I will have a guy more or less in the business, looking at my
Trident, next Wednesday...i am not able to advance more on this
alone..anyway many thanks to all who tried to help, i will let the
group know about any progresses...
--- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, "gil_we" <gil_we@...> wrote:
>
> When you switch the Manual mode on - do this problems still occur ?
>
>
> --- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, "stagerhodes" <stagerhodes@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi , i answered your message but it seems it never came to the
> group,
> > i dont know why. This week has been and it will be a very busy
one
> > for me, so i have no time to mess arount the Trident. Next week i
> > will be back to it and will probably need more help from you
> > guys...is there any tests i can make to try the several modules
(i
> > already have the tips from Johannes regarding the VCO 2 #6 voice
> > problem), but, since i suspect the VCF problem (some times the
unit
> > plays without distortion but when this happens the VCF controls
> just
> > don't work) well, probably has to do with the programmer i don't
> > know, so, if i have some test procedures i can do it myself or
pass
> > them to my friend who is a technician.
> > regards,
> > Art
> >
> >
> > --- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, "gil_we" <gil_we@> wrote:
> > >
> > > DO NOT TOUCH IC12 !
> > >
> > > If you're not looking for any further trouble... Johannes and
me
> > were
> > > just trying to solve a problem on my Trident on which that
> > particular
> > > component was responsible... a 40-70$ priced unit and very hard
> to
> > > get. It is responsible for the overall scaling and tuning of
the
> > > instrument. It is supposed to get hot indeed and has a built
> > > in "oven" which keeps it in a particular, stable temperature.
My
> > > problem started when I tried to use a freezing spray to trying
to
> > > find the cause for another problem, and unfortunately sprayed
> some
> > > onver it as well.... so stay away from it ;)
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, "stagerhodes" <stagerhodes@>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Good tips which i will try for sure. I noticed the IC12 (10
leg
> > > > transistor type) in the signal board , will heat very
quickly,
> is
> > > > this normal ? Since the Trident MK II has the outside
> dissipator
> > > > does the MK I need some extra thing to keep temperature
> > > controlled ?
> > > > The power supply triacs are heating as hell too...
> > > > oh, by the way...when for seconds the distortion is gone i
have
> a
> > > > clue on how good this thing sounds...humm...great ! I can't
> wait
> > to
> > > > have this beast in good shape..thanks!!!
> > > >
> > > > Johannes, the preset piano 1 started ok without deep changes
in
> > the
> > > > trim pots, it seems it was when i pressed the phillips screw
> > driver
> > > > in order to turn the pot it started ok, but, after the
> distortion
> > > > came back i could't reproduce it again same way...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, Johannes Hausensteiner
<johau@>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > >
> > > > > So the preset thing is clear; probably a "genius" cranked
the
> > > > trimpots
> > > > > and made the sounds unusable.
> > > > >
> > > > > For the distortion: try to find out on what this depends. I
> > would
> > > > start
> > > > > with a simple setting (e.g.only VCO-1, filter all
> open, "gate"
> > > EG,
> > > > etc.)
> > > > > Then play around with single parameters and notice under
when
> > the
> > > > > distortion/modulation starts. Maybe you can find out this
way
> > > > where
> > > > > is comes from.
> > > > > Further check whether it is on all 8 voices. If yes, then
> > > probably
> > > > the
> > > > > reason is in a common part (e.g. overall synth gain
> > circuit, ...)
> > > > >
> > > > > Voice #6: check IC9 of unit #6. On pin1 there should be the
> VCO-
> > 2
> > > > > waveform regardless of On/Off setting on the control panel.
> > > > IC9/pin13
> > > > > is the control signal, it should be high when VCO-2 is on,
> low
> > > > when
> > > > > off. IC9/pin2 is the switched VCO-2 wave.
> > > > >
> > > > > Good luck!
> > > > >
> > > > > Johannes
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > stagerhodes wrote:
> > > > > > ok...i think i made some progress here...when trying to
> > adjust
> > > > VR27
> > > > > > in the presets board (with piano 1 , as Johannes told)
> > suddenly
> > > > i
> > > > > > heard the sound loud and clean...after a bit the
distortion
> > > came
> > > > > > again...well, in this process when it sounded ok i
changed
> > > from
> > > > > > piano 1 to manual and the synth was there without
> > > > > > distortion...but...no VCF working (just the FINE Cutoff
> was
> > > > > > working)...so i believe my problem is related with the
> > > > filter...i
> > > > > > will do more testing here, in the mean time if someone
can
> > give
> > > > some
> > > > > > clues based on this it would be great..thanks to all !
> > > > > > Oh..almost forgot...i found the VCO 2 not working in the
> > voice
> > > > #6.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, "gil_we" <gil_we@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >>Also, can you see any broken or "cold" solder joint on
this
> > > > board ?
