Discussion about the Korg PolySix synthesizer

Greetings All...

I've been lurking for several weeks now, ever since I finally had the 
spare cash to purchase a PolySix.  I've been wanting one for quite a 
while.  I used to have a Poly 61 so I'm somewhat familiar with the 
guts these things having kept that keyboard assembly working for 15 
years and replaced the leaking battery.  

So I bought a PolySix off Ebay and as it was described I was 
expecting a battery leak to be the main cause of the problems 
(described as "I don't know how this works and while it creates 
sounds some keys don't work and I think it has other problems"). I 
did, however, get it for $125 shipped. The outward cosmetics are very 
good, the only blemishes are worn "wood" corners at the bottom rear.  
The first thing I did this evening before I plugged it in and turned 
it on was to open it up and check out the battery and the general 
condition of the insides.

Not too bad *looking* in there: the battery had already been 
replaced, however it doesn't look like it was done thoughtfully: 
resistor R91 and capacitor C40 are still there; the new battery is a 
lithium battery (I know I have to get resistor R91 and capacitor C40 
out of there); and the negative side is attached to the trace that 
runs along the board's side with a thick piece of copper wire. It 
looks like a few traces may have been hit with some battery acid or 
something because they're ever-so-slightly bubbly.  All look intact.  
The most noticable thing though is that the solder on the holes 
around IC31 are corroded, although the legs of IC31 *look* fine.

Okay, so I'm going to have to clean that up.  Or should I bother and 
just buy Scott's replacement?  Here's why I ask:  I closed up the 
PolySix because I *had* to hear it.  Upon power up everything looks 
normal except that bank buttons A and B and patch buttons 1 and 2 
stay lit, although slightly dimmer than the brightness of the other 
LEDs on the other buttons (when turned on, of course).  It seems as 
though I can select those patches and banks, but the LEDs on those 
buttons never go off.

Secondly, I can't really hear a difference when I select the 
different waveforms, and the octave doesn't change.  The PW and PWM 
do work, though.  Everything else seems to work fine.  I checked the 
voice chips by watching the little LEDs on that board light up as I 
hit a key and they all work.  The keyboard needs a cleaning, but it's 
not as bad as my old Poly 61 used to get.

Would these problems be resolved after a good cleaning of the buttons 
and pots and obviously fixing the crappy battery replacement job?  Or 
are these issues more ominous and it would be less hassle to get 
Scott's board?

Whew!  That's a lot of typing.  Thanks for reading and thanks in 
advance for your advice!

At 12:15 AM 11/12/03 +0000, you wrote:

>Not too bad *looking* in there: the battery had already been
>replaced, however it doesn't look like it was done thoughtfully:
>resistor R91 and capacitor C40 are still there; the new battery is a
>lithium battery (I know I have to get resistor R91 and capacitor C40
>out of there); and the negative side is attached to the trace that
>runs along the board's side with a thick piece of copper wire. It
>looks like a few traces may have been hit with some battery acid or
>something because they're ever-so-slightly bubbly.  All look intact.
>The most noticable thing though is that the solder on the holes
>around IC31 are corroded, although the legs of IC31 *look* fine.

Sounds suspicious to me -- would suggest having the battery & traces 
checked out by someone who's familiar with the circuit.


>Okay, so I'm going to have to clean that up.  Or should I bother and
>just buy Scott's replacement?  Here's why I ask:  I closed up the
>PolySix because I *had* to hear it.  Upon power up everything looks
>normal except that bank buttons A and B and patch buttons 1 and 2
>stay lit, although slightly dimmer than the brightness of the other
>LEDs on the other buttons (when turned on, of course).  It seems as
>though I can select those patches and banks, but the LEDs on those
>buttons never go off.
>
>Secondly, I can't really hear a difference when I select the
>different waveforms, and the octave doesn't change.

These control lines from the front panel feed into the board via a 
connector (CN06, if I recall correctly -- don't have the schematics in 
front of me).  That connector is near the end of the board that is most 
susceptible to damage from battery leaks (which I'm assuming happened in 
this case).

As far as the leds staying on -- if the functions work, it's not too severe 
a problem -- most likely one or two signal traces shorted by the leak problem.



>Would these problems be resolved after a good cleaning of the buttons
>and pots and obviously fixing the crappy battery replacement job?  Or
>are these issues more ominous and it would be less hassle to get
>Scott's board?

