Yamaha CS80

Hi all,

Just uploaded pic's of the KSR workshop with ten CS80's under
restoation in it, and some other gear for that matter.

Kent

One more than Vangelis owns altogether...

Stephen

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----- Original Message -----
From: kent_spong
To: yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 9:10 PM
Subject: [yamahacs80] Ten CS80's


Hi all,

Just uploaded pic's of the KSR workshop with ten CS80's under
restoation in it, and some other gear for that matter.

Kent





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, "kent_spong" <kent_spong@...> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Just uploaded pic's of the KSR workshop with ten CS80's under
> restoation in it, and some other gear for that matter.

Kent, what country is this? UK? And are the CS80's from normal
everyday people or studios or name musicians? What is the range for a
CS80 repair/restoration these days?

Inquiring minds;^)

-Jim
--
Jim Combs

Atlanta's Creative Loafing Best of 2005 & 2007 "Best Local Electronic Act"

Buy my Sensitive Chaos "Leak" CD at http://cdbaby.com/sensitivechaos

"I highly recommend Leak for its inventiveness, its beat-happy
effervescence, and its thorough lack of pretension, not to mention
it's just a flat out fun album from start to finish." - Bill
Binkelman, New Age Reporter

www.myspace.com/jimcombs
www.sensitivechaos.com
www.myspace.com/sensitivechaos
www.myspace.com/atlsongwriters

Hi Kent,
the extra pcb's mounted inside that opened CS80, under the keybed. Is
that only Kenton's midikit or is there more going on ? Maybe your own
midikit hehe?
And at the far left, I think there's even more hidden behind the brown
shield ?
I don't dare to ask, do you still enjoy restoring CS80's ? It's ten
times a lot of work ;-)

--- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, "kent_spong" <kent_spong@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> Just uploaded pic's of the KSR workshop with ten CS80's under
> restoation in it, and some other gear for that matter.
>
> Kent
>

cap values, if i remember correctly, are:
2X 5600mfd/40v
22mfd/16v
2X1000mfd/25v
2X220/16v
2X220/25v

of course best to check the actual unit......

dont know if this would help or not, but i'd be willing to throw my newbie-grade advice toward a tuning job done WITHOUT the help of the LED's....naturally old crows site has the most comprehensive resources, but i think there were 1 or 2 things i would have done differently...let me know guys if that would be of interest, or we could all pool any helpful tips we've had.

erikfromhere <moogsynthex@...> wrote: Hi Kent,
the extra pcb's mounted inside that opened CS80, under the keybed. Is
that only Kenton's midikit or is there more going on ? Maybe your own
midikit hehe?
And at the far left, I think there's even more hidden behind the brown
shield ?
I don't dare to ask, do you still enjoy restoring CS80's ? It's ten
times a lot of work ;-)

--- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, "kent_spong" <kent_spong@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> Just uploaded pic's of the KSR workshop with ten CS80's under
> restoation in it, and some other gear for that matter.
>
> Kent
>





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yes please let us know what you'd have done differently, I'm
interested for one..;^)

Cheers
Tom

--- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, rj krohn <r_j_d_2.phila@...> wrote:
....naturally old crows site has the most comprehensive resources, but
i think there were 1 or 2 things i would have done differently...let
me know guys if that would be of interest, or we could all pool any
helpful tips we've had.

ok, here are my additions to the old crow/service manual instructions, those MUST be read first, as im not gonna repeat them. make sure you read all these over before starting, as #5 and #7 bears on the whole process:

(FIRST A DISCLAIMER-THIS IS TIME CONSUMING, FRUSTRATING, AND POTENTIALLY DAMAGING IF YOU DO NOT KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE DOING. IF YOU HAVE THE LUXURY, HIRE A TECH. THIS IS ONLY FOR THOSE WHO DO NOT HAVE THAT LUXURY. IF THIS IS YOUR FIRST TIME TUNING A SYNTH, I WOULD ADVISE AGAINST IT. TUNE A ROGUE OR SOMETHING FIRST, THEN MOVE ON TO THIS. PLASTIC TUNING STICK A MUST. THIS IS IN NO WAY MEANT TO TAKE THE PLACE OF HIRING A TECH, THOSE GUYS ARE PROS AND KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING!!! BUT, OF COURSE, A CS80 IS AN EXCEPTION, AS SHIPPING IS NOT ALWAYS SENSIBLE. HENCE, MY 2 CENTS):

1-biggest thing for me-do NOT move on to octaves 4,8,16 until you are ABSOLUTELY sure that you got the SCALING right on octave 2. service manual explains this, its steps 8 and 9 i believe. you will just be wasting your time and have to go back and do it over. i did this wrong(didnt spend enough time getting scaling exactly right) and wasted an hour tuning voices i had to redo. do this as many times as you possibly need to until its right, then move on to other octaves. back and forth, C4 using top tiny little blue pot, the C1 using 2nd pot from top.

