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some defects after battery leak

some defects after battery leak

2015-05-14 by johandevroede@yahoo.com

Hi, I am a new member. I live in Belgium and I am dutch speaking so maybe all my writing is not correct ;-(

I have a polysix that has always been mine. It also had the battery leaking problem. I managed to repair some broken circuit lines and I think they are all as they should be. ( checked with an OHM-meter all the connections for IC 31 ) Now most things work ( VCO, MG, VCA, EG and programming  ) but there seems to be an "interaction" between the various knobs. turning the VCF resonance knob  interferes with the EG or effect part and so on. turning the Keyboard tracking results in some strange noises... I mean :  various knobs don't behave as they should do and when I turn them to low or to high it results in changing the sound in a way that is not good ( the EG holds on even when all knobs of the EG are zero or when I turn the speed of the effects it results in a "faulty" noise).... Does anyone have an idea what could be the cause?

Re: [PolySix] some defects after battery leak

2015-05-14 by Chromatest J. Pantsmaker

There are two things (well, more than that actually) that the corrosion will do that we need to pay attention to.  

First is the broken trace, or lack of continuity.  You've checked this with your meter. 

Second is the shorted trace, or too much continuity.  By this I mean that a trace can have continuity to a trace next to it.  That would cause the signals to affect each other.  When you check continuity on the traces, it's important to not only check 1-1, 2-2, 3-3 (and so on) but also to check 1-2, 1-3, 2-3 (and so on)  You want all of the 1-1, 2-2, 3-3 traces to have continuity, and you *DON'T* want the 1-2, 1-3, 2-3 traces to have continuity unless they are actually connected via the schematic.


Re: [PolySix] some defects after battery leak

2015-05-14 by Johan De Vroede

Thanks for the reply. I repaired traces that were broken and I checked if there was continuity between traces that should not be connected to each other. I did this only for IC 31 maybe I will take a wider aerea to check on continuity. The weird thing is that most things work as they should and then when you turn one knob several parameters are changed and not only the one you turn. I put it in manual mode so all knobs function as they are set and then I can get some rather good sound but for example when I then turn the resonance of the VCF a bit then other parameters seem to have changed....any other info? I replaced the IC31 and put it on a socket. Could it be that another IC is defective when I have this strange behavior or do you think this is mostly a result of the corrosion?

Thanks again for the reply


At 14-mei-2015 17:13:41, 'Chromatest J. Pantsmaker' chromatest@azburners.org [PolySix]<'PolySix@yahoogroups.com'> wrote:










There are two things (well, more than that actually) that the corrosion will do that we need to pay attention to.

First is the broken trace, or lack of continuity. You've checked this with your meter.

Second is the shorted trace, or too much continuity. By this I mean that a trace can have continuity to a trace next to it. That would cause the signals to affect each other. When you check continuity on the traces, it's important to not only check 1-1, 2-2, 3-3 (and so on) but also to check 1-2, 1-3, 2-3 (and so on) You want all of the 1-1, 2-2, 3-3 traces to have continuity, and you *DON'T* want the 1-2, 1-3, 2-3 traces to have continuity unless they are actually connected via the schematic.












Re: [PolySix] some defects after battery leak

2015-05-14 by <backshall1@bellsouth.net>

Most of the damage is usually on the eight data lines (D00-D07) and that includes IC30 as well as IC31. The best way to test these is to use the ohm meter to test continuity from one starting point to all the other places these lines are connected. From a suggestion from Andy Jury a long time ago, I usually test from connector CN10 to all the other chips. This can be a bit tedious. D00 is pin 4 on CN10, and needs to be tested to IC31, IC26, IC33, IC28, IC34, then do the same set of tests for the other seven data lines on CN10. Alternatively, you could start from IC31 pin 6 and test continuity to IC26, CN10, IC33, IC28, IC34. When you get to D04-D07, it will be a different set of chips (IC30, IC34, CN10, IC29, IC35).
 
Don Backshall
 
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2015 12:13 PM
Subject: Re: [PolySix] some defects after battery leak
 
 

Thanks for the reply. I repaired traces that were broken and I checked if there was continuity between traces that should not be connected to each other. I did this only for IC 31 maybe I will take a wider aerea to check on continuity. The weird thing is that most things work as they should and then when you turn one knob several parameters are changed and not only the one you turn. I put it in manual mode so all knobs function as they are set and then I can get some rather good sound but for example when I then turn the resonance of the VCF a bit then other parameters seem to have changed....any other info? I replaced the IC31 and put it on a socket. Could it be that another IC is defective when I have this strange behavior or do you think this is mostly a result of the corrosion?

Thanks again for the reply
 

At 14-mei-2015 17:13:41, 'Chromatest J. Pantsmaker' chromatest@azburners.org [PolySix]PolySix@yahoogroups.com'> wrote:



 






There are two things (well, more than that actually) that the corrosion will do that we need to pay attention to.
 
First is the broken trace, or lack of continuity. You've checked this with your meter.

Second is the shorted trace, or too much continuity. By this I mean that a trace can have continuity to a trace next to it. That would cause the signals to affect each other. When you check continuity on the traces, it's important to not only check 1-1, 2-2, 3-3 (and so on) but also to check 1-2, 1-3, 2-3 (and so on) You want all of the 1-1, 2-2, 3-3 traces to have continuity, and you *DON'T* want the 1-2, 1-3, 2-3 traces to have continuity unless they are actually connected via the schematic.

 










Re: [PolySix] some defects after battery leak

2015-05-14 by Johan De Vroede

Thanks for the reply. Tomorrow I will do the tests you suggested and get back with the result.

Hope it helps!



Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

At 14-mei-2015 18:38:07, backshall1@bellsouth.net [PolySix]<'PolySix@yahoogroups.com'> wrote:














Most of the damage is usually on the eight data lines (D00-D07) and that
includes IC30 as well as IC31. The best way to test these is to use the ohm
meter to test continuity from one starting point to all the other places these
lines are connected. From a suggestion from Andy Jury a long time ago, I usually
test from connector CN10 to all the other chips. This can be a bit tedious. D00
is pin 4 on CN10, and needs to be tested to IC31, IC26, IC33, IC28, IC34, then
do the same set of tests for the other seven data lines on CN10. Alternatively,
you could start from IC31 pin 6 and test continuity to IC26, CN10, IC33, IC28,
IC34. When you get to D04-D07, it will be a different set of chips (IC30, IC34,
CN10, IC29, IC35).


Don Backshall






Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2015 12:13 PM


Subject: Re: [PolySix] some defects after battery
leak






Thanks
for the reply. I repaired traces that were broken and I checked if there
was continuity between traces that should not be connected to each other.
I did this only for IC 31 maybe I will take a wider aerea to check on
continuity. The weird thing is that most things work as they should and
then when you turn one knob several parameters are changed and not only
the one you turn. I put it in manual mode so all knobs function as they
are set and then I can get some rather good sound but for example when I
then turn the resonance of the VCF a bit then other parameters seem to
have changed....any other info? I replaced the IC31 and put it on a
socket. Could it be that another IC is defective when I have this strange
behavior or do you think this is mostly a result of the
corrosion?

Thanks again for the reply




At 14-mei-2015 17:13:41,
'Chromatest J. Pantsmaker' chromatest@azburners.org [PolySix]PolySix@yahoogroups.com'>
wrote:















There are two things (well, more than that
actually) that the corrosion will do that we need to pay attention to.


First is the broken trace, or lack of continuity.
You've checked this with your meter.

Second is the shorted trace, or too much continuity. By this
I mean that a trace can have continuity to a trace next to it. That
would cause the signals to affect each other. When you check continuity
on the traces, it's important to not only check 1-1, 2-2, 3-3 (and so
on) but also to check 1-2, 1-3, 2-3 (and so on) You want all of the 1-1,
2-2, 3-3 traces to have continuity, and you *DON'T* want the 1-2, 1-3,
2-3 traces to have continuity unless they are actually connected via the
schematic.
























Re: [PolySix] some defects after battery leak

2015-05-15 by Johan De Vroede

I tested all sugested data lines and they all are okay. One remark : datalines D04-D07 have to be tested to IC30, IC24, IC33, IC29, IC35) and not IC34; there is a faulty diagram of KLM367 on the internet .
The problem still persists. I doublecheked the powersupply and all voltages are okay. So does anyone here have another suggestion? I think it's mainly the VCF that causes all the problems. turning cut off, resonance or KBD track changes the sound from good into a growling sound. Also the ensemle gives growling sounds when turning phase or ensemle too low or too high.


regards and thanks in advance
From: "backshall1@bellsouth.net [PolySix]" <PolySix@yahoogroups.com>
To: PolySix@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2015 6:38 PM
Subject: Re: [PolySix] some defects after battery leak

 
Most of the damage is usually on the eight data lines (D00-D07) and that includes IC30 as well as IC31. The best way to test these is to use the ohm meter to test continuity from one starting point to all the other places these lines are connected. From a suggestion from Andy Jury a long time ago, I usually test from connector CN10 to all the other chips. This can be a bit tedious. D00 is pin 4 on CN10, and needs to be tested to IC31, IC26, IC33, IC28, IC34, then do the same set of tests for the other seven data lines on CN10. Alternatively, you could start from IC31 pin 6 and test continuity to IC26, CN10, IC33, IC28, IC34. When you get to D04-D07, it will be a different set of chips (IC30, IC34, CN10, IC29, IC35).
 
