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Yamaha CS80

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Re: [yamahacs80] New file uploaded to yamahacs80

Re: [yamahacs80] New file uploaded to yamahacs80

2007-01-29 by laurie

I also added a photo album titled CS80 Adjustments .....
here is the link
http://launch.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/yamahacs80/photos/browse/a8d5

yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com wrote:

>
> Hello,
>
> This email message is a notification to let you know that
> a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the yamahacs80
> group.
>
> File : /cs80_1.jpg
> Uploaded by : slammah2006 <laurie@...>
> Description : CS80 Schematics
>
> You can access this file at the URL:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/yamahacs80/files/cs80_1.jpg
>
> To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
> http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files
>
> Regards,
>
> slammah2006 <laurie@...>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [yamahacs80] New file uploaded to yamahacs80

2007-01-29 by laurie

I had to delete this one.........It was the wrong file

yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com wrote:

>
> Hello,
>
> This email message is a notification to let you know that
> a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the yamahacs80
> group.
>
> File : /The Ol'LadyDancin.mp3
> Uploaded by : slammah2006 <laurie@...>
> Description : Keyb.control Filter dance between lo mid high zones
>
> You can access this file at the URL:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/yamahacs80/files/The%20Ol%27LadyDancin.mp3
>
> To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
> http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files
>
> Regards,
>
> slammah2006 <laurie@...>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [yamahacs80] New file uploaded to yamahacs80

2007-01-29 by Max Fazio

Thx Laurie!!
M
----- Original Message -----
From: laurie
To: yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 2:34 AM
Subject: Re: [yamahacs80] New file uploaded to yamahacs80


I also added a photo album titled CS80 Adjustments .....
here is the link
http://launch.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/yamahacs80/photos/browse/a8d5

yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com wrote:

>
> Hello,
>
> This email message is a notification to let you know that
> a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the yamahacs80
> group.
>
> File : /cs80_1.jpg
> Uploaded by : slammah2006 <laurie@...>
> Description : CS80 Schematics
>
> You can access this file at the URL:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/yamahacs80/files/cs80_1.jpg
>
> To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
> http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files
>
> Regards,
>
> slammah2006 <laurie@...>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [yamahacs80] New file uploaded to yamahacs80

2007-01-31 by Tommy Priakos

Laurie, thanks for posting that mp3. I look forward to hearing the other file.
Your CS sounds like it's in excellent playing shape.

Tommy


laurie <laurie@...> wrote:
I had to delete this one.........It was the wrong file

yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com wrote:

>
> Hello,
>
> This email message is a notification to let you know that
> a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the yamahacs80
> group.
>
> File : /The Ol'LadyDancin.mp3
> Uploaded by : slammah2006 <laurie@...>
> Description : Keyb.control Filter dance between lo mid high zones
>
> You can access this file at the URL:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/yamahacs80/files/The%20Ol%27LadyDancin.mp3
>
> To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
> http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files
>
> Regards,
>
> slammah2006 <laurie@...>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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Re: [yamahacs80] New file uploaded to yamahacs80

2008-01-06 by rj krohn

sure thing-if ANY of the cs80(or any synth that needs tuning) owners out there have a mac laptop with an "audio in" jack-i think they all do-i would strongly suggest the $15 Katsura digital strobe tuner program. if you set your comp for "line in" under audio, this tuner is as rock solid as any $400 rackmount tuner. especially if you have a way to listen as well as run the line in, its really great.

it has saved me lots of time on tuning synths across the board. with the cs80, it was especially helpful cause i could close the hood, let it warm up, and then just go through and test every voice on the tuner and write down EXACTLY how many cents it was off. this gave me a quantifiable way to tell the difference between where the OSC's are with the hood up vs. down.


"JH." <jhaible@...> wrote: >You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/yamahacs80/files/cs80%20tuning%20tips.pdf

That sounds very helpful, especially the last paragraph about the final
corrections.

Thank you!

JH.






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Re: [yamahacs80] New file uploaded to yamahacs80

2008-01-06 by JH.