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>--- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, "gil_we" <gil_we@> wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>>The Flanger board (KLM-291) is also the mixer board, in
> case
> > > it
> > > > got
> > > > > >>>defective it makes sense to me that the synth problem
may
> be
> > > > related
> > > > > >>>to a defect on that board as well.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>Do you get that problem only, but only for the synth
> > sound ?
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>Does it sound distorted on both VCOs ? You can eliminte
> VCO1
> > > > and only
> > > > > >>>listen to VCO2 and vice versa ?
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>--- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, "stagerhodes"
> <stagerhodes@>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>>thank you !...well, the controls are working, only it
> makes
> > a
> > > > kind of
> > > > > >>>>distortion which is more audible in the 16' and 8'
> octaves,
> > > it
> > > > > >>>>reduces it in the 4' ( a distortion with some kind of
> > > > modulation ),
> > > > > >>>>the bad effect will be more noticed too if one set the
EG
> > > > Intensity
> > > > > >>>>to center or full counterclockwise (negative envelope).
I
> > > > tried to
> > > > > >>>>memorize 2 patches and the programmer seems ok, the
> patches
> > > > are
> > > > > >>>>there, so i just don't know what to do next...
> > > > > >>>>I must say that it seems the top panel was (may be the
> unit
> > > > crashed
> > > > > >>>>in the floor or something) bend in the master tune pot
> > area,
> > > > after a
> > > > > >>>>close look i saw one of the screws fixing the Flanger
> > board ,
> > > > in its
> > > > > >>>>place with a small PCB fragment attached, and the board
> > broke
> > > > in one
> > > > > >>>>of its edges (screw area). I took out the flanger board
> and
> > > it
> > > > seems
> > > > > >>>>no damage in any of the pcb traces...anyway does any
> > > > malfunction in
> > > > > >>>>this board reflects in the synth section sound (with
> > flanger
> > > > turned
> > > > > >>>>off) ??
> > > > > >>>>Oh, the preset sounds are not ok, just a short beep
(low
> > > > frequency),
> > > > > >>>>the strings and brass are OK
> > > > > >>>>regards
> > > > > >>>>Art
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>--- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, Johannes Hausensteiner
> > > > <johau@> wrote:
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>>The PCB looks OK; no damage due to leaked battery as
in
> > the
> > > > Polysix
> > > > > >>>>>is visible. According to the pics (silkscreen) the
> > battery
> > > > which is
> > > > > >>>>>mounted seems to be original or genuine replacement.
So
> > I
> > > > would not
> > > > > >>>>>suspect a threat like in the P6. It largely depends
on
> > the
> > > > battery
> > > > > >>>>>make, which seems to be good quality in this unit. So
as
> > > long
> > > > as the
> > > > > >>>>>battery retains sufficient voltage (more than 2.5V) I
> > would
> > > > not
> > > > > >>>>>worry about it.
> > > > > >>>>>This does not surprise me, since the Trident MK I
> > programmer
> > > > and the
> > > > > >>>>>MK II programmer are completely different. MK I was
> > designed
> > > > before
> > > > > >>>>>Polysix, MK II afterwards or the same time obviously
> using
> > > > the same
> > > > > >>>>>technique in both (edit mode, etc). Amazingly they did
> not
> > > > use a
> > > > > >>>>>microprocessor for the patch manager in the MK I but
an
> > > > all-hardware
> > > > > >>>>>type of design.
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>Regarding your original problem: it may be (even
likely)
> > > that
> > > > the
> > > > > >>>>>battery is dead or at least discharged and all memory
> > > patches
> > > > are gone
> > > > > >>>>>producing no or meaningless sound. Are the knobs and
> > > switches
> > > > working
> > > > > >>>>>in "Manual" mode? How do the presets ("Piano
1", "Piano
> > 2",
> > > > "Clav") sound?
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>According to the schematics there are on KLM-317 three
> > sets
> > > > of pots
> > > > > >>>>>for the presets; you may set your favourite sound
> patches
> > > > there.
> > > > > >>>>>(The Yamaha CS-60 and CS-80 had a similar kind
of "Patch
> > > > Memory"..)
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>Johannes
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>stagerhodes wrote:
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>Hi,
> > > > > >>>>>>just uploaded 8 photos of the board, hope they're ok
> now
> > > for
> > > > you to
> > > > > >>>>>>try to help me.
> > > > > >>>>>>regards,
> > > > > >>>>>>Art
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>--- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, "gil_we" <gil_we@>
> wrote:
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>you're welcome,
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>I'm interested to see how corroded is the board - if
> any
> > > at
> > > > all.
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>--- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, "stagerhodes"
> > > > <stagerhodes@y...> wrote:
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>Hi Gil,
> > > > > >>>>>>>>well, i'm not at home right now, but the battery is
> > from
> > > > Sanyo, and
> > > > > >>>>>>>>the big lettering is CADNICA (nickel cadmium).
