Discussion about the Korg PolySix synthesizer

At the bottom is the message I wrote to the sound on sound forum, 
somebody advised I post it here as well.Apparently it appears as if 
there is a problem with the P6, so I've had another play around with 
it to see if I can identify some more symptoms.
I'm sorr if it all seems a bit here and there, bu as I write it, 
I've been trying things out.

Going through the patch banks, all but one sound (so thats 1 of 23) 
sounds fine in poly mode when it's switched on, if I play about with 
the delay in the MG section, or the decay in the EG section I can 
put it into "6th note differnt mode"
This is where if I play 6 notes, (either the same or different, 
varying lengths doesnt matter) the sixth note always sounds 
different to the 5 before it, usually the 6th note will be quiet, or 
vastly different in resonance or something.
Of the other 23 patches, most of them suffer this 6th different note 
in one of two types, the type I've just explained where the patch is 
audible for 5 notes then quiet or differnt on the 6th, or, there are 
some patches that are virtually quiet, and then sound something on 
the sixth note. (and they have this from the preset, playing about 
with the delay or decay doesnt alter the 6th note)
The other type of sixth note note it's doing is when I switch to any 
number of patches (there's about 12 that do this) It plays a note, 
but carries on playing the note even tho I let go of the key, (like 
a chord hold)... press a different key, for 5 times and it still 
plays the first one and none of the keys just pressed, press a key 
the 6th time and it starts to play the 6th note on hold until 
another cycle of 6 comes round at which point it'll play whatever 
6th note was then hit.Again this is in the patch that way.
I'm thinking, because all patches sound this way in one way or 
another, it can't be that they were programmed like this.

One suggestion, was the battery may had leaked, but this was one of 
the first things I checked whenI bought it, and the battery looks 
like a new one (I can take a picture of the circut board around the 
battrey for anyone that thinks this may be the problem, it looks ok 
to me, but an expericed pair of eyes may tell me otherwise.)

Finally, and possibly not to do with this problem, can someone 
explain the function of this EG switch - again I just tried th piano 
patch from the patch sheet, and it didnt sound anything like a piano 
(unless piano sound a bit spacey bass), and I think the patch sheet 
is telling me to have the eg switch on. This results in the note 
playing on hold (and actually stays on hold until a 6th not is 
pplaye when the 6th note the plays on hold).

When in unision mode, I don't suffer with this 6th note difference. 
(well I havent come across it yet)

Another thing I've just stumbled on (patch 8 bank A) quiet for 5 
notes, noise for 6th, so doesnt play much, (patch 7 bank A) first 
note pressed is one of these held notes, throw the EG switch on, 
then off again, and patch 7 plays notes normally, switch back to 
patch 8, and it's now playing normally too, however, play around 
with the knobs and i can put it into 6th note different, tried this 
on some other patches, and it does the same thing.

If I discover anything, I'll post that up too... Anywats a picture 
of the battery are, can do that (can I attach pic files here)

Rob






SOS forum posting.

Had my polysix for about 4 months now, got my hands on the 
programming side of it straight away.However, I was a bit put off, 
as a lot of the time when it's in poly mode, I get odd "results". 
Having bought it second hand, it had programs already on it, when 
you hit a note, you get a sound, hit it consecutivley a number of 
times, and every sixth note sounds different (most of the time, 
silent)... or the opposite, 5 notes of silence, and the an audible 
sound on the sixth. I'm sure this is just the way it's programmed, 
but I can't seem to make many sounds where it doesnt do this. (I did 
get 1 sound on both poly and unision, where it doesnt have this 
effect, but it's a pretty lame sound and I can't remember what I did 
to get rid of this error on this particular patch. (<- NOW INCORRECT)
Having said all that, if anyone has seen the patch sheets for the 
original sounds (picked them up from here OldSchool Sound , I 
downloaded copies of them today, and as an example, I tried 
programming the piano sound to see how it sounded, and all I get is 
some really slow oscillating bass type sound.