I don't have a strobe tuner, nor a laptop.
But I have this MAM rackmount tuner with a resolution of 0 - 3 - 5 - 10 -
20 - ... cents.
And it's even possible to read in-between values, like the "0" LED being on
alongside with the "3" LED.
Actually, with a CS-80 VCO on spot, the 0 cent LED glows, and the -3 and +3
cent LEDs slowly take turns glowing.

Is this good enough? (I don't know the Korg tuners, I just heard that Stefan
designed that MAM tuner with the design goal to beat the Korg tuners.)

JH.

----- Original Message -----
From: "rj krohn" <r_j_d_2.phila@...>
To: <yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 2:44 PM
Subject: Re: [yamahacs80] New file uploaded to yamahacs80


sure thing-if ANY of the cs80(or any synth that needs tuning) owners out
there have a mac laptop with an "audio in" jack-i think they all do-i would
strongly suggest the $15 Katsura digital strobe tuner program. if you set
your comp for "line in" under audio, this tuner is as rock solid as any $400
rackmount tuner. especially if you have a way to listen as well as run the
line in, its really great.

it has saved me lots of time on tuning synths across the board. with the
cs80, it was especially helpful cause i could close the hood, let it warm
up, and then just go through and test every voice on the tuner and write
down EXACTLY how many cents it was off. this gave me a quantifiable way to
tell the difference between where the OSC's are with the hood up vs. down.


"JH." <jhaible@...> wrote: >You can
access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/yamahacs80/files/cs80%20tuning%20tips.pdf

That sounds very helpful, especially the last paragraph about the final
corrections.

Thank you!

JH.






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Re: [yamahacs80] New file uploaded to yamahacs80

2008-01-06 by rj krohn

IMO, the korg tuners blow for synths. before this strobe tuner, id rather use my ears than the korg tuner for the FINE tuning of an osc.

good enough is a relative term.

what i love about this strobe tuner is that the difference between 1,2,3,4 cents is plain as day. when we are talking about "beating" between osc's, that's the range we are talking about. but it sounds like your rack tuner has good resolution. my issue with the korg is that on synths, it jumps around too much. you cant tell what its trying to say.

another approach to tuning the CS80 would be:
1- to do all 8 voices at 2', and get the range as good as you can.
2-tune voice 1 down the next 3 octaves.
3-tune voices 2-8 by ear on the last 3 octaves by holding down voice 1, then depressing voices sequentially.

just another thought. best of luck.

"JH." <jhaible@...> wrote: I don't have a strobe tuner, nor a laptop.
But I have this MAM rackmount tuner with a resolution of 0 - 3 - 5 - 10 -
20 - ... cents.
And it's even possible to read in-between values, like the "0" LED being on
alongside with the "3" LED.
Actually, with a CS-80 VCO on spot, the 0 cent LED glows, and the -3 and +3
cent LEDs slowly take turns glowing.

Is this good enough? (I don't know the Korg tuners, I just heard that Stefan
designed that MAM tuner with the design goal to beat the Korg tuners.)

JH.

----- Original Message -----
From: "rj krohn" <r_j_d_2.phila@...>
To: <yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 2:44 PM
Subject: Re: [yamahacs80] New file uploaded to yamahacs80

sure thing-if ANY of the cs80(or any synth that needs tuning) owners out
there have a mac laptop with an "audio in" jack-i think they all do-i would
strongly suggest the $15 Katsura digital strobe tuner program. if you set
your comp for "line in" under audio, this tuner is as rock solid as any $400
rackmount tuner. especially if you have a way to listen as well as run the
line in, its really great.

it has saved me lots of time on tuning synths across the board. with the
cs80, it was especially helpful cause i could close the hood, let it warm
up, and then just go through and test every voice on the tuner and write
down EXACTLY how many cents it was off. this gave me a quantifiable way to
tell the difference between where the OSC's are with the hood up vs. down.

