Yamaha CS80

Hi,

first of all: A Happy New Year to everybody!

Now I have my CS-80 standing here - undamaged - thanks to the great packing
(double boxes!) and shipping from Scott Rider.

I want to convert it to 240V now. (It's a 117V American model.)

Electrically, nothing could be easier. The wires are colour coded (except
for one discrepancy of Blue vs. Brown).
But I have my doubts about the mechanical part.

So my question is: how hard is it to do this voltage conversion?
The unused wires from the mains transformer are so short that I fear I have
to completely remove the power supply block to get access ...
How hard is that? I'm afraid with removing and re-installing that heavy
block, some wire contacts may break ...

The alternative, of course, is to simply leave it as it is and to use an
external step-down transformer.
This will cost some money, but at the point I am now (buying synth, paying
for shipping and customs and VAT), just a little more money won't make a
difference.

So, what should I do? Convert the synth or go for a step-down transformer?
What have *you* done with your imported CS-80s ?

In case of step-down: has anybody used an autotransformer? (If I'm not
mistaken, I'd get away with a 100W rated auto transformer for the CS-80's
180W of power consumption, no?)

Any advice welcome.

JH.

Hi JH

I would just run her on a step-down until you can get someone with
experience to do this conversion for you (KSR if your UK based). Kent at
KSR might respond to this thread anyway but his email is:
kent_spong@...

RS Components make a good step-down which I have used many times in the past
(SAT 300)…this unit rated at 300W is my recommendation and they cost around
£45 + Vat and shipping which is much less than repairing a fried CS80 and a
full course of anti-depressants...

Regards

Richard Lawson

www.rlmusic.co.uk

Tel: +44 (0) 1189 472474

Mobile: +44 (0) 7986 470853



From: yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com [mailto:yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of JH.
Sent: 01 January 2008 13:11
To: yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [yamahacs80] CS-80 mains voltage conversion advice?

Hi,

first of all: A Happy New Year to everybody!

Now I have my CS-80 standing here - undamaged - thanks to the great packing
(double boxes!) and shipping from Scott Rider.

I want to convert it to 240V now. (It's a 117V American model.)

Electrically, nothing could be easier. The wires are colour coded (except
for one discrepancy of Blue vs. Brown).
But I have my doubts about the mechanical part.

So my question is: how hard is it to do this voltage conversion?
The unused wires from the mains transformer are so short that I fear I have
to completely remove the power supply block to get access ...
How hard is that? I'm afraid with removing and re-installing that heavy
block, some wire contacts may break ...

The alternative, of course, is to simply leave it as it is and to use an
external step-down transformer.
This will cost some money, but at the point I am now (buying synth, paying
for shipping and customs and VAT), just a little more money won't make a
difference.

So, what should I do? Convert the synth or go for a step-down transformer?
What have *you* done with your imported CS-80s ?

In case of step-down: has anybody used an autotransformer? (If I'm not
mistaken, I'd get away with a 100W rated auto transformer for the CS-80's
180W of power consumption, no?)

Any advice welcome.

JH.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

yea, i second this. it makes sense on a number of fronts-if you ever(god forbid) had to sell your 80, you can sell that transformer as well. much better to have a stock 80 than a modded one then.

and of course, there's always the opportunities that mods give for problems/mistakes/etc. i think your sanity is worth the 100 bucks you may drop on a good TF. get one rated for 3 or 4X your wattage.



rlmusic <rlmusic@...> wrote: Hi JH

I would just run her on a step-down until you can get someone with
experience to do this conversion for you (KSR if your UK based). Kent at
KSR might respond to this thread anyway but his email is:
kent_spong@...

RS Components make a good step-down which I have used many times in the past
(SAT 300)�this unit rated at 300W is my recommendation and they cost around
�45 + Vat and shipping which is much less than repairing a fried CS80 and a
full course of anti-depressants...