Don Backshall
 


Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2015 12:13 PM
Subject: Re: [PolySix] some defects after battery leak
 
 
Thanks for the reply. I repaired traces that were broken and I checked if there was continuity between traces that should not be connected to each other. I did this only for IC 31 maybe I will take a wider aerea to check on continuity. The weird thing is that most things work as they should and then when you turn one knob several parameters are changed and not only the one you turn. I put it in manual mode so all knobs function as they are set and then I can get some rather good sound but for example when I then turn the resonance of the VCF a bit then other parameters seem to have changed....any other info? I replaced the IC31 and put it on a socket. Could it be that another IC is defective when I have this strange behavior or do you think this is mostly a result of the corrosion?

Thanks again for the reply
 

At 14-mei-2015 17:13:41, 'Chromatest J. Pantsmaker' chromatest@azburners.org [PolySix]PolySix@yahoogroups.com'> wrote:



 






There are two things (well, more than that actually) that the corrosion will do that we need to pay attention to.
 
First is the broken trace, or lack of continuity. You've checked this with your meter.

Second is the shorted trace, or too much continuity. By this I mean that a trace can have continuity to a trace next to it. That would cause the signals to affect each other. When you check continuity on the traces, it's important to not only check 1-1, 2-2, 3-3 (and so on) but also to check 1-2, 1-3, 2-3 (and so on) You want all of the 1-1, 2-2, 3-3 traces to have continuity, and you *DON'T* want the 1-2, 1-3, 2-3 traces to have continuity unless they are actually connected via the schematic.

 












Re: [PolySix] some defects after battery leak

2015-05-15 by <backshall1@bellsouth.net>

You are correct about IC24 being marked incorrectly on the schematic as IC34. It shows two chips marked IC34, but the one beside IC30 should be IC24. I have that written on my paper copy of the schematics. Here is the list I have of schematic errors for the KLM-367.
 
1) On IC30 and IC31, pin 5 in connected to +5v, not pin 4.
 
2) IC30 ground pin is pin 7, not pin 1.
 
3) The 14042 chip below IC26 is IC24, not IC34.
 
4) The capacitor connected between R28 and pin 6 of IC3 is C5, not C4.
 
5) The diode on pin 9 of IC29 is D13, not D12.
 
6) The diode on pin 15 of IC29 is D14, not D13.
 
7) The signal from pin 7 of IC14 is MG Level, not MG Speed.
 
8) Capacitor C33 is connected to the collector of Q5, not the other side of R98.
 
9) The LM339 quad comparator is IC2, not IC3.
 
Are there any other symptoms besides the growling sound, maybe lights turning on when they shouldn’t on the A-D or 0-9 patch buttons? Any other buttons not working properly? It sounds like it could be a D/A converter calibration problem.
 
Don B.
 
Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 6:35 AM
Subject: Re: [PolySix] some defects after battery leak
 
 

I tested all sugested data lines and they all are okay. One remark : datalines D04-D07 have to be tested to IC30, IC24, IC33, IC29, IC35) and not IC34; there is a faulty diagram of KLM367 on the internet .
The problem still persists. I doublecheked the powersupply and all voltages are okay. So does anyone here have another suggestion? I think it's mainly the VCF that causes all the problems. turning cut off, resonance or KBD track changes the sound from good into a growling sound. Also the ensemle gives growling sounds when turning phase or ensemle too low or too high.
 
 
regards and thanks in advance
From: "backshall1@bellsouth.net [PolySix]" <PolySix@yahoogroups.com>
To: PolySix@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2015 6:38 PM
Subject: Re: [PolySix] some defects after battery leak
 
 
Most of the damage is usually on the eight data lines (D00-D07) and that includes IC30 as well as IC31. The best way to test these is to use the ohm meter to test continuity from one starting point to all the other places these lines are connected. From a suggestion from Andy Jury a long time ago, I usually test from connector CN10 to all the other chips. This can be a bit tedious. D00 is pin 4 on CN10, and needs to be tested to IC31, IC26, IC33, IC28, IC34, then do the same set of tests for the other seven data lines on CN10. Alternatively, you could start from IC31 pin 6 and test continuity to IC26, CN10, IC33, IC28, IC34. When you get to D04-D07, it will be a different set of chips (IC30, IC34, CN10, IC29, IC35).
 
Don Backshall
 


Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2015 12:13 PM
Subject: Re: [PolySix] some defects after battery leak
 
 
Thanks for the reply. I repaired traces that were broken and I checked if there was continuity between traces that should not be connected to each other. I did this only for IC 31 maybe I will take a wider aerea to check on continuity. The weird thing is that most things work as they should and then when you turn one knob several parameters are changed and not only the one you turn. I put it in manual mode so all knobs function as they are set and then I can get some rather good sound but for example when I then turn the resonance of the VCF a bit then other parameters seem to have changed....any other info? I replaced the IC31 and put it on a socket. Could it be that another IC is defective when I have this strange behavior or do you think this is mostly a result of the corrosion?

Thanks again for the reply
 

At 14-mei-2015 17:13:41, 'Chromatest J. Pantsmaker' chromatest@azburners.org [PolySix]PolySix@yahoogroups.com'> wrote:



 






There are two things (well, more than that actually) that the corrosion will do that we need to pay attention to.
 
First is the broken trace, or lack of continuity. You've checked this with your meter.

Second is the shorted trace, or too much continuity. By this I mean that a trace can have continuity to a trace next to it. That would cause the signals to affect each other. When you check continuity on the traces, it's important to not only check 1-1, 2-2, 3-3 (and so on) but also to check 1-2, 1-3, 2-3 (and so on) You want all of the 1-1, 2-2, 3-3 traces to have continuity, and you *DON'T* want the 1-2, 1-3, 2-3 traces to have continuity unless they are actually connected via the schematic.

 












Re: [PolySix] some defects after battery leak

2015-05-15 by Bob Grieb

The MCU converts controls in a round-robin sequence to determine
their position.  If the signals that select which control is being measured
are messed up, the MCU could be measuring the wrong control, which could
cause changing filter cut to affect resonance, for instance.

I would make sure the digital signals that control the muxes on the front panel
boards show low resistance all the way from the source chip on the KLM367
to their destination.  Better yet would be to look at them at the destination
with a scope, but a resistance check should also be OK.

You can test front panel scanning separately from CPU+DAC controlling the
parameters.   Use a computer to load patches into the synth with the cassette
interface.   Try the patches and see if they sound reasonable.   If so, then the
DAC is working and the CPU can control the parameters properly.

If all of that checks out, then the problem would be with the front panel
control muxing.   The DAC must be OK.

Bob


 


Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 6:35 AM
Subject: Re: [PolySix] some defects after battery leak
 
 
I tested all sugested data lines and they all are okay. One remark : datalines D04-D07 have to be tested to IC30, IC24, IC33, IC29, IC35) and not IC34; there is a faulty diagram of KLM367 on the internet .
The problem still persists. I doublecheked the powersupply and all voltages are okay. So does anyone here have another suggestion? I think it's mainly the VCF that causes all the problems. turning cut off, resonance or KBD track changes the sound from good into a growling sound. Also the ensemle gives growling sounds when turning phase or ensemle too low or too high.
 
 
regards and thanks in advance
From: "backshall1@bellsouth.net [PolySix]" <PolySix@yahoogroups.com>
To: PolySix@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2015 6:38 PM
Subject: Re: [PolySix] some defects after battery leak
 
 
Most of the damage is usually on the eight data lines (D00-D07) and that includes IC30 as well as IC31. The best way to test these is to use the ohm meter to test continuity from one starting point to all the other places these lines are connected. From a suggestion from Andy Jury a long time ago, I usually test from connector CN10 to all the other chips. This can be a bit tedious. D00 is pin 4 on CN10, and needs to be tested to IC31, IC26, IC33, IC28, IC34, then do the same set of tests for the other seven data lines on CN10. Alternatively, you could start from IC31 pin 6 and test continuity to IC26, CN10, IC33, IC28, IC34. When you get to D04-D07, it will be a different set of chips (IC30, IC34, CN10, IC29, IC35).
 
