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Tape echo and spring reverb

Tape echo and spring reverb

2010-10-06 by tspit74@comcast.net

I grabbed a Multivox MX-312 Multi Echo off Craigslist recently and finally hooked it up to #857. Holy shit! Nothing compares to tape echo and spring reverb. The 312 is an off brand knockoff of the Roland RE-201 Space Echo with some additional features. Particularly "swell reverb" which adds a swelling echo to the reverb signal. Lush doesn't begin to describe it. My advice: If you haven't tried your tron thru an old tape echo/spring reverb, you haven't lived. Tape to tape is a beautiful sound.

Now back to playing some Starless...

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Tape echo and spring reverb

2010-10-06 by lsf5275@aol.com

I never seem to be able to find these things except at ridiculous prices.  

 
In a message dated 10/6/2010 11:29:21 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
tspit74@comcast.net writes:

 
 
 
I grabbed a  Multivox MX-312 Multi Echo off Craigslist recently and finally 
hooked it up to  #857. Holy shit! Nothing compares to tape echo and spring 
reverb. The 312 is  an off brand knockoff of the Roland RE-201 Space Echo 
with some additional  features. Particularly "swell reverb" which adds a 
swelling echo to the reverb  signal. Lush doesn't begin to describe it. My 
advice: If you haven't tried  your tron thru an old tape echo/spring reverb, you 
haven't lived. Tape to tape  is a beautiful sound.  


Now back to playing some Starless...

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Tape echo and spring reverb

2010-10-06 by Daniel Swanson

Cost me $400 locally. I could have talked him down a bit. But what for? In the long run it doesn't matter and I sure ain't complainin' about the sound. If you come across one, do it.
On Oct 6, 2010, at 10:31 AM, lsf5275@aol.com wrote:


I never seem to be able to find these things except at ridiculous prices.
In a message dated 10/6/2010 11:29:21 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, tspit74@comcast.net writes:

I grabbed a Multivox MX-312 Multi Echo off Craigslist recently and finally hooked it up to #857. Holy shit! Nothing compares to tape echo and spring reverb. The 312 is an off brand knockoff of the Roland RE-201 Space Echo with some additional features. Particularly "swell reverb" which adds a swelling echo to the reverb signal. Lush doesn't begin to describe it. My advice: If you haven't tried your tron thru an old tape echo/spring reverb, you haven't lived. Tape to tape is a beautiful sound.

Now back to playing some Starless...



Re: Tape echo and spring reverb

2010-10-10 by Sean

I've never run across a real spring or plate unit. If anyone has one, would you do a side by side comparison of spring and plate reverb for the Melly? Thanks.

-Sean

--- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, tspit74@... wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> I grabbed a Multivox MX-312 Multi Echo off Craigslist recently and finally hooked it up to #857. Holy shit! Nothing compares to tape echo and spring reverb. The 312 is an off brand knockoff of the Roland RE-201 Space Echo with some additional features. Particularly "swell reverb" which adds a swelling echo to the reverb signal. Lush doesn't begin to describe it. My advice: If you haven't tried your tron thru an old tape echo/spring reverb, you haven't lived. Tape to tape is a beautiful sound. 
> 
> 
> Now back to playing some Starless...
>

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Tape echo and spring reverb

2010-10-10 by william Beith

I build plate reverberation units and hold a patent on one under the name Brick 
Audio. 


If anyone has an interest I can send a pdf of the manual. 

Alas....I do not yet have a Mellotron to demo through it. I suspect that any 
studio smaller than Abbey Road  (which had its own chambers)  used EMT 240 plate 
reverbs in their studio. So most 60's European Mellotron recordings with reverb 
could be assumed to be plate reverb.

If American and recorded in the Capitol or Sunset studio's they also had their 
own chambers. Everyone else uded plates, generally EMT 240's.

A 240 was a 3X6 foot steel plate. The Brick Audio plates are 3X3, 3X5 and 3X7 
stainless steel eliminating the rust issues. The driver is bonded to the plate 
itself eliminating the need to calibrate/setup.

Bill  




________________________________
From: Sean <fourtytwominds@yahoo.com>
To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, October 10, 2010 3:18:10 PM
Subject: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Tape echo and spring reverb

  
I've never run across a real spring or plate unit. If anyone has one, would you 
do a side by side comparison of spring and plate reverb for the Melly? Thanks.

-Sean

--- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, tspit74@... wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> I grabbed a Multivox MX-312 Multi Echo off Craigslist recently and finally 
>hooked it up to #857. Holy shit! Nothing compares to tape echo and spring 
>reverb. The 312 is an off brand knockoff of the Roland RE-201 Space Echo with 
>some additional features. Particularly "swell reverb" which adds a swelling echo 
>to the reverb signal. Lush doesn't begin to describe it. My advice: If you 
>haven't tried your tron thru an old tape echo/spring reverb, you haven't lived. 
>Tape to tape is a beautiful sound. 
>
> 
> 
> Now back to playing some Starless...
>

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Tape echo and spring reverb

2010-10-11 by gino wong

Univox echos can be had cheap., kind've basic. If you are lucky enough to get a tape echo, don't forget to use back lubricated tape. It can still be had and a $50 reel will last a decade or more, it's the same stuff they fill broadcast carts with, you don't need Roland loops. Lately I like to use shorter loops, I change them according to a schedule, so i have been bulking and cutting down 8 Track tapes, this is the cheapest and easiest method of getting back coated tape. It is good 1/4" hifi tape. A tape echo with a fresh tape sounds amazing. The RE201D is a good device and so is the old Chandler solid state echo emulator.