2- if you have a laptop, KATSURA makes a $15 strobe tuner plug-in. i used it, and its 100000000% better than the korg chromatic guitar tuners. completely worth it. do not use it as mic, use the line-in, preferably in ADDITION to listening.(dont think i could have done it without haviing BOTH).

3-i did ALL the voices with a strobe tuner INDEPENDENTLY, not tuning voice 1 osc 1 to voice 1 osc 2, but by only listening to each osc at a time. follow service manual instructions for panel settings, worked good for me. of course, ring mod/sub osc off. THEN, i lowered the voice board, and closed the hood. i left the machine on for 1/2 hr, and then did step #4:

4-using a graph chart, as well as the strobe tuner, i went through each voice(now using both oscs) and listened for dissonance/beats. when i got to a voice that had "beats"/was off, by flipping the mix pot up and down and looking at the strobe tuner, i could tell which osc was # or flat. i then wrote that down in my graph chart. so, under voice 3, osc 2, if it were off, i would put a symbol there. when i was done, i opened her back up, and went to those voices, and tuned by EAR for no beats.(the chart helps cause you want to make sure you are tuning the right osc, voice 1 in tune w/ itself does no good if its not in tune w/ voice 2.)
this gave me a surprisingly accurate tuning when i was done.

5-a word on voice 8. i did not know this, so i again wasted time on this and had to go back, but if you press and depress 1 key on a cs80 8 times, it will scroll through voices 1-7, and then start back at 7. it leaves voice 8 in reserve until you play it polyphonically. cause of this, i found it easiest to scale/tune all the voices 1-7 first because you can just push a single note. i used a twist tie, shaped it like a noose, and jammed it in between a key to make it stick. then i have both hands free to tune the osc. once 1-7 was done, i would turn it off, hit panel, hold down 1 voice, then hit another voice 7 times, release the first key, and voila-you are hearing osc 8 by itself. this is just what worked for me, you may have better luck with another technique.

6-actually, having 2 twist ties in noose shape was hugely helpful, cause if i ever needed to keep 2 keys depressed, this did the trick.

7-dunno if others have this experience, but my voices were not in the seats that the manual said they would be. for me, voice 1 osc 1 was somewhere around 24 or so, voice 2 osc 1 being 23, 22, 21,etc. voice 1 osc 2 was around 12 or 13, voice 2 osc 2 being ,11,10,9,etc. they were all in blocks of 8. but moved left to right, whereas the cards are labeled right to left. i put a big piece of masking tape across the bottom of the whole assembly and wrote out each voice in sharpie. this was hugely helpful as you are doing alot of looking back and forth, and having quick reference point is really helpful instead of counting up to 6 each time. ugh, that would have sucked.

naturally, you want to avoid temp fluctuations. i didnt have much problems with this, my voices seemed to be pretty close to the same outside//vs inside the hoode. but there are tips on the net about how to keep this at bay. REMEMBER, NOTHING METAL COMES NEAR ANYTHING RELATED TO A VOICE CARD/KAS BOARD/ETC. VERY IMPORTANT!! ENJOY!! GOOD LUCK!!(wow, a properly tuned cs80 is the most amazing synth experience ive ever had. 45 minutes will feel like 5, trust me-watch out for the wife!)

Quazimodo <noddyspuncture@...> wrote: Yes please let us know what you'd have done differently, I'm
interested for one..;^)

Cheers
Tom

--- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, rj krohn <r_j_d_2.phila@...> wrote:
....naturally old crows site has the most comprehensive resources, but
i think there were 1 or 2 things i would have done differently...let
me know guys if that would be of interest, or we could all pool any
helpful tips we've had.





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

rj krohn wrote:

Thanks Tom - good timing on this. I just had a CS80 dropped off
yesterday for a tuning. Most of it went quickly, but a couple of the
tuning trim pots appear to have corroded and don't work. I need to pick
up some replacements.

> 1-biggest thing for me-do NOT move on to octaves 4,8,16 until you are ABSOLUTELY sure that you got the SCALING right on octave 2.
>

Definitely agree on this! One question about this (Crow? Kent?): the
tuning guide says to tune and scale using A4 (the highest A key) and A1
(the lowest). However, in the service manual, around the M-card
schematics, it says to use the highest and lowest C. I'd think this
would be better and I'm guessing they wrote A in the tuning guide since
it's a nicer frequency to spot on a counter. However, I think we're all
using strobe or chromatic tuners.