Depends -- some battery-damaged boards are an easy fix, and work just 
fine  once the damage has been repaired;  some take a lot more time & trouble.
So, it depends on how much time, effort & expense you're willing to put 
into it.
Where are you located?  Might be able to help out, at least as far as 
establishing the repairability of the board.

~GMM



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Sounds suspicious to me -- would suggest having the battery & 
traces 
> checked out by someone who's familiar with the circuit.

I will be giving it the ol' tinkerer's go at it first I think. I 
figure, it's not usable to me until it's fully functional (I've been 
through trying to use a crippled CS-80 and it really became 
frustrating), so if I'm successful then good for me, but if I'm not I 
get the board fixed or replaced and it's still good for me.  

I've been reading up on the mechanics and end-results of the battery 
leakage issue; I've learned a lot about what happened like the 
battery doesn't need to burst to be leaking (my Poly 61 did this), 
and that the corrosion can travel up the traces over time.  I also 
learned that the battery was replaced in 1997, but that it still had 
problems afterward.  Since then it sat in storage.  

I've read up on how to identify the bad traces, and I think I can 
salvage the top, especially since after some cleaning last night I 
believe the IC legs are all okay.  I'll have to remove the board and 
see what the bottom looks like.  I'd have to remove that board anyway.


>> These control lines from the front panel feed into the board via a 
> connector (CN06, if I recall correctly -- don't have the schematics 
in 
> front of me).  That connector is near the end of the board that is 
most 
> susceptible to damage from battery leaks (which I'm assuming 
happened in 
> this case).

Yeah, that makes total sense.  I can simply follow the traces to that 
connector and see where they're going and if they're not conducting 
or the trace's destination is malfunctioning. 

> 
> As far as the leds staying on -- if the functions work, it's not 
too severe 
> a problem -- most likely one or two signal traces shorted by the 
leak problem.
> 
> 

I couldn't find an answer to this matter in my research, although one 
person in a Google Groups search asked about a very similar 
circumstance but wasn't replied to.  Based on what I've pieced 
together, these buttons are tied to the board in question as well, 
and that it's possible an IC has a bad connection or is itself 
malfunctioning.


> 
> Depends -- some battery-damaged boards are an easy fix, and work 
just 
> fine  once the damage has been repaired;  some take a lot more time 
& trouble.
> So, it depends on how much time, effort & expense you're willing to 
put 
> into it.
> Where are you located?  Might be able to help out, at least as far 
as 
> establishing the repairability of the board.
> 
> ~GMM


Thank you very much for your kind offer.  I live in Buffalo, NY if 
you are anywhere near by. I can offer coffee and some bad jokes.

I think I've made up my mind since I posted intially that I'll try 
and learn from this first.  Then, if I'm not successful, Old Crow 
could bail me out (for a fee, of course).  I hope I'm successful, 
because it'll just really enhance the relationship I'll have with the 
instrument.  Not to say swapping boards wouldn't be enough, but, I 
guess it's a goofy thing.  I'm very excited to get it working no 
matter how it occurs.

Anyway, I'm still fishing for any advice and guidance the community 
here can provide.

Thanks!
Rich

At 04:58 AM 11/13/03 +0000, you wrote:

>I will be giving it the ol' tinkerer's go at it first I think. I
>figure, it's not usable to me until it's fully functional (I've been
>through trying to use a crippled CS-80 and it really became
>frustrating), so if I'm successful then good for me, but if I'm not I
>get the board fixed or replaced and it's still good for me.

OK -- just be sure you have a copy of the schematics, and some patience.


>I think I've made up my mind since I posted intially that I'll try
>and learn from this first.  Then, if I'm not successful, Old Crow
>could bail me out (for a fee, of course).

You won't go far wrong with Scot (the Old Crow).

>I hope I'm successful,
>because it'll just really enhance the relationship I'll have with the
>instrument.  Not to say swapping boards wouldn't be enough, but, I
>guess it's a goofy thing.  I'm very excited to get it working no
>matter how it occurs.

I know the feeling -- I've done quite a few of these, and they really ARE 
repairable;  just a matter of how thorough you want to be.  I'm a great 
believer in self-maintenance & learning by doing;  just so you're careful 
not to do more harm than good.
If you get to the point, you could mail the board to me here in California 
(no Arnold jokes, please;  it's bad enough having to live here) & I could 
go over it.