Another great and cheap source of tape echo is reel to reel tape decks. Set the playback source to tape and input to mic or line and then adjust the echo with input volume and to a lesser degree with speed. if you take the physical output and crosspatch it into the input you can get a mild cross channel bounce. All you need is a fresh roll of tape. The stocks of reel tape is the best made in the past 35 years save Emitape whis has always been good.

Anybody who needs a reel of 1/4" let me know, I can hook you up.


gino


On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 6:38 PM, william Beith <wbeith@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

I build plate reverberation units and hold a patent on one under the name Brick Audio.
If anyone has an interest I can send a pdf of the manual.
Alas....I do not yet have a Mellotron to demo through it. I suspect that any studio smaller than Abbey Road (which had its own chambers) used EMT 240 plate reverbs in their studio. So most 60's European Mellotron recordings with reverb could be assumed to be plate reverb.
If American and recorded in the Capitol or Sunset studio's they also had their own chambers. Everyone else uded plates, generally EMT 240's.
A 240 was a 3X6 foot steel plate. The Brick Audio plates are 3X3, 3X5 and 3X7 stainless steel eliminating the rust issues. The driver is bonded to the plate itself eliminating the need to calibrate/setup.
Bill

Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: Sean <fourtytwominds@yahoo.com>
To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, October 10, 2010 3:18:10 PM
Subject: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Tape echo and spring reverb

I've never run across a real spring or plate unit. If anyone has one, would you do a side by side comparison of spring and plate reverb for the Melly? Thanks.

-Sean

--- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, tspit74@... wrote:
>
> I grabbed a Multivox MX-312 Multi Echo off Craigslist recently and finally hooked it up to #857. Holy shit! Nothing compares to tape echo and spring reverb. The 312 is an off brand knockoff of the Roland RE-201 Space Echo with some additional features. Particularly "swell reverb" which adds a swelling echo to the reverb signal. Lush doesn't begin to describe it. My advice: If you haven't tried your tron thru an old tape echo/spring reverb, you haven't lived. Tape to tape is a beautiful sound.
>
>
> Now back to playing some Starless...
>


Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Tape echo and spring reverb

2010-10-11 by Thomas C. Doncourt

I've heard of the Brick plates before. Never played the tron through one
but would like to.
I've recorded with an EMT gold plate- the old Delta studio had one. It was
warm, the best reverb I have heard for mellotron to date. I've always used
a spring reverb- had a Premier in the 70's and one made byamp builder Tim
Van right now. The current one is tube and has a warm tone but a
relatively short time. In the 70's if someone had showed me the Alessis
midiverb I would have thrown my spring unit in the trash. That would have
been a mistake. Now I'm thinking of finding an EMT somewhere or trying out
the Brick!
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Univox echos can be had cheap., kind've basic.   If you are lucky enough
> to
> get a tape echo, don't forget to use back lubricated tape.  It can still
> be
> had and a $50 reel will last a decade or more, it's the same stuff they
> fill
> broadcast carts with, you don't need Roland loops. Lately I like to use
> shorter loops, I change them according to a schedule, so i have been
> bulking
> and cutting down 8 Track tapes, this is the cheapest and easiest method of
> getting back coated tape. It is good 1/4" hifi tape. A tape echo with a
> fresh tape sounds amazing. The RE201D is a good device and so is the old
> Chandler solid state echo emulator.
>
> Another great and cheap source of tape echo is reel to reel tape decks.
> Set
> the playback source to tape and input to mic or line  and then adjust the
> echo with input volume and to a lesser degree with speed.  if you take the
> physical output and crosspatch it into the input you can get a mild cross
> channel bounce.  All you need is a fresh roll of tape. The stocks of reel
> tape is the best made in the past 35 years save Emitape whis has always
> been
> good.
>
> Anybody who needs a reel of 1/4" let me know, I can hook you up.
>
>
> gino
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 6:38 PM, william Beith <wbeith@sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> I build plate reverberation units and hold a patent on one under the
>> name
>> Brick Audio.
>>
>> If anyone has an interest I can send a pdf of the manual.
>>
>> Alas....I do not yet have a Mellotron to demo through it. I suspect that
>> any studio smaller than Abbey Road  (which had its own chambers)  used
>> EMT
>> 240 plate reverbs in their studio. So most 60's European Mellotron
>> recordings with reverb could be assumed to be plate reverb.
>>
>> If American and recorded in the Capitol or Sunset studio's they also had
>> their own chambers. Everyone else uded plates, generally EMT 240's.
>>
>> A 240 was a 3X6 foot steel plate. The Brick Audio plates are 3X3, 3X5
>> and
>> 3X7 stainless steel eliminating the rust issues. The driver is bonded to
>> the
>> plate itself eliminating the need to calibrate/setup.
>>
>> Bill
>>
>>  ------------------------------
>> *From:* Sean <fourtytwominds@yahoo.com>
>> *To:* newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
>> *Sent:* Sun, October 10, 2010 3:18:10 PM
>> *Subject:* [newmellotrongroup] Re: Tape echo and spring reverb
>>
>>
>>
>> I've never run across a real spring or plate unit. If anyone has one,
>> would
>> you do a side by side comparison of spring and plate reverb for the
>> Melly?
>> Thanks.
>>
>> -Sean
>>
>> --- In
>> newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com<newmellotrongroup%40yahoogroups.com>,
>> tspit74@... wrote:
>> >
>> > I grabbed a Multivox MX-312 Multi Echo off Craigslist recently and
>> finally hooked it up to #857. Holy shit! Nothing compares to tape echo
>> and
>> spring reverb. The 312 is an off brand knockoff of the Roland RE-201
>> Space
>> Echo with some additional features. Particularly "swell reverb" which
>> adds a
>> swelling echo to the reverb signal. Lush doesn't begin to describe it.
>> My
>> advice: If you haven't tried your tron thru an old tape echo/spring
>> reverb,
>> you haven't lived. Tape to tape is a beautiful sound.
>> >
>> >
>> > Now back to playing some Starless...
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Tape echo and spring reverb