"JH." <jhaible@...> wrote: >You can
access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/yamahacs80/files/cs80%20tuning%20tips.pdf

That sounds very helpful, especially the last paragraph about the final
corrections.

Thank you!

JH.

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [yamahacs80] New file uploaded to yamahacs80

2008-01-06 by JH.

> but it sounds like your rack tuner has good resolution. my issue with the
> korg is that on synths, it jumps around too much. you cant tell what > its
> trying to say.

I ran into problems. As I have to tune the highest octave first, and it's
higher than on my CS-50, I didn't notice this before:
The MAM tuner has difficulties to "catch" there.

(The MAM is great for My Korg PS3200 clone, even for alternative tuning -
but there all the octaves are linked, and I don't have to do the highest
first.)

I guess next thing I'll try is a frequency counter.

JH.

tuning

2008-01-06 by erikfromhere

I tune my CS80's (about once or twice a year) by ear. I use a digital
synth, tuned to A440Hz to tune one channel (8 voices). I just press
the key mentioned in the Yamaha adjustment manual on that synth and
use a sustain-pedal to sustain that note. Then, I adjust the CS80
trimmers to get zero beating. For the second channel, I use the first
channel for reference, keep the room warm and put a towel on top of
the boards to keep the heat there. Tuning goes quickly and efficient
that way

I noticed just one problem on one of my CS80 while tuning: I can't
get the reference voltage (adjusting vr3 BA-board) to 4,0 V. It's at
3,96V so it's out of spec. I need to turn the fine-tune-knob quit a
bit to achieve 4V so I didn't. Now, 2 voices have reached the limit
of there vr6 (16'). I could change (lower) the fixed resistance (80k)
folowwing vr6 by 1K but first I would like to know why I can't get
that reference voltage to spec. Any idea somebody ?
However, I can't remember me repeating steps 8 and 9 of the tuning
procedure, so maybe something went wrong over there...

At this moment, that CS80 is in tune, but next time I'm afraid I'll
have to lower that resistors to 79k if I don't find another cause.

By the way, page 41 of the service manual mentions wrong resistor-
values for the transposition gates. For instance, it says 160K fixed
and 4k variable for vr6 but it should be 80k and 2k. The large fold-
out schematics are correct in that aspect.

Still, I find it amazing that 16 voiceboards stay in tune for such a
long time, without autotuning. Great job, Yamaha !

Re: [yamahacs80] tuning

2008-01-06 by JH.

> keep the room warm and put a towel on top of
> the boards to keep the heat there. Tuning goes quickly and efficient
> that way

Another great idea!

>I noticed just one problem on one of my CS80 while tuning: I can't
>get the reference voltage (adjusting vr3 BA-board) to 4,0 V. It's at
>3,96V so it's out of spec. I need to turn the fine-tune-knob quit a
>bit to achieve 4V so I didn't.

Is your -15.0V supply correct? Asking because the 4V are derived from that.

JH.

Re: [yamahacs80] New file uploaded to yamahacs80

2008-01-11 by rj krohn

JH, i love it! its great. im assuming its 2 tracks, right? such a beautiful instrument. i can play mine til my arms hurt, and still love listening to it anywhere. does it beckon for your attention more than anything else in your studio? mine does....



"JH." <jhaible@...> wrote: Just playing around a little. That's the kind of aftertouch control I've
been dreaming of all my life. :)
All under the control of the fingertips on the keyboard. (The only other
edit in this sample is changing the VCA attack time of section I.)

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/yamahacs80/files/jh_cs80_1_1.mp3

JH.






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Re: [yamahacs80] New file uploaded to yamahacs80

2008-01-12 by Tommy Priakos

That was lovely, JH, it brought a real contented smile to my face.
I noticed some of your keys double-trigger the notes like mine does.
How can we fix that?
Tommy


----- Original Message ----
From: "yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com" <yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com>
To: yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 2:37:31 PM
Subject: [yamahacs80] New file uploaded to yamahacs80


Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the yamahacs80
group.

