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Leaking batteries and cigarette smoke.

Leaking batteries and cigarette smoke.

2006-02-27 by mark_r_abcd

Hi all.

I've taken on the repair of a Korg Poly 800 Mk1, but I think it might
be a bit of a challenge!

First and most obvious problem is that a set of batteries has leaked
into it at some time in the past. There's corrosion on the PCB, some
of the IC pins and some of the keyboard metalwork. Does anyone have
any suggestions for how to go about cleaning it up, or will the damage
be too far gone?

Supposing I get it to work, the next problem is that a previous owner
has been a smoker - the keys are stained and it stinks of smoke. Again,
any recommendations for cleaning it up?
 
Cheers

Mark

RE: [vintagesynthrepair] Leaking batteries and cigarette smoke.

2006-02-27 by Brian Davies

Hi Mark

 

I can help with the battery problem.  Clean up with a solution of
bicarbonate of soda.  Mix a couple of teaspoons full in a tumbler of warm
water.  Brush this around the affected area with on old toothbrush - or a
new one if you don't have an old one!  Then wash off with warm water.  Place
the PCB and any item that is now wet on a radiator or on top of a boiler
over night.  This treatment will neutralize the acid of the batteries.

 

With regard to the nicotine I guess warm soapy water would be OK, similar to
above.

 

73

Brian G3OYU

 <http://www.g3oyu.co.uk> www.g3oyu.co.uk

 <http://www.surreyraynet.net> www.surreyraynet.net

 

  _____  
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mark_r_abcd
Sent: Monday, 27 February 2006 19:31
To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Leaking batteries and cigarette smoke.

 

Hi all.

I've taken on the repair of a Korg Poly 800 Mk1, but I think it might
be a bit of a challenge!

First and most obvious problem is that a set of batteries has leaked
into it at some time in the past. There's corrosion on the PCB, some
of the IC pins and some of the keyboard metalwork. Does anyone have
any suggestions for how to go about cleaning it up, or will the damage
be too far gone?

Supposing I get it to work, the next problem is that a previous owner
has been a smoker - the keys are stained and it stinks of smoke. Again,
any recommendations for cleaning it up?

Cheers

Mark






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ronic+repair+part&c=6&s=130&.sig=RIoi8jVoiTgfDfA4A8-A3w>  piano 

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ectronic+repair+part&c=6&s=130&.sig=MCycqb7Gw74wrjtJgU5SYg>  repair 

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+repair&w3=Sampler&w4=Moog+synthesizer&w5=Electro+mechanical&w6=Electronic+r
epair+part&c=6&s=130&.sig=2JrM-vtLHKZypn15ozaYdA>  


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lectronic+repair&w3=Sampler&w4=Moog+synthesizer&w5=Electro+mechanical&w6=Ele
ctronic+repair+part&c=6&s=130&.sig=gqthRWce1fry8L1dFU5pvw>  synthesizer 

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lectronic+repair+part&c=6&s=130&.sig=zbJ83S-6fu21DsGnEc4KzA>  mechanical 

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w6=Electronic+repair+part&c=6&s=130&.sig=HUNagfDE1mUMsP08LfcXdQ>  repair
part 

 

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Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Leaking batteries and cigarette smoke.

2006-02-27 by Roy J. Tellason

On Monday 27 February 2006 02:51 pm, Brian Davies wrote:
> I can help with the battery problem.  Clean up with a solution of
> bicarbonate of soda.  Mix a couple of teaspoons full in a tumbler of warm
> water.  Brush this around the affected area with on old toothbrush - or a
> new one if you don't have an old one!  Then wash off with warm water. 
> Place the PCB and any item that is now wet on a radiator or on top of a
> boiler over night.  This treatment will neutralize the acid of the
> batteries.

Have you actually done this?

The problem with this approach is that the only batteries that contain "acid" 
are lead-acid,  as in car batteries,  gels,  etc. and _not_ the ones that 
would typically have been used in this instrument,  which are more likely to 
contain _alkaline_ of some sort.

-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin

RE: [vintagesynthrepair] Leaking batteries and cigarette smoke.

2006-02-27 by Brian Davies

Yes many times over the past 50 years as a service engineer, including
computer multilayer boards.  Proof that there is some acid content is the
fact that the liquid bubbles as it neutralizes.