> 2- if you have a laptop, KATSURA makes a $15 strobe tuner plug-in. i used it, and its 100000000% better than the korg chromatic guitar tuners. completely worth it. do not use it as mic, use the line-in, preferably in ADDITION to listening.(dont think i could have done it without haviing BOTH).
>

That sounds great. Oops - Mac only :(

> 3-i did ALL the voices with a strobe tuner INDEPENDENTLY, not tuning voice 1 osc 1 to voice 1 osc 2, but by only listening to each osc at a time. follow service manual instructions for panel settings, worked good for me. of course, ring mod/sub osc off. THEN, i lowered the voice board, and closed the hood. i left the machine on for 1/2 hr, and then did step #4:
>
> 4-using a graph chart, as well as the strobe tuner, i went through each voice(now using both oscs) and listened for dissonance/beats.

Can't argue with success. This would work much better with the gate
LEDs I added. Otherwise, it's very hard to track which voice you're
playing. You have to keep turning it off and back on to reset to voice
one. Instead, I put a heater in the room and crank it up for a while
until the air is pretty hot. Then, the difference with the unit opened
up shouldn't be too great. I guess it's worse for early units with the
old VCO chips.

>
> 5-a word on voice 8. i did not know this
>

Pretty simple, once you know the trick

> 6-actually, having 2 twist ties in noose shape was hugely helpful, cause if i ever needed to keep 2 keys depressed, this did the trick.
>
> 7-dunno if others have this experience, but my voices were not in the seats that the manual said they would be.

I don't pay attention to the slot numbers. It's really easy to find the
cards. The first group of 8 are 1 through 8 (left to right) for channel
1. The next group is channel 2. Sometimes I take an indelible pen and
write the board names on the metal frame they're screwed into.

Happy tuning!

David

Were these the cap values for the power supply?

--- rj krohn <r_j_d_2.phila@...> wrote:

> cap values, if i remember correctly, are:
> 2X 5600mfd/40v
> 22mfd/16v
> 2X1000mfd/25v
> 2X220/16v
> 2X220/25v
>
> of course best to check the actual unit......
>
> dont know if this would help or not, but i'd be
> willing to throw my newbie-grade advice toward a
> tuning job done WITHOUT the help of the
> LED's....naturally old crows site has the most
> comprehensive resources, but i think there were 1 or
> 2 things i would have done differently...let me know
> guys if that would be of interest, or we could all
> pool any helpful tips we've had.
>
> erikfromhere <moogsynthex@...> wrote:
> Hi Kent,
> the extra pcb's mounted inside that opened CS80,
> under the keybed. Is
> that only Kenton's midikit or is there more going
> on ? Maybe your own
> midikit hehe?
> And at the far left, I think there's even more
> hidden behind the brown
> shield ?
> I don't dare to ask, do you still enjoy restoring
> CS80's ? It's ten
> times a lot of work ;-)
>
> --- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, "kent_spong"
> <kent_spong@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Just uploaded pic's of the KSR workshop with ten
> CS80's under
> > restoation in it, and some other gear for that
> matter.
> >
> > Kent
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>

____________________________________________________________________________________
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FYI,

here's all the old and new caps when I re-did mine:
http://launch.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/yamahacs80/photos/browse/7a56

For most, I used the same value cap with greater-or-equal voltage
rating. For the big 5600uF, I used 6800uF that were higher voltage and
half the size. The thing to watch for is that the old 5600uF have three
leads. Two are connected together - the third was just for physical
mounting. The 6800uF I found had the correct spacing to fit in two of
the holes in the board. Make sure you use the right two! Also, for all
the polarized caps, make sure you get the correct polarity!!!

David



Wayne Griffin wrote:

> Were these the cap values for the power supply?
>
> --- rj krohn <r_j_d_2.phila@...> wrote:
>
>
>> cap values, if i remember correctly, are:
>> 2X 5600mfd/40v
>> 22mfd/16v
>> 2X1000mfd/25v
>> 2X220/16v
>> 2X220/25v
>>
>> of course best to check the actual unit......
>>
>>

yes, the smartest way to do this in regards to polarity is to write them on the circuit board before you take out the old ones...i hate those boards that dont have polarity printed on them, synthex the same way!

David Rogoff <david@...> wrote: FYI,

here's all the old and new caps when I re-did mine:
http://launch.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/yamahacs80/photos/browse/7a56

For most, I used the same value cap with greater-or-equal voltage
rating. For the big 5600uF, I used 6800uF that were higher voltage and
half the size. The thing to watch for is that the old 5600uF have three
leads. Two are connected together - the third was just for physical
mounting. The 6800uF I found had the correct spacing to fit in two of
the holes in the board. Make sure you use the right two! Also, for all
the polarized caps, make sure you get the correct polarity!!!

David

Wayne Griffin wrote:

> Were these the cap values for the power supply?
>
> --- rj krohn <r_j_d_2.phila@...> wrote:
>
>
>> cap values, if i remember correctly, are:
>> 2X 5600mfd/40v
>> 22mfd/16v
>> 2X1000mfd/25v
>> 2X220/16v
>> 2X220/25v
>>
>> of course best to check the actual unit......
>>
>>

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