Discussion about the Korg PolySix synthesizer

> I've been recovering this one, found in the flea market. Overall it
> had about 8-9 different faults that I fixed, leaving two problems.
>
> The first is a bad SSM2056 chip which I need to find. The second i
> probably inherent in the discrete ciruit of the second oscillator.
>
> Upon powering it up, that particular oscillator will be out of tune,
> till it gets to its max. internal temperature where the tuning of
> that VCO is geting more or less - stable.
>
> All other oscillators are immediately in tune, no matter what is the
> temperatue inside the machine.
>
> I, of course, tried to figure out what the bad component is by
> blowing with a straw on each and each of the suspected compnents, but
> blowingon every component on the circuit of that oscialltor which
> seems to be pitch related, seems to effect the pitch.
>
> I also tried to switch transistors between the bad oscillator and
> another (working one) but the problem persisted.
>
> Does anyone have any other idea / direction ?
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
>
>
>
> PolySix "Digiest" Page: http://www.acc.umu.se/~amber/Poly6
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> > blowingon every component on the circuit of that oscialltor which
> > seems to be pitch related, seems to effect the pitch.
> >
> > I also tried to switch transistors between the bad oscillator and
> > another (working one) but the problem persisted.
> >
> > Does anyone have any other idea / direction ?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > PolySix "Digiest" Page: http://www.acc.umu.se/~amber/Poly6
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

> Thanks very much !
>
> The tuning is bad on both VCO1 and VCO2 of that oscillator (although
> it seems more extreme on VCO2).
>
> I uploaded the schematics diagram for the VCO board to the files
> section - what would be the caps to check on that one ?
>
> Thanks again.
>
>
> --- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, Johannes Hausensteiner <johau@g...>
> wrote:
>
>>Hi,
>>
>>I only have the schematics for the MK I; which I do not know whether
>>it is similar to the MK II. Which VCO has the problem? Is it VCO-1 or
>>VCO-2 or both? If it is both then have a look at the hold capacitors
>>after the VCO CV demux IC15 (a 4051) on KLM-301 board. These are the
>>caps C25 - C32.
>>
>>Good luck,
>>
>>Johannes
>>
>>
>>gil_we wrote:
>>
>>>I've been recovering this one, found in the flea market. Overall it
>>>had about 8-9 different faults that I fixed, leaving two problems.
>>>
>>>The first is a bad SSM2056 chip which I need to find. The second i
>>>probably inherent in the discrete ciruit of the second oscillator.
>>>
>>>Upon powering it up, that particular oscillator will be out of tune,
>>>till it gets to its max. internal temperature where the tuning of
>>>that VCO is geting more or less - stable.
>>>
>>>All other oscillators are immediately in tune, no matter what is the
>>>temperatue inside the machine.
>>>
>>>I, of course, tried to figure out what the bad component is by
>>>blowing with a straw on each and each of the suspected compnents, but
>>>blowing on every component on the circuit of that oscialltor which
>>>seems to be pitch related, seems to effect the pitch.
>>>
>>>I also tried to switch transistors between the bad oscillator and
>>>another (working one) but the problem persisted.
>>>
>>>Does anyone have any other idea / direction ?
>>>
>>>Thanks
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

> >>>another (working one) but the problem persisted.
> >>>
> >>>Does anyone have any other idea / direction ?
> >>>
> >>>Thanks
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>

> Thanks !
>
> The Cx10 and Rx39 have been already replaced to no avail.
>
> By IC8 are you refering to ICx08 ? it's a 4558 opamp.
>
> btw, I now see that I had to replace Rx36 with a slightly different
> value because even after the machine is warm enough, with the
> original value the related VCO still cannot get tuned with the other
> oscillators, not matter how you set the VCO tuning trimmers.
>
> Thanks again.
>
> --- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, Johannes Hausensteiner <johau@g...>
> wrote:
>
>>Hi,
>>
>>The caps are Cx10 ... where x is the voice number. On the schematics
>>only voice #7 is drawn in detail, so you can see C710. Maybe it is
>
> not
>
>>the cap but the accompanying resistor (R739), or the demux (IC8).
>>
>>This is a great machine. Two really independant VCOs!
>>
>>Johannes
>>
>>
>>gil_we wrote:
>>
>>>Thanks very much !
>>>
>>>The tuning is bad on both VCO1 and VCO2 of that oscillator
>
> (although
>
>>>it seems more extreme on VCO2).
>>>
>>>I uploaded the schematics diagram for the VCO board to the files
>>>section - what would be the caps to check on that one ?
>>>
>>>Thanks again.
>>>
>>>
>>>--- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, Johannes Hausensteiner
>
> <johau@g...>
>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Hi,
>>>>
>>>>I only have the schematics for the MK I; which I do not know
>
> whether
>
>>>>it is similar to the MK II. Which VCO has the problem? Is it VCO-
>
> 1 or
>
>>>>VCO-2 or both? If it is both then have a look at the hold
>
> capacitors
>
>>>>after the VCO CV demux IC15 (a 4051) on KLM-301 board. These are
>
> the
>
>>>>caps C25 - C32.
>>>>
>>>>Good luck,
>>>>
>>>>Johannes
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>gil_we wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I've been recovering this one, found in the flea market. Overall
>
> it
>
>>>>>had about 8-9 different faults that I fixed, leaving two
>
> problems.
>
>>>>>The first is a bad SSM2056 chip which I need to find. The second
>
> i
>
>>>>>probably inherent in the discrete ciruit of the second
>
> oscillator.
>
>>>>>Upon powering it up, that particular oscillator will be out of
>
> tune,
>
>>>>>till it gets to its max. internal temperature where the tuning
>
> of
>
>>>>>that VCO is geting more or less - stable.
>>>>>
>>>>>All other oscillators are immediately in tune, no matter what is
>
> the
>
>>>>>temperatue inside the machine.
>>>>>
>>>>>I, of course, tried to figure out what the bad component is by
>>>>>blowing with a straw on each and each of the suspected
>
> compnents, but
>
>>>>>blowing on every component on the circuit of that oscialltor
>
> which
>
>>>>>seems to be pitch related, seems to effect the pitch.
>>>>>
>>>>>I also tried to switch transistors between the bad oscillator
>
> and
>
>>>>>another (working one) but the problem persisted.
