Discussion about the Korg PolySix synthesizer

WOW. I can hardly believe it - everyone (who I am incidentally VERY thankful to for their patience) will be greatly relieved to know that I think i've LICKED my problem.

How? On a weird HUNCH - and thanks to Roman and Bob's suggestion - I noticed that my D2 (the zener diode in question) was measuring with a MUCH higher passive resistance than the stock D2 zener on my original board (around 12 Megohm - compared to close to 10K on the original for the same polarity) - so after reading about shunting etc and how zeners typically need a high value resistor (like the 10K next to it) to help them function better in such circuits - that something was off. I was wondering how the HECK the zener i was using would work - assuming (perhaps wrongly) that the current would rather flow through the resistor.

Okay- sorry - i'm  being too verbose. But anyway- I swapped in the OLD D2 from my old polysix board - and NOW it sort of works - it's not perfect... I still have program patch 4 and 5 eternally lit... but other buttons and functions now seem to work. I haven't tried to see if I have audio yet.... but this is a HUGE leap forward to me... so again - thanks SO MUCH you guys for helping... !

(though i still find it disturbing that a brand new zener diode was somehow impeding my progress - something I never would have suspected - since I'd been over every component with a fine toothed comb it seemed...)

Thus far the MG, EG, VCO, VCA, EFFECTS, PROGRAM sections have been unresponsive. Though the ARP, KEY ASSIGN and other basic functions seemed to work okay (and all voices seem to be more or less tuned (which is nice) even if I can only get the upper octave to work (one thing at a time right?) - SO - THAT BEING SAID - i thought i'd see if the reset and calibration procedure would set things right - so turning VR1 clockwise - i got everything to light up correctly - but when i remove the 56K resistor (was actually a 47K- hoping it was close enough) - there is no change in state (sad face)... so that's the current status.

I suspect you are not applying the 47K resistor correctly.

Here is what that procedure is actually doing:

The CPU should be held in reset as power is first turning on or as it's turning off.
The 5V supply comes up as a ramp when you turn on power and a negative ramp
when you turn it off. The voltage ramps from 0V to 5V, then stays there at power up.
What they want is for reset to be asserted (all of the LEDs on) until the voltage
is pretty close to 5V. When you connect the resistor to the correct points, it
changes the power supply setting a little bit so that the 5V output is lower than 5V.
(This is just temporary, while the resistor is connected) Now you set the trim pot
so that reset just comes on at this new, slightly lower voltage. Now if you remove
the resistor, the 5V should go back up to its correct value, and the LEDs should go off.

If nothing happens when you remove the resistor, that sounds to me like you are not
connecting the resistor correctly, so the 5V is not changing when you connect it,
or when you remove it. In that case, if you make reset come on, it will stay on.
Please measure the 5V supply at the 367 bd and confirm that it is dropping when you
connect the resistor.

BTW, since you are using a lower value than suggested, you will get more voltage change
than what they wanted. If you don't have a 56K resistor, use 47 + 10K to get 57K. Much
closer. Just twist the leads together and then solder them to get a good connection.
The resistors should be in series, of course.

I don't understand any of what you said about resistors in parallel with zeners to make them
work. That really makes no sense. You do need the correct current through the zener itself.
Too little and you won't get the proper voltage. Too much and you will exceed the power
dissipation of the zener and it will be destroyed. So you need the correct series resistor.
Here that is R41, 120 ohms.

Bob


--------------------------------------------

On Sat, 2/13/16, jw_dewdney@yahoo.com [PolySix] <PolySix@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: [PolySix] Re: PROGRESS!!!!
To: PolySix@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, February 13, 2016, 2:44 AM


 









Thus far the MG, EG, VCO, VCA, EFFECTS, PROGRAM
sections have been unresponsive. Though the ARP, KEY ASSIGN
and other basic functions seemed to work okay (and all
voices seem to be more or less tuned (which is nice) even if
I can only get the upper octave to work (one thing at a time
right?) - SO - THAT BEING SAID - i thought i'd see if
the reset and calibration procedure would set things right -
so turning VR1 clockwise - i got everything to light up
correctly - but when i remove the 56K resistor (was actually
a 47K- hoping it was close enough) - there is no change in
state (sad face)... so that's the current status.









