Discussion about the Korg PolySix synthesizer

Hi all,

Exciting news! The group buy for new KLM-367 pcbs is live here:

https://sites.google.com/site/jedjorgensen/

I'm still updating the parts list and some other stuff for the web page (which I will also post here once it's done), but folks who are interested in ordering can start lining up.

Thanks for all your patience as we worked through all the bugs in the prototype.

Best regards,

Jed Jorgensen

Are we on our own for parts? I just wonder if this something we'll be attempting collectively, if you guys are intending to compile those from your end to supply, or if we'll all be sourcing components on our own. I can't tell from the pics if equivalents are used or if there are loads of those old rare parts that we may have trouble tracking down. Just trying to get a read on this since it would probably impact the qty I could pick from you.

Again ~ thanks for the effort. This is fantastic either way.





--- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, "hyperjed" <jed.jorgensen@...> wrote:

>
> Hi all,
> 
> Exciting news! The group buy for new KLM-367 pcbs is live here:
> 
> https://sites.google.com/site/jedjorgensen/
> 
> I'm still updating the parts list and some other stuff for the web page (which I will also post here once it's done), but folks who are interested in ordering can start lining up.
> 
> Thanks for all your patience as we worked through all the bugs in the prototype.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Jed Jorgensen
>

I should mention that I *did* read the page at GroupBuy so clearly it's the board for sale. Just wondering if something was happening outside of that.



--- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, "ML" <f115@...> wrote:

>
> Are we on our own for parts? I just wonder if this something we'll be attempting collectively, if you guys are intending to compile those from your end to supply, or if we'll all be sourcing components on our own. I can't tell from the pics if equivalents are used or if there are loads of those old rare parts that we may have trouble tracking down. Just trying to get a read on this since it would probably impact the qty I could pick from you.
> 
> Again ~ thanks for the effort. This is fantastic either way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, "hyperjed" <jed.jorgensen@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> > 
> > Exciting news! The group buy for new KLM-367 pcbs is live here:
> > 
> > https://sites.google.com/site/jedjorgensen/
> > 
> > I'm still updating the parts list and some other stuff for the web page (which I will also post here once it's done), but folks who are interested in ordering can start lining up.
> > 
> > Thanks for all your patience as we worked through all the bugs in the prototype.
> > 
> > Best regards,
> > 
> > Jed Jorgensen
> >
>

Hi all,

I don't have plans to do a group buy for parts. The logistics on sorting so
many parts would be overwhelming. If someone else wants to take that on,
more power to you.

Andy and I are taking one last look at the parts list we used to make sure
we have everything right. Once that is complete we will publish it. It will
include, at least, Mouser part numbers so folks can see exactly what we
used.

With a few exceptions, most parts are readily available at Mouser. There are
a couple parts that are a little harder to dig up but the parts list
includes sources for those. It might make sense for a group buy to be formed
around those parts to save everyone some hassle. Again, I don't want to do
that myself, just a suggestion.

There ARE some parts for which WE know of no "perfect" replacement. That
includes the original connectors (you can used breakaway headers just fine,
but the connector doesn't lock like on the original) and the thermistor.
There are thermistors out there, so a replacement might be available, we
just didn't really test them.

Along these same lines, I should note that Andy and I will have limited to
no ability to provide "support services" for builders. As I mentioned on the
website, if you are buying these boards you need to know how to solder and
calibrate or find someone who can do that for you. It's hard to believe how
much time has been poured into these boards...my family won't really be able
to tolerate much more time in the future.

Looking at the group buy I'm happy to see we've got 29 people committed and
13 more interested. If everyone who is interested commits that will bring
prices down to $22. I was hoping prices would get at least that low.