2010-10-11 by william Beith

For the Brick Audio plate we chose stainless steel to avoid the rust problem 
associated with the cold rolled steel of the EMT plates. 


I worked for Gibson guitar in their string division and through that experience 
became aware of the effect metal composition has on strings. So when I found I 
had a choose in types of stainless, I went with a high nickel content which gave 
a better high end. Thus to flatten the sound we had to roll off the high end 
which increased the signal to noise ratio.

Today with the proliferation of outboard mic pre-amps, I am making the plates 
passive, which allows the user to use their mic pres for send and return. I had 
had great luck using the send section of various boards (Tascam, Mackie, 
Soundcraft) to drive the plate, with a mic pre on the return to warm it up.

Another trick with the plate, a spring or a tape machine functioning as a reverb 
is to insert a delay before the reverb and send only the delayed signal. Gives 
the same response as the live chamber that Abbey Road has. That great Beatles 
vocal delayed cross channel vocal wash.

If anyone is interested please contact me off group to discuss acquisition of a 
plate.

Bill




________________________________
From: Thomas C. Doncourt <tomdcour@amnh.org>
To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
Cc: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, October 10, 2010 9:54:34 PM
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Tape echo and spring reverb

  
I've heard of the Brick plates before. Never played the tron through one
but would like to.
I've recorded with an EMT gold plate- the old Delta studio had one. It was
warm, the best reverb I have heard for mellotron to date. I've always used
a spring reverb- had a Premier in the 70's and one made byamp builder Tim
Van right now. The current one is tube and has a warm tone but a
relatively short time. In the 70's if someone had showed me the Alessis
midiverb I would have thrown my spring unit in the trash. That would have
been a mistake. Now I'm thinking of finding an EMT somewhere or trying out
the Brick!
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Univox echos can be had cheap., kind've basic. If you are lucky enough
> to
> get a tape echo, don't forget to use back lubricated tape. It can still
> be
> had and a $50 reel will last a decade or more, it's the same stuff they
> fill
> broadcast carts with, you don't need Roland loops. Lately I like to use
> shorter loops, I change them according to a schedule, so i have been
> bulking
> and cutting down 8 Track tapes, this is the cheapest and easiest method of
> getting back coated tape. It is good 1/4" hifi tape. A tape echo with a
> fresh tape sounds amazing. The RE201D is a good device and so is the old
> Chandler solid state echo emulator.
>
> Another great and cheap source of tape echo is reel to reel tape decks.
> Set
> the playback source to tape and input to mic or line and then adjust the
> echo with input volume and to a lesser degree with speed. if you take the
> physical output and crosspatch it into the input you can get a mild cross
> channel bounce. All you need is a fresh roll of tape. The stocks of reel
> tape is the best made in the past 35 years save Emitape whis has always
> been
> good.
>
> Anybody who needs a reel of 1/4" let me know, I can hook you up.
>
>
> gino
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 6:38 PM, william Beith <wbeith@sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> I build plate reverberation units and hold a patent on one under the
>> name
>> Brick Audio.
>>
>> If anyone has an interest I can send a pdf of the manual.
>>
>> Alas....I do not yet have a Mellotron to demo through it. I suspect that
>> any studio smaller than Abbey Road (which had its own chambers) used
>> EMT
>> 240 plate reverbs in their studio. So most 60's European Mellotron
>> recordings with reverb could be assumed to be plate reverb.
>>
>> If American and recorded in the Capitol or Sunset studio's they also had
>> their own chambers. Everyone else uded plates, generally EMT 240's.
>>
>> A 240 was a 3X6 foot steel plate. The Brick Audio plates are 3X3, 3X5
>> and
>> 3X7 stainless steel eliminating the rust issues. The driver is bonded to
>> the
>> plate itself eliminating the need to calibrate/setup.
>>
>> Bill
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* Sean <fourtytwominds@yahoo.com>
>> *To:* newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
>> *Sent:* Sun, October 10, 2010 3:18:10 PM
>> *Subject:* [newmellotrongroup] Re: Tape echo and spring reverb
>>
>>
>>
>> I've never run across a real spring or plate unit. If anyone has one,
>> would
>> you do a side by side comparison of spring and plate reverb for the
>> Melly?
>> Thanks.
>>
>> -Sean
>>
>> --- In
>> newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com<newmellotrongroup%40yahoogroups.com>,
>> tspit74@... wrote:
>> >
>> > I grabbed a Multivox MX-312 Multi Echo off Craigslist recently and
>> finally hooked it up to #857. Holy shit! Nothing compares to tape echo
>> and
>> spring reverb. The 312 is an off brand knockoff of the Roland RE-201
>> Space
>> Echo with some additional features. Particularly "swell reverb" which
>> adds a
>> swelling echo to the reverb signal. Lush doesn't begin to describe it.
>> My
>> advice: If you haven't tried your tron thru an old tape echo/spring
>> reverb,
>> you haven't lived. Tape to tape is a beautiful sound.
>> >
>> >
>> > Now back to playing some Starless...
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>