>>>>>
>>>>>Does anyone have any other idea / direction ?
>>>>>
>>>>>Thanks
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> PolySix "Digiest" Page: http://www.acc.umu.se/~amber/Poly6
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> >
> > the
> >
> >>>>>temperatue inside the machine.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>I, of course, tried to figure out what the bad component is by
> >>>>>blowing with a straw on each and each of the suspected
> >
> > compnents, but
> >
> >>>>>blowing on every component on the circuit of that oscialltor
> >
> > which
> >
> >>>>>seems to be pitch related, seems to effect the pitch.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>I also tried to switch transistors between the bad oscillator
> >
> > and
> >
> >>>>>another (working one) but the problem persisted.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Does anyone have any other idea / direction ?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Thanks
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > PolySix "Digiest" Page: http://www.acc.umu.se/~amber/Poly6
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

> You know what ?... now I relaize I replaced IC8 and ICx11 as well !
>
> Any other idea you can think of ?
>
> What you're saying is that as long as the problem exist on both VCO
> it must be caused by a common part to both VCO ?...
>
> I'll try the ICx11 ... any other idea you can think of ?
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, Johannes Hausensteiner <johau@g...>
> wrote:
>
>>If you already replaced Rx39/Cx10 then the only thing in common
>>for both VCOs in one voice is ICx11 (TL072). THe value of Rx39
>>is not very critical unless it is very different to the nominal
>>value of 1k
>>
>> > By IC8 are you refering to ICx08 ? it's a 4558 opamp.
>>No, I mean IC8, which is a 4051. It is common to all voices; it
>>demultiplexes the CV for the VCOs
>>
>>Johannes
>>
>>
>>gil_we wrote:
>>
>>>Thanks !
>>>
>>>The Cx10 and Rx39 have been already replaced to no avail.
>>>
>>>By IC8 are you refering to ICx08 ? it's a 4558 opamp.
>>>
>>>btw, I now see that I had to replace Rx36 with a slightly
>
> different
>
>>>value because even after the machine is warm enough, with the
>>>original value the related VCO still cannot get tuned with the
>
> other
>
>>>oscillators, not matter how you set the VCO tuning trimmers.
>>>
>>>Thanks again.
>>>
>>>--- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, Johannes Hausensteiner
>
> <johau@g...>
>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Hi,
>>>>
>>>>The caps are Cx10 ... where x is the voice number. On the
>
> schematics
>
>>>>only voice #7 is drawn in detail, so you can see C710. Maybe it
>
> is
>
>>>not
>>>
>>>
>>>>the cap but the accompanying resistor (R739), or the demux (IC8).
>>>>
>>>>This is a great machine. Two really independant VCOs!
>>>>
>>>>Johannes
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>gil_we wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Thanks very much !
>>>>>
>>>>>The tuning is bad on both VCO1 and VCO2 of that oscillator
>>>
>>>(although
>>>
>>>
>>>>>it seems more extreme on VCO2).
>>>>>
>>>>>I uploaded the schematics diagram for the VCO board to the files
>>>>>section - what would be the caps to check on that one ?
>>>>>
>>>>>Thanks again.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>--- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, Johannes Hausensteiner
>>>
>>><johau@g...>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I only have the schematics for the MK I; which I do not know
>>>
>>>whether
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>it is similar to the MK II. Which VCO has the problem? Is it
>
> VCO-
>
>>>1 or
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>VCO-2 or both? If it is both then have a look at the hold
>>>
>>>capacitors
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>after the VCO CV demux IC15 (a 4051) on KLM-301 board. These
>
> are
>
>>>the
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>caps C25 - C32.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Good luck,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Johannes
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>gil_we wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I've been recovering this one, found in the flea market.
>
> Overall
>
>>>it
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>had about 8-9 different faults that I fixed, leaving two
>>>
>>>problems.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>The first is a bad SSM2056 chip which I need to find. The
>
> second
>
>>>i
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>probably inherent in the discrete ciruit of the second
>>>
>>>oscillator.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>Upon powering it up, that particular oscillator will be out of
>>>
>>>tune,
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>till it gets to its max. internal temperature where the tuning
>>>
>>>of
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>that VCO is geting more or less - stable.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>All other oscillators are immediately in tune, no matter what
>
> is
>
>>>the
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>temperatue inside the machine.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I, of course, tried to figure out what the bad component is by
>>>>>>>blowing with a straw on each and each of the suspected
>>>
>>>compnents, but
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>blowing on every component on the circuit of that oscialltor
>>>
>>>which
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>seems to be pitch related, seems to effect the pitch.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I also tried to switch transistors between the bad oscillator
>>>
>>>and
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>another (working one) but the problem persisted.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Does anyone have any other idea / direction ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Thanks
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>PolySix "Digiest" Page: http://www.acc.umu.se/~amber/Poly6
>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> PolySix "Digiest" Page: http://www.acc.umu.se/~amber/Poly6
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> You know what ?... now I relaize I replaced IC8 and ICx11 as well !
>
> What if the problem is related with only one of the VCOs...? lets say
> VCO1. What would you check/replace ?
>
>
> --- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, Johannes Hausensteiner <johau@g...>
> wrote:
>
>>If you already replaced Rx39/Cx10 then the only thing in common
>>for both VCOs in one voice is ICx11 (TL072). THe value of Rx39
>>is not very critical unless it is very different to the nominal
>>value of 1k
>>
>> > By IC8 are you refering to ICx08 ? it's a 4558 opamp.
>>No, I mean IC8, which is a 4051. It is common to all voices; it
>>demultiplexes the CV for the VCOs
>>
>>Johannes
>>
>>
>>gil_we wrote:
>>
>>>Thanks !
>>>
>>>The Cx10 and Rx39 have been already replaced to no avail.
>>>
>>>By IC8 are you refering to ICx08 ? it's a 4558 opamp.
>>>
>>>btw, I now see that I had to replace Rx36 with a slightly
>
> different
>
>>>value because even after the machine is warm enough, with the
>>>original value the related VCO still cannot get tuned with the
>
> other
>
>>>oscillators, not matter how you set the VCO tuning trimmers.
>>>
>>>Thanks again.