Don Backshall
 


Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2015 12:13 PM
Subject: Re: [PolySix] some defects after battery leak
 
 
Thanks for the reply. I repaired traces that were broken and I checked if there was continuity between traces that should not be connected to each other. I did this only for IC 31 maybe I will take a wider aerea to check on continuity. The weird thing is that most things work as they should and then when you turn one knob several parameters are changed and not only the one you turn. I put it in manual mode so all knobs function as they are set and then I can get some rather good sound but for example when I then turn the resonance of the VCF a bit then other parameters seem to have changed....any other info? I replaced the IC31 and put it on a socket. Could it be that another IC is defective when I have this strange behavior or do you think this is mostly a result of the corrosion?

Thanks again for the reply
 

At 14-mei-2015 17:13:41, 'Chromatest J. Pantsmaker' chromatest@azburners.org [PolySix]PolySix@yahoogroups.com'> wrote:



 






There are two things (well, more than that actually) that the corrosion will do that we need to pay attention to.
 
First is the broken trace, or lack of continuity. You've checked this with your meter.

Second is the shorted trace, or too much continuity. By this I mean that a trace can have continuity to a trace next to it. That would cause the signals to affect each other. When you check continuity on the traces, it's important to not only check 1-1, 2-2, 3-3 (and so on) but also to check 1-2, 1-3, 2-3 (and so on) You want all of the 1-1, 2-2, 3-3 traces to have continuity, and you *DON'T* want the 1-2, 1-3, 2-3 traces to have continuity unless they are actually connected via the schematic.

 














Re: [PolySix] some defects after battery leak

2015-05-15 by Johan De Vroede

The only fault is the growling sound and the VCF that acts as an EG. All leds are functioning as they should. When I switch on the PS6 bank A en 1 are lid and then I put it in manual mode so the light from 1 goes out . The
corresponding lights for buttons A to D and numbers1 to 8 work when selected. When I put the VCA in EG mode and turn sustain to 0 there is no sound, thats normal, but when I then turn the resonance knob above 3 the sound comes up smoothly and increases in level ( it's difficult to explain, you should see it ) Resonance doesn't work at all as it should : it varies the sound but there is no " high resonance " sound when turning it high ( and turning cut off towards zero ) the only thing that you hear is the sound becoming growling. Same with turning cut off, eg intensity, kbd track beneath 3 or above 7 and also when increasing the intensity for phaser and ensemble.... Very strange . All other things work : tune, bend, VCO ,MG , EG and VCA , arpeggio and key assign .




Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

At 15-mei-2015 14:08:11, backshall1@bellsouth.net [PolySix]<'PolySix@yahoogroups.com'> wrote:














You are correct about IC24 being marked incorrectly on the schematic as
IC34. It shows two chips marked IC34, but the one beside IC30 should be IC24. I
have that written on my paper copy of the schematics. Here is the list I have of
schematic errors for the KLM-367.


1) On IC30 and IC31, pin 5 in connected to +5v, not pin 4.


2) IC30 ground pin is pin 7, not pin 1.


3) The 14042 chip below IC26 is IC24, not IC34.


4) The capacitor connected between R28 and pin 6 of IC3 is C5, not
C4.


5) The diode on pin 9 of IC29 is D13, not D12.


6) The diode on pin 15 of IC29 is D14, not D13.


7) The signal from pin 7 of IC14 is MG Level, not MG Speed.


8) Capacitor C33 is connected to the collector of Q5, not the other side of
R98.


9) The LM339 quad comparator is IC2, not IC3.


Are there any other symptoms besides the growling sound, maybe lights
turning on when they shouldn’t on the A-D or 0-9 patch buttons? Any other
buttons not working properly? It sounds like it could be a D/A converter
calibration problem.


Don B.






Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 6:35 AM


Subject: Re: [PolySix] some defects after battery
leak






I tested all sugested data lines and they all
are okay. One remark : datalines D04-D07 have to be tested to IC30, IC24, IC33, IC29, IC35) and not IC34; there is a faulty diagram of
KLM367 on the internet .

The problem
still persists. I doublecheked the powersupply and all voltages are okay. So
does anyone here have another suggestion? I think it's mainly the VCF that
causes all the problems. turning cut off, resonance or KBD track changes the
sound from good into a growling sound. Also the ensemle gives growling sounds
when turning phase or ensemle too low or too high.



regards and thanks in
advance





From: "backshall1@bellsouth.net [PolySix]"
<PolySix@yahoogroups.com>
To: PolySix@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2015 6:38 PM
Subject: Re: [PolySix] some defects after
battery leak











Most of the damage is usually on the
eight data lines (D00-D07) and that includes IC30 as well as IC31. The best way
to test these is to use the ohm meter to test continuity from one starting point
to all the other places these lines are connected. From a suggestion from Andy
Jury a long time ago, I usually test from connector CN10 to all the other chips.
This can be a bit tedious. D00 is pin 4 on CN10, and needs to be tested to IC31,
IC26, IC33, IC28, IC34, then do the same set of tests for the other seven data
lines on CN10. Alternatively, you could start from IC31 pin 6 and test
continuity to IC26, CN10, IC33, IC28, IC34. When you get to D04-D07, it will be
a different set of chips (IC30, IC34, CN10, IC29, IC35).


Don Backshall










Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2015
12:13 PM


Subject: Re: [PolySix] some defects after
battery leak








Thanks
for the reply. I repaired traces that were broken and I checked if there
was continuity between traces that should not be connected to each other.
I did this only for IC 31 maybe I will take a wider aerea to check on
continuity. The weird thing is that most things work as they should and
then when you turn one knob several parameters are changed and not only
the one you turn. I put it in manual mode so all knobs function as they
are set and then I can get some rather good sound but for example when I
then turn the resonance of the VCF a bit then other parameters seem to
have changed....any other info? I replaced the IC31 and put it on a
socket. Could it be that another IC is defective when I have this strange
behavior or do you think this is mostly a result of the corrosion?

Thanks again for the reply




At 14-mei-2015 17:13:41,
'Chromatest J. Pantsmaker' chromatest@azburners.org
[PolySix]PolySix@yahoogroups.com'>
wrote:















There are two things (well, more
than that actually) that the corrosion will do that we need to pay
attention to.


First is the broken trace, or lack
of continuity. You've checked this with your meter.

Second is the shorted trace, or too much continuity. By this
I mean that a trace can have continuity to a trace next to it. That
would cause the signals to affect each other. When you check continuity
on the traces, it's important to not only check 1-1, 2-2, 3-3 (and so
on) but also to check 1-2, 1-3, 2-3 (and so on) You want all of the 1-1,
2-2, 3-3 traces to have continuity, and you *DON'T* want the 1-2, 1-3,
2-3 traces to have continuity unless they are actually connected via the
schematic.






























Re: [PolySix] some defects after battery leak

2015-05-15 by <backshall1@bellsouth.net>

I like Bob’s suggestion. If you load the factory presets and try a bunch of them without turning any knobs and they sound correct, then the D/A converter is probably okay. I don’t know how familiar you are with the factory sounds, but if they sound reasonable and are not “growling” then they are probably okay. In this case, it could be a MUX problem. There are four 4051 multiplexer/demultiplexer chips (14051 is the Toshiba number). There are two used as multiplexers on the panel boards and two used as demultiplexers on the KLM-367 board.
 
-IC1 on the KLM-370 is the multiplexer for Effects speed, Filter and Envelope Generator settings, and Keyboard tracking.
-IC2 on the KLM-369 is the multiplexer for PWM and EG (LFO) controls, but you haven’t mentioned any problems with those.
-IC18 on the KLM-367 is the Demultiplexer for Effects, Filter, EG, Kbd Tracking.
-IC19 on the KLM-367 is the Demultiplexer for PWM and EG.
 
There are a bunch of control lines to check here:
-P20, P21, P22 on processor IC22 pins 21, 22, 23 going to each of the four chips pin 11, 10, 9.
-Two Inhibit signals from IC23 pins 1 and 3. The INH1 (IC23 pin 1) is connected to IC 1 on KLM-370 pin 6 and INH2 goes from IC23 pin 3 up to panel board KLM-369 IC2 pin 6.
- Two Inhibit signals from IC23 pins 4 and 10, to IC18 pin 6 and IC19 pin 6 respectively.
 
If you have a dual trace oscilloscope, you should see that the pairs of inhibit signals are opposites of each other. When INH1 is high, INH2 should be low, and vice-versa.
 
Don B.
 
Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 9:06 AM
Subject: Re: [PolySix] some defects after battery leak
 
 

The only fault is the growling sound and the VCF that acts as an EG. All leds are functioning as they should. When I switch on the PS6 bank A en 1 are lid and then I put it in manual mode so the light from 1 goes out . The
corresponding lights for buttons A to D and numbers1 to 8 work when selected. When I put the VCA in EG mode and turn sustain to 0 there is no sound, thats normal, but when I then turn the resonance knob above 3 the sound comes up smoothly and increases in level ( it's difficult to explain, you should see it ) Resonance doesn't work at all as it should : it varies the sound but there is no " high resonance " sound when turning it high ( and turning cut off towards zero ) the only thing that you hear is the sound becoming growling. Same with turning cut off, eg intensity, kbd track beneath 3 or above 7 and also when increasing the intensity for phaser and ensemble.... Very strange . All other things work : tune, bend, VCO ,MG , EG and VCA , arpeggio and key assign .




Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

At 15-mei-2015 14:08:11, backshall1@bellsouth.net [PolySix]PolySix@yahoogroups.com'> wrote:



 








 
 
You are correct about IC24 being marked incorrectly on the schematic as
IC34. It shows two chips marked IC34, but the one beside IC30 should be IC24. I
have that written on my paper copy of the schematics. Here is the list I have of
schematic errors for the KLM-367.
 
 
1) On IC30 and IC31, pin 5 in connected to +5v, not pin 4.
 
 
2) IC30 ground pin is pin 7, not pin 1.
 
 
3) The 14042 chip below IC26 is IC24, not IC34.
 
 
4) The capacitor connected between R28 and pin 6 of IC3 is C5, not
C4.
 
 
5) The diode on pin 9 of IC29 is D13, not D12.
 
 
6) The diode on pin 15 of IC29 is D14, not D13.
 
 
7) The signal from pin 7 of IC14 is MG Level, not MG Speed.
 
 
8) Capacitor C33 is connected to the collector of Q5, not the other side of
R98.
 
 
9) The LM339 quad comparator is IC2, not IC3.
 
 
Are there any other symptoms besides the growling sound, maybe lights
turning on when they shouldn’t on the A-D or 0-9 patch buttons? Any other
buttons not working properly? It sounds like it could be a D/A converter
calibration problem.
 
 
Don B.
 
 
 
 
 
 
Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 6:35 AM
 
 
Subject: Re: [PolySix] some defects after battery
leak
 
 


 

 
I tested all sugested data lines and they all
are okay. One remark : datalines D04-D07 have to be tested to IC30, IC24, IC33, IC29, IC35) and not IC34; there is a faulty diagram of
KLM367 on the internet .
 
The problem
still persists. I doublecheked the powersupply and all voltages are okay. So
does anyone here have another suggestion? I think it's mainly the VCF that
causes all the problems. turning cut off, resonance or KBD track changes the
sound from good into a growling sound. Also the ensemle gives growling sounds
when turning phase or ensemle too low or too high.
 
 
 
regards and thanks in
advance
 
 
 


From: "backshall1@bellsouth.net [PolySix]"
PolySix@yahoogroups.com>
To: PolySix@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2015 6:38 PM
Subject: Re: [PolySix] some defects after
battery leak
 
 
 
 

 
 
 
 
 
 
Most of the damage is usually on the
eight data lines (D00-D07) and that includes IC30 as well as IC31. The best way
to test these is to use the ohm meter to test continuity from one starting point
to all the other places these lines are connected. From a suggestion from Andy
Jury a long time ago, I usually test from connector CN10 to all the other chips.
This can be a bit tedious. D00 is pin 4 on CN10, and needs to be tested to IC31,
IC26, IC33, IC28, IC34, then do the same set of tests for the other seven data
lines on CN10. Alternatively, you could start from IC31 pin 6 and test
continuity to IC26, CN10, IC33, IC28, IC34. When you get to D04-D07, it will be
a different set of chips (IC30, IC34, CN10, IC29, IC35).
 
 
Don Backshall
 
 
 
 


 
 
 
 
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2015
12:13 PM
 
 
Subject: Re: [PolySix] some defects after
battery leak
 
 
 
 

 


Thanks
for the reply. I repaired traces that were broken and I checked if there
was continuity between traces that should not be connected to each other.
I did this only for IC 31 maybe I will take a wider aerea to check on
continuity. The weird thing is that most things work as they should and
then when you turn one knob several parameters are changed and not only
the one you turn. I put it in manual mode so all knobs function as they
are set and then I can get some rather good sound but for example when I
then turn the resonance of the VCF a bit then other parameters seem to
have changed....any other info? I replaced the IC31 and put it on a
socket. Could it be that another IC is defective when I have this strange
behavior or do you think this is mostly a result of the corrosion?

Thanks again for the reply
 
 


At 14-mei-2015 17:13:41,
'Chromatest J. Pantsmaker' chromatest@azburners.org
[PolySix]PolySix@yahoogroups.com'>
wrote:




 
 








 
There are two things (well, more
than that actually) that the corrosion will do that we need to pay
attention to.
 
 
First is the broken trace, or lack
of continuity. You've checked this with your meter.

Second is the shorted trace, or too much continuity. By this
I mean that a trace can have continuity to a trace next to it. That
would cause the signals to affect each other. When you check continuity
on the traces, it's important to not only check 1-1, 2-2, 3-3 (and so
on) but also to check 1-2, 1-3, 2-3 (and so on) You want all of the 1-1,
2-2, 3-3 traces to have continuity, and you *DON'T* want the 1-2, 1-3,
2-3 traces to have continuity unless they are actually connected via the
schematic.

 













 
 
 












Re: [PolySix] some defects after battery leak

2015-05-15 by Johan De Vroede

I also think it's a good idea to load the factory patches. So I can exclude the controls... I found my original Korg data cassette and I tried to load the data but it didn't work. ( I heard sound in my headphone when playing the tape ) Then I downloaded the wav file from internet and took my portable but i am not able to load the data. It's not working. I have the procedure how to load the data. I measure 200 mV ac signal ( I don't have an oscilloscope ) on the data connector but there is no data loaded ( the found and loading leds don't light when I play the wav file )
Damned !
I am slowly loosing my optimism.





Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

At 15-mei-2015 15:58:02, backshall1@bellsouth.net [PolySix]<'PolySix@yahoogroups.com'> wrote:














I like Bob’s suggestion. If you load the factory presets and try a bunch of
them without turning any knobs and they sound correct, then the D/A converter is
probably okay. I don’t know how familiar you are with the factory sounds, but if
they sound reasonable and are not “growling” then they are probably okay. In
this case, it could be a MUX problem. There are four 4051
multiplexer/demultiplexer chips (14051 is the Toshiba number). There are two
used as multiplexers on the panel boards and two used as demultiplexers on the
KLM-367 board.


-IC1 on the KLM-370 is the multiplexer for Effects speed, Filter and
Envelope Generator settings, and Keyboard tracking.

-IC2 on the KLM-369 is the multiplexer for PWM and EG (LFO) controls, but
you haven’t mentioned any problems with those.

-IC18 on the KLM-367 is the Demultiplexer for Effects, Filter, EG, Kbd
Tracking.

-IC19 on the KLM-367 is the Demultiplexer for PWM and EG.


There are a bunch of control lines to check here:

-P20, P21, P22 on processor IC22 pins 21, 22, 23 going to each of the four
chips pin 11, 10, 9.

-Two Inhibit signals from IC23 pins 1 and 3. The INH1 (IC23 pin 1) is
connected to IC 1 on KLM-370 pin 6 and INH2 goes from IC23 pin 3 up to panel
board KLM-369 IC2 pin 6.

- Two Inhibit signals from IC23 pins 4 and 10, to IC18 pin 6 and IC19 pin 6
respectively.


If you have a dual trace oscilloscope, you should see that the pairs of
inhibit signals are opposites of each other. When INH1 is high, INH2 should be
low, and vice-versa.


Don B.






Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 9:06 AM


Subject: Re: [PolySix] some defects after battery
leak






The
only fault is the growling sound and the VCF that acts as an EG. All leds
are functioning as they should. When I switch on the PS6 bank A en 1 are
lid and then I put it in manual mode so the light from 1 goes out .
The
corresponding lights for buttons A to D and numbers1 to 8 work when
selected. When I put the VCA in EG mode and turn sustain to 0 there is no
sound, thats normal, but when I then turn the resonance knob above 3 the
sound comes up smoothly and increases in level ( it's difficult to
explain, you should see it ) Resonance doesn't work at all as it should :
it varies the sound but there is no " high resonance " sound when turning
it high ( and turning cut off towards zero ) the only thing that you hear
is the sound becoming growling. Same with turning cut off, eg intensity,
kbd track beneath 3 or above 7 and also when increasing the intensity for
phaser and ensemble.... Very strange . All other things work : tune, bend,
VCO ,MG , EG and VCA , arpeggio and key assign .