Thanks,

Jed

On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 8:45 PM, ML <f115@rocketmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> I should mention that I *did* read the page at GroupBuy so clearly it's the
> board for sale. Just wondering if something was happening outside of that.
>
>
> --- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com <PolySix%40yahoogroups.com>, "ML" <f115@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Are we on our own for parts? I just wonder if this something we'll be
> attempting collectively, if you guys are intending to compile those from
> your end to supply, or if we'll all be sourcing components on our own. I
> can't tell from the pics if equivalents are used or if there are loads of
> those old rare parts that we may have trouble tracking down. Just trying to
> get a read on this since it would probably impact the qty I could pick from
> you.
> >
> > Again ~ thanks for the effort. This is fantastic either way.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com <PolySix%40yahoogroups.com>, "hyperjed"
> <jed.jorgensen@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > Exciting news! The group buy for new KLM-367 pcbs is live here:
> > >
> > > https://sites.google.com/site/jedjorgensen/
> > >
> > > I'm still updating the parts list and some other stuff for the web page
> (which I will also post here once it's done), but folks who are interested
> in ordering can start lining up.
> > >
> > > Thanks for all your patience as we worked through all the bugs in the
> prototype.
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > >
> > > Jed Jorgensen
> > >
> >
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have just posted some info about the group buy to the Gearslutz and 
VSE forums, and the Analogue Heaven mailing list.  Hopefully this will 
bring in a few more orders!

I'd like to take this opportunity to thank Jed and Andy for their 
fantastic work on this. :-)

Cheers
Frank

Probably at least one anyway. ;-)  I know that the partslist/BOM is not uploaded yet, and I'm ashamed to say I dumped my Polysix last year on eBay, but I don't recall what parts were on that board.  Is everything obtainable or are some of the parts pretty rare?


--- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, Frank McGing <frank@...> wrote:

>
> I have just posted some info about the group buy to the Gearslutz and 
> VSE forums, and the Analogue Heaven mailing list.  Hopefully this will 
> bring in a few more orders!
> 
> I'd like to take this opportunity to thank Jed and Andy for their 
> fantastic work on this. :-)
> 
> Cheers
> Frank
>

As I said in my email earlier today:

With a few exceptions, most parts are readily available at Mouser. There are
a couple parts that are a little harder to dig up but the parts list
includes sources for those. It might make sense for a group buy to be formed
around those parts to save everyone some hassle. I don't want to do that
myself, just a suggestion.

There ARE some parts for which WE know of no "perfect" replacement. That
includes the original connectors (you can used breakaway headers just fine,
but the connector doesn't lock like on the original) and the thermistor.
There are thermistors out there, so a replacement might be available, we
just didn't really test them.

On my prototype, the thermistor is the ONLY part which isn't brand new.

J

On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:10 AM, grantpbt <grantbt@jps.net> wrote:

>
>
> Probably at least one anyway. ;-) I know that the partslist/BOM is not
> uploaded yet, and I'm ashamed to say I dumped my Polysix last year on eBay,
> but I don't recall what parts were on that board. Is everything obtainable
> or are some of the parts pretty rare?
>
>
> --- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com <PolySix%40yahoogroups.com>, Frank McGing
> <frank@...> wrote:
> >
> > I have just posted some info about the group buy to the Gearslutz and
> > VSE forums, and the Analogue Heaven mailing list. Hopefully this will
> > bring in a few more orders!
> >
> > I'd like to take this opportunity to thank Jed and Andy for their
> > fantastic work on this. :-)
> >
> > Cheers
> > Frank
> >
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Well I'm glad to hear that most of these are available. I was starting to look at those old Hitachi ICs and was getting a bit concerned about those and a few others. 798s are pretty pricey. There are a good handful here that seem like tough parts to track down.

Regarding the calibration: did you guys get the values right from the service manual? VR1-VR7? Is there more to it than that? I'm trying my best to avoid 'support questions' but I think it's due diligence before diving into buying these boards. I'm trying to get a sense of how involved this will be. Soldering: no problem. Calibrating: not so sure about that at all, unless it's just dialing in correct resistance values. I may even have to flash 8048s and that's a whole other matter.

Incidentally I also put the word out to a handful of other forums and I see some of them have signed on so that's nice!

All I will say on the matter is make sure you have and know how to use an
oscilloscope before you start! If you make a mistake in the MG / PWM section
of the board you will need it to bail you out!