>>>
>>>--- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, Johannes Hausensteiner
>
> <johau@g...>
>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Hi,
>>>>
>>>>The caps are Cx10 ... where x is the voice number. On the
>
> schematics
>
>>>>only voice #7 is drawn in detail, so you can see C710. Maybe it
>
> is
>
>>>not
>>>
>>>
>>>>the cap but the accompanying resistor (R739), or the demux (IC8).
>>>>
>>>>This is a great machine. Two really independant VCOs!
>>>>
>>>>Johannes
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>gil_we wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Thanks very much !
>>>>>
>>>>>The tuning is bad on both VCO1 and VCO2 of that oscillator
>>>
>>>(although
>>>
>>>
>>>>>it seems more extreme on VCO2).
>>>>>
>>>>>I uploaded the schematics diagram for the VCO board to the files
>>>>>section - what would be the caps to check on that one ?
>>>>>
>>>>>Thanks again.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>--- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, Johannes Hausensteiner
>>>
>>><johau@g...>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I only have the schematics for the MK I; which I do not know
>>>
>>>whether
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>it is similar to the MK II. Which VCO has the problem? Is it
>
> VCO-
>
>>>1 or
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>VCO-2 or both? If it is both then have a look at the hold
>>>
>>>capacitors
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>after the VCO CV demux IC15 (a 4051) on KLM-301 board. These
>
> are
>
>>>the
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>caps C25 - C32.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Good luck,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Johannes
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>gil_we wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I've been recovering this one, found in the flea market.
>
> Overall
>
>>>it
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>had about 8-9 different faults that I fixed, leaving two
>>>
>>>problems.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>The first is a bad SSM2056 chip which I need to find. The
>
> second
>
>>>i
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>probably inherent in the discrete ciruit of the second
>>>
>>>oscillator.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>Upon powering it up, that particular oscillator will be out of
>>>
>>>tune,
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>till it gets to its max. internal temperature where the tuning
>>>
>>>of
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>that VCO is geting more or less - stable.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>All other oscillators are immediately in tune, no matter what
>
> is
>
>>>the
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>temperatue inside the machine.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I, of course, tried to figure out what the bad component is by
>>>>>>>blowing with a straw on each and each of the suspected
>>>
>>>compnents, but
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>blowing on every component on the circuit of that oscialltor
>>>
>>>which
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>seems to be pitch related, seems to effect the pitch.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I also tried to switch transistors between the bad oscillator
>>>
>>>and
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>another (working one) but the problem persisted.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Does anyone have any other idea / direction ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Thanks
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>PolySix "Digiest" Page: http://www.acc.umu.se/~amber/Poly6
>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> PolySix "Digiest" Page: http://www.acc.umu.se/~amber/Poly6
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----
From: gil_we <gil_we@yahoo.com>
To: PolySix@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PolySix] Re: Trident MKII - one oscillator is out of tune
Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 21:51:15 -0000

>
> You know what ?... now I relaize I replaced IC8 and ICx11 as well !
>
> Any other idea you can think of ?
>
>
>
>
> --- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, Johannes Hausensteiner <johau@g...>
> wrote:
> >
> > If you already replaced Rx39/Cx10 then the only thing in common
> > for both VCOs in one voice is ICx11 (TL072). THe value of Rx39
> > is not very critical unless it is very different to the nominal
> > value of 1k
> >
> > > By IC8 are you refering to ICx08 ? it's a 4558 opamp.
> > No, I mean IC8, which is a 4051. It is common to all voices; it
> > demultiplexes the CV for the VCOs
> >
> > Johannes
> >
> >
> > gil_we wrote:
> > > Thanks !
> > > > The Cx10 and Rx39 have been already replaced to no avail.
> > > > By IC8 are you refering to ICx08 ? it's a 4558 opamp.
> > > > btw, I now see that I had to replace Rx36 with a slightly
> different
> > > value because even after the machine is warm enough, with the
> > > original value the related VCO still cannot get tuned with the
> other
> > > oscillators, not matter how you set the VCO tuning trimmers.
> > > > Thanks again.
> > > > --- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, Johannes Hausensteiner
> <johau@g...>
> > > wrote:
> > > >>Hi,
> > >>
> > >>The caps are Cx10 ... where x is the voice number. On the
> schematics
> > >>only voice #7 is drawn in detail, so you can see C710. Maybe it
> is
> > > > not
> > > >>the cap but the accompanying resistor (R739), or the demux (IC8).
> > >>
> > >>This is a great machine. Two really independant VCOs!
> > >>
> > >>Johannes
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>gil_we wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>Thanks very much !
> > >>>
> > >>>The tuning is bad on both VCO1 and VCO2 of that oscillator > >
> > (although > >>>it seems more extreme on VCO2).
> > >>>
> > >>>I uploaded the schematics diagram for the VCO board to the
> > files >>>section - what would be the caps to check on that one ?
> > >>>
> > >>>Thanks again.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>--- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, Johannes Hausensteiner > >
> > <johau@g...> > >>>wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>Hi,
> > >>>>
> > >>>>I only have the schematics for the MK I; which I do not know > > whether
> > > >>>>it is similar to the MK II. Which VCO has the problem? Is it
> VCO-
> > > > 1 or
> > > >>>>VCO-2 or both? If it is both then have a look at the hold >
> > > capacitors > >>>>after the VCO CV demux IC15 (a 4051) on
> > KLM-301 board. These
> are
> > > > the
> > > >>>>caps C25 - C32.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>Good luck,
> > >>>>
> > >>>>Johannes
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>gil_we wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>I've been recovering this one, found in the flea market.
> Overall
> > > > it > >>>>>had about 8-9 different faults that I fixed,
> > leaving two > > problems.
> > > >>>>>The first is a bad SSM2056 chip which I need to find. The
> second
> > > > i > >>>>>probably inherent in the discrete ciruit of the
> > second > > oscillator.
> > > >>>>>Upon powering it up, that particular oscillator will be
> > out of > > tune, > >>>>>till it gets to its max. internal
> > temperature where the tuning > > of > >>>>>that VCO is geting
> > more or less - stable.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>All other oscillators are immediately in tune, no matter what
> is
> > > > the > >>>>>temperatue inside the machine.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>I, of course, tried to figure out what the bad component is
> > by >>>>>blowing with a straw on each and each of the suspected >
> > > compnents, but > >>>>>blowing on every component on the circuit
> > of that oscialltor > > which > >>>>>seems to be pitch related,
> > seems to effect the pitch.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>I also tried to switch transistors between the bad
> > oscillator > > and > >>>>>another (working one) but the problem
> > persisted.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>Does anyone have any other idea / direction ?