Sent from Yahoo Mail for
iPad



At 15-mei-2015 14:08:11,
backshall1@bellsouth.net [PolySix]PolySix@yahoogroups.com'>
wrote:





















You are correct about IC24 being marked incorrectly on the
schematic as
IC34. It shows two chips marked IC34, but the one
beside IC30 should be IC24. I
have that written on my paper copy of
the schematics. Here is the list I have of
schematic errors for the
KLM-367.




1) On IC30 and IC31, pin 5 in connected to +5v, not pin 4.




2) IC30 ground pin is pin 7, not pin 1.




3) The 14042 chip below IC26 is IC24, not IC34.




4) The capacitor connected between R28 and pin 6 of IC3 is C5, not

C4.




5) The diode on pin 9 of IC29 is D13, not D12.




6) The diode on pin 15 of IC29 is D14, not D13.




7) The signal from pin 7 of IC14 is MG Level, not MG Speed.




8) Capacitor C33 is connected to the collector of Q5, not the other
side of
R98.




9) The LM339 quad comparator is IC2, not IC3.




Are there any other symptoms besides the growling sound, maybe
lights
turning on when they shouldn’t on the A-D or 0-9 patch
buttons? Any other
buttons not working properly? It sounds like it
could be a D/A converter
calibration problem.




Don B.













Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 6:35 AM




Subject: Re: [PolySix] some defects after battery

leak













I tested all sugested data lines and
they all
are okay. One remark : datalines D04-D07 have to be tested
to IC30, IC24, IC33, IC29,
IC35) and not IC34; there is a faulty diagram of
KLM367 on the
internet .


The
problem
still persists. I doublecheked the powersupply and all
voltages are okay. So
does anyone here have another suggestion? I
think it's mainly the VCF that
causes all the problems. turning cut
off, resonance or KBD track changes the
sound from good into a
growling sound. Also the ensemle gives growling sounds
when turning
phase or ensemle too low or too high.






regards and thanks in

advance










From: "backshall1@bellsouth.net [PolySix]"
PolySix@yahoogroups.com>
To: PolySix@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2015 6:38
PM
Subject: Re: [PolySix] some defects
after
battery leak






















Most of the damage is usually on
the
eight data lines (D00-D07) and that includes IC30 as well as
IC31. The best way
to test these is to use the ohm meter to test
continuity from one starting point
to all the other places these
lines are connected. From a suggestion from Andy
Jury a long time
ago, I usually test from connector CN10 to all the other chips.
This
can be a bit tedious. D00 is pin 4 on CN10, and needs to be tested to
IC31,
IC26, IC33, IC28, IC34, then do the same set of tests for the
other seven data
lines on CN10. Alternatively, you could start from
IC31 pin 6 and test
continuity to IC26, CN10, IC33, IC28, IC34. When
you get to D04-D07, it will be
a different set of chips (IC30, IC34,
CN10, IC29, IC35).




Don Backshall


















Sent: Thursday, May 14,
2015
12:13 PM




Subject: Re: [PolySix] some
defects after
battery leak
















Thanks

for the reply. I repaired traces that were broken and I
checked if there
was continuity between traces that should not
be connected to each other.
I did this only for IC 31 maybe I
will take a wider aerea to check on
continuity. The weird
thing is that most things work as they should and
then when
you turn one knob several parameters are changed and not only

the one you turn. I put it in manual mode so all knobs
function as they
are set and then I can get some rather good
sound but for example when I
then turn the resonance of the
VCF a bit then other parameters seem to
have changed....any
other info? I replaced the IC31 and put it on a
socket. Could
it be that another IC is defective when I have this strange

behavior or do you think this is mostly a result of the
corrosion?

Thanks again for the reply









At 14-mei-2015
17:13:41,
'Chromatest J. Pantsmaker' chromatest@azburners.org

[PolySix]PolySix@yahoogroups.com'>

wrote:





















There are two things (well,
more
than that actually) that the corrosion will do that we
need to pay
attention to.




First is the broken trace,
or lack
of continuity. You've checked this with your meter.


Second is the shorted trace, or
too much continuity. By this
I mean that a trace can have
continuity to a trace next to it. That
would cause the
signals to affect each other. When you check continuity
on
the traces, it's important to not only check 1-1, 2-2, 3-3 (and
so
on) but also to check 1-2, 1-3, 2-3 (and so on) You want
all of the 1-1,
2-2, 3-3 traces to have continuity, and you
*DON'T* want the 1-2, 1-3,
2-3 traces to have continuity
unless they are actually connected via the
schematic.



















































Re: [PolySix] some defects after battery leak

2015-05-15 by <backshall1@bellsouth.net>

Tape Enable and Write Enable switches are both on? I don’t know what the signal level should be.
 
Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 1:14 PM
Subject: Re: [PolySix] some defects after battery leak
 
 

I also think it's a good idea to load the factory patches. So I can exclude the controls... I found my original Korg data cassette and I tried to load the data but it didn't work. ( I heard sound in my headphone when playing the tape ) Then I downloaded the wav file from internet and took my portable but i am not able to load the data. It's not working. I have the procedure how to load the data. I measure 200 mV ac signal ( I don't have an oscilloscope ) on the data connector but there is no data loaded ( the found and loading leds don't light when I play the wav file )
Damned !
I am slowly loosing my optimism.





Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

At 15-mei-2015 15:58:02, backshall1@bellsouth.net [PolySix]PolySix@yahoogroups.com'> wrote:



 








 
 
I like Bob’s suggestion. If you load the factory presets and try a bunch of
them without turning any knobs and they sound correct, then the D/A converter is
probably okay. I don’t know how familiar you are with the factory sounds, but if
they sound reasonable and are not “growling” then they are probably okay. In
this case, it could be a MUX problem. There are four 4051
multiplexer/demultiplexer chips (14051 is the Toshiba number). There are two
used as multiplexers on the panel boards and two used as demultiplexers on the
KLM-367 board.
 
 
-IC1 on the KLM-370 is the multiplexer for Effects speed, Filter and
Envelope Generator settings, and Keyboard tracking.
 
-IC2 on the KLM-369 is the multiplexer for PWM and EG (LFO) controls, but
you haven’t mentioned any problems with those.
 
-IC18 on the KLM-367 is the Demultiplexer for Effects, Filter, EG, Kbd
Tracking.
 
-IC19 on the KLM-367 is the Demultiplexer for PWM and EG.
 
 
There are a bunch of control lines to check here:
 
-P20, P21, P22 on processor IC22 pins 21, 22, 23 going to each of the four
chips pin 11, 10, 9.
 
-Two Inhibit signals from IC23 pins 1 and 3. The INH1 (IC23 pin 1) is
connected to IC 1 on KLM-370 pin 6 and INH2 goes from IC23 pin 3 up to panel
board KLM-369 IC2 pin 6.
 
- Two Inhibit signals from IC23 pins 4 and 10, to IC18 pin 6 and IC19 pin 6
respectively.
 
 
If you have a dual trace oscilloscope, you should see that the pairs of
inhibit signals are opposites of each other. When INH1 is high, INH2 should be
low, and vice-versa.
 
 
Don B.
 
 
 
 
 
 
Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 9:06 AM
 
 
Subject: Re: [PolySix] some defects after battery
leak
 
 




The
only fault is the growling sound and the VCF that acts as an EG. All leds
are functioning as they should. When I switch on the PS6 bank A en 1 are
lid and then I put it in manual mode so the light from 1 goes out .
The
corresponding lights for buttons A to D and numbers1 to 8 work when
selected. When I put the VCA in EG mode and turn sustain to 0 there is no
sound, thats normal, but when I then turn the resonance knob above 3 the
sound comes up smoothly and increases in level ( it's difficult to
explain, you should see it ) Resonance doesn't work at all as it should :
it varies the sound but there is no " high resonance " sound when turning
it high ( and turning cut off towards zero ) the only thing that you hear
is the sound becoming growling. Same with turning cut off, eg intensity,
kbd track beneath 3 or above 7 and also when increasing the intensity for
phaser and ensemble.... Very strange . All other things work : tune, bend,
VCO ,MG , EG and VCA , arpeggio and key assign .




Sent from Yahoo Mail for
iPad
 


At 15-mei-2015 14:08:11,
backshall1@bellsouth.net [PolySix]PolySix@yahoogroups.com'>
wrote:




 
 











 
 
 
 
You are correct about IC24 being marked incorrectly on the
schematic as
IC34. It shows two chips marked IC34, but the one
beside IC30 should be IC24. I
have that written on my paper copy of
the schematics. Here is the list I have of
schematic errors for the
KLM-367.
 
 
 
 
1) On IC30 and IC31, pin 5 in connected to +5v, not pin 4.
 
 
 
 
2) IC30 ground pin is pin 7, not pin 1.
 
 
 
 
3) The 14042 chip below IC26 is IC24, not IC34.
 
 
 
 
4) The capacitor connected between R28 and pin 6 of IC3 is C5, not

C4.
 
