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PolySix MG Issue

PolySix MG Issue

2019-01-21 by cwc@dircon.co.uk

After many weeks refurbishing my "new" old PolySix I am very nearly there! I have one last issue before the final tune up and I wondered if anyone had any ideas. All knobs, switches and buttons on the synth work and do what they should. The KLM-367 board is a brand new clone with new clone CPU so I assuming that it is ok.


The issue is that when I turn the PolySix on from cold, the MG frequency is properly set as designated by the preset but "leaks through" at a higher level than the preset's actual values causing a significant wobble in the tone. This happens even when changing presets. Turning the MG frequency and MG level controls to 0 will not entirely eliminate this. At the same time, the arpeggiator pulse leaks into the tone causing "catches" in the tone that can be varied by turning the Arp Speed control. However, all these issues gradually fade as the synth warms up and after a minute or two and the synth works perfectly. On switching the synth off and on again when warm there is a slight MG wobble in the tone on pressing a key which disappears in seconds. Then all is good.


This suggests to me that a component(s) is faulty and is “leaky” but starts to function correctly when it has warmed up. Any ideas?


One other thing I would like to know is whether how long the synth typically takes to initialise. I have noticed that when cold the buttons light for around 8-10 seconds before the synth initialises to preset A1, but when it is warm it initialises instantaneously.

Re: [PolySix] PolySix MG Issue

2019-01-26 by Johannes Hausensteiner

I suspect the power supply.
You may want to check it with DVM and oscilloscope during the warm-up
phase. Or you just replace the electrolytics in the P/S without any
measuring. After decades they probably lost substantial capacity and
need replacement anyway.



On 2019-01-22, 00:46 cwc@dircon.co.uk [PolySix] wrote:
>
>
> After many weeks refurbishing my "new" old PolySix I am very nearly
> there! I have one last issue before the final tune up and I wondered if
> anyone had any ideas. All knobs, switches and buttons on the synth work
> and do what they should. The KLM-367 board is a brand new clone with new
> clone CPU so I assuming that it is ok.
>
>
> The issue is that when I turn the PolySix on from cold, the MG frequency
> is properly set as designated by the preset but "leaks through" at a
> higher level than the preset's actual values causing a significant
> wobble in the tone. This happens even when changing presets. Turning the
> MG frequency and MG level controls to 0 will not entirely eliminate
> this. At the same time, the arpeggiator pulse leaks into the tone
> causing "catches" in the tone that can be varied by turning the Arp
> Speed control. However, all these issues gradually fade as the synth
> warms up and after a minute or two and the synth works perfectly. On
> switching the synth off and on again when warm there is a slight MG
> wobble in the tone on pressing a key which disappears in seconds. Then
> all is good.
>
>
> This suggests to me that a component(s) is faulty and is “leaky” but
> starts to function correctly when it has warmed up. Any ideas?
>
>
> One other thing I would like to know is whether how long the synth
> typically takes to initialise. I have noticed that when cold the buttons
> light for around 8-10 seconds before the synth initialises to preset A1,
> but when it is warm it initialises instantaneously.
>
>
>
>

Re: PolySix MG Issue

2019-01-27 by cwc@dircon.co.uk

HI Johannes, Thanks for your response. I have replaced all the electrolytic capacitors on the power supply including the two large 4700uf and 2200uf ones. Voltages are adjusted and spot on. Since my original post I have noticed that if I disconnect the harness from CN05 from the clone KLM367  (i.e. the connector comes from the patch select, write enable/disable and tape enable/disable part of the KLM371 Programmer Board), patch A.1 comes up without the problematic modulation when I turn the synth on.

Re: [PolySix] Re: PolySix MG Issue

2019-01-27 by RAE LOCKARD

You may have a failing 10uf cap on one of your other boards, pulling the supply down on startup(?). I had a Poly61 and a CX3 with leaky shorted 10uf caps, easy to spot as they will corrode around the solder pad. (Replaced all of them on the CX3)

I would check the programmer board if the 367 is all new. Hope this helps...