I have a copy of the manual for this, and though it gives you an 
idea of what each section is for, it's been knob all help in trying 
to get me any decent "synth" sounds on it.

Any pointers, anything I can try, any way to initialise the thing...


Thanks if any one can help me sort this.. 

Rob

My first impression would be that the machine has one faulty voice -- it 
needs either trimming or repair.

However, first thing you want to try is dumping the current memory (save it 
to tape or computer if you like some of the patches) and re-loading the 
factory data (available a number of places on the web).

If the problem persists, it's not a data problem;  it's a voice problem, 
and we'll have to narrow it down from there.

~GMM
ANALOG SYNTHESIZER SERVICE & MODIFICATION

At 03:05 PM 2/2/04 +0000, you wrote:
>At the bottom is the message I wrote to the sound on sound forum,
>somebody advised I post it here as well.Apparently it appears as if
>there is a problem with the P6, so I've had another play around with
>it to see if I can identify some more symptoms.
>I'm sorr if it all seems a bit here and there, bu as I write it,
>I've been trying things out.
>
>Going through the patch banks, all but one sound (so thats 1 of 23)
>sounds fine in poly mode when it's switched on, if I play about with
>the delay in the MG section, or the decay in the EG section I can
>put it into "6th note differnt mode"
>This is where if I play 6 notes, (either the same or different,
>varying lengths doesnt matter) the sixth note always sounds
>different to the 5 before it, usually the 6th note will be quiet, or
>vastly different in resonance or something.
>Of the other 23 patches, most of them suffer this 6th different note
>in one of two types, the type I've just explained where the patch is
>audible for 5 notes then quiet or differnt on the 6th, or, there are
>some patches that are virtually quiet, and then sound something on
>the sixth note. (and they have this from the preset, playing about
>with the delay or decay doesnt alter the 6th note)
>The other type of sixth note note it's doing is when I switch to any
>number of patches (there's about 12 that do this) It plays a note,
>but carries on playing the note even tho I let go of the key, (like
>a chord hold)... press a different key, for 5 times and it still
>plays the first one and none of the keys just pressed, press a key
>the 6th time and it starts to play the 6th note on hold until
>another cycle of 6 comes round at which point it'll play whatever
>6th note was then hit.Again this is in the patch that way.
>I'm thinking, because all patches sound this way in one way or
>another, it can't be that they were programmed like this.
>
>One suggestion, was the battery may had leaked, but this was one of
>the first things I checked whenI bought it, and the battery looks
>like a new one (I can take a picture of the circut board around the
>battrey for anyone that thinks this may be the problem, it looks ok
>to me, but an expericed pair of eyes may tell me otherwise.)
>
>Finally, and possibly not to do with this problem, can someone
>explain the function of this EG switch - again I just tried th piano
>patch from the patch sheet, and it didnt sound anything like a piano
>(unless piano sound a bit spacey bass), and I think the patch sheet
>is telling me to have the eg switch on. This results in the note
>playing on hold (and actually stays on hold until a 6th not is
>pplaye when the 6th note the plays on hold).
>
>When in unision mode, I don't suffer with this 6th note difference.