Good luck.

~G



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello there the nightmare has begun just kiding I first got my 
polysix it was promised that it work perfect 
hahahhahahahahahahahhhahah
my main board was gone the things that where happing where all the 
lights where staying on and it would only make one sound that I realy 
got tierd of keys where not responding at all nothing work except that
old stupid noise over and over and over but it now works and it was 
totaly worth every bit of sweat its not hard at all you just have to 
know that the main board that the battery is on is almost always the 
problem the ic next to the battery could have bad traces under the ic 
chip so you should remove the ic chip first then review the board and 
traces u may have to replace the traces and then the battery should 
be replaced with a coin type battery the old crow has this all step 
by step take note that u should know how to solder real good take 
your time and read the info over and over let me know if you need 
help we could set up a time to chat and get that board up and running 
on chat on the computer that is 
later Sam 





 --- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, greg montalbano 
<greg.montalbano@u...> wrote:
> At 04:58 AM 11/13/03 +0000, you wrote:
> 
> >I will be giving it the ol' tinkerer's go at it first I think. I
> >figure, it's not usable to me until it's fully functional (I've 
been
> >through trying to use a crippled CS-80 and it really became
> >frustrating), so if I'm successful then good for me, but if I'm 
not I
> >get the board fixed or replaced and it's still good for me.
> 
> OK -- just be sure you have a copy of the schematics, and some 
patience.
> 
> 
> >I think I've made up my mind since I posted intially that I'll try
> >and learn from this first.  Then, if I'm not successful, Old Crow
> >could bail me out (for a fee, of course).
> 
> You won't go far wrong with Scot (the Old Crow).
> 
> >I hope I'm successful,
> >because it'll just really enhance the relationship I'll have with 
the
> >instrument.  Not to say swapping boards wouldn't be enough, but, I
> >guess it's a goofy thing.  I'm very excited to get it working no
> >matter how it occurs.
> 
> I know the feeling -- I've done quite a few of these, and they 
really ARE 
> repairable;  just a matter of how thorough you want to be.  I'm a 
great 
> believer in self-maintenance & learning by doing;  just so you're 
careful 
> not to do more harm than good.
> If you get to the point, you could mail the board to me here in 
California 
> (no Arnold jokes, please;  it's bad enough having to live here) & I 
could 

> go over it.
> 
> Good luck.
> 
> ~G
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Holy shit punctuation....

----- Original Message -----
From: "kissthebats" <kissthebats@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:19:20 -0000
To: PolySix@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PolySix] Re: PolySix arrived today - I'm happy and I'm sad

> Hello there the nightmare has begun just kiding I first got my 
> polysix it was promised that it work perfect 
> hahahhahahahahahahahhhahah
> my main board was gone the things that where happing where all the 
> lights where staying on and it would only make one sound that I realy 
> got tierd of keys where not responding at all nothing work except that
> old stupid noise over and over and over but it now works and it was 
> totaly worth every bit of sweat its not hard at all you just have to 
> know that the main board that the battery is on is almost always the 
> problem the ic next to the battery could have bad traces under the ic 
> chip so you should remove the ic chip first then review the board and 
> traces u may have to replace the traces and then the battery should 
> be replaced with a coin type battery the old crow has this all step 
> by step take note that u should know how to solder real good take 
> your time and read the info over and over let me know if you need 
> help we could set up a time to chat and get that board up and running 
> on chat on the computer that is 
> later Sam 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  --- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, greg montalbano 
> <greg.montalbano@u...> wrote:
> > At 04:58 AM 11/13/03 +0000, you wrote:
> > 
> > >I will be giving it the ol' tinkerer's go at it first I think. I
> > >figure, it's not usable to me until it's fully functional (I've 
> been
> > >through trying to use a crippled CS-80 and it really became
> > >frustrating), so if I'm successful then good for me, but if I'm 
> not I
> > >get the board fixed or replaced and it's still good for me.
> > 
> > OK -- just be sure you have a copy of the schematics, and some 
> patience.
> > 
> > 
> > >I think I've made up my mind since I posted intially that I'll try
> > >and learn from this first.  Then, if I'm not successful, Old Crow
> > >could bail me out (for a fee, of course).
> > 
> > You won't go far wrong with Scot (the Old Crow).
> > 
> > >I hope I'm successful,
> > >because it'll just really enhance the relationship I'll have with 
> the
> > >instrument.  Not to say swapping boards wouldn't be enough, but, I
> > >guess it's a goofy thing.  I'm very excited to get it working no
> > >matter how it occurs.
> > 
> > I know the feeling -- I've done quite a few of these, and they 
> really ARE 
> > repairable;  just a matter of how thorough you want to be.  I'm a 
> great 
> > believer in self-maintenance & learning by doing;  just so you're 
> careful 
> > not to do more harm than good.
> > If you get to the point, you could mail the board to me here in 
> California 
> > (no Arnold jokes, please;  it's bad enough having to live here) & I 
> could 
> > go over it.
> > 
> > Good luck.
> > 
> > ~G
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> PolySix-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> 
> PolySix "Digiest" Page: http://www.acc.umu.se/~amber/Poly6 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 