Regards

Richard Lawson

www.rlmusic.co.uk

Tel: +44 (0) 1189 472474

Mobile: +44 (0) 7986 470853



From: yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com [mailto:yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of JH.
Sent: 01 January 2008 13:11
To: yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [yamahacs80] CS-80 mains voltage conversion advice?

Hi,

first of all: A Happy New Year to everybody!

Now I have my CS-80 standing here - undamaged - thanks to the great packing
(double boxes!) and shipping from Scott Rider.

I want to convert it to 240V now. (It's a 117V American model.)

Electrically, nothing could be easier. The wires are colour coded (except
for one discrepancy of Blue vs. Brown).
But I have my doubts about the mechanical part.

So my question is: how hard is it to do this voltage conversion?
The unused wires from the mains transformer are so short that I fear I have
to completely remove the power supply block to get access ...
How hard is that? I'm afraid with removing and re-installing that heavy
block, some wire contacts may break ...

The alternative, of course, is to simply leave it as it is and to use an
external step-down transformer.
This will cost some money, but at the point I am now (buying synth, paying
for shipping and customs and VAT), just a little more money won't make a
difference.

So, what should I do? Convert the synth or go for a step-down transformer?
What have *you* done with your imported CS-80s ?

In case of step-down: has anybody used an autotransformer? (If I'm not
mistaken, I'd get away with a 100W rated auto transformer for the CS-80's
180W of power consumption, no?)

Any advice welcome.

JH.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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Hi Juergen, Richard..

Happy new guys.. I was under the impression that a 110V CS80 couldnt be
converted to 240V. I had my CS80 restored by Kent (KSR) and thats what he
told me.

Btw, does anyone have any hum on their chorus/ tremolo section when engaged?
Mine hums real bad and im sure its not supposed to be like that!

Congrats on the CS80 btw Juergen, what a nice christmas present ehh! ;)
Have fun!

All the best,
Rob.

> Hi JH
>
> I would just run her on a step-down until you can get someone with
> experience to do this conversion for you (KSR if your UK based). Kent at
> KSR might respond to this thread anyway but his email is:
> kent_spong@...
>
> RS Components make a good step-down which I have used many times in the past
> (SAT 300)…this unit rated at 300W is my recommendation and they cost around
> £45 + Vat and shipping which is much less than repairing a fried CS80 and a
> full course of anti-depressants...
>
> Regards
>
> Richard Lawson
>
> www.rlmusic.co.uk
>
> Tel: +44 (0) 1189 472474
>
> Mobile: +44 (0) 7986 470853
>
>
>
> From: yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com [mailto:yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of JH.
> Sent: 01 January 2008 13:11
> To: yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [yamahacs80] CS-80 mains voltage conversion advice?
>
> Hi,
>
> first of all: A Happy New Year to everybody!
>
> Now I have my CS-80 standing here - undamaged - thanks to the great packing
> (double boxes!) and shipping from Scott Rider.
>
> I want to convert it to 240V now. (It's a 117V American model.)
>
> Electrically, nothing could be easier. The wires are colour coded (except
> for one discrepancy of Blue vs. Brown).
> But I have my doubts about the mechanical part.
>
> So my question is: how hard is it to do this voltage conversion?
> The unused wires from the mains transformer are so short that I fear I have
> to completely remove the power supply block to get access ...
> How hard is that? I'm afraid with removing and re-installing that heavy
> block, some wire contacts may break ...
>
> The alternative, of course, is to simply leave it as it is and to use an
> external step-down transformer.
> This will cost some money, but at the point I am now (buying synth, paying
> for shipping and customs and VAT), just a little more money won't make a
> difference.
>
> So, what should I do? Convert the synth or go for a step-down transformer?
> What have *you* done with your imported CS-80s ?
>
> In case of step-down: has anybody used an autotransformer? (If I'm not
> mistaken, I'd get away with a 100W rated auto transformer for the CS-80's
> 180W of power consumption, no?)
>
> Any advice welcome.
>
> JH.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Regards,
Rob Belcher
www.myspace.com/duplx

>and of course, there's always the opportunities that mods give for
>problems/mistakes/etc. i think your sanity is worth the 100 bucks you may
> >drop on a good TF. get one rated for 3 or 4X your wattage.