 

73

Brian G3OYU

 <http://www.g3oyu.co.uk> www.g3oyu.co.uk

 <http://www.surreyraynet.net> www.surreyraynet.net

 

  _____  
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Roy J. Tellason
Sent: Monday, 27 February 2006 20:21
To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Leaking batteries and cigarette smoke.

 

On Monday 27 February 2006 02:51 pm, Brian Davies wrote:
> I can help with the battery problem.  Clean up with a solution of
> bicarbonate of soda.  Mix a couple of teaspoons full in a tumbler of warm
> water.  Brush this around the affected area with on old toothbrush - or a
> new one if you don't have an old one!  Then wash off with warm water. 
> Place the PCB and any item that is now wet on a radiator or on top of a
> boiler over night.  This treatment will neutralize the acid of the
> batteries.

Have you actually done this?

The problem with this approach is that the only batteries that contain
"acid" 
are lead-acid,  as in car batteries,  gels,  etc. and _not_ the ones that 
would typically have been used in this instrument,  which are more likely to

contain _alkaline_ of some sort.

-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies.
--James 
M Dakin




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ctronic+repair&w3=Sampler&w4=Moog+synthesizer&w5=Electro+mechanical&w6=Elect
ronic+repair+part&c=6&s=130&.sig=RIoi8jVoiTgfDfA4A8-A3w>  piano 

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Electronic+repair&w3=Sampler&w4=Moog+synthesizer&w5=Electro+mechanical&w6=El
ectronic+repair+part&c=6&s=130&.sig=MCycqb7Gw74wrjtJgU5SYg>  repair 

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+repair&w3=Sampler&w4=Moog+synthesizer&w5=Electro+mechanical&w6=Electronic+r
epair+part&c=6&s=130&.sig=2JrM-vtLHKZypn15ozaYdA>  


Moog
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Moog+synthesizer&w1=Electric+piano&w2=E
lectronic+repair&w3=Sampler&w4=Moog+synthesizer&w5=Electro+mechanical&w6=Ele
ctronic+repair+part&c=6&s=130&.sig=gqthRWce1fry8L1dFU5pvw>  synthesizer 

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=Electronic+repair&w3=Sampler&w4=Moog+synthesizer&w5=Electro+mechanical&w6=E
lectronic+repair+part&c=6&s=130&.sig=zbJ83S-6fu21DsGnEc4KzA>  mechanical 

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w6=Electronic+repair+part&c=6&s=130&.sig=HUNagfDE1mUMsP08LfcXdQ>  repair
part 

 

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Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Leaking batteries and cigarette smoke.

2006-02-27 by Dale Kay (Inquisitor Betrayer)

not really, only that one of the solutions is more or less alkaline than the other...
not necessary acid... and or other reactions taking place...
use caution...
depending on how well you can handle the board, maybe a little distilled water is called for with a light scrub...
after all, this isn't a car battery here in a old truck... it's a delicate instrument that someone wants to restore to use again...
dale
dale@...
Lancaster CA
New synth programming group for all synths.
Synth_Programming-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Recent events require your assistance to your charities. Do give when able.
"without music, life would be a mistake"
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 12:35 PM
Subject: RE: [vintagesynthrepair] Leaking batteries and cigarette smoke.

Yes many times over the past 50 years as a service engineer, including computer multilayer boards. Proof that there is some acid content is the fact that the liquid bubbles as it neutralizes.

RE: [vintagesynthrepair] Leaking batteries and cigarette smoke.

2006-02-27 by Brian Davies

Hi Dale

 

Given the suggested mixture the bi-carb solution is only very weakly
alkaline.  I think you need to discover exactly what is in the battery
before deciding arbitrarily that it isn't acid, albeit only very weakly so.

 

Further my considerable experience suggests that PCBs today and in the
foreseeable past, are not the delicate instruments you may think.  Over the
years I have had to restore to working order many hundreds of equipment, not
only keyboard electronics but other much more so called delicate
instruments, what with the problems of static on CMOS chips and surface
mount devices.  I have had to clean up PCBs that have been covered with a
thick layer of dirt and dust, others that have soft drinks like coke and
lemonade dropped over them, one even that had whiskey poured through the
ventilation holes and this was a high spec oscilloscope.  All survived the
water treatment and drying out under gentle heat, I don't recall even one
failure through dunking in water.

