Discussion about the Korg PolySix synthesizer

Hi , i answered your message but it seems it never came to the group, 
i dont know why. This week has been and it will be a very busy one 
for me, so i have no time to mess arount the Trident. Next week i 
will be back to it and will probably need more help from you 
guys...is there any tests i can make to try the several modules (i 
already have the tips from Johannes regarding the VCO 2 #6 voice 
problem), but, since i suspect the VCF problem (some times the unit 
plays without distortion but when this happens the VCF controls just 
don't work) well, probably has to do with the programmer i don't 
know, so, if i have some test procedures i can do it myself or pass 
them to my friend who is a technician.
regards,
Art


--- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, "gil_we" <gil_we@...> wrote:
>
> DO NOT TOUCH IC12 !
> 
> If you're not looking for any further trouble... Johannes and me 
were 
> just trying to solve a problem on my Trident on which that 
particular 
> component was responsible... a 40-70$ priced unit and very hard to 
> get. It is responsible for the overall scaling and tuning of the 
> instrument. It is supposed to get hot indeed and has a built 
> in "oven" which keeps it in a particular, stable temperature. My 
> problem started when I tried to use a freezing spray to trying to 
> find the cause for another problem, and unfortunately sprayed some 
> onver it as well.... so stay away from it ;)
> 
> 
> --- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, "stagerhodes" <stagerhodes@> wrote:
> >
> > Good tips which i will try for sure. I noticed the IC12 (10 leg 
> > transistor type) in the signal board , will heat very quickly, is 
> > this normal ? Since the Trident MK II has the outside dissipator 
> > does the MK I need some extra thing to keep temperature 
> controlled ? 
> > The power supply triacs are heating as hell too... 
> > oh, by the way...when for seconds the distortion is gone i have a 
> > clue on how good this thing sounds...humm...great ! I can't wait 
to 
> > have this beast in good shape..thanks!!! 
> >  
> > Johannes, the preset piano 1 started ok without deep changes in 
the 
> > trim pots, it seems it was when i pressed the phillips screw 
driver 
> > in order to turn the pot it started ok, but, after the distortion 
> > came back i could't reproduce it again same way... 
> >  
> >  
> > --- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, Johannes Hausensteiner <johau@> 
> > wrote: 
> > > 
> > > Hi, 
> > >  
> > > So the preset thing is clear; probably a "genius" cranked the 
> > trimpots 
> > > and made the sounds unusable. 
> > >  
> > > For the distortion: try to find out on what this depends. I 
would 
> > start 
> > > with a simple setting (e.g.only VCO-1, filter all open, "gate" 
> EG, 
> > etc.) 
> > > Then play around with single parameters and notice under when 
the 
> > > distortion/modulation starts. Maybe you can find out this way 
> > where 
> > > is comes from. 
> > > Further check whether it is on all 8 voices. If yes, then 
> probably 
> > the 
> > > reason is in a common part (e.g. overall synth gain 
circuit, ...) 
> > >  
> > > Voice #6: check IC9 of unit #6. On pin1 there should be the VCO-
2 
> > > waveform regardless of On/Off setting on the control panel. 
> > IC9/pin13 
> > > is the control signal, it should be high when VCO-2 is on, low 
> > when 
> > > off. IC9/pin2 is the switched VCO-2 wave. 
> > >  
> > > Good luck! 
> > >  
> > > Johannes 
> > >  
> > >  
> > >  
> > > stagerhodes wrote: 
> > > > ok...i think i made some progress here...when trying to 
adjust 
> > VR27  
> > > > in the presets board (with piano 1 , as Johannes told) 
suddenly 
> > i  
> > > > heard the sound loud and clean...after a bit the distortion 
> came  
> > > > again...well, in this process when it sounded ok i changed 
> from  
> > > > piano 1 to manual and the synth was there without  
> > > > distortion...but...no VCF working (just the FINE Cutoff was  
> > > > working)...so i believe my problem is related with the 
> > filter...i  
> > > > will do more testing here, in the mean time if someone can 
give 
> > some  
> > > > clues based on this it would be great..thanks to all !  