>(well I havent come across it yet)
>
>Another thing I've just stumbled on (patch 8 bank A) quiet for 5
>notes, noise for 6th, so doesnt play much, (patch 7 bank A) first
>note pressed is one of these held notes, throw the EG switch on,
>then off again, and patch 7 plays notes normally, switch back to
>patch 8, and it's now playing normally too, however, play around
>with the knobs and i can put it into 6th note different, tried this
>on some other patches, and it does the same thing.
>
>If I discover anything, I'll post that up too... Anywats a picture
>of the battery are, can do that (can I attach pic files here)
>
>Rob
>
>
>
>
>
>
>SOS forum posting.
>
>Had my polysix for about 4 months now, got my hands on the
>programming side of it straight away.However, I was a bit put off,
>as a lot of the time when it's in poly mode, I get odd "results".
>Having bought it second hand, it had programs already on it, when
>you hit a note, you get a sound, hit it consecutivley a number of
>times, and every sixth note sounds different (most of the time,
>silent)... or the opposite, 5 notes of silence, and the an audible
>sound on the sixth. I'm sure this is just the way it's programmed,
>but I can't seem to make many sounds where it doesnt do this. (I did
>get 1 sound on both poly and unision, where it doesnt have this
>effect, but it's a pretty lame sound and I can't remember what I did
>to get rid of this error on this particular patch. (<- NOW INCORRECT)
>Having said all that, if anyone has seen the patch sheets for the
>original sounds (picked them up from here OldSchool Sound , I
>downloaded copies of them today, and as an example, I tried
>programming the piano sound to see how it sounded, and all I get is
>some really slow oscillating bass type sound.
>
>I have a copy of the manual for this, and though it gives you an
>idea of what each section is for, it's been knob all help in trying
>to get me any decent "synth" sounds on it.
>
>Any pointers, anything I can try, any way to initialise the thing...
>
>
>Thanks if any one can help me sort this..
>
>Rob
>
>
>
>
>PolySix "Digiest" Page: 
><http://www.acc.umu.se/~amber/Poly6>http://www.acc.umu.se/~amber/Poly6
>
>
>
>----------
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>    * To visit your group on the web, go to:
>    * 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PolySix/>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PolySix/
>    *
>    * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>    * 
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>
>    *
>    * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the 
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Yahoo! Terms of Service.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi,
looks to me like you have problem with one voice.
It requires trimming, and if it doesn't help, the chips in that voice
may be faulty.
I suggest the following:
1. find the faulty voice - there's a LED in each voice, so you know
for sure which of the 6 are faulty when you play it.
2. adjust the voice according to tuning procedure
3. if it doesn't help, replace filter chip (SSM2044) and envelope
generator (SSM2056?) with chips from any other voice. If the problem
occurs with that other voice now, you know you have faulty chips.
4. check also connections between voice and CPU board. Best is to
disconnect and reconnect them several times.
5. if that sounds too techy for you, give the P6 to someone who can fix it.
It looks like a 1-hour job for anyone familiar with P6 or analog synths
in general.

