The Mellotron Group

Chris,
 
How do you know all this? Maybe he is using Mellotron  samples. Can you 
honestly say you can tell every single time? I saw Mattias  Olsson and David 
Lundberg touring as Nectromonkey. They were playing Mellotron  samples from 
the M4000Ds and running them through tons of effects at  times. They were 
getting crazy sounds out of them. I don't care if they  sounded like Mellotrons 
every time they depressed the keys. I liked the look of  the act, the stage 
presentation, the tunes, the sounds and the fun. It was  joyous, exciting, 
and interesting. Maybe when the band that was on Kimmel  does an entire set 
the fake Mellotron spits out recognizable Mellotron sounds  from time to 
time. And If some people, especially young ones, say, "what  the hell is that 
instrument" and someone answers, "That's a Mellotron," how  is that bad? That 
inquisitive guy might want to learn more and might become a  fan of the real 
thing. For me, I think we worry about getting them to the table.  We can 
spoon feed them later. Beyond that, who really gives a shit?
 
me
 
 
In a message dated 9/1/2014 2:18:48 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com writes:

 
 
 
I don't think it's odd. I think it's about having standards about  what's 
acceptable and what isn't.  



I'm complaining that he's a twat for 'marketing'  and trying to  'sell' 
something he doesn't have. It's not just a 'box'. It's what that box  
represents.  




He's trying to fool people that he's using a real Mellotron, that he  maybe 
tracked one down, maybe bought it, maybe repaired it, and is using the  
sounds in the music - and maybe supporting the good ole' Mellotron companies  
---- none of which is true.


So it's somewhere between a laugh and an insult to those of us who did  
track down Mellotrons, spend tons of money on them, took the time to restore  
them, and basically give them new lives. A real Mellotron is a sacrifice of  
time, money, diligence, etc.



We've earned our battle scars and whatever pats on the back might go with  
that. 



This guy has 'battle scar tattoos' . He's merely another form of  poseur. 


He's not supporting Markus or Streetly. If he was, there'd be nothing to  
complain about because the money he spent on the samples from them is going 
to  a good cause - which is keeping the real machines alive. 


But he hasn't, and he probably won't.  




Why is he doing it? He's doing it for hipster cred; because he thinks it  
will make him and his band cool.
But they aren't. Because dishonesty is not cool. 



So if this action is 'suspect', then how do you believe in their music?  
album credits?  studio musicianship? 
Where is their credibility? How do you trust them? How do you believe in  
them as a band?


Maybe you can't. And if you really can't trust in them, or believe in  
them, you forget them, and find something you can believe in. 


And if you do like their music, you probably download it for free  (because 
how can you feel bad about not paying someone who is dishonest with  you to 
begin with?) 
And you save your money for albums by bands you can believe in, bands you  
can be happy and comfortable listening to.
Because you're not just buying music - you're buying into a belief system  
about the musicians themselves.
The Beatles are the probably the best example of this.


Everyone wants to see the hard worker succeed, and the cheater  fail. 




So for me this is a definition of 'tasteless' . It wouldn't be if he was  
using actual Mellotron sounds.

But he isn't. He's the Mellotron Milli Vanilli, as are the prog bands  Mike 
refers to.
And it's a fatal public relations mistake for those in the know.


I mentioned the word 'professional', but I meant a band that has  standards 
for it's music, image, art etc and wouldn't resort to this  stunt.

I wasn't necessarily referring to bands signed to labels - which are  
basically somewhat corrupt to begin with.


I meant that their day to day operations are consistently professional,  
honest and reliable - basically trying to do all the right things with good  
intentions.


No one is perfect, but there are some important shades of grey between  
black and white. 




As far as the reference to the Musicians Union - the Mellotron never  could 
replace an orchestra, just as a sampler with digital Mellotron sounds -  
never can replace a Mellotron - certainly not in a recording environment. You  
can't really argue against the laws of physics. I even can't make my two  
M400's sound like the Wakeman MK V. 
Why do orchestras still use grand pianos on stage? We don't 'need'  them.
Why do guitarists still use guitars? All the sounds are available from a  
triggered MIDI guitar. 


Because it's not just about the sound. It's about the physical nature of  
playing something. 


Still, I don't fault anyone for their choice of where they get their  
Mellotron sounds. If I knew my Mellotron was going to be subjected to severe  
risks during a live concert, then of course I would choose a Memotron or  
M4000D. They're reliable, can handle the rigors of a concert and can be  replaced 
easily. An M400?  Not so. Not always. 


Yes, the Musicians Union objected to the Mellotron and Chamberlin because  
they thought it would put musicians out of work.


Is this comparable here? 