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>Thanks
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > > > > > > > > > > PolySix "Digiest" Page:
> > http://www.acc.umu.se/~amber/Poly6 > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > > > > > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> PolySix "Digiest" Page: http://www.acc.umu.se/~amber/Poly6
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>



.sig
-Chromatest J. Pantsmaker
http://www.chromatest.net

> > > of that oscialltor > > which > >>>>>seems to be pitch related,
> > > seems to effect the pitch.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>I also tried to switch transistors between the bad
> > > oscillator > > and > >>>>>another (working one) but the problem
> > > persisted.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>Does anyone have any other idea / direction ?
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>Thanks
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > PolySix "Digiest" Page:
> > > http://www.acc.umu.se/~amber/Poly6 > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > PolySix "Digiest" Page: http://www.acc.umu.se/~amber/Poly6
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> .sig
> -Chromatest J. Pantsmaker
> http://www.chromatest.net
>

--- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, "gil_we" <gil_we@y...> wrote:
>
> Thanks guys !
>
> There was something strange going on.... After writing my previous
> mail I ran over a few components with a "freeze" spray, among them
> the transistors and caps area of both VCOs on the problematic
> oscillator and the R40 component (what looks like a mutli-leg
> transistor but I guess is a multi-resistor ?)
>
> Suddenly, two things happen (which still happen if I turn the
machine
> off for a few hours and back on... regardless internal temperature):
>
> 1. The bad oscillator is no more out of tune !
>
> 2. The entire scale has changed - i.e the gap between each note to
> the one that follows it is larger (there is more than one octave
gap
> between C4 and C5 for example)
>
> But that made me recall that when I got hte unit there was not
tuning
> issue at all, and the bad tuning problem on the second oscillator
> only started once I started servicing the machine)
>
> Strange huh ?
>
> Could it be R40 that is defective ? does that make sense ?
>
> Thanks again !
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, "Chromatest J. Pantsmaker"
> <chromatest@g...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > replace them again? Sometimes (and it will always bite you) you
> put in a bunk part as a replacement.. then you spend all week
looking
> for something else, saying "it can't be X! I replaced X"..
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: gil_we <gil_we@y...>
> > To: PolySix@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [PolySix] Re: Trident MKII - one oscillator is out of
tune
> > Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 21:51:15 -0000
> >
> > >
> > > You know what ?... now I relaize I replaced IC8 and ICx11 as
> well !
> > >
> > > Any other idea you can think of ?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, Johannes Hausensteiner
> <johau@g...>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > If you already replaced Rx39/Cx10 then the only thing in
common
> > > > for both VCOs in one voice is ICx11 (TL072). THe value of
Rx39
> > > > is not very critical unless it is very different to the
nominal
> > > > value of 1k
> > > >
> > > > > By IC8 are you refering to ICx08 ? it's a 4558 opamp.
> > > > No, I mean IC8, which is a 4051. It is common to all voices;
it
> > > > demultiplexes the CV for the VCOs
> > > >
> > > > Johannes
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > gil_we wrote:
> > > > > Thanks !
> > > > > > The Cx10 and Rx39 have been already replaced to no avail.
> > > > > > By IC8 are you refering to ICx08 ? it's a 4558 opamp.
> > > > > > btw, I now see that I had to replace Rx36 with a slightly
> > > different
> > > > > value because even after the machine is warm enough, with
the
> > > > > original value the related VCO still cannot get tuned with
the
> > > other
> > > > > oscillators, not matter how you set the VCO tuning trimmers.
> > > > > > Thanks again.
> > > > > > --- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, Johannes Hausensteiner
> > > <johau@g...>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >>Hi,
> > > > >>
> > > > >>The caps are Cx10 ... where x is the voice number. On the
> > > schematics
> > > > >>only voice #7 is drawn in detail, so you can see C710.
Maybe
> it
> > > is
> > > > > > not
> > > > > >>the cap but the accompanying resistor (R739), or the
demux
> (IC8).
> > > > >>
> > > > >>This is a great machine. Two really independant VCOs!
> > > > >>
> > > > >>Johannes
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>gil_we wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >>>Thanks very much !
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>The tuning is bad on both VCO1 and VCO2 of that oscillator
>
> >
> > > > (although > >>>it seems more extreme on VCO2).
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>I uploaded the schematics diagram for the VCO board to the
> > > > files >>>section - what would be the caps to check on that
one ?
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>Thanks again.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>--- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, Johannes Hausensteiner > >
> > > > <johau@g...> > >>>wrote:
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>>Hi,
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>I only have the schematics for the MK I; which I do not
> know > > whether
> > > > > >>>>it is similar to the MK II. Which VCO has the problem?
Is
> it
> > > VCO-
> > > > > > 1 or
> > > > > >>>>VCO-2 or both? If it is both then have a look at the
hold
> >
> > > > > capacitors > >>>>after the VCO CV demux IC15 (a 4051) on
> > > > KLM-301 board. These
> > > are
> > > > > > the
> > > > > >>>>caps C25 - C32.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>Good luck,
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>Johannes
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>gil_we wrote:
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>>I've been recovering this one, found in the flea market.
> > > Overall
> > > > > > it > >>>>>had about 8-9 different faults that I fixed,
> > > > leaving two > > problems.
> > > > > >>>>>The first is a bad SSM2056 chip which I need to find.
The
> > > second
> > > > > > i > >>>>>probably inherent in the discrete ciruit of the
> > > > second > > oscillator.
> > > > > >>>>>Upon powering it up, that particular oscillator will
be
> > > > out of > > tune, > >>>>>till it gets to its max. internal
> > > > temperature where the tuning > > of > >>>>>that VCO is geting
> > > > more or less - stable.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>All other oscillators are immediately in tune, no matter
> what
> > > is
> > > > > > the > >>>>>temperatue inside the machine.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>I, of course, tried to figure out what the bad component
> is
> > > > by >>>>>blowing with a straw on each and each of the
suspected
> >
> > > > > compnents, but > >>>>>blowing on every component on the
> circuit
> > > > of that oscialltor > > which > >>>>>seems to be pitch
related,
> > > > seems to effect the pitch.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>I also tried to switch transistors between the bad
> > > > oscillator > > and > >>>>>another (working one) but the
problem
> > > > persisted.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>Does anyone have any other idea / direction ?