you don't hear the problem in unison because there are all 6 voices
playing and if there's something weird in one of them it gets covered
by other 5.

Roman

||-----Original Message-----
||From: dotwav [mailto:rob19@eggconnect.net]
||Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 4:06 PM
||To: PolySix@yahoogroups.com
||Subject: [PolySix] Does my Polysix have a problem (from S.O.S forum)
||
||
||At the bottom is the message I wrote to the sound on sound forum, 
||somebody advised I post it here as well.Apparently it appears as if 
||there is a problem with the P6, so I've had another play around with 
||it to see if I can identify some more symptoms.
||I'm sorr if it all seems a bit here and there, bu as I write it, 
||I've been trying things out.
||
||Going through the patch banks, all but one sound (so thats 1 of 23) 
||sounds fine in poly mode when it's switched on, if I play about with 
||the delay in the MG section, or the decay in the EG section I can 
||put it into "6th note differnt mode"
||This is where if I play 6 notes, (either the same or different, 
||varying lengths doesnt matter) the sixth note always sounds 
||different to the 5 before it, usually the 6th note will be quiet, or 
||vastly different in resonance or something.
||Of the other 23 patches, most of them suffer this 6th different note 
||in one of two types, the type I've just explained where the patch is 
||audible for 5 notes then quiet or differnt on the 6th, or, there are 
||some patches that are virtually quiet, and then sound something on 
||the sixth note. (and they have this from the preset, playing about 
||with the delay or decay doesnt alter the 6th note)
||The other type of sixth note note it's doing is when I switch to any 
||number of patches (there's about 12 that do this) It plays a note, 
||but carries on playing the note even tho I let go of the key, (like 
||a chord hold)... press a different key, for 5 times and it still 
||plays the first one and none of the keys just pressed, press a key 
||the 6th time and it starts to play the 6th note on hold until 
||another cycle of 6 comes round at which point it'll play whatever 
||6th note was then hit.Again this is in the patch that way.
||I'm thinking, because all patches sound this way in one way or 
||another, it can't be that they were programmed like this.
||
||One suggestion, was the battery may had leaked, but this was one of 
||the first things I checked whenI bought it, and the battery looks 
||like a new one (I can take a picture of the circut board around the 
||battrey for anyone that thinks this may be the problem, it looks ok 
||to me, but an expericed pair of eyes may tell me otherwise.)
||
||Finally, and possibly not to do with this problem, can someone 
||explain the function of this EG switch - again I just tried th piano 
||patch from the patch sheet, and it didnt sound anything like a piano 
||(unless piano sound a bit spacey bass), and I think the patch sheet 
||is telling me to have the eg switch on. This results in the note 
||playing on hold (and actually stays on hold until a 6th not is 
||pplaye when the 6th note the plays on hold).
||
||When in unision mode, I don't suffer with this 6th note difference. 
||(well I havent come across it yet)
||
||Another thing I've just stumbled on (patch 8 bank A) quiet for 5 
||notes, noise for 6th, so doesnt play much, (patch 7 bank A) first 
||note pressed is one of these held notes, throw the EG switch on, 
||then off again, and patch 7 plays notes normally, switch back to 
||patch 8, and it's now playing normally too, however, play around 
||with the knobs and i can put it into 6th note different, tried this 
||on some other patches, and it does the same thing.
||
||If I discover anything, I'll post that up too... Anywats a picture 
||of the battery are, can do that (can I attach pic files here)
||
||Rob
||
||
||
||
||
||
||SOS forum posting.
||
||Had my polysix for about 4 months now, got my hands on the 
||programming side of it straight away.However, I was a bit put off, 
||as a lot of the time when it's in poly mode, I get odd "results". 
||Having bought it second hand, it had programs already on it, when 
||you hit a note, you get a sound, hit it consecutivley a number of 
||times, and every sixth note sounds different (most of the time, 
||silent)... or the opposite, 5 notes of silence, and the an audible 
||sound on the sixth. I'm sure this is just the way it's programmed, 
||but I can't seem to make many sounds where it doesnt do this. (I did 
||get 1 sound on both poly and unision, where it doesnt have this 
||effect, but it's a pretty lame sound and I can't remember what I did 
||to get rid of this error on this particular patch. (<- NOW INCORRECT)
||Having said all that, if anyone has seen the patch sheets for the 
||original sounds (picked them up from here OldSchool Sound , I 
||downloaded copies of them today, and as an example, I tried 
||programming the piano sound to see how it sounded, and all I get is 
||some really slow oscillating bass type sound.
||
||I have a copy of the manual for this, and though it gives you an 
||idea of what each section is for, it's been knob all help in trying 
||to get me any decent "synth" sounds on it.
||
||Any pointers, anything I can try, any way to initialise the thing...
||
||
||Thanks if any one can help me sort this.. 
||
||Rob 
||
||
||
||PolySix "Digiest" Page: http://www.acc.umu.se/~amber/Poly6 
||
||Yahoo! Groups Links
||
||To visit your group on the web, go to:
|| http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PolySix/
||
||To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
|| PolySix-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
||
||Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
|| http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
||
||
||
||
||---------------------------------------------------------
||This message has been scanned for viruses by MIMESweeper.
||
||Wiadomosc zostala sprawdzona pod katem wirusow przez
||oprogramowanie MIMESweeper.
||


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Thanks for the info greg, will give that a try. Something I'm a bit 
baffled about is, I had heard the polysix can do six voice, I'm a bit 
unsure as to the specification of this, can i create a patch using 
just 1 voice, or say three for example, or, do all patches use all 
six voices. (apologies for the "newbie-ness" of this question. What 
I'm wondering, is, can I look at each voice individually, and see if 
one of them is at fault (if so, I'd imagine it wouldnt be as 
programmable as the others)... I don't know how to edit seperate 
voices.
Will report back at a later point with the factory date test.