File : /jh_cs80_1_1. mp3
Uploaded by : dark_november2000 <jhaible@debitel. net>
Description : trying the aftertouch of my new CS-80

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/yamahacs80 /files/jh_ cs80_1_1. mp3

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help. yahoo.com/ l/us/yahoo/ groups/original/ members/web/ index.htmlfiles

Regards,

dark_november2000 <jhaible@debitel. net>






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Re: [yamahacs80] New file uploaded to yamahacs80

2008-01-12 by rj krohn

yes, some of mine double trigger also-only at low to medium velocity. i would love to know how to fix that as well.

Tommy Priakos <tpriakos@...> wrote: That was lovely, JH, it brought a real contented smile to my face.
I noticed some of your keys double-trigger the notes like mine does.
How can we fix that?
Tommy

----- Original Message ----
From: "yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com" <yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com>
To: yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 2:37:31 PM
Subject: [yamahacs80] New file uploaded to yamahacs80

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the yamahacs80
group.

File : /jh_cs80_1_1. mp3
Uploaded by : dark_november2000 <jhaible@debitel. net>
Description : trying the aftertouch of my new CS-80

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/yamahacs80 /files/jh_ cs80_1_1. mp3

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help. yahoo.com/ l/us/yahoo/ groups/original/ members/web/ index.htmlfiles

Regards,

dark_november2000 <jhaible@debitel. net>

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Be a better friend, newshound, and
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Re: [yamahacs80] New file uploaded to yamahacs80

2008-01-12 by JH.

>JH, i love it! its great. im assuming its 2 tracks, right?

No, it's *one* track - and that's what I find so amazing about this
instrument, that you can change the sound so much just by playing along and
using the controllers. I didn't even manually change the I / II mix - it's
all in the
Initial Touch and Aftertouch. (and a manual change of Attack time in the I
section).

JH.

Re: [yamahacs80] New file uploaded to yamahacs80

2008-01-12 by rj krohn

ahh, ok-i guess depending on the routing

"JH." <jhaible@...> wrote:
>JH, i love it! its great. im assuming its 2 tracks, right?

No, it's *one* track - and that's what I find so amazing about this
instrument, that you can change the sound so much just by playing along and
using the controllers. I didn't even manually change the I / II mix - it's
all in the
Initial Touch and Aftertouch. (and a manual change of Attack time in the I
section).

JH.






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Re: [yamahacs80] New file uploaded to yamahacs80

2008-01-12 by JH.

>I noticed some of your keys double-trigger the notes like mine does.
>How can we fix that?

I've no idea.
It doesn't bother me much, though. As long as I don't get _wrong_ notes.
But I sometimes get them; I suspect when a bouncing key triggers the first
voice not long enough to fully charge the capacitor of the S&H?

JH.

Re: [yamahacs80] New file uploaded to yamahacs80

2008-01-12 by rj krohn

think my browser is acting funny here.....sorry for any mis-messages.

on mine, it will sometimes halt the note in mid-portamento, causing a wrong note. but its not a huge issue either, and it seems to only do it on certain patches at low velocities.


"JH." <jhaible@...> wrote: >I noticed some of your keys double-trigger the notes like mine does.
>How can we fix that?

I've no idea.
It doesn't bother me much, though. As long as I don't get _wrong_ notes.
But I sometimes get them; I suspect when a bouncing key triggers the first
voice not long enough to fully charge the capacitor of the S&H?

JH.






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Re: [yamahacs80] New file uploaded to yamahacs80

2008-01-12 by Laurie Curry

sounds like a SUS I regular hanging note....

Try this with a long release....

with pedal switch on ...

repeat a key and move the pitch ribbon..........

the pitch of the oscillator at the time of the key release will hang 
and no longer be affected by the ribbon.......

portamento is the same....

If your key lifts before a portamento reaches the new note
destination, it will hang at it's release pitch.......double triggers
will sometimes leave ill notes for that same reason.....