 

If this specific case of battery leakage is either alkaline or acid then
distilled water is not going to neutralize it, it may wash off what you can
see, but what it won't do is get rid of any lodged under components.  No I
would go for bi-carb any time.

 

73

Brian G3OYU

 <http://www.g3oyu.co.uk> www.g3oyu.co.uk

 <http://www.surreyraynet.net> www.surreyraynet.net

 

  _____  
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dale Kay
(Inquisitor Betrayer)
Sent: Monday, 27 February 2006 20:53
To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Leaking batteries and cigarette smoke.

 

not really, only that one of the solutions is more or less alkaline than the
other...

not necessary acid... and or other reactions taking place...

 

use caution... 

 

depending on how well you can handle the board, maybe a little distilled
water is called for with a light scrub...

 

after all, this isn't a car battery here in a old truck... it's a delicate
instrument that someone wants to restore to use again...

 

dale
dale@...
Lancaster CA

 

band web pages
Inquisitor Betrayer
http://www.inquisitorbetrayer.com
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/7/inquisitorbetrayermusic.htm
Angel's Wings 
http://www.soundclick.com/angelswings

 

New synth programming group for all synths.
Synth_Programming-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

 

Recent events require your assistance to your charities. Do give when able.
"without music, life would be a mistake"

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Brian <mailto:briang3oyu@...>  Davies 

To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com 

Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 12:35 PM

Subject: RE: [vintagesynthrepair] Leaking batteries and cigarette smoke.

 

Yes many times over the past 50 years as a service engineer, including
computer multilayer boards.  Proof that there is some acid content is the
fact that the liquid bubbles as it neutralizes.

 

73

Brian G3OYU

 <http://www.g3oyu.co.uk> www.g3oyu.co.uk

 <http://www.surreyraynet.net> www.surreyraynet.net

 

 

SPONSORED LINKS 


Electric
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Electric+piano&w1=Electric+piano&w2=Ele
ctronic+repair&w3=Sampler&w4=Moog+synthesizer&w5=Electro+mechanical&w6=Elect
ronic+repair+part&c=6&s=130&.sig=RIoi8jVoiTgfDfA4A8-A3w>  piano 

Electronic
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Electronic+repair&w1=Electric+piano&w2=
Electronic+repair&w3=Sampler&w4=Moog+synthesizer&w5=Electro+mechanical&w6=El
ectronic+repair+part&c=6&s=130&.sig=MCycqb7Gw74wrjtJgU5SYg>  repair 

Sampler
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sampler&w1=Electric+piano&w2=Electronic
+repair&w3=Sampler&w4=Moog+synthesizer&w5=Electro+mechanical&w6=Electronic+r
epair+part&c=6&s=130&.sig=2JrM-vtLHKZypn15ozaYdA>  


Moog
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Moog+synthesizer&w1=Electric+piano&w2=E
lectronic+repair&w3=Sampler&w4=Moog+synthesizer&w5=Electro+mechanical&w6=Ele
ctronic+repair+part&c=6&s=130&.sig=gqthRWce1fry8L1dFU5pvw>  synthesizer 

Electro
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Electro+mechanical&w1=Electric+piano&w2
=Electronic+repair&w3=Sampler&w4=Moog+synthesizer&w5=Electro+mechanical&w6=E
lectronic+repair+part&c=6&s=130&.sig=zbJ83S-6fu21DsGnEc4KzA>  mechanical 

Electronic
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Electronic+repair+part&w1=Electric+pian
o&w2=Electronic+repair&w3=Sampler&w4=Moog+synthesizer&w5=Electro+mechanical&
w6=Electronic+repair+part&c=6&s=130&.sig=HUNagfDE1mUMsP08LfcXdQ>  repair
part 

 

  _____  

YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS 

 

*	 Visit your group "vintagesynthrepair
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintagesynthrepair> " on the web.
  
*	 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 vintagesynthrepair-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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  _____

Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Leaking batteries and cigarette smoke.

2006-02-27 by Antoine DeschĂȘnes

Dust? A paintbrush works with computers.
The acid? Rubbing alcohol. Dunno if it was a Lithium battery that leaked 
in your case tho.
Rust? Dremel tool.
Cigarette? I had a screen that was brown-looking due to this, even 
rubbing alcohol wouldn't remove it. I found out that the Lestoil in an 
"Hertel" spray bottle worked really well. The only problem is that it 
works very well, but only for about one or two wipes.