RE: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Tape echo and spring reverb

2010-10-11 by Mark Wallis

I get a great sound from a WEM Copicat tape echo and WEM Audiomaster mixer/spring reverb. The Copicats are basic but well worth having and still comparatively inexpensive, the Audiomaster has 4 different EQ settings for the reverb and uses the same spring line as the Mellotron Mk 5, a British copy (Solasound, methinks..) of the Hammond/Accutronics types.

It's all a bit crude but works well and sounds suitably epic, or intimate.. Roland Space Echoes are fab too.

Love and Scones,

msw xx





To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: wbeith@sbcglobal.net
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2010 23:36:57 -0700
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Tape echo and spring reverb


For the Brick Audio plate we chose stainless steel to avoid the rust problem associated with the cold rolled steel of the EMT plates.
I worked for Gibson guitar in their string division and through that experience became aware of the effect metal composition has on strings. So when I found I had a choose in types of stainless, I went with a high nickel content which gave a better high end. Thus to flatten the sound we had to roll off the high end which increased the signal to noise ratio.
Today with the proliferation of outboard mic pre-amps, I am making the plates passive, which allows the user to use their mic pres for send and return. I had had great luck using the send section of various boards (Tascam, Mackie, Soundcraft) to drive the plate, with a mic pre on the return to warm it up.
Another trick with the plate, a spring or a tape machine functioning as a reverb is to insert a delay before the reverb and send only the delayed signal. Gives the same response as the live chamber that Abbey Road has. That great Beatles vocal delayed cross channel vocal wash.
If anyone is interested please contact me off group to discuss acquisition of a plate.
Bill

From: Thomas C. Doncourt
To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
Cc: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, October 10, 2010 9:54:34 PM
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Tape echo and spring reverb

I've heard of the Brick plates before. Never played the tron through one
but would like to.
I've recorded with an EMT gold plate- the old Delta studio had one. It was
warm, the best reverb I have heard for mellotron to date. I've always used
a spring reverb- had a Premier in the 70's and one made byamp builder Tim
Van right now. The current one is tube and has a warm tone but a
relatively short time. In the 70's if someone had showed me the Alessis
midiverb I would have thrown my spring unit in the trash. That would have
been a mistake. Now I'm thinking of finding an EMT somewhere or trying out
the Brick!

> Univox echos can be had cheap., kind've basic. If you are lucky enough
>; to
> get a tape echo, don't forget to use back lubricated tape. It can still
> be
> had and a $50 reel will last a decade or more, it's the same stuff they
> fill
> broadcast carts with, you don't need Roland loops. Lately I like to use
> shorter loops, I change them according to a schedule, so i have been
> bulking
> and cutting down 8 Track tapes, this is the cheapest and easiest method of
> getting back coated tape. It is good 1/4" hifi tape. A tape echo with a
> fresh tape sounds amazing. The RE201D is a good device and so is the old
> Chandler solid state echo emulator.
>
> Another great and cheap source of tape echo is reel to reel tape decks.
> Set
> the playback source to tape and input to mic or line and then adjust the
> echo with input volume and to a lesser degree with speed. if you take the
> physical output and crosspatch it into the input you can get a mild cross
> channel bounce. All you need is a fresh roll of tape. The stocks of reel
> tape is the best made in the past 35 years save Emitape whis has always
> been
> good.
>
> Anybody who needs a reel of 1/4" let me know, I can hook you up.
>
>
> gino
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 6:38 PM, william Beith <wbeith@sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> I build plate reverberation units and hold a patent on one under the
>> name
>> Brick Audio.
>>
>> If anyone has an interest I can send a pdf of the manual.
>>
>> Alas....I do not yet have a Mellotron to demo through it. I suspect that
>> any studio smaller than Abbey Road (which had its own chambers) used
>> EMT
>> 240 plate reverbs in their studio. So most 60's European Mellotron
>> recordings with reverb could be assumed to be plate reverb.
>>
>> If American and recorded in the Capitol or Sunset studio's they also had
>> their own chambers. Everyone else uded plates, generally EMT 240's.
>>
>> A 240 was a 3X6 foot steel plate. The Brick Audio plates are 3X3, 3X5
>> and
>> 3X7 stainless steel eliminating the rust issues. The driver is bonded to
>> the
>> plate itself eliminating the need to calibrate/setup.
>>
>> Bill
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* Sean <fourtytwominds@yahoo.com>
>> *To:* newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
>> *Sent:* Sun, October 10, 2010 3:18:10 PM
>> *Subject:* [newmellotrongroup] Re: Tape echo and spring reverb
>>
>>
>;>
>> I've never run across a real spring or plate unit. If anyone has one,
>> would
>> you do a side by side comparison of spring and plate reverb for the
>> Melly?
>> Thanks.
>>
>> -Sean
>>
>> --- In
>> newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com,
>> tspit74@... wrote:
>> >
>> > I grabbed a Multivox MX-312 Multi Echo off Craigslist recently and
>> finally hooked it up to #857. Holy shit! Nothing compares to tape echo
>>; and
>> spring reverb. The 312 is an off brand knockoff of the Roland RE-201
>> Space
>> Echo with some additional features. Particularly "swell reverb" which
>> adds a
>> swelling echo to the reverb signal. Lush doesn't begin to describe it.
>>; My
>> advice: If you haven't tried your tron thru an old tape echo/spring
>> reverb,
>> you haven't lived. Tape to tape is a beautiful sound.
>> >
>> >
>> > Now back to playing some Starless...
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>



Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Tape echo and spring reverb

2010-10-11 by Rick Blechta


On Oct 10, 2010, at 10:54 PM, Thomas C. Doncourt wrote:

I've recorded with an EMT gold plate- the old Delta studio had one. It was
warm, the best reverb I have heard for mellotron to date.

Same here -- and it was FABULOUS with a bit of echoplex on a separate output, I got the best sound ever. We also tried dividing the signal into 3 with a dry track as well which I think would have given some interesting results, but we needed that track for something else and rather than do a bounce to clear the track, I opted to drop the dry track.

Rick

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Tape echo and spring reverb

2010-10-11 by Pomeroy RH Ranch

Bill - fascinating stuff. Generally prefer plates for recording. For 
live, a Hammond long-spring coupled with my (noisy) DOD Analog Delay 
stomp-box is convenient.
Had the chance to see the live echo chamber at United Western in 
Hollywood that was used by the Beach Boys, etc. A pretty storied little 
room...
Vance

william Beith wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>  
> For the Brick Audio plate we chose stainless steel to avoid the rust 
> problem associated with the cold rolled steel of the EMT plates.
>  
> I worked for Gibson guitar in their string division and through that 
> experience became aware of the effect metal composition has on 
> strings. So when I found I had a choose in types of stainless, I went 
> with a high nickel content which gave a better high end. Thus to 
> flatten the sound we had to roll off the high end which increased the 
> signal to noise ratio.
>  
> Today with the proliferation of outboard mic pre-amps, I am making the 
> plates passive, which allows the user to use their mic pres for send 
> and return. I had had great luck using the send section of various 
> boards (Tascam, Mackie, Soundcraft) to drive the plate, with a mic pre 
> on the return to warm it up.
>  
> Another trick with the plate, a spring or a tape machine functioning 
> as a reverb is to insert a delay before the reverb and send only the 
> delayed signal. Gives the same response as the live chamber that Abbey 
> Road has. That great Beatles vocal delayed cross channel vocal wash.
>  
> If anyone is interested please contact me off group to discuss 
> acquisition of a plate.
>  
> Bill
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Thomas C. Doncourt <tomdcour@amnh.org>
> *To:* newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
> *Cc:* newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
> *Sent:* Sun, October 10, 2010 9:54:34 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Tape echo and spring reverb
>
>  
>
> I've heard of the Brick plates before. Never played the tron through one
> but would like to.
> I've recorded with an EMT gold plate- the old Delta studio had one. It was
> warm, the best reverb I have heard for mellotron to date. I've always used
> a spring reverb- had a Premier in the 70's and one made byamp builder Tim
> Van right now. The current one is tube and has a warm tone but a
> relatively short time. In the 70's if someone had showed me the Alessis
> midiverb I would have thrown my spring unit in the trash. That would have
> been a mistake. Now I'm thinking of finding an EMT somewhere or trying out
> the Brick!
>
> > Univox echos can be had cheap., kind've basic. If you are lucky enough
> > to
> > get a tape echo, don't forget to use back lubricated tape. It can still
> > be
> > had and a $50 reel will last a decade or more, it's the same stuff they
> > fill
> > broadcast carts with, you don't need Roland loops. Lately I like to use
> > shorter loops, I change them according to a schedule, so i have been
> > bulking
> > and cutting down 8 Track tapes, this is the cheapest and easiest 
> method of
> > getting back coated tape. It is good 1/4" hifi tape. A tape echo with a
> > fresh tape sounds amazing. The RE201D is a good device and so is the old
> > Chandler solid state echo emulator.
> >
> > Another great and cheap source of tape echo is reel to reel tape decks.
> > Set
> > the playback source to tape and input to mic or line and then adjust the
> > echo with input volume and to a lesser degree with speed. if you 
> take the
> > physical output and crosspatch it into the input you can get a mild 
> cross
> > channel bounce. All you need is a fresh roll of tape. The stocks of reel
> > tape is the best made in the past 35 years save Emitape whis has always
> > been
> > good.
> >
> > Anybody who needs a reel of 1/4" let me know, I can hook you up.
> >
> >
> > gino
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 6:38 PM, william Beith <wbeith@sbcglobal.net 
> <mailto:wbeith%40sbcglobal.net>>
> > wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> I build plate reverberation units and hold a patent on one under the
> >> name
> >> Brick Audio.
> >>
> >> If anyone has an interest I can send a pdf of the manual.
> >>
> >> Alas....I do not yet have a Mellotron to demo through it. I suspect 
> that
> >> any studio smaller than Abbey Road (which had its own chambers) used
> >> EMT
> >> 240 plate reverbs in their studio. So most 60's European Mellotron
> >> recordings with reverb could be assumed to be plate reverb.
> >>
> >> If American and recorded in the Capitol or Sunset studio's they 
> also had
> >> their own chambers. Everyone else uded plates, generally EMT 240's.
> >>
> >> A 240 was a 3X6 foot steel plate. The Brick Audio plates are 3X3, 3X5
> >> and
> >> 3X7 stainless steel eliminating the rust issues. The driver is 
> bonded to
> >> the
> >> plate itself eliminating the need to calibrate/setup.
> >>
> >> Bill
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >> *From:* Sean <fourtytwominds@yahoo.com 
> <mailto:fourtytwominds%40yahoo.com>>
> >> *To:* newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com 
> <mailto:newmellotrongroup%40yahoogroups.com>
> >> *Sent:* Sun, October 10, 2010 3:18:10 PM
> >> *Subject:* [newmellotrongroup] Re: Tape echo and spring reverb
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I've never run across a real spring or plate unit. If anyone has one,
> >> would
> >> you do a side by side comparison of spring and plate reverb for the
> >> Melly?
> >> Thanks.
> >>
> >> -Sean
> >>
> >> --- In
> >> newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com 
> <mailto:newmellotrongroup%40yahoogroups.com><newmellotrongroup%40yahoogroups.com>,
> >> tspit74@... wrote:
> >> >
> >> > I grabbed a Multivox MX-312 Multi Echo off Craigslist recently and
> >> finally hooked it up to #857. Holy shit! Nothing compares to tape echo
> >> and
> >> spring reverb. The 312 is an off brand knockoff of the Roland RE-201
> >> Space
> >> Echo with some additional features. Particularly "swell reverb" which
> >> adds a
> >> swelling echo to the reverb signal. Lush doesn't begin to describe it.
> >> My
> >> advice: If you haven't tried your tron thru an old tape echo/spring
> >> reverb,
> >> you haven't lived. Tape to tape is a beautiful sound.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Now back to playing some Starless...
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Tape echo and spring reverb