 
 
 
5) The diode on pin 9 of IC29 is D13, not D12.
 
 
 
 
6) The diode on pin 15 of IC29 is D14, not D13.
 
 
 
 
7) The signal from pin 7 of IC14 is MG Level, not MG Speed.
 
 
 
 
8) Capacitor C33 is connected to the collector of Q5, not the other
side of
R98.
 
 
 
 
9) The LM339 quad comparator is IC2, not IC3.
 
 
 
 
Are there any other symptoms besides the growling sound, maybe
lights
turning on when they shouldn’t on the A-D or 0-9 patch
buttons? Any other
buttons not working properly? It sounds like it
could be a D/A converter
calibration problem.
 
 
 
 
Don B.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 6:35 AM
 
 
 
 
Subject: Re: [PolySix] some defects after battery

leak
 
 
 
 
 
 





 
 
I tested all sugested data lines and
they all
are okay. One remark : datalines D04-D07 have to be tested
to IC30, IC24, IC33, IC29,
IC35) and not IC34; there is a faulty diagram of
KLM367 on the
internet .
 
 
The
problem
still persists. I doublecheked the powersupply and all
voltages are okay. So
does anyone here have another suggestion? I
think it's mainly the VCF that
causes all the problems. turning cut
off, resonance or KBD track changes the
sound from good into a
growling sound. Also the ensemle gives growling sounds
when turning
phase or ensemle too low or too high.
 
 
 
 
 
 
regards and thanks in

advance
 
 
 
 
 
 




From: "backshall1@bellsouth.net [PolySix]"
PolySix@yahoogroups.com>
To: PolySix@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2015 6:38
PM
Subject: Re: [PolySix] some defects
after
battery leak
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Most of the damage is usually on
the
eight data lines (D00-D07) and that includes IC30 as well as
IC31. The best way
to test these is to use the ohm meter to test
continuity from one starting point
to all the other places these
lines are connected. From a suggestion from Andy
Jury a long time
ago, I usually test from connector CN10 to all the other chips.
This
can be a bit tedious. D00 is pin 4 on CN10, and needs to be tested to
IC31,
IC26, IC33, IC28, IC34, then do the same set of tests for the
other seven data
lines on CN10. Alternatively, you could start from
IC31 pin 6 and test
continuity to IC26, CN10, IC33, IC28, IC34. When
you get to D04-D07, it will be
a different set of chips (IC30, IC34,
CN10, IC29, IC35).
 
 
 
 
Don Backshall
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Sent: Thursday, May 14,
2015
12:13 PM
 
 
 
 
Subject: Re: [PolySix] some
defects after
battery leak
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


 
 




Thanks

for the reply. I repaired traces that were broken and I
checked if there
was continuity between traces that should not
be connected to each other.
I did this only for IC 31 maybe I
will take a wider aerea to check on
continuity. The weird
thing is that most things work as they should and
then when
you turn one knob several parameters are changed and not only

the one you turn. I put it in manual mode so all knobs
function as they
are set and then I can get some rather good
sound but for example when I
then turn the resonance of the
VCF a bit then other parameters seem to
have changed....any
other info? I replaced the IC31 and put it on a
socket. Could
it be that another IC is defective when I have this strange

behavior or do you think this is mostly a result of the
corrosion?

Thanks again for the reply


 
 
 
 



At 14-mei-2015
17:13:41,
'Chromatest J. Pantsmaker' chromatest@azburners.org

[PolySix]PolySix@yahoogroups.com'>

wrote:





 
 
 
 










 
 
There are two things (well,
more
than that actually) that the corrosion will do that we
need to pay
attention to.
 
 
 
 
First is the broken trace,
or lack
of continuity. You've checked this with your meter.


Second is the shorted trace, or
too much continuity. By this
I mean that a trace can have
continuity to a trace next to it. That
would cause the
signals to affect each other. When you check continuity
on
the traces, it's important to not only check 1-1, 2-2, 3-3 (and
so
on) but also to check 1-2, 1-3, 2-3 (and so on) You want
all of the 1-1,
2-2, 3-3 traces to have continuity, and you
*DON'T* want the 1-2, 1-3,
2-3 traces to have continuity
unless they are actually connected via the
schematic.

 
 
















 
 
 
 
 
 










 




 











Re: [PolySix] some defects after battery leak

2015-05-16 by Johan De Vroede

Yes, both switches are on and the led " tape enable " is lid. Then I push button " from tape " and the led lights up. I load the data but the " found " and " loading " led don't come up. I tried severall output volumes. I also tried the " verify " procedure but the " error " led doesn't come up when I increase the output volume. I will ceck the KLM 367 again to see if all traces are okay....

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

At 15-mei-2015 22:32:19, backshall1@bellsouth.net [PolySix]<'PolySix@yahoogroups.com'> wrote:














Tape Enable and Write Enable switches are both on? I don’t know what the
signal level should be.






Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 1:14 PM


Subject: Re: [PolySix] some defects after battery
leak






I
also think it's a good idea to load the factory patches. So I can exclude
the controls... I found my original Korg data cassette and I tried to load
the data but it didn't work. ( I heard sound in my headphone when playing
the tape ) Then I downloaded the wav file from internet and took my
portable but i am not able to load the data. It's not working. I have the
procedure how to load the data. I measure 200 mV ac signal ( I don't have
an oscilloscope ) on the data connector but there is no data loaded ( the
found and loading leds don't light when I play the wav file )
Damned !

I am slowly loosing my optimism.





Sent from Yahoo Mail for
iPad



At 15-mei-2015 15:58:02,
backshall1@bellsouth.net [PolySix]PolySix@yahoogroups.com'>
wrote:





















I like Bob’s suggestion. If you load the factory presets and try a
bunch of
them without turning any knobs and they sound correct, then
the D/A converter is
probably okay. I don’t know how familiar you
are with the factory sounds, but if
they sound reasonable and are
not “growling” then they are probably okay. In
this case, it could
be a MUX problem. There are four 4051
multiplexer/demultiplexer
chips (14051 is the Toshiba number). There are two
used as
multiplexers on the panel boards and two used as demultiplexers on the

KLM-367 board.




-IC1 on the KLM-370 is the multiplexer for Effects speed, Filter
and
Envelope Generator settings, and Keyboard tracking.


-IC2 on the KLM-369 is the multiplexer for PWM and EG (LFO)
controls, but
you haven’t mentioned any problems with those.


-IC18 on the KLM-367 is the Demultiplexer for Effects, Filter, EG,
Kbd
Tracking.


-IC19 on the KLM-367 is the Demultiplexer for PWM and EG.




There are a bunch of control lines to check here:


-P20, P21, P22 on processor IC22 pins 21, 22, 23 going to each of
the four
chips pin 11, 10, 9.


-Two Inhibit signals from IC23 pins 1 and 3. The INH1 (IC23 pin 1)
is
connected to IC 1 on KLM-370 pin 6 and INH2 goes from IC23 pin 3
up to panel
board KLM-369 IC2 pin 6.


- Two Inhibit signals from IC23 pins 4 and 10, to IC18 pin 6 and
IC19 pin 6
respectively.




If you have a dual trace oscilloscope, you should see that the
pairs of
inhibit signals are opposites of each other. When INH1 is
high, INH2 should be
low, and vice-versa.




Don B.













Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 9:06 AM




Subject: Re: [PolySix] some defects after battery

leak














The

only fault is the growling sound and the VCF that acts as an
EG. All leds
are functioning as they should. When I switch on
the PS6 bank A en 1 are
lid and then I put it in manual mode
so the light from 1 goes out .
The
corresponding
lights for buttons A to D and numbers1 to 8 work when

selected. When I put the VCA in EG mode and turn sustain to 0
there is no
sound, thats normal, but when I then turn the
resonance knob above 3 the
sound comes up smoothly and
increases in level ( it's difficult to
explain, you should see
it ) Resonance doesn't work at all as it should :
it varies
the sound but there is no " high resonance " sound when turning

it high ( and turning cut off towards zero ) the only thing
that you hear
is the sound becoming growling. Same with
turning cut off, eg intensity,
kbd track beneath 3 or above 7
and also when increasing the intensity for
phaser and
ensemble.... Very strange . All other things work : tune, bend,

VCO ,MG , EG and VCA , arpeggio and key assign .




Sent from Yahoo Mail for

iPad





At 15-mei-2015
14:08:11,
backshall1@bellsouth.net
[PolySix]PolySix@yahoogroups.com'>

wrote:































You are correct about IC24 being marked incorrectly on the

schematic as
IC34. It shows two chips marked
IC34, but the one
beside IC30 should be IC24. I
have that written on my paper copy of
the
schematics. Here is the list I have of
schematic
errors for the
KLM-367.








1) On IC30 and IC31, pin 5 in connected to +5v, not pin
4.