Yeah, the more I think about it the more it makes sense to run it on a
step-down; even if I'll actually convert it to European voltage later on.

> get one rated for 3 or 4X your wattage.

Won't this cause overvoltage? With the copper resistance being compensated
for nominal output voltage at _nominal_ load?

What I had in mind was something like that:

Get an oversized toroidial with 230V center tapped primary, and somthing
like 2 x 5V secondaries.
Then use the primary side as a step-down autotransformer, and (if necessary)
use the secondaries to fine-adjust the output voltage by connecting one or
both in series to the upper or lower half of the primary.

Good idea? Bad idea?

JH.



rlmusic <rlmusic@...> wrote: Hi JH

I would just run her on a step-down until you can get someone with
experience to do this conversion for you (KSR if your UK based). Kent at
KSR might respond to this thread anyway but his email is:
kent_spong@...

RS Components make a good step-down which I have used many times in the
past
(SAT 300)�this unit rated at 300W is my recommendation and they cost
around
�45 + Vat and shipping which is much less than repairing a fried CS80 and
a
full course of anti-depressants...

Regards

Richard Lawson

www.rlmusic.co.uk

Tel: +44 (0) 1189 472474

Mobile: +44 (0) 7986 470853



From: yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com [mailto:yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of JH.
Sent: 01 January 2008 13:11
To: yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [yamahacs80] CS-80 mains voltage conversion advice?

Hi,

first of all: A Happy New Year to everybody!

Now I have my CS-80 standing here - undamaged - thanks to the great packing
(double boxes!) and shipping from Scott Rider.

I want to convert it to 240V now. (It's a 117V American model.)

Electrically, nothing could be easier. The wires are colour coded (except
for one discrepancy of Blue vs. Brown).
But I have my doubts about the mechanical part.

So my question is: how hard is it to do this voltage conversion?
The unused wires from the mains transformer are so short that I fear I have
to completely remove the power supply block to get access ...
How hard is that? I'm afraid with removing and re-installing that heavy
block, some wire contacts may break ...

The alternative, of course, is to simply leave it as it is and to use an
external step-down transformer.
This will cost some money, but at the point I am now (buying synth, paying
for shipping and customs and VAT), just a little more money won't make a
difference.

So, what should I do? Convert the synth or go for a step-down transformer?
What have *you* done with your imported CS-80s ?

In case of step-down: has anybody used an autotransformer? (If I'm not
mistaken, I'd get away with a 100W rated auto transformer for the CS-80's
180W of power consumption, no?)

Any advice welcome.

JH.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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> I was under the impression that a 110V CS80 couldnt be
> converted to 240V. I had my CS80 restored by Kent (KSR) and thats what he
> told me.

Well I don't have a 110V version - the plate clearly says 117V.
And there's a lot of extra cables coming out of the mains transformer.

But OTOH the British, European and North European Specs show the use of an
extra contact block where all the incoming 3 mains wires go thru. Maybe this
contact block (or whatever it is), is missing in the other versions, which
certainly makes conversion more difficult.
And then again, the Australian Spec appears to run on 240V also, but without
that extra contact block ...

JH.

I prefer to mod gear to whatever voltage I am running it off of only
when I plan to haul the synth around.. the CS80 will more then likely
sit in your studio in which case the extra bulk of an external
transformer really makes no difference.

plus its nice to have the transformer in case you buy/service any
other gear that requires the conversion.

I'm looking forward to the mods you develop for your new synth. I
just got a CS80 myself and its still blowing my mind on a daily basis

happy new year
-rick






-- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, "JH." <jhaible@...> wrote:

>
> > I was under the impression that a 110V CS80 couldnt be
> > converted to 240V. I had my CS80 restored by Kent (KSR) and thats

what he

> > told me.
>
> Well I don't have a 110V version - the plate clearly says 117V.
> And there's a lot of extra cables coming out of the mains transformer.
>
> But OTOH the British, European and North European Specs show the use

of an

> extra contact block where all the incoming 3 mains wires go thru.