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Hello,

Please forgive me for saying this, but measuring the "resistance" of a
zener diode does not make a lot of sense. This component was designed to
break down in a controlled way when reverse-biased, at a predictable voltage level.
What you should be measuring is the voltage drop across the zener when it is in
the circuit and powered up. That's really the only thing you care about. It should
be close to its rated 3.9VDC. The exact voltage could be 3.7-4.1, depending on
the current. Zeners are not used when the voltage needs to be precisely set. In
that case some sort of laser-trimmed voltage reference would be used instead.
But you can tell if the diode is good (and if you have installed a 3.9V zener and not
a 1N4148. A normal switching diode (1N4148) will not break down with only 5V reverse-bias,
so you would see the full 5V of the power supply across it (the current will be essentially
zero, so the 120 ohm resistor will not have any voltage across it)

BTW, some time ago I uploaded some 'scope waveforms to the files section which you
could look at and compare to what you see on your board. Mostly they are related to
the CPU and the DAC scanning the pots, as that function is often affected by pcb corrosion.
But you may find them helpful.

Bob
--------------------------------------------

On Sat, 2/13/16, jw_dewdney@yahoo.com [PolySix] <PolySix@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: [PolySix] PROGRESS!!!!
To: PolySix@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, February 13, 2016, 12:55 AM


WOW. I can hardly believe it - everyone (who I am
incidentally VERY thankful to for their patience) will be
greatly relieved to know that I think i've LICKED my
problem.

How? On a weird
HUNCH - and thanks to Roman and Bob's suggestion - I
noticed that my D2 (the zener diode in question) was
measuring with a MUCH higher passive resistance than the
stock D2 zener on my original board (around 12 Megohm -
compared to close to 10K on the original for the same
polarity) - so after reading about shunting etc and how
zeners typically need a high value resistor (like the 10K
next to it) to help them function better in such circuits -
that something was off. I was wondering how the HECK the
zener i was using would work - assuming (perhaps wrongly)
that the current would rather flow through the resistor.

Okay- sorry - i'm  being
too verbose. But anyway- I swapped in the OLD D2 from my old
polysix board - and NOW it sort of works - it's not
perfect... I still have program patch 4 and 5 eternally
lit... but other buttons and functions now seem to work. I
haven't tried to see if I have audio yet.... but this is
a HUGE leap forward to me... so again - thanks SO MUCH you
guys for helping... !









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Bob, well I can post some links i was reading on the subject... to explain further about the resistor business. But it really doesn't matter... since it was just the means by which I thought to try using the OLD zener diode. The point was the new ones were measuring very very differently. although it disturbs me since i used the precise part Jed recommended and where possible, all new parts. But i got past my hump starting the processor. So that's the important thing.

okat thanks for the info Roman... very good to know. Bummer that the problem is on the KLM367 board though! I was hoping I'd solved my problems with it. Too bad you can't see the board... it's very cleanly done... though i am certain you are all imagining a mess with solder bridges and cold joints everywhere...haha. But clearly there must be a problem somewhere. *sigh* i do not relish having to be so dependent on others... so I guess it's nothing the calibration procedure might resolve?

yes Bob... it was the 'proper zener spec' that I used for D2... assuming the seller on ebay sent me the proper part number... i get what you are saying about the correct measuring method...  but it worked nonetheless... and led to my being suspicious of it and swapping it out for the original.

okay Bob... thanks for the calibration info. It's much more informative than the service manual, i did it by soldering the resistor across the connector pins inside the connector while the polysix was OFF. And then unsoldering it while ON....  So it makes more sense to me why it wouldnt work (unless a deeper problem is still at play here as Roman suggested). Perhaps i shouldnt be trying the calibration routine yet even?

To troubleshoot the "staying in reset" issue when you try to do the procedure in the manual,
put your meter on the 5V supply at the KLM367 board and watch it when the 56 ohm resistor
is connected and disconnected. It should be dropping by a noticeable amount when the resistor
is connected, and then changing back when the resistor is removed.

BTW, the first step, I think, is setting the supply voltages after giving things a chance to warm up.
Did you do that one?

Bob

--------------------------------------------

On Sat, 2/13/16, jw_dewdney@yahoo.com [PolySix] <PolySix@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [PolySix] Re: PROGRESS!!!!
To: PolySix@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, February 13, 2016, 1:41 PM


 









okay Bob... thanks for the calibration info.
It's much more informative than the service manual, i
did it by soldering the resistor across the connector pins
inside the connector while the polysix was OFF. And then
unsoldering it while ON....  So it makes more sense to me
why it wouldnt work (unless a deeper problem is still at
play here as Roman suggested). Perhaps i shouldnt be trying
the calibration routine yet even?









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#yiv7491229255

i checked them yes - many times - and the 5v was constantly at 4.96 and the 15 v at 14.92 or something - both seemed MORE than close enough... (?)