Andy


On 22/02/2010 21:51, "ML" <f115@rocketmail.com> wrote:

>  
>  
>  
>    
> 
> Well I'm glad to hear that most of these are available. I was starting to look
> at those old Hitachi ICs and was getting a bit concerned about those and a few
> others. 798s are pretty pricey. There are a good handful here that seem like
> tough parts to track down.
> 
> Regarding the calibration: did you guys get the values right from the service
> manual? VR1-VR7? Is there more to it than that? I'm trying my best to avoid
> 'support questions' but I think it's due diligence before diving into buying
> these boards. I'm trying to get a sense of how involved this will be.
> Soldering: no problem. Calibrating: not so sure about that at all, unless it's
> just dialing in correct resistance values. I may even have to flash 8048s and
> that's a whole other matter.
> 
> Incidentally I also put the word out to a handful of other forums and I see
> some of them have signed on so that's nice!
> 
>  
>    
> 
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

For reference, I spent ~$100 on parts for my prototype. That included
purchasing a new 8048, pre-flashed, for about $25. If you don't need that
you save ~1/4 of the cost.

There are a few pricier parts (in the $3 or $5 range), but by and large the
cost is a factor of the quantity of parts on the board. Including all the
vias connecting the two sides (which, incidentally, are very small and
require a good bit of concentration), there are >1,200 holes to solder. That
said, I am not an expert at soldering and it took me about 4-5 hours to get
the job done. It's quite doable given the time.

Calibration is per the service manual, as you surmised.

I think what Andy is trying to say below, which I agree with, is that if you
mess up the build you are going to need a multimeter, an oscilloscope, and
some brain power in order to trouble shoot what is going wrong. That's the
part where we're not really going to be able to save your bacon.

Thanks for getting the word out!

Jed

On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 1:51 PM, ML <f115@rocketmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> Well I'm glad to hear that most of these are available. I was starting to
> look at those old Hitachi ICs and was getting a bit concerned about those
> and a few others. 798s are pretty pricey. There are a good handful here that
> seem like tough parts to track down.
>
> Regarding the calibration: did you guys get the values right from the
> service manual? VR1-VR7? Is there more to it than that? I'm trying my best
> to avoid 'support questions' but I think it's due diligence before diving
> into buying these boards. I'm trying to get a sense of how involved this
> will be. Soldering: no problem. Calibrating: not so sure about that at all,
> unless it's just dialing in correct resistance values. I may even have to
> flash 8048s and that's a whole other matter.
>
> Incidentally I also put the word out to a handful of other forums and I see
> some of them have signed on so that's nice!
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

This is all great news. I started poking around the service manual again for the board and it certainly all seems to be there. If you guys used the same point of reference that seems like good news to me :)

Jed Jorgensen wrote:
> I think what Andy is trying to say below, which I agree with, is that if you
> mess up the build you are going to need a multimeter, an oscilloscope, and
> some brain power in order to trouble shoot what is going wrong. That's the
> part where we're not really going to be able to save your bacon.
>   

I would also be interested to know what the available options and costs 
are - I'm pretty good with a soldering iron and I would enjoy the 
challenge (and process) of building the board, but my electronic 
troubleshooting knowledge is rather limited if I get something wrong.

Cheers
Frank

Just one question. Is there a parts list available? A suggested source or sources for these parts would be nice (if you have already done the research to build the prototypes). FYI- I am in  (comited) for 2 of them.  Much thanks for the hard work and dedication to keeping these classics alive!

--- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, "ML" <f115@...> wrote:

>
> Are we on our own for parts? I just wonder if this something we'll be attempting collectively, if you guys are intending to compile those from your end to supply, or if we'll all be sourcing components on our own. I can't tell from the pics if equivalents are used or if there are loads of those old rare parts that we may have trouble tracking down. Just trying to get a read on this since it would probably impact the qty I could pick from you.
> 
> Again ~ thanks for the effort. This is fantastic either way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, "hyperjed" <jed.jorgensen@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> > 
> > Exciting news! The group buy for new KLM-367 pcbs is live here:
> > 
> > https://sites.google.com/site/jedjorgensen/
> > 
> > I'm still updating the parts list and some other stuff for the web page (which I will also post here once it's done), but folks who are interested in ordering can start lining up.
> > 
> > Thanks for all your patience as we worked through all the bugs in the prototype.
> > 
> > Best regards,
> > 
> > Jed Jorgensen
> >
>

Andy and I are putting the final touches on the parts list. It will include
Mouser part numbers and sources for parts that can't be found at Mouser.

Look for it on the website in the next day or less.

Thanks,

Jed

On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 8:50 PM, fz1rules <wmansfie@pacbell.net> wrote:

>
>
> Just one question. Is there a parts list available? A suggested source or
> sources for these parts would be nice (if you have already done the research
> to build the prototypes). FYI- I am in (comited) for 2 of them. Much thanks
> for the hard work and dedication to keeping these classics alive!
>
>
> --- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com <PolySix%40yahoogroups.com>, "ML" <f115@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Are we on our own for parts? I just wonder if this something we'll be
> attempting collectively, if you guys are intending to compile those from
> your end to supply, or if we'll all be sourcing components on our own. I
> can't tell from the pics if equivalents are used or if there are loads of
> those old rare parts that we may have trouble tracking down. Just trying to
> get a read on this since it would probably impact the qty I could pick from
> you.
> >
> > Again ~ thanks for the effort. This is fantastic either way.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com <PolySix%40yahoogroups.com>, "hyperjed"
> <jed.jorgensen@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > Exciting news! The group buy for new KLM-367 pcbs is live here:
> > >
> > > https://sites.google.com/site/jedjorgensen/
> > >
> > > I'm still updating the parts list and some other stuff for the web page
> (which I will also post here once it's done), but folks who are interested
> in ordering can start lining up.
> > >
> > > Thanks for all your patience as we worked through all the bugs in the
> prototype.
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > >
> > > Jed Jorgensen
> > >
> >
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi folks,

The parts list is live here:
https://sites.google.com/site/jedjorgensen/klm367a/parts

<https://sites.google.com/site/jedjorgensen/klm367a/parts>Thanks,

Jed

On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 6:32 AM, Jed Jorgensen <jed.jorgensen@gmail.com>wrote:

> Andy and I are putting the final touches on the parts list. It will include
> Mouser part numbers and sources for parts that can't be found at Mouser.
>
> Look for it on the website in the next day or less.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jed
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 8:50 PM, fz1rules <wmansfie@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Just one question. Is there a parts list available? A suggested source or
>> sources for these parts would be nice (if you have already done the research
>> to build the prototypes). FYI- I am in (comited) for 2 of them. Much thanks
>> for the hard work and dedication to keeping these classics alive!
>>
>>
>> --- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com <PolySix%40yahoogroups.com>, "ML" <f115@...>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Are we on our own for parts? I just wonder if this something we'll be
>> attempting collectively, if you guys are intending to compile those from
>> your end to supply, or if we'll all be sourcing components on our own. I
>> can't tell from the pics if equivalents are used or if there are loads of
>> those old rare parts that we may have trouble tracking down. Just trying to
>> get a read on this since it would probably impact the qty I could pick from
>> you.
>> >
>> > Again ~ thanks for the effort. This is fantastic either way.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com <PolySix%40yahoogroups.com>, "hyperjed"
>> <jed.jorgensen@> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Hi all,
>> > >
>> > > Exciting news! The group buy for new KLM-367 pcbs is live here:
>> > >
>> > > https://sites.google.com/site/jedjorgensen/
>> > >
>> > > I'm still updating the parts list and some other stuff for the web
>> page (which I will also post here once it's done), but folks who are
>> interested in ordering can start lining up.
>> > >
>> > > Thanks for all your patience as we worked through all the bugs in the
>> prototype.
>> > >
>> > > Best regards,
>> > >
>> > > Jed Jorgensen
>> > >
>> >
>>
>>  
>>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

For anyone who might need them, I have replacements for the 8048 CPU 
chips used on the KLM367 board.
$20 plus Priority Mail shipping charge.