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>Thanks
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > PolySix "Digiest" Page:
> > > > http://www.acc.umu.se/~amber/Poly6 > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > PolySix "Digiest" Page: http://www.acc.umu.se/~amber/Poly6
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > .sig
> > -Chromatest J. Pantsmaker
> > http://www.chromatest.net
> >
>

> ooops... the multileg component is IC6, not R40
>
>
> --- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, "gil_we" <gil_we@y...> wrote:
>
>>Thanks guys !
>>
>>There was something strange going on.... After writing my previous
>>mail I ran over a few components with a "freeze" spray, among them
>>the transistors and caps area of both VCOs on the problematic
>>oscillator and the R40 component (what looks like a mutli-leg
>>transistor but I guess is a multi-resistor ?)
>>
>>Suddenly, two things happen (which still happen if I turn the
>
> machine
>
>>off for a few hours and back on... regardless internal temperature):
>>
>>1. The bad oscillator is no more out of tune !
>>
>>2. The entire scale has changed - i.e the gap between each note to
>>the one that follows it is larger (there is more than one octave
>
> gap
>
>>between C4 and C5 for example)
>>
>>But that made me recall that when I got hte unit there was not
>
> tuning
>
>>issue at all, and the bad tuning problem on the second oscillator
>>only started once I started servicing the machine)
>>
>>Strange huh ?
>>
>>Could it be R40 that is defective ? does that make sense ?
>>
>>Thanks again !
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>--- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, "Chromatest J. Pantsmaker"
>><chromatest@g...> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>replace them again? Sometimes (and it will always bite you) you
>>
>>put in a bunk part as a replacement.. then you spend all week
>
> looking
>
>>for something else, saying "it can't be X! I replaced X"..
>>
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: gil_we <gil_we@y...>
>>>To: PolySix@yahoogroups.com
>>>Subject: [PolySix] Re: Trident MKII - one oscillator is out of
>
> tune
>
>>>Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 21:51:15 -0000
>>>
>>>
>>>>You know what ?... now I relaize I replaced IC8 and ICx11 as
>>
>>well !
>>
>>>>Any other idea you can think of ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>--- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, Johannes Hausensteiner
>>
>><johau@g...>
>>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>If you already replaced Rx39/Cx10 then the only thing in
>
> common
>
>>>>>for both VCOs in one voice is ICx11 (TL072). THe value of
>
> Rx39
>
>>>>>is not very critical unless it is very different to the
>
> nominal
>
>>>>>value of 1k
>>>>>
>>>>> > By IC8 are you refering to ICx08 ? it's a 4558 opamp.
>>>>>No, I mean IC8, which is a 4051. It is common to all voices;
>
> it
>
>>>>>demultiplexes the CV for the VCOs
>>>>>
>>>>>Johannes
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>gil_we wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Thanks !
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The Cx10 and Rx39 have been already replaced to no avail.
>>>>>>>By IC8 are you refering to ICx08 ? it's a 4558 opamp.
>>>>>>>btw, I now see that I had to replace Rx36 with a slightly
>>>>
>>>>different
>>>>
>>>>>>value because even after the machine is warm enough, with
>
> the
>
>>>>>>original value the related VCO still cannot get tuned with
>
> the
>
>>>>other
>>>>
>>>>>>oscillators, not matter how you set the VCO tuning trimmers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Thanks again.
>>>>>>>--- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, Johannes Hausensteiner
>>>>
>>>><johau@g...>
>>>>
>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Hi,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The caps are Cx10 ... where x is the voice number. On the
>>>>
>>>>schematics
>>>>
>>>>>>>only voice #7 is drawn in detail, so you can see C710.
>
> Maybe
>
>>it
>>
>>>>is
>>>>
>>>>>>>not
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>the cap but the accompanying resistor (R739), or the
>
> demux
>
>>(IC8).
>>
>>>>>>>This is a great machine. Two really independant VCOs!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Johannes
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>gil_we wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Thanks very much !
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>The tuning is bad on both VCO1 and VCO2 of that oscillator
>>
>>>>>(although > >>>it seems more extreme on VCO2).
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I uploaded the schematics diagram for the VCO board to the
>>>>>
>>>>>files >>>section - what would be the caps to check on that
>
> one ?
>
>>>>>>>>Thanks again.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>--- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, Johannes Hausensteiner > >
>>>>>
>>>>><johau@g...> > >>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Hi,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I only have the schematics for the MK I; which I do not
>>
>>know > > whether
>>
>>>>>>>>>>it is similar to the MK II. Which VCO has the problem?
>
> Is
>
>>it
>>
>>>>VCO-
>>>>
>>>>>>>1 or
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>VCO-2 or both? If it is both then have a look at the
>
> hold
>
>>>>>>capacitors > >>>>after the VCO CV demux IC15 (a 4051) on
>>>>>
>>>>>KLM-301 board. These
>>>>
>>>>are
>>>>
>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>caps C25 - C32.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Good luck,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Johannes
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>gil_we wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>I've been recovering this one, found in the flea market.
>>>>
>>>>Overall
>>>>
>>>>>>>it > >>>>>had about 8-9 different faults that I fixed,
>>>>>
>>>>>leaving two > > problems.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>The first is a bad SSM2056 chip which I need to find.