Brian Davies a \ufffdcrit :
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Hi Dale
>
> Given the suggested mixture the bi-carb solution is only very weakly 
> alkaline. I think you need to discover exactly what is in the battery 
> before deciding arbitrarily that it isn\ufffdt acid, albeit only very 
> weakly so.
>
> Further my considerable experience suggests that PCBs today and in the 
> foreseeable past, are not the delicate instruments you may think. Over 
> the years I have had to restore to working order many hundreds of 
> equipment, not only keyboard electronics but other much more so called 
> delicate instruments, what with the problems of static on CMOS chips 
> and surface mount devices. I have had to clean up PCBs that have been 
> covered with a thick layer of dirt and dust, others that have soft 
> drinks like coke and lemonade dropped over them, one even that had 
> whiskey poured through the ventilation holes and this was a high spec 
> oscilloscope. All survived the water treatment and drying out under 
> gentle heat, I don\ufffdt recall even one failure through dunking in water.
>
> If this specific case of battery leakage is either alkaline or acid 
> then distilled water is not going to neutralize it, it may wash off 
> what you can see, but what it won\ufffdt do is get rid of any lodged under 
> components. No I would go for bi-carb any time.
>
> **73**
>
> **Brian G3OYU**
>
> **www.g3oyu.co.uk** <http://www.g3oyu.co.uk>
>
> **www.surreyraynet.net** <http://www.surreyraynet.net>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com 
> [mailto:vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Dale Kay 
> (Inquisitor Betrayer)
> *Sent:* Monday, 27 February 2006 20:53
> *To:* vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Leaking batteries and cigarette smoke.
>
> not really, only that one of the solutions is more or less alkaline 
> than the other...
>
> not necessary acid... and or other reactions taking place...
>
> use caution...
>
> depending on how well you can handle the board, maybe a little 
> distilled water is called for with a light scrub...
>
> after all, this isn't a car battery here in a old truck... it's a 
> delicate instrument that someone wants to restore to use again...
>
> dale
> dale@... <mailto:dale@...>
> Lancaster CA
>
> band web pages
> Inquisitor Betrayer
> http://www.inquisitorbetrayer.com
> http://www.soundclick.com/bands/7/inquisitorbetrayermusic.htm
> Angel's Wings
> http://www.soundclick.com/angelswings
>
> New synth programming group for all synths.
> Synth_Programming-subscribe@yahoogroups.com 
> <mailto:Synth_Programming-subscribe@yahoogroups.com>
>
> Recent events require your assistance to your charities. Do give when 
> able.
> "without music, life would be a mistake"
>
>     ----- Original Message -----
>
>     *From:* Brian Davies <mailto:briang3oyu@...>
>
>     *To:* vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
>     <mailto:vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com>
>
>     *Sent:* Monday, February 27, 2006 12:35 PM
>
>     *Subject:* RE: [vintagesynthrepair] Leaking batteries and
>     cigarette smoke.
>
>     Yes many times over the past 50 years as a service engineer,
>     including computer multilayer boards. Proof that there is some
>     acid content is the fact that the liquid bubbles as it neutralizes.
>
>     **73**
>
>     **Brian G3OYU**
>
>     **www.g3oyu.co.uk** <http://www.g3oyu.co.uk>
>
>     **www.surreyraynet.net** <http://www.surreyraynet.net>
>
>

Re: Leaking batteries and cigarette smoke.

2006-03-01 by mark_r_abcd

--- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Davies" 
<briang3oyu@...> wrote:
>
> Given the suggested mixture the bi-carb solution is only very weakly
> alkaline.  I think you need to discover exactly what is in the battery
> before deciding arbitrarily that it isn't acid, albeit only very 
weakly so.
> 

I've done a bit of surfing for more info on this. BTW, it was the
batteries that power the synth (D-cells, I think), not the internal
lithium cells that have leaked.

It seems that the most likely cells to leak are Zinc-Carbon, since
the Zinc cathode forms part of the casing. The gunk that leaks out
is mostly Ammonium Chloride, which forms a weakly acid solution in
water. Bicarb sounds like a good idea, since it's weakly alkaline
in water, so I think I'll give that a go.

I'll let you know how I get on, but I'm currently finishing off
another project (a JHS Harmonizer, which I'm very proud of) so
it might be some time before I get around to it.

Cheers

mark-r

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