
>
> thanks for helping,
>
> regards,
>
> Alessandro
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

actually i love the sound that comes from sustaining a note
and switching octaves on the cs80. the wierd jump in between is kinda screechy and totally cool sounding to me....

--- On Fri, 10/23/09, Laurie Curry <laurie@...> wrote:

From: Laurie Curry <laurie@...>
Subject: [yamahacs80] Re: Horror!! voices of Bank I just completely down
To: yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, October 23, 2009, 7:45 PM












lol..... Been there..... did that... exactly....lol

-----Original message-----

From: "Rescio" alessandrorescio@ yahoo.com

Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 14:09:37 -0600

To: yamahacs80@yahoogro ups.com

Subject: [yamahacs80] Re: Horror!! voices of Bank I just completely

down



hmmm. perhaps i took a beer to much, i found out what was wrong...

actualy its too embarrassing. . the FEET lever of bank I was in the

middle of 16 and 8 wich produces nothing, you should try it it shocked

me :)



Glad it turned out to be nothing



Cheers!



--- In yamahacs80@yahoogro ups.com, "Rescio" wrote:

>

> hmmm. the voices of bank I of my cs80 just went silent (altough some

of them give a beep), bank II operates just fine.

>

> I already was planning a service fresh up, including kenton midi

install, but now i'm going to speed things up.

>

> Does someone know whatmight happen here?

>

> thanks for helping,

>

> regards,

>

> Alessandro

>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]































[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Probably the old CMOS inside going belly up... Digital IC's in the CS-80 use 1970's lithography. You have about 10-20 year lifespan.

Replace these chips with newly manufactured parts and you have potentially 100's if not 1000's of years. My CS-80 has a partially functioning Bank 2 (dead lower 2 octaves) and any repair that gets the instrument working doesn't last long. Aftertouch is flakey too.

So starting a video series showing a complete electronic restoration of my CS-80 and wanted to share with others. Will become important as a way to free these machines from constant service. First video is in on youtube: "Saving the CS-80".

The complexity and part count of this machine is overwhelming.

Sincerely,
Gavin

--- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, "Rescio" <alessandrorescio@...> wrote:
>
> hmmm. the voices of bank I of my cs80 just went silent (altough some of them give a beep), bank II operates just fine.
>
> I already was planning a service fresh up, including kenton midi install, but now i'm going to speed things up.
>
> Does someone know what might happen here?
>
> thanks for helping,
>
> regards,
>
> Alessandro
>

You fixed it. Ignore my doomsday scenario..lol.

Guess I am jealous that your machine is working ;)

You get to play on yours and mine is gutted open on the bench right now :(

--- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, "Rescio" <alessandrorescio@...> wrote:
>
> hmmm. the voices of bank I of my cs80 just went silent (altough some of them give a beep), bank II operates just fine.
>
> I already was planning a service fresh up, including kenton midi install, but now i'm going to speed things up.
>
> Does someone know what might happen here?
>
> thanks for helping,
>
> regards,
>
> Alessandro
>

lol well i already planned everything for servicing this weekend so mine is going on the bench as well ;)

But indeed the cmos are notorious, they all are replaced last year it's working great ever since. exept from some keys that lack velocity, aftertouch is working well. I had this before on others, it is not only fixed by cleaning but needs something else. But hey it can be fixed :)

getting Kenton midi as well, can't wait to arpeggiate a cs80, next service will be installing your wonderfull preset memory and auto tune to make the CS80 more immortal ;)

THX all,regards,

Alessandro

--- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, "gavincurtis" <gavincurtis@...> wrote:
>
> You fixed it. Ignore my doomsday scenario..lol.
>
> Guess I am jealous that your machine is working ;)
>
> You get to play on yours and mine is gutted open on the bench right now :(
>
> --- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, "Rescio" <alessandrorescio@> wrote:
> >
> > hmmm. the voices of bank I of my cs80 just went silent (altough some of them give a beep), bank II operates just fine.
> >
> > I already was planning a service fresh up, including kenton midi install, but now i'm going to speed things up.
> >
> > Does someone know what might happen here?
> >
> > thanks for helping,
> >
> > regards,
> >
> > Alessandro
> >
>

"screechy" -- yeah, exactly.

Eddie Jobson used this in A, from Jethro Tull (1980). The song was called "Batteries Not Included", and although not a favourite amongst Tull fans, it's high on my list of CS-80 tracks that show off the instrument.
Check out the link below (and go to 6.) to hear the beginning of the track where Eddie's doing the octave jumps whilst playing chords. It really gets your attention.

http://www.jr.com/product/music/pm/_518390/

Tommy

--- On Fri, 10/23/09, rj krohn <r_j_d_2.phila@...> wrote:


From: rj krohn <r_j_d_2.phila@...>
Subject: Re: [yamahacs80] Re: Horror!! voices of Bank I just completely down
To: yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, October 23, 2009, 6:53 PM






Actually I love the sound that comes from sustaining a note
and switching octaves on the cs80. the weird jump in between is kinda screechy and totally cool sounding to me....