Rob


--------------------------------------------------------------------
<greg.montalbano@u...> wrote:
My first impression would be that the machine has one faulty voice -- 
it needs either trimming or repair.
However, first thing you want to try is dumping the current memory 
(save it  to tape or computer if you like some of the patches) and re-
loading the factory data (available a number of places on the web).
If the problem persists, it's not a data problem;  it's a voice 
problem, and we'll have to narrow it down from there.
 
~GMM
 ANALOG SYNTHESIZER SERVICE & MODIFICATION

Hi Roman, this was great, many thanks.
I have found that the sixth voice had a faulty SSM2056 (EG) chip. 
When I moved just the 2056 to another voice, the fauly note appeared 
on the new voice, when I moved just the 2044, the faulty voice was 
still no.6 (it hadnt been moved at this point and 2056 was still in 
voice 6)
There appears to be a number of adjustable pots (I think thats what 
they are, and I'm assuming it's one of these that you adjust for 
tuning, however, a little unsure as to what you mean by "adjust the 
voice to tuning procedure" as I don't know what the correct 
procedure is, so I think I'll just change the chip and hopefully 
that will solve my problem.

Thanks again for the help... Rob



--- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, Sowa Roman <roman.sowa@u...> wrote:
 Hi,
 looks to me like you have problem with one voice.
 It requires trimming, and if it doesn't help, the chips in that 
voice may be faulty.
 I suggest the following:
 1. find the faulty voice - there's a LED in each voice, so you know
 for sure which of the 6 are faulty when you play it.
 2. adjust the voice according to tuning procedure
 3. if it doesn't help, replace filter chip (SSM2044) and envelope
 generator (SSM2056?) with chips from any other voice. If the problem
 occurs with that other voice now, you know you have faulty chips.
 4. check also connections between voice and CPU board. Best is to
 disconnect and reconnect them several times.
 5. if that sounds too techy for you, give the P6 to someone who can 
fix it.
 Roman

Glad to hear you found the cause for the problem !

Actually  have a much similiar problem on my Kawai SX-210 (great 
synth BTW),

One of the 8 notes it can play (oscillator) will always sound duller 
than the other 7. Actually, it is like the EG (the filter's ADSR) 
won't effect on it. When you play some chord that contains the 
problemtic note, the whole sound will sound scattered (ta ta ta ta ta)
and as you tweak some parameters on the EG (ADSR) it will sound 
faster or slower (the "tatatatata" sound).

I was mainly focued on the computer board as the problems started 
when the battary (placed on that board) has leaked all over, so I
had to reaplce some parts and rewire many traces,

But now it looks like the problem should lay on the 2nd oscillator 
(that's the one that sounds different). Is that right ?

I noticed the audio circuit uses the same SSM2044 chips (for 
filters?) but no 2056 chips. Instead there are a few CD4066BE chips 
for every oscillator. Is that the EG chip ? 

I saw that the Moog Taurus uses the same CD4066BE chip on the 
Filter/VCA/Envelope circuit... like on the following link -

http://home.debitel.net/user/jhaible/jh_minotaurus_1.pdf

Thanks everyone for any advice !



--- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, "dotwav" <rob19@e...> wrote:
> Hi Roman, this was great, many thanks.
> I have found that the sixth voice had a faulty SSM2056 (EG) chip. 
> When I moved just the 2056 to another voice, the fauly note 
appeared 
> on the new voice, when I moved just the 2044, the faulty voice was 
> still no.6 (it hadnt been moved at this point and 2056 was still in 
> voice 6)
> There appears to be a number of adjustable pots (I think thats what 
> they are, and I'm assuming it's one of these that you adjust for 
> tuning, however, a little unsure as to what you mean by "adjust the 
> voice to tuning procedure" as I don't know what the correct 
> procedure is, so I think I'll just change the chip and hopefully 
> that will solve my problem.
> 
> Thanks again for the help... Rob
> 
> 
> 
> --- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, Sowa Roman <roman.sowa@u...> wrote:
>  Hi,
>  looks to me like you have problem with one voice.
>  It requires trimming, and if it doesn't help, the chips in that 
> voice may be faulty.
>  I suggest the following:
>  1. find the faulty voice - there's a LED in each voice, so you know
>  for sure which of the 6 are faulty when you play it.
>  2. adjust the voice according to tuning procedure
>  3. if it doesn't help, replace filter chip (SSM2044) and envelope
>  generator (SSM2056?) with chips from any other voice. If the 
problem
>  occurs with that other voice now, you know you have faulty chips.
>  4. check also connections between voice and CPU board. Best is to
>  disconnect and reconnect them several times.
>  5. if that sounds too techy for you, give the P6 to someone who 
can 
> fix it.
>  Roman