2010-10-11 by william Beith

When Brian Wilson lived near me (in St. Charles Illinois, 1998) and released his 
record Imagination, I was able to visit his house/home studio and write an 
article for Pro Sound News magazine. 


The engineer stated there were several songs in which Brian sang all of the 
vocal tracks (which sounded OK to the engineer). Then Brian sent the engineer 
with the tapes to United Western to run the results through the live chamber 
which magically transformed them into Beach Boys harmonies. 


In this case we can conclude that color added by a particular process is a 
desirable trait for recording.

There is a video of a live performance that includes some studio shots available 
on DVD. I was at the dress rehearsal the night before and based upon that 
experience I did not think the public performance would take place. An 
interesting and privileged look into an American artistic enigma. 



Bill




________________________________
From: Pomeroy RH Ranch <punchbowl4@earthlink.net>
To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, October 11, 2010 1:44:05 PM
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Tape echo and spring reverb

  
Bill - fascinating stuff. Generally prefer plates for recording. For live, a 
Hammond long-spring coupled with my (noisy) DOD Analog Delay stomp-box is 
convenient.
Had the chance to see the live echo chamber at United Western in Hollywood that 
was used by the Beach Boys, etc. A pretty storied little room...
Vance

william Beith wrote: 
  
>For the Brick Audio plate we chose stainless steel to avoid the rust problem 
>associated with the cold rolled steel of the EMT plates. 
>
>
>I worked for Gibson guitar in their string division and through that experience 
>became aware of the effect metal composition has on strings. So when I found I 
>had a choose in types of stainless, I went with a high nickel content which gave 
>a better high end. Thus to flatten the sound we had to roll off the high end 
>which increased the signal to noise ratio.
>
>Today with the proliferation of outboard mic pre-amps, I am making the plates 
>passive, which allows the user to use their mic pres for send and return. I had 
>had great luck using the send section of various boards (Tascam, Mackie, 
>Soundcraft) to drive the plate, with a mic pre on the return to warm it up.
>
>Another trick with the plate, a spring or a tape machine functioning as a reverb 
>is to insert a delay before the reverb and send only the delayed signal. Gives 
>the same response as the live chamber that Abbey Road has. That great Beatles 
>vocal delayed cross channel vocal wash.
>
>If anyone is interested please contact me off group to discuss acquisition of a 
>plate.
>
>Bill
>
>
>
>
________________________________
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: Thomas C. Doncourt <tomdcour@amnh.org>
>To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
>Cc: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
>Sent: Sun, October 10, 2010 9:54:34 PM
>Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Tape echo and spring reverb
>
>  
>I've heard of the Brick plates before. Never played the tron through one
>but would like to.
>I've recorded with an EMT gold plate- the old Delta studio had one. It was
>warm, the best reverb I have heard for mellotron to date. I've always used
>a spring reverb- had a Premier in the 70's and one made byamp builder Tim
>Van right now. The current one is tube and has a warm tone but a
>relatively short time. In the 70's if someone had showed me the Alessis
>midiverb I would have thrown my spring unit in the trash. That would have
>been a mistake. Now I'm thinking of finding an EMT somewhere or trying out
>the Brick!
>
>> Univox echos can be had cheap., kind've basic. If you are lucky enough
>> to
>> get a tape echo, don't forget to use back lubricated tape. It can still
>> be
>> had and a $50 reel will last a decade or more, it's the same stuff they
>> fill
>> broadcast carts with, you don't need Roland loops. Lately I like to use
>> shorter loops, I change them according to a schedule, so i have been
>> bulking
>> and cutting down 8 Track tapes, this is the cheapest and easiest method of
>> getting back coated tape. It is good 1/4" hifi tape. A tape echo with a
>> fresh tape sounds amazing. The RE201D is a good device and so is the old
>> Chandler solid state echo emulator.
>>
>> Another great and cheap source of tape echo is reel to reel tape decks.
>> Set
>> the playback source to tape and input to mic or line and then adjust the
>> echo with input volume and to a lesser degree with speed. if you take the
>> physical output and crosspatch it into the input you can get a mild cross
>> channel bounce. All you need is a fresh roll of tape. The stocks of reel
