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Auto-tuner / tuner assist idea

Auto-tuner / tuner assist idea

2008-09-15 by David Rogoff

Hi all.

Well, we had out CS80 BBQ yesterday. It was a good time with lots of
noise :^). More on that later.

Toward the end of the afternoon, we were talking (actually, Scott M.
was requesting/begging) about some kind of auto-tuner for the beast. I
thought about a few ways to do it, but then I realized I have a few
others things to do in the next couple of years, so I dropped the
plan. However, I have thought of a pretty simple board that could be
mounted in the CS80 to really speed up the manual tuning procedure and
not require any external tuner or test equipment.

I've put a scan of my first sketch here: http://launch.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/yamahacs80/photos/browse/68f7?
c=

Quick explanation: I grab the 8 trigger/gate signals and convert them
to binary with a 4532 (this whole thing uses the same 4000-series CMOS
chips that are already used all over the CS80). One place this goes is
a 4511, which drives a 7-segment LED display, showing you a number
from 0 through 7 for which pair of board is triggered. If you hit more
than one key at a time, all bets are off!

The binary code also controls the 4051 8-to-1 muxes in the upper
right, which are wired with the pulse outputs from each voice card.
Therefore, you automatically select the correct oscillators. (I just
realized, since only one key is allowed to be hit at a time, the muxes
can just be OR gates). These go through a couple of 4013 flip-flops
which turn them into nice, clean square waves at octave down.

Next, at the bottom of the page, we've got a crystal tuning reference
(could include a jack for an external reference??). This is divided
down to all the required octave for tuning. Another pair of 4051s pick
the correct octave automatically based on the Feet switches.

Finally, in the circuit above this, the oscillator outputs are X-ORed
(digital ring-mod - easy to hear/see beat frequency) with the
reference tone. These drive red/green LEDs that show the beat
frequency. Also, a pair of switches allow sending the oscillator,
reference tone, or X-OR tone from either channel to an audio output.
This lets you hear the tones, which can help with tuning, especially
if the oscillators are way off.

Comments? Criticisms? Suggestions? Would this be something people
would want to install in their keyboards? It would probably mount
inside the front panel, near the Feet switches.

More later,

David

RE: [yamahacs80] Auto-tuner / tuner assist idea

2008-09-16 by Scott Metzger

You can only hit one key at a time? How do you tune the 8th voice?I am a little confused to this process. Can you explain the process without the tech? It looks interesting. Would I basically have a trim pot control on the front that allows me to tune by ear? What ever it takes, I am totally up for it. To: yamahacs80@yahoogroups.comFrom: david@...: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 23:44:16 +0000Subject: [yamahacs80] Auto-tuner / tuner assist idea


















Hi all.

Well, we had out CS80 BBQ yesterday. It was a good time with lots of
noise :^). More on that later.

Toward the end of the afternoon, we were talking (actually, Scott M.
was requesting/begging) about some kind of auto-tuner for the beast. I
thought about a few ways to do it, but then I realized I have a few
others things to do in the next couple of years, so I dropped the
plan. However, I have thought of a pretty simple board that could be
mounted in the CS80 to really speed up the manual tuning procedure and
not require any external tuner or test equipment.

I've put a scan of my first sketch here: http://launch.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/yamahacs80/photos/browse/68f7?
c=

Quick explanation: I grab the 8 trigger/gate signals and convert them
to binary with a 4532 (this whole thing uses the same 4000-series CMOS
chips that are already used all over the CS80). One place this goes is
a 4511, which drives a 7-segment LED display, showing you a number
from 0 through 7 for which pair of board is triggered. If you hit more
than one key at a time, all bets are off!

The binary code also controls the 4051 8-to-1 muxes in the upper
right, which are wired with the pulse outputs from each voice card.
Therefore, you automatically select the correct oscillators. (I just
realized, since only one key is allowed to be hit at a time, the muxes
can just be OR gates). These go through a couple of 4013 flip-flops
which turn them into nice, clean square waves at octave down.

Next, at the bottom of the page, we've got a crystal tuning reference
(could include a jack for an external reference??). This is divided
down to all the required octave for tuning. Another pair of 4051s pick
the correct octave automatically based on the Feet switches.

Finally, in the circuit above this, the oscillator outputs are X-ORed
(digital ring-mod - easy to hear/see beat frequency) with the
reference tone. These drive red/green LEDs that show the beat
frequency. Also, a pair of switches allow sending the oscillator,
reference tone, or X-OR tone from either channel to an audio output.
This lets you hear the tones, which can help with tuning, especially
if the oscillators are way off.

Comments? Criticisms? Suggestions? Would this be something people
would want to install in their keyboards? It would probably mount
inside the front panel, near the Feet switches.

