Yamaha CS80

To demonstrate the new MIDI cabilities of my CS80 (and for your
listening pleasure) I uploaded a bit of Claire de Lune.

I know it is not quite Tomita, but I hope you will enjoy it anyway =;-)

Worsel

Hey, thanks, I really appreciate this :)
I see the MIDI works great!

--- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, "slipperysoles" <slipperysoles@...>
wrote:

>
> To demonstrate the new MIDI cabilities of my CS80 (and for your
> listening pleasure) I uploaded a bit of Claire de Lune.
>
> I know it is not quite Tomita, but I hope you will enjoy it anyway =;-)
>
> Worsel
>

Oops, you were two songs away from Clair de Lune; what you have there is Prélude, the first piece from Suite Bergamasque. I like the way the CS sound you have sounds kind of Christmasy. Or maybe it was the piece all along and I never heard it in that light. 
It doesn't sound like a midi file, though, unless the quantization was never utilized, in order  to make it sound more like a human was playing it.
 
Thanks for sharing it with us, no matter what you call it, it's still a CS-80.
 
Tommy 

--- On Wed, 1/7/09, galaxiesmerge <galaxiesmerge@...> wrote:

From: galaxiesmerge <galaxiesmerge@...>
Subject: [yamahacs80] Re: Debussy and Kenton
To: yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 10:11 PM






Hey, thanks, I really appreciate this :)
I see the MIDI works great!

--- In yamahacs80@yahoogro ups.com, "slipperysoles" <slipperysoles@ ...>
wrote:
>
> To demonstrate the new MIDI cabilities of my CS80 (and for your
> listening pleasure) I uploaded a bit of Claire de Lune.
>
> I know it is not quite Tomita, but I hope you will enjoy it anyway =;-)
>
> Worsel
>


















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hey Tommy,

you are of course right. This is a one minute cut from the beginning
of Suite Bergamasque. If it sounds Christmasy it may have to do with
the way I cut the piano score and assigned the pieces to the CS80
sounds I have chosen.

Look forward to the Easter Bunny sound mix in a couple of weeks =;-)

Cheers
Worsel

--- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, Tommy Priakos <tpriakos@...> wrote:
>
> Oops, you were two songs away from Clair de Lune; what you have
there is Prélude, the first piece from Suite Bergamasque. I like the
way the CS sound you have sounds kind of Christmasy. Or maybe it was
the piece all along and I never heard it in that light. 
> It doesn't sound like a midi file, though, unless the quantization
was never utilized, in order  to make it sound more like a human was
playing it.
>  
> Thanks for sharing it with us, no matter what you call it, it's
still a CS-80.
>  
> Tommy 
>
> --- On Wed, 1/7/09, galaxiesmerge <galaxiesmerge@...> wrote:
>
> From: galaxiesmerge <galaxiesmerge@...>
> Subject: [yamahacs80] Re: Debussy and Kenton
> To: yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 10:11 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hey, thanks, I really appreciate this :)
> I see the MIDI works great!
>
> --- In yamahacs80@yahoogro ups.com, "slipperysoles" <slipperysoles@ ...>
> wrote:
> >
> > To demonstrate the new MIDI cabilities of my CS80 (and for your
> > listening pleasure) I uploaded a bit of Claire de Lune.
> >
> > I know it is not quite Tomita, but I hope you will enjoy it anyway
=;-)
> >
> > Worsel
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

--- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, "slipperysoles" <slipperysoles@...>
wrote:

>
> To demonstrate the new MIDI cabilities of my CS80 (and for your
> listening pleasure) I uploaded a bit of Claire de Lune.
>
> I know it is not quite Tomita, but I hope you will enjoy it anyway =;-

)

>
> Worsel
>

Beautiful!
You could tell us what preset you used for the different sounds?
The melody line with the portamento effects is wonderful, what you used?
The midi Kenton is "midi in" and "midi out"?

In the far background there is Strings3&4 playing the whole score

A few bass notes with Funky 1&4

The portamento lead sound right is
Organ 1 and just a sine wave on Panel 2 with Sustain II (and Portamento)

The lead sound left is Guitar 1 and just a sine wave on Panel 2

The brass sound is custom made. Heaven forgive me, I know I have to go
straight to hell for doing this: I took a patch from the CS80V and put
it on the CS80.

Unfortunately, the Kenton is just MIDI IN and THRU, so you cannot
record all the CS80's key action via MIDI which is a shame. If I find
the money I will get a VAX77.