On January 27, 2019 at 3:26 PM "cwc@dircon.co.uk [PolySix]" <PolySix@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

 

HI Johannes, Thanks for your response. I have replaced all the electrolytic capacitors on the power supply including the two large 4700uf and 2200uf ones. Voltages are adjusted and spot on. Since my original post I have noticed that if I disconnect the harness from CN05 from the clone KLM367  (i.e. the connector comes from the patch select, write enable/disable and tape enable/disable part of the KLM371 Programmer Board), patch A.1 comes up without the problematic modulation when I turn the synth on.

 


 


 

Re: PolySix MG Issue

2019-02-06 by cwc@dircon.co.uk

Hi Rae & Johannes, You are definitely on to something. I can see from monitoring the power supply voltages that the "modulation" symptoms occur while the voltage is increasing up to 5v after turning the synth on and disappear when a stable 5v is reached. This takes a significant amount of time (1 minute+) when turning the synth on from cold and a split second when turning the synth on when warm. I tried the KLM boards connected in various combinations and found that the 5v supply is indeed being dragged down....by the KLM366 voice board. There are no obviously faulty electrolytic caps on that board (no noticeable bulges, corrosion or goo) but as they can drag drag voltages down and replacing them is cheap and easy for me (I have a vacuum desoldering gun) that is what I will do next. I will then report back. Many thanks to you both.

Re: PolySix MG Issue

2019-02-28 by cwc@dircon.co.uk

Hi all. Recent death in the family, hence no updates for a while. It certainly puts life and hobbies into perspective. Enjoy it while you can, I say. Anyway, I solved the Polysix MG issue. Replacing the electrolytic capacitors on KLM-366 Voice Board did not work – replacing the Key Assigner IC was the answer. Just a hunch that paid off. Strangely, I had tried freezer spray including on the original Key Assigner IC when the synth was warm and working as it should, but it did not provoke the issue to reappear. Anyway, the hunch paid off and it's sorted now. One last question: The synth's EG/Gate switch seems to work fine, but I have been a little thrown by the User Manual which says: “This [gate-type] envelope is not related to the EG in any way”: When I set the switch to gate, there is definitely a change and a gate effect. However, I can sometimes alter the sound with the ADSR when the switch is in gate position. Is this right? Or should the User Manual be taken literally? If there is something wrong, does anyone have any ideas what the cause might be?

Re: [PolySix] Re: PolySix MG Issue

2019-02-28 by <backshall1@bellsouth.net>

It sounds like you are altering the filter with the ADSR, while the gate controls just the volume. If VCF EG Intensity is set to zero, and VCA Mode is set to gate, then the ADSR knobs should not affect anything.
Don B.
 
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2019 4:10 PM
Subject: [PolySix] Re: PolySix MG Issue
 
 

Hi all. Recent death in the family, hence no updates for a while. It certainly puts life and hobbies into perspective. Enjoy it while you can, I say. Anyway, I solved the Polysix MG issue. Replacing the electrolytic capacitors on KLM-366 Voice Board did not work – replacing the Key Assigner IC was the answer. Just a hunch that paid off. Strangely, I had tried freezer spray including on the original Key Assigner IC when the synth was warm and working as it should, but it did not provoke the issue to reappear. Anyway, the hunch paid off and it's sorted now. One last question: The synth's EG/Gate switch seems to work fine, but I have been a little thrown by the User Manual which says: “This [gate-type] envelope is not related to the EG in any way”: When I set the switch to gate, there is definitely a change and a gate effect. However, I can sometimes alter the sound with the ADSR when the switch is in gate position. Is this right? Or should the User Manual be taken literally? If there is something wrong, does anyone have any ideas what the cause might be?

Re: [PolySix] Re: PolySix MG Issue

2019-02-28 by cwc@dircon.co.uk

Hi Don, The synth behaves the way you describe. You put it much better than I ever could! All good. Many thanks :)