Not really. The Mellotron and Chamberlin actually provided employment for  
these same musicians to record the tapes.
The Musicians Unions in the USA were even happy to be paid their wages  
when a Chamberlin was used in a major studio or on stage in an expensive  
lounge. They didn't even have to show up for work. Those guys were laughing  all 
the way to bank. And I'm sure the London Symphony made a fortune recording  
the Birotron sounds for 3 or 4 years.
 


So this is different. I object to this because of the dishonesty factor.  
Because it's about a machine that has bordered on extinction for the last 20  
years and has taken the efforts of several people around the world to 
prevent  that from happening.
And it has cost them precious time, money, friendships, business  
partnerships, their health, a job, a marriage. The stakes have been higher.  People 
are oblivious and insensitive to that. 
If this guy knew all that, maybe he wouldn't ponce around with his  
cabinet. 




Most people here who have a Mellotron also have a story of untold  
sacrifice, and effort, and they deserve recognition for those efforts. They  deserve 
the recognition for making a small but quality difference. 
Not some hipster/poseur who has done nothing and achieved nothing related  
to it.


At the end of the day, I don't really care that this guy is doing what  
he's doing. He's just another schmuck trying to make a dollar using the PT  
Barnum method. It doesn't cause me any direct harm. 


I'm uh..."happy with what I have to be happy with"  


But I'm also happy not be his customer.  I won't be buying this  bands CD's 
or seeing their concerts.
I like the music, but in light of everything I know about Mellotrons, I  
don't believe in what the keyboard player stands for. It doesn't feel right. I 
 can't respect him. So I don't invest in it.
I'd rather give my money for a CD or album by one of you guys. I don't  
have to question that your efforts are genuine, well intentioned and  authentic.
























On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 3:12 AM, Mike Dickson _mike.dickson@gmail.com_ 
(mailto:mike.dickson@gmail.com)   [newmellotrongroup] 
<_newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com) > wrote:


 
 
 
Ah right - I confess I never listened to all of it - just as  much as I 
could stand.  :-)  


I still think your point is odd.  You complain that he isn't using  any 
Mellotron sounds when he clearly isn't using a Mellotron.  In fact,  what you 
are essentially complaining about is the shape of the instrument he  is 
using! (Or rather the box it is contained within)


Calling it 'tasteless' is taking it a tad far as well.  As for pro  
musicians not doing this, I beg to differ.  Two or three Bloody Awful  Prog Bands 
(BAPB) from the 1980s did exactly the same thing and had a Bloody  Awful 
Sampler (BAS) within.  I know - I saw one set up in a second hand  music shop 
round these parts. And these were real bands with real  labels. 


As for this: "He's trying to  capitalize on and exploit part of someone 
else's life work.  It's  unethical. " Erm...wasn't this in essence the terms 
under which the  Musicians Union objected to the Mellotron in the first  
place? 




 


On 1 September 2014 07:11, Chris Dale _unobtainiumkeys@gmail.com_ 
(mailto:unobtainiumkeys@gmail.com)  [newmellotrongroup] 
<_newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com) > wrote:


 
 
 
If you're referring to my earlier point - it's because he's  not using any 
Mellotron sounds at all.  


He's using generic string sounds, and pretending that they originate  and 
emanate from a Mellotron.


It's a custom made cabinet.


He has no apparent interest in the actual Mellotron 'sound', he's  just 
interested in the 'image' associated with having one.


And this makes him dishonest (if not an a**hole) in my book.  




Because he's trying to associate himself with something he has no  
association with. He's trying to capitalize on and exploit part of someone  else's 
life work.  It's unethical.  



You could argue he's promoting the image of the Mellotron, but after  50 
years, it doesn't need his promotion - and certainly not to that  demographic.


He's not supporting Streetly or Mellotron by buying their sounds in  
digital form. We're not hearing any Mellotron sounds.
If he at least had actual Mellotron sounds there, then his use of the  fake 
Mellotron cabinet would be totally understandable.
And the sounds offered now are the best they've ever been and are  
affordable to just about everyone.


So what's the problem? Why not buy and use the digital sounds  released by 
Streetly or Markus?
Why not support the companies that struggled to bring back the  machine and 
now have made the sounds available to everyone?



This is just a tasteless PR stunt. This is the kind of thing you  would 
expect to see from some immature high school band, not a  professional group of 
musicians.  And certainly not musicians capable  of the quality of music 
you're hearing.


I'm calling a spade a spade. Nothing weird about it. 






















 
On Sun, Aug 31, 2014 at 5:56 PM, Mike Dickson _mike.dickson@gmail.com_ 
(mailto:mike.dickson@gmail.com)  [newmellotrongroup] 
<_newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com) >  wrote:




 
 
 
 
 
That's a really weird and (frankly) weird attitude to take.  There are only 
a finite number of Mellotrons around, and people  want to use that sound.  
How else to get it?    