>> tape is the best made in the past 35 years save Emitape whis has always
>> been
>> good.
>>
>> Anybody who needs a reel of 1/4" let me know, I can hook you up.
>>
>>
>> gino
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 6:38 PM, william Beith <wbeith@sbcglobal.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I build plate reverberation units and hold a patent on one under the
>>> name
>>> Brick Audio.
>>>
>>> If anyone has an interest I can send a pdf of the manual.
>>>
>>> Alas....I do not yet have a Mellotron to demo through it. I suspect that
>>> any studio smaller than Abbey Road (which had its own chambers) used
>>> EMT
>>> 240 plate reverbs in their studio. So most 60's European Mellotron
>>> recordings with reverb could be assumed to be plate reverb.
>>>
>>> If American and recorded in the Capitol or Sunset studio's they also had
>>> their own chambers. Everyone else uded plates, generally EMT 240's.
>>>
>>> A 240 was a 3X6 foot steel plate. The Brick Audio plates are 3X3, 3X5
>>> and
>>> 3X7 stainless steel eliminating the rust issues. The driver is bonded to
>>> the
>>> plate itself eliminating the need to calibrate/setup.
>>>
>>> Bill
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From:* Sean <fourtytwominds@yahoo.com>
>>> *To:* newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
>>> *Sent:* Sun, October 10, 2010 3:18:10 PM
>>> *Subject:* [newmellotrongroup] Re: Tape echo and spring reverb
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I've never run across a real spring or plate unit. If anyone has one,
>>> would
>>> you do a side by side comparison of spring and plate reverb for the
>>> Melly?
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> -Sean
>>>
>>> --- In
>>> newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com<newmellotrongroup%40yahoogroups.com>,
>>> tspit74@... wrote:
>>> >
>>> > I grabbed a Multivox MX-312 Multi Echo off Craigslist recently and
>>> finally hooked it up to #857. Holy shit! Nothing compares to tape echo
>>> and
>>> spring reverb. The 312 is an off brand knockoff of the Roland RE-201
>>> Space
>>> Echo with some additional features. Particularly "swell reverb" which
>>> adds a
>>> swelling echo to the reverb signal. Lush doesn't begin to describe it.
>>> My
>>> advice: If you haven't tried your tron thru an old tape echo/spring
>>> reverb,
>>> you haven't lived. Tape to tape is a beautiful sound.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Now back to playing some Starless...
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Tape echo and spring reverb

2010-10-11 by tspit74@comcast.net

St. Charles? 


I took the wife and kids to the Scarecrow Festival yesterday. You still live in these parts? I'm in Woodridge. 


I know a guy who was a gopher/assistant/intern for Brian during that period. Funny stories. I love Brian Wilson and the Beach Boys. But, man, was that a weird period for him... 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "william Beith" <wbeith@sbcglobal.net> 
To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 3:31:49 PM 
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Tape echo and spring reverb 








When Brian Wilson lived near me (in St. Charles Illinois, 1998) and released his record Imagination, I was able to visit his house/home studio and write an article for Pro Sound News magazine. 

The engineer stated there were several songs in which Brian sang all of the vocal tracks (which sounded OK to the engineer). Then Brian sent the engineer with the tapes to United Western to run the results through the live chamber which magically transformed them into Beach Boys harmonies. 

In this case we can conclude that color added by a particular process is a desirable trait for recording. 

There is a video of a live performance that includes some studio shots available on DVD. I was at the dress rehearsal the night before and based upon that experience I did not think the public performance would take place. An interesting and privileged look into an American artistic enigma. 



Bill 




From: Pomeroy RH Ranch <punchbowl4@earthlink.net> 
To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Mon, October 11, 2010 1:44:05 PM 
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Tape echo and spring reverb 




Bill - fascinating stuff. Generally prefer plates for recording. For live, a Hammond long-spring coupled with my (noisy) DOD Analog Delay stomp-box is convenient. 
Had the chance to see the live echo chamber at United Western in Hollywood that was used by the Beach Boys, etc. A pretty storied little room... 
Vance 

william Beith wrote: 




For the Brick Audio plate we chose stainless steel to avoid the rust problem associated with the cold rolled steel of the EMT plates. 