> > > > > >>>>>>>>I will take better pictures tonight and post them
> > > > (deleting the ones
> > > > > >>>>>>>>there now)...well, what can i say besides thank you
> for
> > > > your
> > > > > >>>>>>>>support ...
> > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>--- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, "gil_we"
> <gil_we@y...>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>It's very hard to see anything on those
pictures...
> I
> > do
> > > > see though
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>that the battery was already replaced ?? looks
like
> a
> > > > lithium battery
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>what does it say on it ?
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>Try to provide close up high resolution pictures
of
> > the
> > > > programmer
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>--- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, "stagerhodes"
> > > > <stagerhodes@y...> wrote:
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>I think i have another problem here, not related
> with
> > > > battery leak,
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>i just uploaded some photos , not very good
> quality,
> > > but
> > > > the battery
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>seems to be sealed, and the programmer is working
> > > > despite some press
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>memory recall buttons need cleaning or replacing.
> > > Well ,
> > > > the synth
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>sound has some distortion and sounds like ring
> > > > modulation, this is
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>minimized if the negative/positive VCF EG
Intensity
> > is
> > > > full
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>clockwise. The preset sounds are like no envelope
> > > > sustain, just a
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>short low (frequency) click...well, i'm not a
> > keyboard
> > > > technician,
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>just trying to make something here, otherwise i
> will
> > > > have to take
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>the synth and schematics to a friend who is a
> > > technician
> > > > (works in
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>musical instruments, not vintage ones but...) and
> try
> > > to
> > > > put this
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>synth to play...have to say the brass and strings
> > > > sections are ok,
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>the split keyboard function switches and behavior
> are
> > > > ok, bend and
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>mod ok...well...lets see
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>--- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, "gil_we"
> > <gil_we@y...>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>Thanks,
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>I believe that this type of info should be
shared
> > all
> > > > over the net.
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>The Trident's schematics are very rare - took me
> > weeks
> > > > to get them;
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>however, here they are.
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>I got my Trident in disasterous condition,
nothing
> > > > worked, battery
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>corrosion, bad chips, everything you may think
> of...
> > > > Got it work
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>finally after doing the refurbishment step by
> step.
> > > > This is an
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>incredible machine, one of the best ever made
and
> > > > definately Korg's
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>best Polysynth.
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>Let us know how you proceed, also if you can
take
> > some
> > > > pictues of the
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>board it would help.
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>--- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, "stagerhodes"
> > > > <stagerhodes@y...> wrote:
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>Oh, i'm very pleased regarding this group ,
many
> > > > thanks for your
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>reply and the schematics beeing available for
> > > > download... i will
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>unmount the Trident may be tonight or tomorrow
> > night
> > > > and will post my
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>sights inside. This is one of my favorite
> > (regarding
> > > > it's wood design
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>and the sound, particularly the synth section)
> > > > keyboards from korg ,
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>and i can say i tried almost them all at the
time
> > > they
> > > > were beeing
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>produced since i was working demoing them in a
> > shop.
> > > > So now is the
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>time for me to have some of them in full
working
> > > > condiction...
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>Art
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>--- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, "gil_we"
> > > <gil_we@y...>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>I didn't fully understand how the synth
section
> > acts
> > > > on this machine...
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>Also, is there corrosion (green colored) on
the
> > > > battery and near it ?
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>Are there bad (black colored)traces ? are the
> > signal
> > > > and synth boards
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>correded as well on some areas ?
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>Take extra care not to hurt anyting that
works.
> > > > Particually, stay
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>away from the 10 leg transistor type component
> at
> > > the
> > > > bottom left
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>side of right bottom (signal) board. This one
is
> > > > extremely sensitive
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>to extreme temperature changes and is very
rare
> > and
> > > > expensive to get.
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>You can use the schematics I uploaded to the
> Files
> > > > section.
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>--- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, "stagerhodes"
> > > > <stagerhodes@y...> wrote:
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Hi,
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>i just bought a Trident MK I in which the
poly
> > > synth
> > > > section is
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>malfunctioning, i am almost certain that the
> > > problem
> > > > is the battery
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>question , and the leakage from it. It seems
> the
> > > > tune is ok, all notes
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>are sounding (brass and strings sections), in
> the
> > > > synth section one can
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>ear some sound (it is possible to ear the
notes
> > > > pitch, but with some
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>strange effects in them) and the memory
section
> > is
> > > > not working which
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>leads me to the battery question. Is there
any
> > > > special care i must have
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>in this model ?
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>regards
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Art
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Portugal
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>PolySix "Digiest" Page:
> > > http://www.acc.umu.se/~amber/Poly6
> > > > > >>>>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > PolySix "Digiest" Page:
http://www.acc.umu.se/~amber/Poly6
> > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>Message
Re: Trident question
2006-02-13 by stagerhodes