SustainII (MONO/POLY) will work good with portamento, but you will
have to hold keys down for them to sustain while playing other
notes...
-----Original message-----
From: rj krohn r_j_d_2.phila@...
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 07:02:39 -0700
To: yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [yamahacs80] New file uploaded to yamahacs80

think my browser is acting funny here.....sorry for any mis-messages.

on mine, it willsometimes halt the note in mid-portamento, causing a
wrong note. but its not a huge issue either, and it seems to only do
it on certain patches at low velocities.


"JH." wrote: >I noticed some of your keys double-trigger the notes
like mine does.
>How can we fix that?

I've no idea.
It doesn't bother me much, though. As long as I don't get _wrong_
notes.
But I sometimes get them; I suspect when a bouncing key triggers the
first
voice not long enough to fully charge the capacitor of the S&H?

JH.






---------------------------------
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Search.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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Re: [yamahacs80] New file uploaded to yamahacs80

2008-01-14 by The OldCrow

Errant triggers are caused by contact bounce, which is due to two
things. First is the design of the weighted action itself. While
well-balanced, each key ultimately strikes a small rubber pad,which is
in fact the force-sensing resistor array's cover delivering that
immaculate aftertouch. This results in a small bounce of the far end of
the key's 'rib' which is where the actual switch(es) are. At times this
bounce can cause a retriggering of envelopes. Second is the age of the
switches. Their design is going to last a hundred years, but contacts
do wear down, and they are already 30 years old. A little less contact
facing means a slightly wider contact gap, and a wider gap means the
above mentioned bounce has a greater chance of retriggering a note
envelope/rotation.

I tinkered with a corrective circuit, but am unsure if the correction
is 'better' (essentially a one-shot with a time of 50ms or so for each
trigger switch--16 in all).

Scott
/**/

JH. wrote:
>> I noticed some of your keys double-trigger the notes like mine does.
>> How can we fix that?
>>
>
> I've no idea.
> It doesn't bother me much, though. As long as I don't get _wrong_ notes.
> But I sometimes get them; I suspect when a bouncing key triggers the first voice not long enough to fully charge the capacitor of the S&H?
>
> JH.
>

Re: New file uploaded to yamahacs80

2008-01-14 by erikfromhere

Can't the problem be reduced by slightly bending the upper right
(note ?) contactleaf a bit down, so the contact will close just a
little bit earlier and will not open again while the key is bouncing ?
I guess the right switch starts the trigger, the left switch
determines initial velocity isn't it ?
Maybe there's a weak spot on the contact-metal and cleaning it will
reduce double-triggering too?


--- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, The OldCrow <oldcrow@...> wrote:
>
> Errant triggers are caused by contact bounce, which is due to two
> things. First is the design of the weighted action itself. While
> well-balanced, each key ultimately strikes a small rubber pad,which
is
> in fact the force-sensing resistor array's cover delivering that
> immaculate aftertouch. This results in a small bounce of the far
end of
> the key's 'rib' which is where the actual switch(es) are. At times
this
> bounce can cause a retriggering of envelopes. Second is the age of
the
> switches. Their design is going to last a hundred years, but
contacts
> do wear down, and they are already 30 years old. A little less
contact
> facing means a slightly wider contact gap, and a wider gap means
the
> above mentioned bounce has a greater chance of retriggering a note
> envelope/rotation.
>
> I tinkered with a corrective circuit, but am unsure if the
correction
> is 'better' (essentially a one-shot with a time of 50ms or so for
each
> trigger switch--16 in all).
>
> Scott
> /**/
>
> JH. wrote:
> >> I noticed some of your keys double-trigger the notes like mine
does.
> >> How can we fix that?
> >>
> >
> > I've no idea.
> > It doesn't bother me much, though. As long as I don't get _wrong_
notes.
> > But I sometimes get them; I suspect when a bouncing key triggers
the first voice not long enough to fully charge the capacitor of the
S&H?
> >
> > JH.
> >
>

Re: [yamahacs80] New file uploaded to yamahacs80

2008-01-18 by JH.