I worked for Gibson guitar in their string division and through that experience became aware of the effect metal composition has on strings. So when I found I had a choose in types of stainless, I went with a high nickel content which gave a better high end. Thus to flatten the sound we had to roll off the high end which increased the signal to noise ratio. 

Today with the proliferation of outboard mic pre-amps, I am making the plates passive, which allows the user to use their mic pres for send and return. I had had great luck using the send section of various boards (Tascam, Mackie, Soundcraft) to drive the plate, with a mic pre on the return to warm it up. 

Another trick with the plate, a spring or a tape machine functioning as a reverb is to insert a delay before the reverb and send only the delayed signal. Gives the same response as the live chamber that Abbey Road has. That great Beatles vocal delayed cross channel vocal wash. 

If anyone is interested please contact me off group to discuss acquisition of a plate. 

Bill 




From: Thomas C. Doncourt <tomdcour@amnh.org> 
To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com 
Cc: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Sun, October 10, 2010 9:54:34 PM 
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Tape echo and spring reverb 




I've heard of the Brick plates before. Never played the tron through one 
but would like to. 
I've recorded with an EMT gold plate- the old Delta studio had one. It was 
warm, the best reverb I have heard for mellotron to date. I've always used 
a spring reverb- had a Premier in the 70's and one made byamp builder Tim 
Van right now. The current one is tube and has a warm tone but a 
relatively short time. In the 70's if someone had showed me the Alessis 
midiverb I would have thrown my spring unit in the trash. That would have 
been a mistake. Now I'm thinking of finding an EMT somewhere or trying out 
the Brick! 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Univox echos can be had cheap., kind've basic. If you are lucky enough 
> to 
> get a tape echo, don't forget to use back lubricated tape. It can still 
> be 
> had and a $50 reel will last a decade or more, it's the same stuff they 
> fill 
> broadcast carts with, you don't need Roland loops. Lately I like to use 
> shorter loops, I change them according to a schedule, so i have been 
> bulking 
> and cutting down 8 Track tapes, this is the cheapest and easiest method of 
> getting back coated tape. It is good 1/4" hifi tape. A tape echo with a 
> fresh tape sounds amazing. The RE201D is a good device and so is the old 
> Chandler solid state echo emulator. 
> 
> Another great and cheap source of tape echo is reel to reel tape decks. 
> Set 
> the playback source to tape and input to mic or line and then adjust the 
> echo with input volume and to a lesser degree with speed. if you take the 
> physical output and crosspatch it into the input you can get a mild cross 
> channel bounce. All you need is a fresh roll of tape. The stocks of reel 
> tape is the best made in the past 35 years save Emitape whis has always 
> been 
> good. 
> 
> Anybody who needs a reel of 1/4" let me know, I can hook you up. 
> 
> 
> gino 
> 
> 
> On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 6:38 PM, william Beith < wbeith@sbcglobal.net > 
> wrote: 
> 
>> 
>> 
>> I build plate reverberation units and hold a patent on one under the 
>> name 
>> Brick Audio. 
>> 
>> If anyone has an interest I can send a pdf of the manual. 
>> 
>> Alas....I do not yet have a Mellotron to demo through it. I suspect that 
>> any studio smaller than Abbey Road (which had its own chambers) used 
>> EMT 
>> 240 plate reverbs in their studio. So most 60's European Mellotron 
>> recordings with reverb could be assumed to be plate reverb. 
>> 
>> If American and recorded in the Capitol or Sunset studio's they also had 
>> their own chambers. Everyone else uded plates, generally EMT 240's. 
>> 
>> A 240 was a 3X6 foot steel plate. The Brick Audio plates are 3X3, 3X5 
>> and 
>> 3X7 stainless steel eliminating the rust issues. The driver is bonded to 
>> the 
>> plate itself eliminating the need to calibrate/setup. 
>> 
>> Bill 
>> 
>> ------------------------------ 
>> *From:* Sean < fourtytwominds@yahoo.com > 
>> *To:* newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com 
>> *Sent:* Sun, October 10, 2010 3:18:10 PM 
>> *Subject:* [newmellotrongroup] Re: Tape echo and spring reverb 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I've never run across a real spring or plate unit. If anyone has one, 
>> would 
>> you do a side by side comparison of spring and plate reverb for the 
>> Melly? 
>> Thanks. 
>> 
>> -Sean 
>> 
>> --- In 
>> newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com <newmellotrongroup%40yahoogroups.com>, 
>> tspit74@... wrote: 
>> > 
>> > I grabbed a Multivox MX-312 Multi Echo off Craigslist recently and 
>> finally hooked it up to #857. Holy shit! Nothing compares to tape echo 
>> and 
>> spring reverb. The 312 is an off brand knockoff of the Roland RE-201 
>> Space 
>> Echo with some additional features. Particularly "swell reverb" which 
>> adds a 
>> swelling echo to the reverb signal. Lush doesn't begin to describe it. 
>> My 
>> advice: If you haven't tried your tron thru an old tape echo/spring 
>> reverb, 
>> you haven't lived. Tape to tape is a beautiful sound. 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > Now back to playing some Starless... 
>> > 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>

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