Maybe this

> contact block (or whatever it is), is missing in the other versions,

which

> certainly makes conversion more difficult.
> And then again, the Australian Spec appears to run on 240V also, but

without

> that extra contact block ...
>
> JH.
>

110 vs. 117, IMO same thing. most US voltages hover from 112-120 on a meter anyway.

i think you are complicating this further than you need to. i would not concern yourself with feeding any secondary voltages; your CS80 wants to be fed a steady 110/117VAC, no more no less. i would not build a unit if i were you. i would just buy a standalone unit that steps 240v down to 120v/110v, with an output that has at A MINIMUM 2X the wattage/amperage the 80 is rated for. preferably 3 to 4X.

TMK, i dont know of how a PSU that is rated for a higher current draw than it will need to supply could possibly damage a synth. has this ever happened? i could be wrong, but ive never heard of it. a properly built PSU should not have a high voltage fluctuation due to high amperage rating. if you try to draw more current from a PSU than it wants toa give, you are going to see problems. very bad idea.



"JH." <jhaible@...> wrote: > I was under the impression that a 110V CS80 couldnt be

> converted to 240V. I had my CS80 restored by Kent (KSR) and thats what he
> told me.

Well I don't have a 110V version - the plate clearly says 117V.
And there's a lot of extra cables coming out of the mains transformer.

But OTOH the British, European and North European Specs show the use of an
extra contact block where all the incoming 3 mains wires go thru. Maybe this
contact block (or whatever it is), is missing in the other versions, which
certainly makes conversion more difficult.
And then again, the Australian Spec appears to run on 240V also, but without
that extra contact block ...

JH.






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> TMK, i dont know of how a PSU that is rated for a higher current draw than
> it will need to supply could possibly damage a synth.

Damage would be the worst case - but I wasn't thinking about damage.
What I want is to run the synth at a mains voltage high enough for the DC
regulators to work properly, with some reserve for capacitor ageing - but
not much above that voltage. To keep the losses in the voltage regulators
and in the transformer iron low. I don't have experience with the 80, so I'm
eagerly listening to you and others who have worked on them, and I'm glad to
hear that things are not as complicated as I tend to make them.

>i would just buy a standalone unit that steps 240v down to 120v/110v, with
>an output that has at A MINIMUM 2X the wattage/amperage the >80 is rated
>for. preferably 3 to 4X.

I understood that you recommended this, but I'd love to understand *why* you
recommend to oversize it. Normally, a transformer gives its rated secondary
voltage at the rated current. To compensate for its copper losses, the turns
ratio is slighly bigger than calculated ideally, so the secondary voltage is
*higher* than rated when the load draws only 1/2 or 1/4 of the rated
current. Of course, when the nominal secondary voltage is 110V, I might end
up at 117, and be just fine ... But then again, maybe not.

Thinking of it again, maybe the Yamaha synths aren't so sensitive about
mains voltage. My CS-50 and CS-60 don't hum, even though they are running at
230V instead of the 220V they were intended for. I'm probably oversensitive
because the bad experience with other brands. (My Prophet 5 used to hum like
mad with a slightly too high mains voltage and 50Hz.)
But heat is an issue, isn't it? One of the prevuious owners has put a fan
(!) on top of the mains transformer. (With a switch to turn it off,
fortunetely.)

I'll probably buy a ready-made stepdown box and return it if there's too
much hum or heat.

Thanks again for all the good advice.

JH.

JH-i think we're moving backwards here.

you are talking about voltage overage.

i never ONCE suggested such.

i mentioned CURRENT overage.

why? because everything that you own that runs on electricity PERIOD is designed to NOT draw more current than the PSU that supplies its CURRENT.

house, car, synth-you name it.

whether something runs hot, cold, whatever is not a good way to gauge how well its working. for example, you cs80 runs somewhat warm to the touch. this is normal.

you should assess a PSU on how stable it holds its voltage and how much current is being drawn vs. how much CAN be drawn on it, not how hot it gets. voltmeter beats palm test every time.

and you definitely dont want to plug in your cs80 until you know exactly what it needs, and what you are about to give it.