Oh, and I forgot to mention that the problemtic note actually plays 
well for a few seconds when I turn on the synth, and only than starts 
to sound odd. It this temperture related ? I can try using cooling 
spray on those parts.






--- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, "gil_we" <gilwe@h...> wrote:
> Glad to hear you found the cause for the problem !
> 
> Actually  have a much similiar problem on my Kawai SX-210 (great 
> synth BTW),
> 
> One of the 8 notes it can play (oscillator) will always sound 
duller 
> than the other 7. Actually, it is like the EG (the filter's ADSR) 
> won't effect on it. When you play some chord that contains the 
> problemtic note, the whole sound will sound scattered (ta ta ta ta 
ta)

> and as you tweak some parameters on the EG (ADSR) it will sound 
> faster or slower (the "tatatatata" sound).
> 
> I was mainly focued on the computer board as the problems started 
> when the battary (placed on that board) has leaked all over, so I
> had to reaplce some parts and rewire many traces,
> 
> But now it looks like the problem should lay on the 2nd oscillator 
> (that's the one that sounds different). Is that right ?
> 
> I noticed the audio circuit uses the same SSM2044 chips (for 
> filters?) but no 2056 chips. Instead there are a few CD4066BE chips 
> for every oscillator. Is that the EG chip ? 
> 
> I saw that the Moog Taurus uses the same CD4066BE chip on the 
> Filter/VCA/Envelope circuit... like on the following link -
> 
> http://home.debitel.net/user/jhaible/jh_minotaurus_1.pdf
> 
> Thanks everyone for any advice !

I fixed it !

Just as I thought the problem was a faulty 4066 IC lays (probably) at 
the EG section of the 2nd oscillator.


--- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, "gil_we" <gilwe@h...> wrote:
> Oh, and I forgot to mention that the problemtic note actually plays 
> well for a few seconds when I turn on the synth, and only than 
starts 
> to sound odd. It this temperture related ? I can try using cooling 
> spray on those parts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, "gil_we" <gilwe@h...> wrote:
> > Glad to hear you found the cause for the problem !
> > 
> > Actually  have a much similiar problem on my Kawai SX-210 (great 
> > synth BTW),
> > 
> > One of the 8 notes it can play (oscillator) will always sound 
> duller 
> > than the other 7. Actually, it is like the EG (the filter's ADSR) 
> > won't effect on it. When you play some chord that contains the 
> > problemtic note, the whole sound will sound scattered (ta ta ta 
ta 
> ta)
> > and as you tweak some parameters on the EG (ADSR) it will sound 
> > faster or slower (the "tatatatata" sound).
> > 
> > I was mainly focued on the computer board as the problems started 
> > when the battary (placed on that board) has leaked all over, so I
> > had to reaplce some parts and rewire many traces,
> > 
> > But now it looks like the problem should lay on the 2nd 
oscillator 
> > (that's the one that sounds different). Is that right ?
> > 
> > I noticed the audio circuit uses the same SSM2044 chips (for 
> > filters?) but no 2056 chips. Instead there are a few CD4066BE 
chips 

> > for every oscillator. Is that the EG chip ? 
> > 
> > I saw that the Moog Taurus uses the same CD4066BE chip on the 
> > Filter/VCA/Envelope circuit... like on the following link -
> > 
> > http://home.debitel.net/user/jhaible/jh_minotaurus_1.pdf
> > 
> > Thanks everyone for any advice !