Cheers
Worsel

--- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, "oberheim64" <tommysalsero@...> wrote:
>
> --- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, "slipperysoles" <slipperysoles@>
> wrote:
> >
> > To demonstrate the new MIDI cabilities of my CS80 (and for your
> > listening pleasure) I uploaded a bit of Claire de Lune.
> >
> > I know it is not quite Tomita, but I hope you will enjoy it anyway =;-
> )
> >
> > Worsel
> >
>
> Beautiful!
> You could tell us what preset you used for the different sounds?
> The melody line with the portamento effects is wonderful, what you used?
> The midi Kenton is "midi in" and "midi out"?
>

slipperysoles wrote:

> Unfortunately, the Kenton is just MIDI IN and THRU, so you cannot
> record all the CS80's key action via MIDI which is a shame. If I find
> the money I will get a VAX77.
>

I hope the VAX77 turns out great. In the meantime, for most CS80s that
I've added MIDI to, I've found Kurzweil MIDIBoards for the owners so
they can record performances with poly aftertouch. A MIDI kits with
MIDI out for the CS80 would be amazing, but I can't see anyone taking
the time and money to design and build them :(

David

--- David Rogoff <david@...> wrote:

they can record performances with poly aftertouch.

> A MIDI kits with
> MIDI out for the CS80 would be amazing, but I can't
> see anyone taking
> the time and money to design and build them :(
>
> David

The man for the job is Tony Karavidas of Encore
Electronics.

He was kicking around the idea of doing a CS80 retro
for a bit. Someone with better PR skills than myself
should see if we could rekindle the itch. I gladly
offer mine as guinea pig.

I'm not certain that an entire new CPU isn't in order-
along the lines of what's been done for the Rhodes
Chroma or over the last few years. We all want patch
memory and as much MIDI as possible. I suspect that
we'll never get to transmit the pressure data since
that seems to imply ADC on every channel, but on a
redesigned CPU board... [w]

Wayne Griffin wrote:

> --- David Rogoff <david@...> wrote:
>
> they can record performances with poly aftertouch.
> > A MIDI kits with
> > MIDI out for the CS80 would be amazing, but I can't
> > see anyone taking
> > the time and money to design and build them :(
> >
> > David
>
> The man for the job is Tony Karavidas of Encore
> Electronics.
>
> I'm not certain that an entire new CPU isn't in order-
> along the lines of what's been done for the Rhodes
> Chroma or over the last few years.

The CS80 doesn't have a processor. It has a custom keyboard scanner chip
and matching DAC. Everything else is a ton of standard little CMOS ICs.
All the CV routing and "patch" memory voltages are mixed and modulated
on lots of separate boards with tons of resistors and Yamaha VCA chips.

> We all want patch
> memory and as much MIDI as possible. I suspect that
> we'll never get to transmit the pressure data since
> that seems to imply ADC on every channel,

That's actually pretty easy - just a decent speed ADC with an 8-to-1 mux
in front.

> but on a
> redesigned CPU board... [w]
>

You'd have to start by replacing the KAS board. By the time you're done,
you're basically replacing all the circuit boards under the keyboard!
Believe me, I've seriously thought about this, but then I got better...

David

Here is blue-sky brainstorm (so forgive possible gross errors):

Patch Memory might done as follows:

1) Use a decent ADC / DAC pair in mapping the pots under the little
front panel to some resolution of memory (ex. 16 bit DACS/ADCS to
16-bit RAM for representing a Patch as an array of such values).
2) Make sure you do two sets for the upper and lower Memories
3) Connect that to a small single board micro-controller (like a small
basic or forth based single chip embeddable board)
4) Write the software (Ha! Nontrivial but quite doable!) to sample the
pots, store that, and then control a variable resistance ladder
(painful to build) or use a DAC (the control signals to the DAC will
set the "resistivity" so that the analog signal in, perhaps suitably
buffered, is output at the right levels, also perhaps suitable
buffered, to the controls that the pots originally controlled (ie.
we're just swapping out the pots).

Of course, if you trace into the actual voltage levels that the pots
control, then, you can do things like assignable velocity or touch
controls to, for example, patch "crossfading" (switching smoothly from
one patch to another). Else you would need to program that in
software (and you would need to sample the keyboard with a separate
processor in order to accomplish that seamlessly).