> > > > Oh..almost forgot...i found the VCO 2 not working in the 
voice 
> > #6.  
> > > >   
> > > >  
> > > > --- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, "gil_we" <gil_we@> wrote: 
> > > >  
> > > >>Also, can you see any broken or "cold" solder joint on this 
> > board ?  
> > > >>  
> > > >> 
> > > >>--- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, "gil_we" <gil_we@> wrote: 
> > > >> 
> > > >>>The Flanger board (KLM-291) is also the mixer board, in case 
> it 
> > got   
> > > >>>defective it makes sense to me that the synth problem may be 
> > related   
> > > >>>to a defect on that board as well.  
> > > >>>  
> > > >>>Do you get that problem only, but only for the synth 
sound ?  
> > > >>>  
> > > >>>Does it sound distorted on both VCOs ? You can eliminte VCO1 
> > and only   
> > > >>>listen to VCO2 and vice versa ? 
> > > >>>  
> > > >>>  
> > > >>>--- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, "stagerhodes" <stagerhodes@> 
> > wrote: 
> > > >>>  
> > > >>>>thank you !...well, the controls are working, only it makes 
a 
> > kind of   
> > > >>>>distortion which is more audible in the 16' and 8' octaves, 
> it   
> > > >>>>reduces it in the 4' ( a distortion with some kind of 
> > modulation ),   
> > > >>>>the bad effect will be more noticed too if one set the EG 
> > Intensity   
> > > >>>>to center or full counterclockwise (negative envelope). I 
> > tried to   
> > > >>>>memorize 2 patches and the programmer seems ok, the patches 
> > are  
> > > >>>>there, so i just don't know what to do next...  
> > > >>>>I must say that it seems the top panel was (may be the unit 
> > crashed   
> > > >>>>in the floor or something) bend in the master tune pot 
area, 
> > after a   
> > > >>>>close look i saw one of the screws fixing the Flanger 
board , 
> > in its   
> > > >>>>place with a small PCB fragment attached, and the board 
broke 
> > in one   
> > > >>>>of its edges (screw area). I took out the flanger board and 
> it 
> > seems   
> > > >>>>no damage in any of the pcb traces...anyway does any 
> > malfunction in   
> > > >>>>this board reflects in the synth section sound (with 
flanger 
> > turned   
> > > >>>>off) ??  
> > > >>>>Oh, the preset sounds are not ok, just a short beep (low 
> > frequency),   
> > > >>>>the strings and brass are OK  
> > > >>>>regards  
> > > >>>>Art 
> > > >>>>  
> > > >>>>  
> > > >>>>--- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, Johannes Hausensteiner 
> > <johau@> wrote: 
> > > >>>> 
> > > >>>>>The PCB looks OK; no damage due to leaked battery as in 
the 
> > Polysix  
> > > >>>>>is visible.  According to the pics (silkscreen) the 
battery 
> > which is  
> > > >>>>>mounted seems to be original or genuine replacement.  So 
I  
> > would not  
> > > >>>>>suspect a threat like in the P6.  It largely depends on 
the 
> > battery  
> > > >>>>>make, which seems to be good quality in this unit. So as 
> long 
> > as the  
> > > >>>>>battery retains sufficient voltage (more than 2.5V) I 
would 
> > not  
> > > >>>>>worry about it.  
> > > >>>>>This does not surprise me, since the Trident MK I 
programmer 
> > and the  
> > > >>>>>MK II programmer are completely different. MK I was 
designed 
> > before  
> > > >>>>>Polysix, MK II afterwards or the same time obviously using 
> > the same  
> > > >>>>>technique in both (edit mode, etc). Amazingly they did not 
> > use a  
> > > >>>>>microprocessor for the patch manager in the MK I but an 
> > all-hardware  
> > > >>>>>type of design.  