"JH." <jhaible@...> wrote: > TMK, i dont know of how a PSU that is rated for a higher current draw than

> it will need to supply could possibly damage a synth.

Damage would be the worst case - but I wasn't thinking about damage.
What I want is to run the synth at a mains voltage high enough for the DC
regulators to work properly, with some reserve for capacitor ageing - but
not much above that voltage. To keep the losses in the voltage regulators
and in the transformer iron low. I don't have experience with the 80, so I'm
eagerly listening to you and others who have worked on them, and I'm glad to
hear that things are not as complicated as I tend to make them.

>i would just buy a standalone unit that steps 240v down to 120v/110v, with
>an output that has at A MINIMUM 2X the wattage/amperage the >80 is rated
>for. preferably 3 to 4X.

I understood that you recommended this, but I'd love to understand *why* you
recommend to oversize it. Normally, a transformer gives its rated secondary
voltage at the rated current. To compensate for its copper losses, the turns
ratio is slighly bigger than calculated ideally, so the secondary voltage is
*higher* than rated when the load draws only 1/2 or 1/4 of the rated
current. Of course, when the nominal secondary voltage is 110V, I might end
up at 117, and be just fine ... But then again, maybe not.

Thinking of it again, maybe the Yamaha synths aren't so sensitive about
mains voltage. My CS-50 and CS-60 don't hum, even though they are running at
230V instead of the 220V they were intended for. I'm probably oversensitive
because the bad experience with other brands. (My Prophet 5 used to hum like
mad with a slightly too high mains voltage and 50Hz.)
But heat is an issue, isn't it? One of the prevuious owners has put a fan
(!) on top of the mains transformer. (With a switch to turn it off,
fortunetely.)

I'll probably buy a ready-made stepdown box and return it if there's too
much hum or heat.

Thanks again for all the good advice.

JH.






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>you are talking about voltage overage.
>i never ONCE suggested such.
>i mentioned CURRENT overage.

Right - but on a transformer, the two are linked, because of the
resisistance of its windings.
Normally, you have a full-load voltage specified, and an off-load voltage.
If you're running it at a light load, you're closer to the off-load spec
than the full-load spec.

But to get back to practical matters, I've looked up the specs for a random
picked 500VA transformer. Full-load voltage and off-load voltage only differ
by 4% - we certainly can live with *that*.

>you should assess a PSU on how stable it holds its voltage and how much
>current is being drawn vs. how much CAN be drawn on it, not how >hot it
>gets. voltmeter beats palm test every time.

Wait a minute - were you talking about a regulated AC PSU, and not a simple
transformer?
With active electronics inside that regulates the amplitude of the AC output
? (But these have other problems.)

JH.

yea, i was talking about a dedicated PSU, not just a x-former. i think that's your best bet. over here in the states, i believe mouser.com sells many different varieties. not sure what you've got across the pond-maybe someone else can weigh in?

ok, now i see your voltage concerns. that makes sense.

"JH." <jhaible@...> wrote: >you are talking about voltage overage.

>i never ONCE suggested such.
>i mentioned CURRENT overage.

Right - but on a transformer, the two are linked, because of the
resisistance of its windings.
Normally, you have a full-load voltage specified, and an off-load voltage.
If you're running it at a light load, you're closer to the off-load spec
than the full-load spec.

But to get back to practical matters, I've looked up the specs for a random
picked 500VA transformer. Full-load voltage and off-load voltage only differ
by 4% - we certainly can live with *that*.

>you should assess a PSU on how stable it holds its voltage and how much
>current is being drawn vs. how much CAN be drawn on it, not how >hot it
>gets. voltmeter beats palm test every time.

Wait a minute - were you talking about a regulated AC PSU, and not a simple
transformer?
With active electronics inside that regulates the amplitude of the AC output
? (But these have other problems.)

JH.






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