2) IC30 ground pin is pin 7, not pin 1.








3) The 14042 chip below IC26 is IC24, not IC34.








4) The capacitor connected between R28 and pin 6 of IC3 is
C5, not

C4.








5) The diode on pin 9 of IC29 is D13, not D12.








6) The diode on pin 15 of IC29 is D14, not D13.








7) The signal from pin 7 of IC14 is MG Level, not MG
Speed.








8) Capacitor C33 is connected to the collector of Q5, not
the other
side of
R98.








9) The LM339 quad comparator is IC2, not IC3.








Are there any other symptoms besides the growling sound,
maybe
lights
turning on when they shouldn’t
on the A-D or 0-9 patch
buttons? Any other
buttons not working properly? It sounds like it

could be a D/A converter
calibration
problem.








Don B.


























Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 6:35 AM








Subject: Re: [PolySix] some defects after battery


leak























I tested all sugested data
lines and
they all
are okay. One remark :
datalines D04-D07 have to be tested
to IC30, IC24,
IC33, IC29,
IC35) and not IC34; there is a faulty diagram of

KLM367 on the
internet .




The
problem
still persists. I doublecheked the powersupply and
all
voltages are okay. So
does anyone here
have another suggestion? I
think it's mainly the VCF that

causes all the problems. turning cut
off,
resonance or KBD track changes the
sound from
good into a
growling sound. Also the ensemle gives growling
sounds
when turning
phase or ensemle too low
or too high.












regards and
thanks in

advance


















From: "backshall1@bellsouth.net
[PolySix]"
PolySix@yahoogroups.com>
To: PolySix@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, May 14,
2015 6:38
PM
Subject: Re: [PolySix] some
defects
after
battery leak











































Most of the damage is
usually on
the
eight data lines (D00-D07) and
that includes IC30 as well as
IC31. The best way
to test these is to use the ohm meter to test

continuity from one starting point
to all the
other places these
lines are connected. From a suggestion
from Andy
Jury a long time
ago, I usually
test from connector CN10 to all the other chips.
This
can be a bit tedious. D00 is pin 4 on CN10,
and needs to be tested to
IC31,
IC26, IC33,
IC28, IC34, then do the same set of tests for the
other
seven data
lines on CN10. Alternatively, you
could start from
IC31 pin 6 and test
continuity to IC26, CN10, IC33, IC28, IC34. When

you get to D04-D07, it will be
a different
set of chips (IC30, IC34,
CN10, IC29, IC35).








Don Backshall


































Sent: Thursday,
May 14,
2015
12:13 PM








Subject: Re: [PolySix]
some
defects after
battery
leak





























Thanks


for the reply. I repaired traces that
were broken and I
checked if there
was
continuity between traces that should not
be connected
to each other.
I did this only for IC 31
maybe I
will take a wider aerea to check on
continuity. The weird
thing is that most
things work as they should and
then when

you turn one knob several parameters are changed and
not only

the one you turn. I put it in
manual mode so all knobs
function as they
are set and then I can get some rather good

sound but for example when I
then turn
the resonance of the
VCF a bit then other parameters
seem to
have changed....any
other info?
I replaced the IC31 and put it on a
socket.
Could
it be that another IC is defective when I have
this strange

behavior or do you think
this is mostly a result of the
corrosion?

Thanks again for the reply
















At
14-mei-2015
17:13:41,
'Chromatest J.
Pantsmaker' chromatest@azburners.org

[PolySix]PolySix@yahoogroups.com'>

wrote:






























There are two things
(well,
more
than that actually) that
the corrosion will do that we
need to pay
attention to.








First is the broken
trace,
or lack
of continuity. You've
checked this with your meter.


Second is the shorted trace, or
too much
continuity. By this
I mean that a trace
can have
continuity to a trace next to it. That
would cause the
signals to affect each
other. When you check continuity
on

the traces, it's important to not only check 1-1,
2-2, 3-3 (and
so
on) but also to
check 1-2, 1-3, 2-3 (and so on) You want
all of the
1-1,
2-2, 3-3 traces to have continuity,
and you
*DON'T* want the 1-2, 1-3,
2-3 traces to have continuity
unless they
are actually connected via the
schematic.
















































































Re: [PolySix] some defects after battery leak

2015-05-26 by Johan De Vroede

I filmed the defect that occurs on my Polysix ( the VCF changes the EG and the sound becomes growling ) . Can I upload it on the file section in the yahoogroup? 

From: "backshall1@bellsouth.net [PolySix]" <PolySix@yahoogroups.com>
To: PolySix@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2015 6:38 PM
Subject: Re: [PolySix] some defects after battery leak

 
Most of the damage is usually on the eight data lines (D00-D07) and that includes IC30 as well as IC31. The best way to test these is to use the ohm meter to test continuity from one starting point to all the other places these lines are connected. From a suggestion from Andy Jury a long time ago, I usually test from connector CN10 to all the other chips. This can be a bit tedious. D00 is pin 4 on CN10, and needs to be tested to IC31, IC26, IC33, IC28, IC34, then do the same set of tests for the other seven data lines on CN10. Alternatively, you could start from IC31 pin 6 and test continuity to IC26, CN10, IC33, IC28, IC34. When you get to D04-D07, it will be a different set of chips (IC30, IC34, CN10, IC29, IC35).
 
Don Backshall
 


Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2015 12:13 PM
Subject: Re: [PolySix] some defects after battery leak
 
 
Thanks for the reply. I repaired traces that were broken and I checked if there was continuity between traces that should not be connected to each other. I did this only for IC 31 maybe I will take a wider aerea to check on continuity. The weird thing is that most things work as they should and then when you turn one knob several parameters are changed and not only the one you turn. I put it in manual mode so all knobs function as they are set and then I can get some rather good sound but for example when I then turn the resonance of the VCF a bit then other parameters seem to have changed....any other info? I replaced the IC31 and put it on a socket. Could it be that another IC is defective when I have this strange behavior or do you think this is mostly a result of the corrosion?

Thanks again for the reply
 

At 14-mei-2015 17:13:41, 'Chromatest J. Pantsmaker' chromatest@azburners.org [PolySix]PolySix@yahoogroups.com'> wrote:



 






There are two things (well, more than that actually) that the corrosion will do that we need to pay attention to.
 
First is the broken trace, or lack of continuity. You've checked this with your meter.

Second is the shorted trace, or too much continuity. By this I mean that a trace can have continuity to a trace next to it. That would cause the signals to affect each other. When you check continuity on the traces, it's important to not only check 1-1, 2-2, 3-3 (and so on) but also to check 1-2, 1-3, 2-3 (and so on) You want all of the 1-1, 2-2, 3-3 traces to have continuity, and you *DON'T* want the 1-2, 1-3, 2-3 traces to have continuity unless they are actually connected via the schematic.

 












Re: [PolySix] some defects after battery leak

2015-05-26 by Florian Anwander

On 26.05.15 21:00 , Johan De Vroede johandevroede@yahoo.com [PolySix] wrote:
 
I filmed the defect that occurs on my Polysix ( the VCF changes the EG and the sound becomes growling ) . Can I upload it on the file section in the yahoogroup?
Put it to youtube or vimeo or similar.

Re: [PolySix] some defects after battery leak

2015-05-28 by Johan De Vroede


You can find a film that shows the defect that I have on my Polysix. You will see that it is the VCF that seem to control the EG. Also the VCF doesn't work as it should.... I hope someone can figure out what could be the cause and what could fix it.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
VCF defect in Polysix
View on vimeo.com
Preview by Yahoo
 
 

From: "Florian Anwander fanwander@mnet-online.de [PolySix]" <PolySix@yahoogroups.com>
To: PolySix@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2015 9:20 PM
Subject: Re: [PolySix] some defects after battery leak

 
On 26.05.15 21:00 , Johan De Vroede johandevroede@yahoo.com [PolySix] wrote:
 
I filmed the defect that occurs on my Polysix ( the VCF changes the EG and the sound becomes growling ) . Can I upload it on the file section in the yahoogroup?
Put it to youtube or vimeo or similar.


Re: [PolySix] some defects after battery leak

2015-05-28 by Florian Anwander

Hello

did you start the demo from the "manual" setting or from a progam setting?

It is important, that you do it in manual mode. Otherwise it is not
really possible to deduce the relation between the misbehaviour and and
the parameter settings.
For example the "distortion" coming in at 1:25 might be a fast LFO
modulation.