More later,

David























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [yamahacs80] Auto-tuner / tuner assist idea

2008-09-16 by rj krohn

thanks for putting the thought into this, david. im in the same boat as scott; i dont understand the nuts and bolts, but i could be interested in this as a functional device for tuning. as far as panel mounting, i wouldnt be willing to mod the front panel of mine, though, so i would have to find another place to put it.


Show quoted textHide quoted text
--- On Mon, 9/15/08, David Rogoff <david@...> wrote:
From: David Rogoff <david@...>
Subject: [yamahacs80] Auto-tuner / tuner assist idea
To: yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, September 15, 2008, 7:44 PM











Hi all.



Well, we had out CS80 BBQ yesterday. It was a good time with lots of

noise :^). More on that later.



Toward the end of the afternoon, we were talking (actually, Scott M.

was requesting/begging) about some kind of auto-tuner for the beast. I

thought about a few ways to do it, but then I realized I have a few

others things to do in the next couple of years, so I dropped the

plan. However, I have thought of a pretty simple board that could be

mounted in the CS80 to really speed up the manual tuning procedure and

not require any external tuner or test equipment.



I've put a scan of my first sketch here: http://launch. ph.groups. yahoo.com/ group/yamahacs80 /photos/browse/ 68f7?

c=



Quick explanation: I grab the 8 trigger/gate signals and convert them

to binary with a 4532 (this whole thing uses the same 4000-series CMOS

chips that are already used all over the CS80). One place this goes is

a 4511, which drives a 7-segment LED display, showing you a number

from 0 through 7 for which pair of board is triggered. If you hit more

than one key at a time, all bets are off!



The binary code also controls the 4051 8-to-1 muxes in the upper

right, which are wired with the pulse outputs from each voice card.

Therefore, you automatically select the correct oscillators. (I just

realized, since only one key is allowed to be hit at a time, the muxes

can just be OR gates). These go through a couple of 4013 flip-flops

which turn them into nice, clean square waves at octave down.



Next, at the bottom of the page, we've got a crystal tuning reference

(could include a jack for an external reference??) . This is divided

down to all the required octave for tuning. Another pair of 4051s pick

the correct octave automatically based on the Feet switches.



Finally, in the circuit above this, the oscillator outputs are X-ORed

(digital ring-mod - easy to hear/see beat frequency) with the

reference tone. These drive red/green LEDs that show the beat

frequency. Also, a pair of switches allow sending the oscillator,

reference tone, or X-OR tone from either channel to an audio output.

This lets you hear the tones, which can help with tuning, especially

if the oscillators are way off.



Comments? Criticisms? Suggestions? Would this be something people

would want to install in their keyboards? It would probably mount

inside the front panel, near the Feet switches.



More later,



David





























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [yamahacs80] Auto-tuner / tuner assist idea

2008-09-16 by Scott Metzger

David can you explain how the tuning would work without the technical stuff?

I think installing it right next to that ugly Kenton switch would be a good place for it.

And can we add spinning fans right under the vents?

J/K about the last part.

hahha

-Scott
________________________________
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> To: yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com
> From: r_j_d_2.phila@...
> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 17:23:10 -0700
> Subject: Re: [yamahacs80] Auto-tuner / tuner assist idea
>
>
> thanks for putting the thought into this, david. im in the same boat as scott; i dont understand the nuts and bolts, but i could be interested in this as a functional device for tuning. as far as panel mounting, i wouldnt be willing to mod the front panel of mine, though, so i would have to find another place to put it.
>
> --- On Mon, 9/15/08, David Rogoff wrote:
> From: David Rogoff
> Subject: [yamahacs80] Auto-tuner / tuner assist idea
> To: yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Monday, September 15, 2008, 7:44 PM
>
> Hi all.
>
> Well, we had out CS80 BBQ yesterday. It was a good time with lots of
>
> noise :^). More on that later.
>
> Toward the end of the afternoon, we were talking (actually, Scott M.
>
> was requesting/begging) about some kind of auto-tuner for the beast. I
>
> thought about a few ways to do it, but then I realized I have a few
>
> others things to do in the next couple of years, so I dropped the
>
> plan. However, I have thought of a pretty simple board that could be
>
> mounted in the CS80 to really speed up the manual tuning procedure and
>
> not require any external tuner or test equipment.
>
> I've put a scan of my first sketch here: http://launch. ph.groups. yahoo.com/ group/yamahacs80 /photos/browse/ 68f7?
>
> c=
>
> Quick explanation: I grab the 8 trigger/gate signals and convert them
>
> to binary with a 4532 (this whole thing uses the same 4000-series CMOS
>
> chips that are already used all over the CS80). One place this goes is
>
> a 4511, which drives a 7-segment LED display, showing you a number
>
> from 0 through 7 for which pair of board is triggered. If you hit more
>
> than one key at a time, all bets are off!
>
> The binary code also controls the 4051 8-to-1 muxes in the upper
>
> right, which are wired with the pulse outputs from each voice card.
>
> Therefore, you automatically select the correct oscillators. (I just
>
> realized, since only one key is allowed to be hit at a time, the muxes
>
> can just be OR gates). These go through a couple of 4013 flip-flops
>
> which turn them into nice, clean square waves at octave down.
>
> Next, at the bottom of the page, we've got a crystal tuning reference
>
> (could include a jack for an external reference??) . This is divided
>
> down to all the required octave for tuning. Another pair of 4051s pick
>
> the correct octave automatically based on the Feet switches.
>
> Finally, in the circuit above this, the oscillator outputs are X-ORed
>
> (digital ring-mod - easy to hear/see beat frequency) with the
>
> reference tone. These drive red/green LEDs that show the beat
>
> frequency. Also, a pair of switches allow sending the oscillator,
>
> reference tone, or X-OR tone from either channel to an audio output.
>
> This lets you hear the tones, which can help with tuning, especially
>
> if the oscillators are way off.
>
> Comments? Criticisms? Suggestions? Would this be something people
>
> would want to install in their keyboards? It would probably mount
>
> inside the front panel, near the Feet switches.
>
> More later,
>
> David
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