> > > >>>>>  
> > > >>>>>Regarding your original problem: it may be (even likely) 
> that 
> > the  
> > > >>>>>battery is dead or at least discharged and all memory 
> patches 
> > are gone  
> > > >>>>>producing no or meaningless sound. Are the knobs and 
> switches 
> > working  
> > > >>>>>in "Manual" mode? How do the presets ("Piano 1", "Piano 
2", 
> > "Clav") sound?  
> > > >>>>>  
> > > >>>>>According to the schematics there are on KLM-317 three 
sets 
> > of pots  
> > > >>>>>for the presets; you may set your favourite sound patches 
> > there.  
> > > >>>>>(The Yamaha CS-60 and CS-80 had a similar kind of "Patch 
> > Memory"..)  
> > > >>>>>  
> > > >>>>>Johannes 
> > > >>>>>  
> > > >>>>>  
> > > >>>>>stagerhodes wrote: 
> > > >>>>> 
> > > >>>>>>Hi,  
> > > >>>>>>just uploaded 8 photos of the board, hope they're ok now 
> for 
> > you to   
> > > >>>>>>try to help me.  
> > > >>>>>>regards,  
> > > >>>>>>Art 
> > > >>>>>> 
> > > >>>>>>  
> > > >>>>>>--- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, "gil_we" <gil_we@> wrote: 
> > > >>>>>> 
> > > >>>>>>>you're welcome,  
> > > >>>>>>> 
> > > >>>>>>>I'm interested to see how corroded is the board - if any 
> at 
> > all. 
> > > >>>>>>>  
> > > >>>>>>> 
> > > >>>>>>>--- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, "stagerhodes" 
> > <stagerhodes@y...> wrote: 
> > > >>>>>>>  
> > > >>>>>>>>Hi Gil,  
> > > >>>>>>>>well, i'm not at home right now, but the battery is 
from 
> > Sanyo, and   
> > > >>>>>>>>the big lettering is CADNICA (nickel cadmium).  
> > > >>>>>>>>I will take better pictures tonight and post them 
> > (deleting the ones   
> > > >>>>>>>>there now)...well, what can i say besides thank you for 
> > your  
> > > >>>>>>>>support ... 
> > > >>>>>>>> 
> > > >>>>>>>> 
> > > >>>>>>>>--- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, "gil_we" <gil_we@y...> 
> > wrote: 
> > > >>>>>>>>  
> > > >>>>>>>>>It's very hard to see anything on those pictures... I 
do 
> > see though   
> > > >>>>>>>>>that the battery was already replaced ?? looks like a 
> > lithium battery   
> > > >>>>>>>>>what does it say on it ?  
> > > >>>>>>>>> 
> > > >>>>>>>>>Try to provide close up high resolution pictures of 
the 
> > programmer 
> > > >>>>>>>>>  
> > > >>>>>>>>> 
> > > >>>>>>>>>--- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, "stagerhodes" 
> > <stagerhodes@y...> wrote: 
> > > >>>>>>>>>  
> > > >>>>>>>>>>I think i have another problem here, not related with 
> > battery leak,   
> > > >>>>>>>>>>i just uploaded some photos , not very good quality, 
> but 
> > the battery   
> > > >>>>>>>>>>seems to be sealed, and the programmer is working 
> > despite some press   
> > > >>>>>>>>>>memory recall buttons need cleaning or replacing. 
> Well , 
> > the synth   
> > > >>>>>>>>>>sound has some distortion and sounds like ring 
> > modulation, this is   
> > > >>>>>>>>>>minimized if the negative/positive VCF EG Intensity 
is 
> > full   
> > > >>>>>>>>>>clockwise. The preset sounds are like no envelope 
> > sustain, just a   
> > > >>>>>>>>>>short low (frequency) click...well, i'm not a 
keyboard 
> > technician,  
> > > >>>>>>>>>>just trying to make something here, otherwise i will 
> > have to take  
> > > >>>>>>>>>>the synth and schematics to a friend who is a 
> technician 
> > (works in   
> > > >>>>>>>>>>musical instruments, not vintage ones but...) and try 
> to 
> > put this   
> > > >>>>>>>>>>synth to play...have to say the brass and strings 
> > sections are ok,    
> > > >>>>>>>>>>the split keyboard function switches and behavior are 
> > ok, bend and   
> > > >>>>>>>>>>mod ok...well...lets see 
> > > >>>>>>>>>> 
> > > >>>>>>>>>>  
> > > >>>>>>>>>>--- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, "gil_we" 
<gil_we@y...> 
> > wrote: 
> > > >>>>>>>>>>  
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>Thanks,   
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>  
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>I believe that this type of info should be shared 
all 
> > over the net.    