.sig
-Chromatest J. Pantsmaker
http://its10pm.tripod.com

Thanks, I hope I don't have to take you up your offer!  However, if I 
do get to "that point," I'm glad to know I have some options.

Right now I'm waiting to see if I can get an old mobo from work so I 
can harvest the battery holder.  Radio Shack apparently doesn't carry 
the part listed at the Old Crow's site these days (I went to a few 
local ones looking for even some left over stock).  In the meantime, 
I'll start by cleaning the keybed and seeing if the dodgy patch #4 
button can be cleaned.

I may be screaming for help soon enough!

Rich 


> 
> I know the feeling -- I've done quite a few of these, and they 
really ARE 
> repairable;  just a matter of how thorough you want to be.  I'm a 
great 
> believer in self-maintenance & learning by doing;  just so you're 
careful 
> not to do more harm than good.
> If you get to the point, you could mail the board to me here in 
California 
> (no Arnold jokes, please;  it's bad enough having to live here) & I 
could 

> go over it.
> 
> Good luck.
> 
> ~G
>

Radio Shack loves to do this: stock a part, then discontinue it.

  The next-best solution is to just buy a CR2032RH battery.  These have 
solder tabs on them.  www.mouser.com has them as stock# 614-CR2032RH.

  Ideally, you want a CR2032RH1 (which Mouser lists but does not stock),
but the tabs of an -RH can be bent to fit just fine in the PCB holes.

  ref: http://www.renata.com/content/tabbedlithium/3pinshorizontal.pdf

Crow
/**/

On Sat, 15 Nov 2003, toorglick wrote:

> Right now I'm waiting to see if I can get an old mobo from work so I can
> harvest the battery holder.  Radio Shack apparently doesn't carry the
> part listed at the Old Crow's site these days (I went to a few local
> ones looking for even some left over stock).  In the meantime, I'll
> start by cleaning the keybed and seeing if the dodgy patch #4 button can
> be cleaned.

Sorry!  I thought I saw your name was Scott as I read through the 
older messages here.  I feel like a boob, seeing that your name is 
actually Christopher.  I beg your pardon for that.

Anyway, there's a sort of boutique battery chain in my area that 
probably carries that next-best part, so I'll be giving them a call.  
Thanks!



--- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, The Old Crow <oldcrow@o...> wrote:
> 
>   Radio Shack loves to do this: stock a part, then discontinue it.
> 
>   The next-best solution is to just buy a CR2032RH battery.  These 
have 
> solder tabs on them.  www.mouser.com has them as stock# 614-
CR2032RH.
> 
>   Ideally, you want a CR2032RH1 (which Mouser lists but does not 
stock),
> but the tabs of an -RH can be bent to fit just fine in the PCB 
holes.
> 
>   ref: 
http://www.renata.com/content/tabbedlithium/3pinshorizontal.pdf
> 
> Crow
> /**/
> 
> On Sat, 15 Nov 2003, toorglick wrote:
> 
> > Right now I'm waiting to see if I can get an old mobo from work 
so I can
> > harvest the battery holder.  Radio Shack apparently doesn't carry 
the
> > part listed at the Old Crow's site these days (I went to a few 
local
> > ones looking for even some left over stock).  In the meantime, 
I'll
> > start by cleaning the keybed and seeing if the dodgy patch #4 
button can
> > be cleaned.