>
> The
>
>>>>second
>>>>
>>>>>>>i > >>>>>probably inherent in the discrete ciruit of the
>>>>>
>>>>>second > > oscillator.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Upon powering it up, that particular oscillator will
>
> be
>
>>>>>out of > > tune, > >>>>>till it gets to its max. internal
>>>>>temperature where the tuning > > of > >>>>>that VCO is geting
>>>>>more or less - stable.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>All other oscillators are immediately in tune, no matter
>>
>>what
>>
>>>>is
>>>>
>>>>>>>the > >>>>>temperatue inside the machine.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>I, of course, tried to figure out what the bad component
>>
>>is
>>
>>>>>by >>>>>blowing with a straw on each and each of the
>
> suspected
>
>>>>>>compnents, but > >>>>>blowing on every component on the
>>
>>circuit
>>
>>>>>of that oscialltor > > which > >>>>>seems to be pitch
>
> related,
>
>>>>>seems to effect the pitch.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>I also tried to switch transistors between the bad
>>>>>
>>>>>oscillator > > and > >>>>>another (working one) but the
>
> problem
>
>>>>>persisted.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Does anyone have any other idea / direction ?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Thanks
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>PolySix "Digiest" Page:
>>>>>
>>>>>http://www.acc.umu.se/~amber/Poly6 > Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> > > > >
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>PolySix "Digiest" Page: http://www.acc.umu.se/~amber/Poly6
>>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>.sig
>>>-Chromatest J. Pantsmaker
>>>http://www.chromatest.net
>>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> PolySix "Digiest" Page: http://www.acc.umu.se/~amber/Poly6
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> >>the one that follows it is larger (there is more than one octave
> >
> > gap
> >
> >>between C4 and C5 for example)
> >>
> >>But that made me recall that when I got hte unit there was not
> >
> > tuning
> >
> >>issue at all, and the bad tuning problem on the second oscillator
> >>only started once I started servicing the machine)
> >>
> >>Strange huh ?
> >>
> >>Could it be R40 that is defective ? does that make sense ?
> >>
> >>Thanks again !
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>--- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, "Chromatest J. Pantsmaker"
> >><chromatest@g...> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>replace them again? Sometimes (and it will always bite you) you
> >>
> >>put in a bunk part as a replacement.. then you spend all week
> >
> > looking
> >
> >>for something else, saying "it can't be X! I replaced X"..
> >>
> >>>
> >>>----- Original Message -----
> >>>From: gil_we <gil_we@y...>
> >>>To: PolySix@yahoogroups.com
> >>>Subject: [PolySix] Re: Trident MKII - one oscillator is out of
> >
> > tune
> >
> >>>Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 21:51:15 -0000
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>You know what ?... now I relaize I replaced IC8 and ICx11 as
> >>
> >>well !
> >>
> >>>>Any other idea you can think of ?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>--- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, Johannes Hausensteiner
> >>
> >><johau@g...>
> >>
> >>>>wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>If you already replaced Rx39/Cx10 then the only thing in
> >
> > common
> >
> >>>>>for both VCOs in one voice is ICx11 (TL072). THe value of
> >
> > Rx39
> >
> >>>>>is not very critical unless it is very different to the
> >
> > nominal
> >
> >>>>>value of 1k
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > By IC8 are you refering to ICx08 ? it's a 4558 opamp.
> >>>>>No, I mean IC8, which is a 4051. It is common to all voices;
> >
> > it
> >
> >>>>>demultiplexes the CV for the VCOs
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Johannes
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>gil_we wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>Thanks !
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>The Cx10 and Rx39 have been already replaced to no avail.
> >>>>>>>By IC8 are you refering to ICx08 ? it's a 4558 opamp.
> >>>>>>>btw, I now see that I had to replace Rx36 with a slightly
> >>>>
> >>>>different
> >>>>
> >>>>>>value because even after the machine is warm enough, with
> >
> > the
> >
> >>>>>>original value the related VCO still cannot get tuned with
> >
> > the
> >
> >>>>other
> >>>>
> >>>>>>oscillators, not matter how you set the VCO tuning trimmers.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Thanks again.
> >>>>>>>--- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, Johannes Hausensteiner
> >>>>
> >>>><johau@g...>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>Hi,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>The caps are Cx10 ... where x is the voice number. On the
> >>>>
> >>>>schematics
> >>>>
> >>>>>>>only voice #7 is drawn in detail, so you can see C710.
> >
> > Maybe
> >
> >>it
> >>
> >>>>is
> >>>>
> >>>>>>>not
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>the cap but the accompanying resistor (R739), or the
> >
> > demux
> >
> >>(IC8).
> >>
> >>>>>>>This is a great machine. Two really independant VCOs!
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Johannes
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>gil_we wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>Thanks very much !
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>The tuning is bad on both VCO1 and VCO2 of that oscillator
> >>
> >>>>>(although > >>>it seems more extreme on VCO2).
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>I uploaded the schematics diagram for the VCO board to the
> >>>>>
> >>>>>files >>>section - what would be the caps to check on that
> >
> > one ?
> >
> >>>>>>>>Thanks again.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>--- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, Johannes Hausensteiner > >
> >>>>>
> >>>>><johau@g...> > >>>wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>Hi,
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>I only have the schematics for the MK I; which I do not
> >>
> >>know > > whether
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>it is similar to the MK II. Which VCO has the problem?
> >
> > Is
> >
> >>it
> >>
> >>>>VCO-
> >>>>
> >>>>>>>1 or
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>VCO-2 or both? If it is both then have a look at the
> >
> > hold
> >
> >>>>>>capacitors > >>>>after the VCO CV demux IC15 (a 4051) on
> >>>>>
> >>>>>KLM-301 board. These
> >>>>
> >>>>are
> >>>>
> >>>>>>>the
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>caps C25 - C32.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>Good luck,
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>Johannes
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>gil_we wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>I've been recovering this one, found in the flea market.
> >>>>
> >>>>Overall
> >>>>
> >>>>>>>it > >>>>>had about 8-9 different faults that I fixed,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>leaving two > > problems.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>The first is a bad SSM2056 chip which I need to find.
> >
> > The
> >
> >>>>second
> >>>>
> >>>>>>>i > >>>>>probably inherent in the discrete ciruit of the
> >>>>>
> >>>>>second > > oscillator.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>Upon powering it up, that particular oscillator will
> >
> > be
> >
> >>>>>out of > > tune, > >>>>>till it gets to its max. internal
> >>>>>temperature where the tuning > > of > >>>>>that VCO is geting
> >>>>>more or less - stable.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>All other oscillators are immediately in tune, no matter
> >>
> >>what
> >>
> >>>>is
> >>>>
> >>>>>>>the > >>>>>temperatue inside the machine.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>I, of course, tried to figure out what the bad component
> >>
> >>is
> >>
> >>>>>by >>>>>blowing with a straw on each and each of the
> >
> > suspected
> >
> >>>>>>compnents, but > >>>>>blowing on every component on the
> >>
> >>circuit
> >>
> >>>>>of that oscialltor > > which > >>>>>seems to be pitch
> >
> > related,
> >
> >>>>>seems to effect the pitch.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>I also tried to switch transistors between the bad
> >>>>>
> >>>>>oscillator > > and > >>>>>another (working one) but the
> >
> > problem
> >
> >>>>>persisted.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>Does anyone have any other idea / direction ?