Re: [yamahacs80] Auto-tuner / tuner assist idea

2008-09-16 by David Rogoff

Scott Metzger wrote:
> David can you explain how the tuning would work without the technical stuff?
>
> I think installing it right next to that ugly Kenton switch would be a good place for it.
>
Ok - in English:

First, I was planning on mounting it on the inside of the front panel:
no holes/drilling/etc. You have to open up the top to get to all the
tuning knobs anyway.

Next, you would follow the tuning guide, which is basically the following:
1) Set Feet to 2'
2) Tune oscillator on highest A
3) Tune oscillator on lowest A
4) Repeat 3 for 4', 8', and 16'

The board I described lets you easily do the tuning step because of few
things:
1) Has built-in tuning reference
2) Shows beat frequency on red/green LED. Kind of a simplified strobe-tuner.
3) Also allows hearing this beat frequency and/or reference tone/oscillator.
4) Has display to tell you which voice is sounding

Re: [yamahacs80] Auto-tuner / tuner assist idea

2008-09-16 by rj krohn

ahh, thanks david. on second thought, i've got a good strobe tuning situation, so i PERSONALLY probably wouldnt implement it, but im sure there are people who would.

the element of it that i WOULD love to have is the lighted indicator for each voice. its bothersome to turn on/off each time i lose track or double-trigger a key. thanks-rj



Show quoted textHide quoted text
--- On Tue, 9/16/08, David Rogoff <david@...> wrote:
From: David Rogoff <david@...>
Subject: Re: [yamahacs80] Auto-tuner / tuner assist idea
To: yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, September 16, 2008, 12:29 PM











Scott Metzger wrote:

> David can you explain how the tuning would work without the technical stuff?

>

> I think installing it right next to that ugly Kenton switch would be a good place for it.

>

Ok - in English:



First, I was planning on mounting it on the inside of the front panel:

no holes/drilling/ etc. You have to open up the top to get to all the

tuning knobs anyway.



Next, you would follow the tuning guide, which is basically the following:

1) Set Feet to 2'

2) Tune oscillator on highest A

3) Tune oscillator on lowest A

4) Repeat 3 for 4', 8', and 16'



The board I described lets you easily do the tuning step because of few

things:

1) Has built-in tuning reference

2) Shows beat frequency on red/green LED. Kind of a simplified strobe-tuner..

3) Also allows hearing this beat frequency and/or reference tone/oscillator..

4) Has display to tell you which voice is sounding



























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [yamahacs80] Auto-tuner / tuner assist idea

2008-09-17 by Scott Metzger

Sweet! I am up for it.

Let me know what we have to do. I have been working out, so I think I can handle moving the synth again. hahaha

-Scott

________________________________
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> To: yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com
> From: david@...
> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 09:29:49 -0700
> Subject: Re: [yamahacs80] Auto-tuner / tuner assist idea
>
>
> Scott Metzger wrote:
>> David can you explain how the tuning would work without the technical stuff?
>>
>> I think installing it right next to that ugly Kenton switch would be a good place for it.
>>
> Ok - in English:
>
> First, I was planning on mounting it on the inside of the front panel:
> no holes/drilling/etc. You have to open up the top to get to all the
> tuning knobs anyway.
>
> Next, you would follow the tuning guide, which is basically the following:
> 1) Set Feet to 2'
> 2) Tune oscillator on highest A
> 3) Tune oscillator on lowest A
> 4) Repeat 3 for 4', 8', and 16'
>
> The board I described lets you easily do the tuning step because of few
> things:
> 1) Has built-in tuning reference
> 2) Shows beat frequency on red/green LED. Kind of a simplified strobe-tuner.
> 3) Also allows hearing this beat frequency and/or reference tone/oscillator.
> 4) Has display to tell you which voice is sounding
>
>