To berate people for wanting the sound they love by whatever means  is open 
to them is fine by me.  I am sure you can be a purist if  you like, but 
it's a strange kind of existence to make for yourself.  Yes, I know and you 
know that the real thing  sound better than a sampler, but in the absence of 
one, why not use  the other?  


If people want to put samplers inside fake Mellotron cases then I  really 
couldn't care less.  You are seemingly being concerned with  the medium and 
not the message.  The instrument is just a means by  which the sound - which 
is ultimately all that this (or any other  instrument) is - can be 
communicated, and most people who hear it  and love it couldn't care.  


Do you feel you are being left behind?



 
 
 
 


On 30 August 2014 11:50, Chris Dale _unobtainiumkeys@gmail.com_ 
(mailto:unobtainiumkeys@gmail.com)  [newmellotrongroup] 
<_newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com) >  wrote:


 
 
 
 
So just think - if true:


All the hard work these last 20 years - all the years of cleaning  and 
preserving of tapes, recording them, archiving them, saving the  sounds to 
computers, changing pinch rollers, pressure pads, cleaning  capstans, adjusting 
tape head azimuth, re-doing the cycling  mechanisms, track selectors, 
re-wiring power supplies, installing  motors, re-building old machines, re-doing 
the cabinets....making new  parts......and the money, and energy,  and time 
spent to do  it.....to first save and then re-introduce the instrument  


it's all being shit upon by someone with a sampler and a case to  fool 
people with. 
Some guy who wants to bask in the glow of others accomplishments,  others 
music history, and years of toil and countless hard work by  other people he 
never supported or contributed to. 


At least other people who have done something similar have bought  real 
Mellotrons or digital products from Streetly or Mellotron. and  are supporting 
them. They keep it going.




I hope you're wrong Frank. 




Well.....I guess walking around with Pabst Blue Ribbon bottles  and 
secretly having cheap Chinese beer inside will be next. :)






























 


On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 4:00 AM, _lsf5275@aol.com_ (mailto:lsf5275@aol.com) 
 [newmellotrongroup] <_newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com_ 
(mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com) >  wrote:


 
 
 
I don't think it is a real  Mellotron. I think it is a cabinet with a 
sampler in it. It's too  tall for a Mark VI or an M400 and not deep enough front 
to back to  be an M4000. There is no continuous hinge on the lid so it 
wasn't  made by Markus or Streetly and the cut-outs in to lower back panel  
aren't right. I think it's a fake.

Frank (Real M400, Real  M4000, Real Mark II)
 


 
In a message dated 8/30/2014 2:46:48 A.M. Eastern Daylight  Time, 
_newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com)  
writes:

 
I thought that as well.  


None of this sounds 'live' to me at all except for the lead  singing and 
the drums.



The background vocals are especially fake.




Those aren't Mellotron strings. The Mellotron is inaudible.  The players 
hands don't match what he's playing.
Looks like it was used as a prop.






This is a double edged sword for me. It's always nice to see  a Mellotron 
on a mainstream show, but this also somehow always  comes across like someone 
taking some great painting and using it  as a coffee table with a person 
putting his coffee mug down on it  and saying 'look how cool (but in reality - 
uncool) I  am'.



I'm sure that's not the intended effect.  




But it's like the hipster version of the cliche black grand  piano you see 
in someone's grand spacious home. It sits there,  looks nice, is regularly 
polished - and never gets played. The  impression it makes is a 
non-impression. 




The music itself is okay. I liked it. The melodies and  arrangements are 
interesting. The songs are good.




But this performance itself seems more about catering to the  hipster crowd 
- probably not the bands doing if they're on a show  like Jimmy Kimmel. 
(And the crowd noise is also fake - at the  beginning of Runaway - you hear 
more people cheering then are  actually there)  


I'd like to see *genuine* live performances from them and  listen to more 
of their songs to decide whether I truly like them  or not. 


The music is impressive, this 'live' performance  isn't. 


In a music video - okay, never a problem.  


But don't present something as 'live' and lie about it.  We now have the 
technology (mics, amps, etc.) to put on the  best live shows.
Never before in the history of the world has that been  possible.


There's no excuse in this day and age for this. 




Yes, you can argue TV's been doing this for years. But that's  beside the 
point. 
It's never acceptable or worthwhile - regardless of who is  doing it.




Bullshit is bullshit.     















On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 10:05 PM,  markpringnz <_no_reply@yahoogroups.com_ 
(mailto:no_reply@yahoogroups.com) > wrote:


 
 
 
I meant doesn't sound live.







































-- 
Mike Dickson  
Edinburgh
























-- 
Mike Dickson  
Edinburgh