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>Thanks
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>PolySix "Digiest" Page:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>http://www.acc.umu.se/~amber/Poly6 > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> > > > >
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>PolySix "Digiest" Page: http://www.acc.umu.se/~amber/Poly6
> >>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>.sig
> >>>-Chromatest J. Pantsmaker
> >>>http://www.chromatest.net
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > PolySix "Digiest" Page: http://www.acc.umu.se/~amber/Poly6
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

--- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, "gil_we" <gil_we@y...> wrote:
>
> Now I see what happened... I guess that was a big mistake using the
> freeze spray on such a sensitive circuit.
>
> The problem is that I already even readjusted VR3, VR4 and VR5...
So
> even if and when the bad componet gets to its natural state the
synth
> will be out of tune ! shouldn't have touched it from the start ...
>
> Johannes,
>
> 1. can the dual transistor get back to its initial, natural state ?
> Maybe if I let the machine work a few days (so the components
> can "recover" from the freeze harm - maybe by warming up ?)
>
> 2. Do VR4 (Antilog Freq.), VR3 (Antilog Width) and VR5 (Antilog
> Offset) act like the VR6 (Hi Tune), VR7 (Mid Tune) and VR5 (Low
> Tune) - on the Polysix new-version ? So basically if and when the
> components are ok, I should be able to tune it the same way you
tune
> a Polysix ?
>
> 3. Last question - should the TH1 heat sensor be located just over
> the multitransistor in general ? it was leaning over the circuit
> board when I check it out, just realized it is a sesnor...
>
> Thanks very much, I SHOULD fix that one it's one of a monster
> beautifully sounding instrument !
>
>
>
> --- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, Johannes Hausensteiner <johau@g...>
> wrote:
> >
> > The "multileg component" probably is the dual transistor for the
> > antilog amplifier. This is one of the most critical stages in
terms
> > of note frequency. It has an exponential transfer characteristic,
> > which means that a tiny variation at the input may cause a huge at
> > the output. Applying a freeze spray definitely will have a large
> > effect on the tune of the instrument, but all voices are affected
> > equally, because the antilog conversion is applied to the multi-
> > plexed CV.
> >
> > gil_we wrote:
> > > ooops... the multileg component is IC6, not R40
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, "gil_we" <gil_we@y...> wrote:
> > >
> > >>Thanks guys !
> > >>
> > >>There was something strange going on.... After writing my
> previous
> > >>mail I ran over a few components with a "freeze" spray, among
> them
> > >>the transistors and caps area of both VCOs on the problematic
> > >>oscillator and the R40 component (what looks like a mutli-leg
> > >>transistor but I guess is a multi-resistor ?)
> > >>
> > >>Suddenly, two things happen (which still happen if I turn the
> > >
> > > machine
> > >
> > >>off for a few hours and back on... regardless internal
> temperature):
> > >>
> > >>1. The bad oscillator is no more out of tune !
> > >>
> > >>2. The entire scale has changed - i.e the gap between each note
> to
> > >>the one that follows it is larger (there is more than one
octave
> > >
> > > gap
> > >
> > >>between C4 and C5 for example)
> > >>
> > >>But that made me recall that when I got hte unit there was not
> > >
> > > tuning
> > >
> > >>issue at all, and the bad tuning problem on the second
oscillator
> > >>only started once I started servicing the machine)
> > >>
> > >>Strange huh ?
> > >>
> > >>Could it be R40 that is defective ? does that make sense ?
> > >>
> > >>Thanks again !
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>--- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, "Chromatest J. Pantsmaker"
> > >><chromatest@g...> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>replace them again? Sometimes (and it will always bite you)
you
> > >>
> > >>put in a bunk part as a replacement.. then you spend all week
> > >
> > > looking
> > >
> > >>for something else, saying "it can't be X! I replaced X"..
> > >>
> > >>>
> > >>>----- Original Message -----
> > >>>From: gil_we <gil_we@y...>
> > >>>To: PolySix@yahoogroups.com
> > >>>Subject: [PolySix] Re: Trident MKII - one oscillator is out of
> > >
> > > tune
> > >
> > >>>Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 21:51:15 -0000
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>You know what ?... now I relaize I replaced IC8 and ICx11 as
> > >>
> > >>well !
> > >>
> > >>>>Any other idea you can think of ?
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>--- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, Johannes Hausensteiner
> > >>
> > >><johau@g...>
> > >>
> > >>>>wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>If you already replaced Rx39/Cx10 then the only thing in
> > >
> > > common
> > >
> > >>>>>for both VCOs in one voice is ICx11 (TL072). THe value of
> > >
> > > Rx39
> > >
> > >>>>>is not very critical unless it is very different to the
> > >
> > > nominal
> > >
> > >>>>>value of 1k
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > By IC8 are you refering to ICx08 ? it's a 4558 opamp.
> > >>>>>No, I mean IC8, which is a 4051. It is common to all
voices;
> > >
> > > it
> > >
> > >>>>>demultiplexes the CV for the VCOs
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>Johannes
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>gil_we wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>Thanks !
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>The Cx10 and Rx39 have been already replaced to no avail.
> > >>>>>>>By IC8 are you refering to ICx08 ? it's a 4558 opamp.
> > >>>>>>>btw, I now see that I had to replace Rx36 with a slightly
> > >>>>
> > >>>>different
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>value because even after the machine is warm enough, with
> > >
> > > the
> > >
> > >>>>>>original value the related VCO still cannot get tuned with
> > >
> > > the
> > >
> > >>>>other
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>oscillators, not matter how you set the VCO tuning trimmers.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>Thanks again.
> > >>>>>>>--- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, Johannes Hausensteiner
> > >>>>
> > >>>><johau@g...>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>wrote:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>Hi,
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>The caps are Cx10 ... where x is the voice number. On the
> > >>>>
> > >>>>schematics
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>only voice #7 is drawn in detail, so you can see C710.