--- On Fri, 10/23/09, Laurie Curry <laurie@ronchmusic. com> wrote:

From: Laurie Curry <laurie@ronchmusic. com>
Subject: [yamahacs80] Re: Horror!! voices of Bank I just completely down
To: yamahacs80@yahoogro ups.com
Date: Friday, October 23, 2009, 7:45 PM



lol..... Been there..... did that... exactly....lol

-----Original message-----

From: "Rescio" alessandrorescio@ yahoo.com

Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 14:09:37 -0600

To: yamahacs80@yahoogro ups.com

Subject: [yamahacs80] Re: Horror!! voices of Bank I just completely

down

hmmm. perhaps i took a beer to much, i found out what was wrong...

actualy its too embarrassing. . the FEET lever of bank I was in the

middle of 16 and 8 wich produces nothing, you should try it it shocked

me :)

Glad it turned out to be nothing

Cheers!

--- In yamahacs80@yahoogro ups.com, "Rescio" wrote:

>

> hmmm. the voices of bank I of my cs80 just went silent (altough some

of them give a beep), bank II operates just fine.

>

> I already was planning a service fresh up, including kenton midi

install, but now i'm going to speed things up.

>

> Does someone know whatmight happen here?

>

> thanks for helping,

>

> regards,

>

> Alessandro

>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Great video Gavin,

I can only find Part 2 however... where are parts 1 & 3..?

I am currently starting a re-cap of the PSU in my second CS80 (already done the first) and would like to ask, how important would it be to replace those dual op-amps?

I didn't replace those on my first unit when I did. Should I go back and do that one as well?

Cheers,
TOM

--- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, "gavincurtis" <gavincurtis@...> wrote:
>
> First video is in on youtube: "Saving the CS-80".
>

Thanks. :)

First and 3rd videos are are still being edited. Learning to use video editor software for the first time. Thrid part will be next on youtube hopefully in a few days. First part which in the the actual intro will follow... experimenting with some effects.

Then will be another 20+ or so videos to follow if I can keep up.

If you lose the primary regulating dual op-amp in the power-supply, you could lose regulation of +15 and -15 and possibile output at full rail voltage. Most chips in the keyboard cannot survive more than +18. This makes the two dual op-amps in the power supply the most critical set of integrated circuit devices in the entire keyboard. That's my opinion anyways.

The 4558 (dual op amps) are extremely reliable. But manufacturing processes in the 70's semiconductor industry were far less than ideal compared to today. Many of the early chips have short lifespans of 20-30 years. New ones last hundreds into the thousands of years. Don't know what fabrication process the originall 4558 op amps used, but since new units cost well under a dollar each, it's best to replace them.

While the power supply is apart, best to replace them with new for maximum reliability. Go with a known brand name such a National Semicondutor, Texas Instruments or Toshiba etc. Solder them to the board instead of sockets. Any other IC's you replace in the keyboard (aside from power supply) should have sockets as the boards in the CS-80 are single sided and relatively intolerant to much rework/repair.

--- On Sun, 10/25/09, Quazimodo <noddyspuncture@...> wrote:


From: Quazimodo <noddyspuncture@...>
Subject: [yamahacs80] Re: Horror!! voices of Bank I just completely down
To: yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, October 25, 2009, 1:45 PM






Great video Gavin,

I can only find Part 2 however... where are parts 1 & 3..?

I am currently starting a re-cap of the PSU in my second CS80 (already done the first) and would like to ask, how important would it be to replace those dual op-amps?

I didn't replace those on my first unit when I did. Should I go back and do that one as well?

Cheers,
TOM

--- In yamahacs80@yahoogro ups.com, "gavincurtis" <gavincurtis@ ...> wrote:
>
> First video is in on youtube: "Saving the CS-80".
>
















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, gavin curtis <gavincurtis@...> wrote:

> The 4558 (dual op amps) are extremely reliable.

I can't speak for Yamaha's 4558s, but I do a lot of work on Lexicon 224 reverbs which use RC4558s throughout their analogue circuitry and regularly have to change failed devices. Maybe Lexicon push them beyond where they were intended to go...

Cheers,

Steve L.

Concur, 4558's are among the most common ic I have to replace in vintage gear, probably a close second to CMOS 4051's.

Lucid.

----- Original Message -----
From: stevelenham
To: yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 10:13 AM
Subject: [yamahacs80] Re: Horror!! voices of Bank I just completely down


--- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, gavin curtis <gavincurtis@...> wrote:

> The 4558 (dual op amps) are extremely reliable.

I can't speak for Yamaha's 4558s, but I do a lot of work on Lexicon 224 reverbs which use RC4558s throughout their analogue circuitry and regularly have to change failed devices. Maybe Lexicon push them beyond where they were intended to go...

Cheers,

Steve L.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cheers for the reply Gavin,

My (newly recapped) PSU is still loose - although I have checked and set the voltages and done a prelminary tune-up.

I am now thinking of also changing those dual op-amps.

I have a few new TLO72CP and TLO72CN IC's

Would those do - and if so which should I go with please?

Many thanks again,
TOM

--- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, gavin curtis <gavincurtis@...> wrote:
>
> While the power supply is apart, best to replace them with new for maximum reliability. Go with a known brand name such a National Semicondutor, Texas Instruments or Toshiba etc. Solder them to the board instead of sockets. Any other IC's you replace in the keyboard (aside from power supply) should have sockets as the boards in the CS-80 are single sided and relatively intolerant to much rework/repair.
>