~GMM
analogsynthservice.com

Hi again ~

I've been checking out the BOM and had some more questions. I'm trying to work out some of the kinks where original parts will not be on hand to rebuild some of these boards.

1) Is there any info on that 1K Thermistor? Do we know what its temp range and tolerance is? I wonder if that info would be sufficient to find another solution from Mouser or some other supplier. I'm trying to see if I can find an alternative.  I would think it is. I have no doubt that you guys did your homework but I thought I'd ask. I'll need more of these than what I have on-hand.

2) The pin headers. Were you able to use the old connectors with your new pins or did you have to change the connector as well?

1) You may be correct about the thermistor, but alternate parts have not
been tested. I believe new thermistors are not terribly expensive, so you
should plan to test this.

2) The parts list indicates that the preference is to reuse the old
connectors. The pin spacing has been preserved. New breakaway headers can
also be used but you lose the "locking" feature of the old connectors. (And,
it should be obvious, you need to make sure you put the connectors on the
right way.)

j

On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 9:17 AM, ML <f115@rocketmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> Hi again ~
>
> I've been checking out the BOM and had some more questions. I'm trying to
> work out some of the kinks where original parts will not be on hand to
> rebuild some of these boards.
>
> 1) Is there any info on that 1K Thermistor? Do we know what its temp range
> and tolerance is? I wonder if that info would be sufficient to find another
> solution from Mouser or some other supplier. I'm trying to see if I can find
> an alternative. I would think it is. I have no doubt that you guys did your
> homework but I thought I'd ask. I'll need more of these than what I have
> on-hand.
>
> 2) The pin headers. Were you able to use the old connectors with your new
> pins or did you have to change the connector as well?
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Now I always get this around the wrong way, so please research my advice!!
This component is an NTC type similar to Mouser 785-143-102LAG-RC1 and not a
PTC. This type you¹d find, say, in an old TV set¹s CRT degaussing system
which goes very high resistance when it heats up! TV sets is where I started
so I should remember, but that was a very long time ago! During the R Œn¹ D
phase of building the board we used the TH1 from an old board and the MG
circuit remained pretty stable during testing.

Cheers,
Andy


On 24/02/2010 17:17, "ML" <f115@rocketmail.com> wrote:

>  
>  
>  
>    
> 
> Hi again ~
> 
> I've been checking out the BOM and had some more questions. I'm trying to work
> out some of the kinks where original parts will not be on hand to rebuild some
> of these boards.
> 
> 1) Is there any info on that 1K Thermistor? Do we know what its temp range and
> tolerance is? I wonder if that info would be sufficient to find another
> solution from Mouser or some other supplier. I'm trying to see if I can find
> an alternative.  I would think it is. I have no doubt that you guys did your
> homework but I thought I'd ask. I'll need more of these than what I have
> on-hand.
> 
> 2) The pin headers. Were you able to use the old connectors with your new pins
> or did you have to change the connector as well?
> 
>  
>    
> 
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Good news on both fronts. I wish I could find a datasheet on that thermistor though. Nothing out there! Thanks

Just a head's up that the parts list shows PTC.

Thanks for catching that.

I've updated the parts list.

j

On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 3:26 PM, ML <f115@rocketmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> Just a head's up that the parts list shows PTC.
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Oops! Told you I didn¹t have a clue! I shall investigate and update the
list. Let me re-iterate though, all the testing of the new board was done
using a salvaged part. No undue variation in the factory spec was noticed...

Cheers,
Andy


On 24/02/2010 23:26, "ML" <f115@rocketmail.com> wrote:

>  
>  
>  
>    
> 
> Just a head's up that the parts list shows PTC.
> 
>  
>    
> 
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

...I tried several times to reply to your question about the arpeggiator 
problems, but received failure notices from my mailer.
Did you receive any of my replies?

~G