Using stereo outputs, which is responsible for most of the panning.
However, there's some effects, too:
Stereo Echo from TC Electronics D-Two
Mono Echo from Dynacord DRS-78
Reverb from Quantec QRS
Compression from a stereo clone of the UREI 1178
(But that's the stuff I have mostly in the signal path when playing.)

I even like the dark sound of the Effect section even *without* Chorus or
Tremolo engaged, on a combination of the two Guitar presets; has that
special guitar amplifier feeling.

(In my example Chorus is on, of course.)

JH.

>i dig it, sounds really nice. i usually dont like the onboard chorus, but
>this sounds good. are you using the stereo outputs, or are the pans done
> >in recording?

yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com wrote:
Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the yamahacs80
group.

File : /jh_cs80_1_2a.mp3
Uploaded by : dark_november2000 <jhaible@...>
Description : I kind of like the dark sound of that chorus.

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/yamahacs80/files/jh_cs80_1_2a.mp3

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:

Multi Trigger correction (was: Re: New file uploaded to yamahacs80)

2008-03-05 by dark_november2000

> above mentioned bounce has a greater chance of retriggering a note
> envelope/rotation.
>
> I tinkered with a corrective circuit, but am unsure if the
correction
> is 'better' (essentially a one-shot with a time of 50ms or so for
each
> trigger switch--16 in all).


Hi Scott,

this sounds interesting. Maybe we could make the one-shot time
voltage controlled, and have a single trimpot to adjust them to a
value that will _just_ avoid the multiple triggering ...

Questions:

Why 16? (I was either expecting 61, or 8 ...)

Why are you unsure if it's better - what is the down side?

JH.

Double trigger cure ? Was: Re: New file uploaded to yamahacs80)

2008-05-20 by dark_november2000

Hi Scott and Group,

another thought about the double trigger issue.

If you prolong the trigger with a one-shot (what you described), this
should be a cure for _wrong_ notes to cause dissonance: you ascertain
that the trigger is long enough for the CV to reach its final (right)
value. But you'd still have two voices sounding instead of one
(especially with a long release time or held damper pedal).

An alternative could be to mask the first part of the trigger, i.e
only to allow it to reach the keyboard scanner electronics if it's at
least of some minimal length. (As long as it takes for the CV to be
completely sampled.)
But this also means that *every* trigger would be delayed by that
amount of time, which, depending on how much time we actually need,
may affect the resposiveness of your playing. (Delays are always bad
for a good timing.)

So here is another idea:

For a trigger that's shorter than a certain time (let's say 50ms),
the release time of the respective voice is decreased and/or the
sustain pedal function is disabled for this voice. As everything is
under voltage control inside a CS-80, this should be easy from an
electronic point of view. (Don't know about the mechanical aspect,
number of extra wires etc.)

Example:

You have a voice with a release time of 2 seconds.

Now a bouncing key passes a trigger of 5ms to voice #1,
and a trigger of 200ms (as long as you hold the key) to voice #2.

Asuming voice #1 cannot build up its correct pitch CV in 5ms, you'd
have a wrong note sustaining for 2 seconds without a correction.

Applying my idea (if it works, that is), both voice #1 and voice #2
would have their Release time temorarily reduced to "zero" (a couple
of milliseconds) - but only for a tim espan of, say, 50ms after the
trigger.
To voice #2 this would make no difference: as long as the key is
held, the zeroed release parameter doesn't matter (we're not in th
erelease phase yet!).
To voice #1 (the wrong one), it makes _all_ the difference: as soon
as the glitch (double trigger event) is over, the voice goes off
with "zero" release time (just a ghost note, where pitch perception
isn't really possible anyway).

What do you think?
Could this work?

Best Regards,

JH.