> > >
> > > Maybe
> > >
> > >>it
> > >>
> > >>>>is
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>not
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>the cap but the accompanying resistor (R739), or the
> > >
> > > demux
> > >
> > >>(IC8).
> > >>
> > >>>>>>>This is a great machine. Two really independant VCOs!
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>Johannes
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>gil_we wrote:
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>Thanks very much !
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>The tuning is bad on both VCO1 and VCO2 of that
oscillator
> > >>
> > >>>>>(although > >>>it seems more extreme on VCO2).
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>I uploaded the schematics diagram for the VCO board to
the
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>files >>>section - what would be the caps to check on that
> > >
> > > one ?
> > >
> > >>>>>>>>Thanks again.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>--- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, Johannes Hausensteiner >
>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>><johau@g...> > >>>wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>Hi,
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>I only have the schematics for the MK I; which I do not
> > >>
> > >>know > > whether
> > >>
> > >>>>>>>>>>it is similar to the MK II. Which VCO has the problem?
> > >
> > > Is
> > >
> > >>it
> > >>
> > >>>>VCO-
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>1 or
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>VCO-2 or both? If it is both then have a look at the
> > >
> > > hold
> > >
> > >>>>>>capacitors > >>>>after the VCO CV demux IC15 (a 4051) on
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>KLM-301 board. These
> > >>>>
> > >>>>are
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>the
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>caps C25 - C32.
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>Good luck,
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>Johannes
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>gil_we wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>I've been recovering this one, found in the flea market.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>Overall
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>it > >>>>>had about 8-9 different faults that I fixed,
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>leaving two > > problems.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>The first is a bad SSM2056 chip which I need to find.
> > >
> > > The
> > >
> > >>>>second
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>i > >>>>>probably inherent in the discrete ciruit of the
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>second > > oscillator.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>Upon powering it up, that particular oscillator will
> > >
> > > be
> > >
> > >>>>>out of > > tune, > >>>>>till it gets to its max. internal
> > >>>>>temperature where the tuning > > of > >>>>>that VCO is
geting
> > >>>>>more or less - stable.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>All other oscillators are immediately in tune, no
matter
> > >>
> > >>what
> > >>
> > >>>>is
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>the > >>>>>temperatue inside the machine.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>I, of course, tried to figure out what the bad
component
> > >>
> > >>is
> > >>
> > >>>>>by >>>>>blowing with a straw on each and each of the
> > >
> > > suspected
> > >
> > >>>>>>compnents, but > >>>>>blowing on every component on the
> > >>
> > >>circuit
> > >>
> > >>>>>of that oscialltor > > which > >>>>>seems to be pitch
> > >
> > > related,
> > >
> > >>>>>seems to effect the pitch.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>I also tried to switch transistors between the bad
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>oscillator > > and > >>>>>another (working one) but the
> > >
> > > problem
> > >
> > >>>>>persisted.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>Does anyone have any other idea / direction ?
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>Thanks
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>PolySix "Digiest" Page:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>http://www.acc.umu.se/~amber/Poly6 > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> > > > >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>PolySix "Digiest" Page: http://www.acc.umu.se/~amber/Poly6
> > >>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>.sig
> > >>>-Chromatest J. Pantsmaker
> > >>>http://www.chromatest.net
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > PolySix "Digiest" Page: http://www.acc.umu.se/~amber/Poly6
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>

> >>>another (working one) but the problem persisted.
> >>>
> >>>Does anyone have any other idea / direction ?
> >>>
> >>>Thanks
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>

--- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, "gil_we" <gil_we@y...> wrote:
>
> Juhannes, back to the second VCO tuning problem,
> are the caps you mentioned suppsed to be of special make or
> temperature resistant, ot does just about any polyester caps will
do ?
>
>
>
>
> --- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, Johannes Hausensteiner <johau@g...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > The caps are Cx10 ... where x is the voice number. On the
schematics
> > only voice #7 is drawn in detail, so you can see C710. Maybe it
is
> not
> > the cap but the accompanying resistor (R739), or the demux (IC8).
> >
> > This is a great machine. Two really independant VCOs!
> >
> > Johannes
> >
> >
> > gil_we wrote:
> > > Thanks very much !
> > >
> > > The tuning is bad on both VCO1 and VCO2 of that oscillator
> (although
> > > it seems more extreme on VCO2).
> > >
> > > I uploaded the schematics diagram for the VCO board to the
files
> > > section - what would be the caps to check on that one ?
> > >
> > > Thanks again.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, Johannes Hausensteiner
> <johau@g...>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >>Hi,
> > >>
> > >>I only have the schematics for the MK I; which I do not know
> whether
> > >>it is similar to the MK II. Which VCO has the problem? Is it
VCO-
> 1 or
> > >>VCO-2 or both? If it is both then have a look at the hold
> capacitors
> > >>after the VCO CV demux IC15 (a 4051) on KLM-301 board. These
are
> the
> > >>caps C25 - C32.
> > >>
> > >>Good luck,
> > >>
> > >>Johannes
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>gil_we wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>I've been recovering this one, found in the flea market.
Overall
> it
> > >>>had about 8-9 different faults that I fixed, leaving two
> problems.
> > >>>
> > >>>The first is a bad SSM2056 chip which I need to find. The
second
> i
> > >>>probably inherent in the discrete ciruit of the second
> oscillator.
> > >>>
> > >>>Upon powering it up, that particular oscillator will be out of
> tune,
> > >>>till it gets to its max. internal temperature where the tuning
> of
> > >>>that VCO is geting more or less - stable.
> > >>>
> > >>>All other oscillators are immediately in tune, no matter what
is
> the
> > >>>temperatue inside the machine.
> > >>>
> > >>>I, of course, tried to figure out what the bad component is by
> > >>>blowing with a straw on each and each of the suspected
> compnents, but
> > >>>blowing on every component on the circuit of that oscialltor
> which
> > >>>seems to be pitch related, seems to effect the pitch.
> > >>>
> > >>>I also tried to switch transistors between the bad oscillator
> and
> > >>>another (working one) but the problem persisted.
> > >>>
> > >>>Does anyone have any other idea / direction ?
> > >>>
> > >>>Thanks
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>