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>The Trident's schematics are very rare - took me 
weeks 
> > to get them;   
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>however, here they are.   
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>  
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>I got my Trident in disasterous condition, nothing 
> > worked, battery    
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>corrosion, bad chips, everything you may think of... 
> > Got it work    
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>finally after doing the refurbishment step by step. 
> > This is an    
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>incredible machine, one of the best ever made and 
> > definately Korg's    
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>best Polysynth.   
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>  
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>Let us know how you proceed, also if you can take 
some 
> > pictues of the    
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>board it would help. 
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>  
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>  
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>--- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, "stagerhodes" 
> > <stagerhodes@y...> wrote: 
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>  
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>Oh, i'm very pleased regarding this group , many 
> > thanks for your   
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>reply and the schematics beeing available for 
> > download...  i will   
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>unmount the Trident may be tonight or tomorrow 
night 
> > and will post my   
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>sights inside. This is one of my favorite 
(regarding 
> > it's wood design   
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>and the sound, particularly the synth section) 
> > keyboards from korg ,   
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>and i can say i tried almost them all at the time 
> they 
> > were beeing   
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>produced since i was working demoing them in a 
shop. 
> > So now is the   
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>time for me to have some of them in full working 
> > condiction...  
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>Art 
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>  
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>  
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>--- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, "gil_we" 
> <gil_we@y...> 
> > wrote: 
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>  
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>I didn't fully understand how the synth section 
acts 
> > on this machine...  
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>Also, is there corrosion (green colored) on the 
> > battery and near it ?  
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>Are there bad (black colored)traces ? are the 
signal 
> > and synth boards   
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>correded as well on some areas ?  
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>  
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>Take extra care not to hurt anyting that works. 
> > Particually, stay   
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>away from the 10 leg transistor type component at 
> the 
> > bottom left   
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>side of right bottom (signal) board. This one is 
> > extremely sensitive   
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>to extreme temperature changes and is very rare 
and 
> > expensive to get.  
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>  
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>You can use the schematics I uploaded to the Files 
> > section. 
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>  
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>  
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>--- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, "stagerhodes" 
> > <stagerhodes@y...> wrote: 
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>  
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Hi,  
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>i just bought a Trident MK I in which the poly 
> synth 
> > section is   
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>malfunctioning, i am almost certain that the 
> problem 
> > is the battery   
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>question , and the leakage from it. It seems the 
> > tune is ok, all notes   
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>are sounding (brass and strings sections), in the 
> > synth section one can   
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>ear some sound (it is possible to ear the notes 
> > pitch, but with some   
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>strange effects in them) and the memory section 
is 
> > not working which   
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>leads me to the battery question. Is there any 
> > special care i must have   
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>in this model ?  
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>regards  
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Art  
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Portugal 
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> 
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> 
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>  
> > > >>>>>>>>>> 
> > > >>>>>>>>>  
> > > >>>>>>>> 
> > > >>>>>>>  
> > > >>>>>> 
> > > >>>>>>  
> > > >>>>>>  
> > > >>>>>>PolySix "Digiest" Page: 
> http://www.acc.umu.se/~amber/Poly6   
> > > >>>>>>Yahoo! Groups Links  
> > > >>>>>>  
> > > >>>>>>  
> > > >>>>>  
> > > >>>>   
> > > >>>  
> > > >>  
> > > >  
> > > >  
> > > > PolySix "Digiest" Page: http://www.acc.umu.se/~amber/Poly6  
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links 
> > > >  
> > > >  
> > > >  
> > > >   
> > > > 
> > >
> >
>