> I tinkered with a corrective circuit, but am unsure if the
correction
> is 'better' (essentially a one-shot with a time of 50ms or so for
each
> trigger switch--16 in all).
>
> Scott

Double trigger cure ? Was: Re: New file uploaded to yamahacs80)

2008-05-21 by erikfromhere

I can't participate in this interesting techtalk, but I think
Vangelis also experienced some double-triggering. At least, I think I
hear a double-triggered note on the track "I hear you now", Jon and
Vangelis. Have a listen at about 4:23 (time can differ a bit since I
listen to a mp3. Wow, even in mp3-quality you can hear it ;-) )

--- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, "dark_november2000" <jhaible@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi Scott and Group,
>
> another thought about the double trigger issue.
>
> If you prolong the trigger with a one-shot (what you described),
this
> should be a cure for _wrong_ notes to cause dissonance: you
ascertain
> that the trigger is long enough for the CV to reach its final
(right)
> value. But you'd still have two voices sounding instead of one
> (especially with a long release time or held damper pedal).
>
> An alternative could be to mask the first part of the trigger, i.e
> only to allow it to reach the keyboard scanner electronics if it's
at
> least of some minimal length. (As long as it takes for the CV to be
> completely sampled.)
> But this also means that *every* trigger would be delayed by that
> amount of time, which, depending on how much time we actually need,
> may affect the resposiveness of your playing. (Delays are always
bad
> for a good timing.)
>
> So here is another idea:
>
> For a trigger that's shorter than a certain time (let's say 50ms),
> the release time of the respective voice is decreased and/or the
> sustain pedal function is disabled for this voice. As everything is
> under voltage control inside a CS-80, this should be easy from an
> electronic point of view. (Don't know about the mechanical aspect,
> number of extra wires etc.)
>
> Example:
>
> You have a voice with a release time of 2 seconds.
>
> Now a bouncing key passes a trigger of 5ms to voice #1,
> and a trigger of 200ms (as long as you hold the key) to voice #2.
>
> Asuming voice #1 cannot build up its correct pitch CV in 5ms, you'd
> have a wrong note sustaining for 2 seconds without a correction.
>
> Applying my idea (if it works, that is), both voice #1 and voice #2
> would have their Release time temorarily reduced to "zero" (a
couple
> of milliseconds) - but only for a tim espan of, say, 50ms after the
> trigger.
> To voice #2 this would make no difference: as long as the key is
> held, the zeroed release parameter doesn't matter (we're not in th
> erelease phase yet!).
> To voice #1 (the wrong one), it makes _all_ the difference: as soon
> as the glitch (double trigger event) is over, the voice goes off
> with "zero" release time (just a ghost note, where pitch perception
> isn't really possible anyway).
>
> What do you think?
> Could this work?
>
> Best Regards,
>
> JH.
>
>
>
>
> > I tinkered with a corrective circuit, but am unsure if the
> correction
> > is 'better' (essentially a one-shot with a time of 50ms or so for
> each
> > trigger switch--16 in all).
> >
> > Scott
>

Re: [yamahacs80] Double trigger cure ? Was: Re: New file uploaded to yamahacs80)

2008-05-22 by Max Fazio

Some double triggers can be heard also on ORGAN presets played during a solo on "Curious Electric", on the same Jon and Vangelis' "Short Stories" album (1979) .
M
----- Original Message -----
From: erikfromhere
To: yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 10:05 PM
Subject: [yamahacs80] Double trigger cure ? Was: Re: New file uploaded to yamahacs80)


I can't participate in this interesting techtalk, but I think
Vangelis also experienced some double-triggering. At least, I think I
hear a double-triggered note on the track "I hear you now", Jon and
Vangelis. Have a listen at about 4:23 (time can differ a bit since I
listen to a mp3. Wow, even in mp3-quality you can hear it ;-) )

--- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, "dark_november2000" <jhaible@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi Scott and Group,
>
> another thought about the double trigger issue.
>
> If you prolong the trigger with a one-shot (what you described),
this
> should be a cure for _wrong_ notes to cause dissonance: you
ascertain
> that the trigger is long enough for the CV to reach its final
(right)
> value. But you'd still have two voices sounding instead of one
> (especially with a long release time or held damper pedal).
>
> An alternative could be to mask the first part of the trigger, i.e
> only to allow it to reach the keyboard scanner electronics if it's
at
> least of some minimal length. (As long as it takes for the CV to be
> completely sampled.)
> But this also means that *every* trigger would be delayed by that
> amount of time, which, depending on how much time we actually need,
> may affect the resposiveness of your playing. (Delays are always
bad
> for a good timing.)
>
> So here is another idea:
>
> For a trigger that's shorter than a certain time (let's say 50ms),
> the release time of the respective voice is decreased and/or the
> sustain pedal function is disabled for this voice. As everything is
> under voltage control inside a CS-80, this should be easy from an
> electronic point of view. (Don't know about the mechanical aspect,
> number of extra wires etc.)
>
> Example:
>
> You have a voice with a release time of 2 seconds.
>
> Now a bouncing key passes a trigger of 5ms to voice #1,
> and a trigger of 200ms (as long as you hold the key) to voice #2.
>
> Asuming voice #1 cannot build up its correct pitch CV in 5ms, you'd
> have a wrong note sustaining for 2 seconds without a correction.
>
> Applying my idea (if it works, that is), both voice #1 and voice #2
> would have their Release time temorarily reduced to "zero" (a
couple
> of milliseconds) - but only for a tim espan of, say, 50ms after the
> trigger.
> To voice #2 this would make no difference: as long as the key is
> held, the zeroed release parameter doesn't matter (we're not in th
> erelease phase yet!).
> To voice #1 (the wrong one), it makes _all_ the difference: as soon
> as the glitch (double trigger event) is over, the voice goes off
> with "zero" release time (just a ghost note, where pitch perception
> isn't really possible anyway).
>
> What do you think?
> Could this work?
>
> Best Regards,
>
> JH.
>
>
>
>
> > I tinkered with a corrective circuit, but am unsure if the
> correction
> > is 'better' (essentially a one-shot with a time of 50ms or so for
> each
> > trigger switch--16 in all).
> >
> > Scott
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Double trigger cure ?

2008-05-23 by erikfromhere

In my experience, double triggering occurs mostly when releasing a key.
I think releasing a key takes a bit more time than pressing a key
during normal playing. At a certain point, there's a moment the right
spring-leave stops touching it's upper contact spring and a fraction of
a key-movement later it touches it again. This can be caused by a dirty
contact-surface, or the contact surfaces have blind spots, one or both
of the right spring-contacts are a bit tordated etc.

Till now, I am able to reduce double triggering by cleaning the contact-
area and some very slight bending/tordating of the 2 right contact-
springs and checking their behavour while very slowely releasing the
key.

In my opinion, if not all keys cause double-triggering then it's not
needed to modify the electronic circuity, just cure the keys that are
causing problems.

Re: [yamahacs80] Double trigger cure ?

2008-05-23 by rj krohn

i have noticed that i only seem to get double triggers on black keys. i have cleaned the contacts on all the keys as well as i can. for me, it SEEMS to be related to the fact that the weight disbursement is different on the black keys, as they have less mass on the key side than white keys.

do you have a particular method of cleaning that worked wonders on this?



erikfromhere <moogsynthex@...> wrote: In my experience, double triggering occurs mostly when releasing a key.
I think releasing a key takes a bit more time than pressing a key
during normal playing. At a certain point, there's a moment the right
spring-leave stops touching it's upper contact spring and a fraction of
a key-movement later it touches it again. This can be caused by a dirty
contact-surface, or the contact surfaces have blind spots, one or both
of the right spring-contacts are a bit tordated etc.

Till now, I am able to reduce double triggering by cleaning the contact-
area and some very slight bending/tordating of the 2 right contact-
springs and checking their behavour while very slowely releasing the
key.

In my opinion, if not all keys cause double-triggering then it's not
needed to modify the electronic circuity, just cure the keys that are
causing problems.







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

New file uploaded to yamahacs80

2017-03-05 by yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com

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New file uploaded to yamahacs80

2017-03-05 by yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com

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New file uploaded to yamahacs80

2018-02-26 by yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com

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