The MIDI part for midi input would need to feed the keyboard sampling
input circuitry because delving into the board structure beyond that
would be a massive job. The trick in engineering is to always work at
the level of interfaces and change that and not muck with the
underlying spaghetti of boards and wires.

For midi output, the solution exists (Kenton).

However, one would need a master control processor to manage
1) The patch memory and User Interface
2) The midi output sub-processor (with its associated ADC/DAC circuits)
3) Integrating the Kenton board

This is a non-trivial job.

Any comments on my blue-sky brainstorming is welcome :)

Thanks!

--- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, David Rogoff <david@...> wrote:
>
> Wayne Griffin wrote:
> > --- David Rogoff <david@...> wrote:
> >
> > they can record performances with poly aftertouch.
> > > A MIDI kits with
> > > MIDI out for the CS80 would be amazing, but I can't
> > > see anyone taking
> > > the time and money to design and build them :(
> > >
> > > David
> >
> > The man for the job is Tony Karavidas of Encore
> > Electronics.
> >
> > I'm not certain that an entire new CPU isn't in order-
> > along the lines of what's been done for the Rhodes
> > Chroma or over the last few years.
> The CS80 doesn't have a processor. It has a custom keyboard scanner
chip
> and matching DAC. Everything else is a ton of standard little CMOS ICs.
> All the CV routing and "patch" memory voltages are mixed and modulated
> on lots of separate boards with tons of resistors and Yamaha VCA chips.
> > We all want patch
> > memory and as much MIDI as possible. I suspect that
> > we'll never get to transmit the pressure data since
> > that seems to imply ADC on every channel,
> That's actually pretty easy - just a decent speed ADC with an 8-to-1
mux
> in front.
> > but on a
> > redesigned CPU board... [w]
> >
> You'd have to start by replacing the KAS board. By the time you're
done,
> you're basically replacing all the circuit boards under the keyboard!
> Believe me, I've seriously thought about this, but then I got better...
>
> David
>

Worsel wrote: The brass sound is custom made. Heaven forgive me, I know I have to go
straight to hell for doing this: I took a patch from the CS80V and put it on the CS80.
 
The SCANDAL of it all!
Ha! That's like the daughter teaching the mother a new trick.
 
Now that you've gotten over the humiliation of revealing this abomination (or have you?), what's your take on how the sound translated, sonically, from the offspring back to the parent?
 
Hey, aren't you glad you have both so you can do this sort of experimenting?  Not many CS-80V-ers have this luxury. I've done it the other way around: taken a sound I concocted on the CS-80 and tried it on the V. There was some "agreement", but the actual EQ of the CS-80 had a richer sonority in some octaves than the V, and I don't think the sound card was the reason for that.
 
Tommy

--- On Thu, 1/8/09, slipperysoles <slipperysoles@...> wrote:

From: slipperysoles <slipperysoles@...>
Subject: [yamahacs80] Re: Debussy and Kenton
To: yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 9:58 AM






In the far background there is Strings3&4 playing the whole score

A few bass notes with Funky 1&4

The portamento lead sound right is
Organ 1 and just a sine wave on Panel 2 with Sustain II (and Portamento)

The lead sound left is Guitar 1 and just a sine wave on Panel 2

The brass sound is custom made. Heaven forgive me, I know I have to go
straight to hell for doing this: I took a patch from the CS80V and put
it on the CS80.

Unfortunately, the Kenton is just MIDI IN and THRU, so you cannot
record all the CS80's key action via MIDI which is a shame. If I find
the money I will get a VAX77.

Cheers
Worsel

--- In yamahacs80@yahoogro ups.com, "oberheim64" <tommysalsero@ ...> wrote:
>
> --- In yamahacs80@yahoogro ups.com, "slipperysoles" <slipperysoles@ >
> wrote:
> >
> > To demonstrate the new MIDI cabilities of my CS80 (and for your
> > listening pleasure) I uploaded a bit of Claire de Lune.
> >
> > I know it is not quite Tomita, but I hope you will enjoy it anyway =;-
> )
> >
> > Worsel
> >
>
> Beautiful!
> You could tell us what preset you used for the different sounds?
> The melody line with the portamento effects is wonderful, what you used?
> The midi Kenton is "midi in" and "midi out"?
>


















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- David Rogoff <david@...> wrote:

> You'd have to start by replacing the KAS board. By
> the time you're done,
> you're basically replacing all the circuit boards

Can anyone come forward with how the Kenton retrofit
board works? What signals are tied to what?