It would be also helpful if one could see the whole synth all the time.
Use a camera stand and place it above the synth

Florian

Am 28.05.2015 um 17:07 schrieb Johan De Vroede johandevroede@yahoo.com
[PolySix]:
>
> You can find a film that shows the defect that I have on my Polysix.
> You will see that it is the VCF that seem to control the EG. Also the
> VCF doesn't work as it should.... I hope someone can figure out what
> could be the cause and what could fix it.
> VCF defect in Polysix
> <https://vimeo.com/129104997?utm_source=email&utm_medium=clip-transcode_complete-finished-20120100&utm_campaign=7701&email_id=Y2xpcF90cmFuc2NvZGVkfDA0OTQ0MGQ2YjE0MjkzZjdlMWM5YzQwZjNjNTIzZjdmNjZ8NDA1NzQ0MTh8MTQzMjgyNDIxOXw3NzAx>

Re: [PolySix] some defects after battery leak

2015-05-28 by Johan De Vroede

It is in manual mode. In fact I made 2 films after each other and I only posted the second...
All relevant knobs in the demo are on 0 to be sure that they don't interact... So the whole LFO is on 0. VCO is on triangle. ADSR is on zero and VCA is set to EG. Also the effects are switched off. I will make a second film where you see all the knobs while I demonstrate the defect.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

At 28-mei-2015 17:25:26, Florian Anwander fanwander@mnet-online.de [PolySix]<'PolySix@yahoogroups.com'> wrote:










Hello



did you start the demo from the "manual" setting or from a progam setting?



It is important, that you do it in manual mode. Otherwise it is not

really possible to deduce the relation between the misbehaviour and and

the parameter settings.

For example the "distortion" coming in at 1:25 might be a fast LFO

modulation.



It would be also helpful if one could see the whole synth all the time.

Use a camera stand and place it above the synth



Florian



Am 28.05.2015 um 17:07 schrieb Johan De Vroede johandevroede@yahoo.com

[PolySix]:

>

> You can find a film that shows the defect that I have on my Polysix.

> You will see that it is the VCF that seem to control the EG. Also the

> VCF doesn't work as it should.... I hope someone can figure out what

> could be the cause and what could fix it.

> VCF defect in Polysix

> <https://vimeo.com/129104997?utm_source=email&utm_medium=clip-transcode_complete-finished-20120100&utm_campaign=7701&email_id=Y2xpcF90cmFuc2NvZGVkfDA0OTQ0MGQ2YjE0MjkzZjdlMWM5YzQwZjNjNTIzZjdmNjZ8NDA1NzQ0MTh8MTQzMjgyNDIxOXw3NzAx>












Re: [PolySix] some defects after battery leak

2015-05-28 by Simon Claessen

I suspect some address lines not connected to all the 4051 ic's

On 28-05-15 17:07, Johan De Vroede johandevroede@yahoo.com [PolySix] wrote:
>
> You can find a film that shows the defect that I have on my Polysix. You will see that it is the VCF that seem to control the EG. Also the VCF doesn't work as it should.... I hope
> someone can figure out what could be the cause and what could fix it.
> VCF defect in Polysix
> <https://vimeo.com/129104997?utm_source=email&utm_medium=clip-transcode_complete-finished-20120100&utm_campaign=7701&email_id=Y2xpcF90cmFuc2NvZGVkfDA0OTQ0MGQ2YjE0MjkzZjdlMWM5YzQwZjNjNTIzZjdmNjZ8NDA1NzQ0MTh8MTQzMjgyNDIxOXw3NzAx>
>
> image
> <https://vimeo.com/129104997?utm_source=email&utm_medium=clip-transcode_complete-finished-20120100&utm_campaign=7701&email_id=Y2xpcF90cmFuc2NvZGVkfDA0OTQ0MGQ2YjE0MjkzZjdlMWM5YzQwZjNjNTIzZjdmNjZ8NDA1NzQ0MTh8MTQzMjgyNDIxOXw3NzAx>
>
>
>
>
>
> VCF defect in Polysix
> <https://vimeo.com/129104997?utm_source=email&utm_medium=clip-transcode_complete-finished-20120100&utm_campaign=7701&email_id=Y2xpcF90cmFuc2NvZGVkfDA0OTQ0MGQ2YjE0MjkzZjdlMWM5YzQwZjNjNTIzZjdmNjZ8NDA1NzQ0MTh8MTQzMjgyNDIxOXw3NzAx>
> View on vimeo.com
> <https://vimeo.com/129104997?utm_source=email&utm_medium=clip-transcode_complete-finished-20120100&utm_campaign=7701&email_id=Y2xpcF90cmFuc2NvZGVkfDA0OTQ0MGQ2YjE0MjkzZjdlMWM5YzQwZjNjNTIzZjdmNjZ8NDA1NzQ0MTh8MTQzMjgyNDIxOXw3NzAx>
>
> Preview by Yahoo
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* "Florian Anwander fanwander@mnet-online.de [PolySix]" <PolySix@yahoogroups.com>
> *To:* PolySix@yahoogroups.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 26, 2015 9:20 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [PolySix] some defects after battery leak
>
> On 26.05.15 21:00 , Johan De Vroede johandevroede@yahoo.com <mailto:johandevroede@yahoo.com> [PolySix] wrote:
>> I filmed the defect that occurs on my Polysix ( the VCF changes the EG and the sound becomes growling ) . Can I upload it on the file section in the yahoogroup?
> Put it to youtube or vimeo or similar.
>
>
>

--
Met vriendelijke Groet,

Simon Claessen
drukknop.nl

Re: [PolySix] some defects after battery leak

2015-06-07 by Johan De Vroede

Hi all,

I just fixed it. Thanks all for looking into my problem. It was a problem with a dataline to the multiplexers. So Simon and Don B( reply from May 15 )  were right ! It was pin 10 of IC 18 that was corroded. By that, P21 ( pin 22 )  on processor IC22 was not connected to Pin 10 of IC18.
I tried to repair it in 2006 and 2010 without success. Thanks to you guys it is solved !!
Thanks again and greetings from Belgium, Europe.

Johan


From: "Simon Claessen simski@dds.nl [PolySix]" <PolySix@yahoogroups.com>
To: PolySix@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2015 10:33 PM
Subject: Re: [PolySix] some defects after battery leak

 
I suspect some address lines not connected to all the 4051 ic's

On 28-05-15 17:07, Johan De Vroede johandevroede@yahoo.com [PolySix] wrote:
>
> You can find a film that shows the defect that I have on my Polysix. You will see that it is the VCF that seem to control the EG. Also the VCF doesn't work as it should.... I hope
> someone can figure out what could be the cause and what could fix it.
> VCF defect in Polysix
> <https://vimeo.com/129104997?utm_source=email&utm_medium=clip-transcode_complete-finished-20120100&utm_campaign=7701&email_id=Y2xpcF90cmFuc2NvZGVkfDA0OTQ0MGQ2YjE0MjkzZjdlMWM5YzQwZjNjNTIzZjdmNjZ8NDA1NzQ0MTh8MTQzMjgyNDIxOXw3NzAx>
>
> image
> <https://vimeo.com/129104997?utm_source=email&utm_medium=clip-transcode_complete-finished-20120100&utm_campaign=7701&email_id=Y2xpcF90cmFuc2NvZGVkfDA0OTQ0MGQ2YjE0MjkzZjdlMWM5YzQwZjNjNTIzZjdmNjZ8NDA1NzQ0MTh8MTQzMjgyNDIxOXw3NzAx>
>
>
>
>
>
> VCF defect in Polysix
> <https://vimeo.com/129104997?utm_source=email&utm_medium=clip-transcode_complete-finished-20120100&utm_campaign=7701&email_id=Y2xpcF90cmFuc2NvZGVkfDA0OTQ0MGQ2YjE0MjkzZjdlMWM5YzQwZjNjNTIzZjdmNjZ8NDA1NzQ0MTh8MTQzMjgyNDIxOXw3NzAx>
> View on vimeo.com
> <https://vimeo.com/129104997?utm_source=email&utm_medium=clip-transcode_complete-finished-20120100&utm_campaign=7701&email_id=Y2xpcF90cmFuc2NvZGVkfDA0OTQ0MGQ2YjE0MjkzZjdlMWM5YzQwZjNjNTIzZjdmNjZ8NDA1NzQ0MTh8MTQzMjgyNDIxOXw3NzAx>
>
> Preview by Yahoo
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* "Florian Anwander fanwander@mnet-online.de [PolySix]" <PolySix@yahoogroups.com>
> *To:* PolySix@yahoogroups.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 26, 2015 9:20 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [PolySix] some defects after battery leak
>
> On 26.05.15 21:00 , Johan De Vroede johandevroede@yahoo.com <mailto:johandevroede@yahoo.com> [PolySix] wrote:
>> I filmed the defect that occurs on my Polysix ( the VCF changes the EG and the sound becomes growling ) . Can I upload it on the file section in the yahoogroup?
> Put it to youtube or vimeo or similar.
>
>
>

--
Met vriendelijke Groet,

Simon Claessen
drukknop.nl