Synth-DIY Yahoo! Groups Archives

New HAWK 800 user up and running

2015-02-28 by chillipower.uk@...

Hello,

I just did the modifications for HAWK-800 just now, it's now up and running for the very first time :)

So following recommendations I've left the atoma-hawk for another day in case I find issues.

So far I found a bank of mk1 and mk2 original sysex which load and play ok, as far as I can tell - I've never heard a poly 800 standard patches until today so I have no reference point. However they are not random junk patches and some sound pretty good, so I assume all is ok :)

I'm still learning, I've a couple of initial questions.

1. Using my controller keyboard (which is velocity and aftertouch sensitive) - when I use it to play the Poly800 I don't notice any patches are responding to velocity. Is that just because original patches for the 800 were like that? Or is there something I need to enable?

2. Given the original patches are pre the new features of the HAWK kit, are there any patch banks that show off new features of the kit, has anyone created one I should try out? Things that show new LFOs, new velocity sensitivity, etc?

Of course I want to get into programming new patches, but it would be handy to have a bank of new ones to play around with initially.

Also, I noticed when I send sysex to the 800 it comes up CRASH, but I found if I reduce the MIDI rate it's ok. I suppose it can't handle MIDI at too high a speed. Not a problem, just checking if this is normal?

I'd like also to get templates for my Novation X-station controller and MidiDesigner. I can make both, but if they exist already that would be handy.

Anyway, so far so good.

Pleased so far, in that the kit installation appears to have worked :)

Louis

Re: New HAWK 800 user up and running

2015-02-28 by chillipower.uk@...

Hello again,

So after playing around I can see how to assign velocity using the parameters, so it's starting to come alive. Just been experimenting around with it, it has an interesting tone. I like it. Sort of subtle and modest, understated, a little 80s, arcade tone like - understandably. Thing I like about it is it's a little different, a little unique compared to my other stuff.

I've also got a midi controller working via basic CC control. However for the more advanced parameter control I can't get a single slider on my controller keyboard to send multiple MIDI messages, such as CC 84/85 combos in order to select a param and send the associated data value.

Are there equivalent single message Sys-ex messages that I can send as a single MIDI message to control all the various params in the Poly800? I can't find any description of that in the docs but it really would be great if possible.

Also I'd still be very interested to hear any HAWK specific banks/patches. I think it's all working fine so I'll do the AtomaHAWK mods next time I have a bit of spare time.

One strange thing though. Param P1 - 48 - Chorus on/off. I can no longer here this making any difference at all. I don't know how that's possible but I'm sure it worked before. Any ideas on that?

Many thanks, Louis

Re: [korgpolyex] New HAWK 800 user up and running

2015-03-01 by Michael Hawkins

Q1. Using my controller keyboard (which is velocity and aftertouch sensitive) - when I use it to play the Poly800 I don't notice any patches are responding to velocity. Is that just because original patches for the 800 were like that? Or is there something I need to enable?

A: The original Poly-800 has no velocity sensitivity whatsoever. The HAWK adds velocity sensitivity. Check out the owners manual page 20 and 21. Even though the HAWK has some wonderful features including velocity sensitivity, I really haven't had enough time to dedicate to creating demo sysex dumps. If you do some velocity based patches then please share them with me! I do know that the velocity operators are really quite good.

Q2. Given the original patches are pre the new features of the HAWK kit, are there any patch banks that show off new features of the kit, has anyone created one I should try out? Things that show new LFOs, new velocity sensitivity, etc?

A: Check out these four banks. http://sourceforge.net/projects/hawk800/files/Patch%20Library/

Again, if you create patches, please share them with me if you like.

Q: Also, I noticed when I send sysex to the 800 it comes up CRASH, but I found if I reduce the MIDI rate it's ok. I suppose it can't handle MIDI at too high a speed. Not a problem, just checking if this is normal?

A: The memory limitations of the Poly-800 used to mean that high speed MIDI would overwrite your patches. That was really bad. I implemented stack monitoring so that if MIDI comes in too fast the HAWK will restart Poly rather than losing your patches.

Q: I'd like also to get templates for my Novation X-station controller and MidiDesigner. I can make both, but if they exist already that would be handy.

A: Check out the Novation Remote25 template http://sourceforge.net/projects/hawk800/files/Templates/

If you create one, please also share it with me.

I am revamping the HAWK website soon and I need content including patches, sound samples, sysex, templates etc.

Enjoy!

/Mike

From: "chillipower.uk@... [korgpolyex]" <korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com>
To: korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2015 11:58 AM
Subject: [korgpolyex] New HAWK 800 user up and running

Hello,

I just did the modifications for HAWK-800 just now, it's now up and running for the very first time :)

So following recommendations I've left the atoma-hawk for another day in case I find issues.

So far I found a bank of mk1 and mk2 original sysex which load and play ok, as far as I can tell - I've never heard a poly 800 standard patches until today so I have no reference point. However they are not random junk patches and some sound pretty good, so I assume all is ok :)

I'm still learning, I've a couple of initial questions.

1. Using my controller keyboard (which is velocity and aftertouch sensitive) - when I use it to play the Poly800 I don't notice any patches are responding to velocity. Is that just because original patches for the 800 were like that? Or is there something I need to enable?

2. Given the original patches are pre the new features of the HAWK kit, are there any patch banks that show off new features of the kit, has anyone created one I should try out? Things that show new LFOs, new velocity sensitivity, etc?

Of course I want to get into programming new patches, but it would be handy to have a bank of new ones to play around with initially.

Also, I noticed when I send sysex to the 800 it comes up CRASH, but I found if I reduce the MIDI rate it's ok. I suppose it can't handle MIDI at too high a speed. Not a problem, just checking if this is normal?

I'd like also to get templates for my Novation X-station controller and MidiDesigner. I can make both, but if they exist already that would be handy.

Anyway, so far so good.

Pleased so far, in that the kit installation appears to have worked :)

Louis

Re: New HAWK 800 user up and running

2015-03-01 by chillipower.uk@...

Hi Mike!

Thanks for the response.

>A1: The original Poly-800 has no velocity sensitivity whatsoever. The HAWK adds velocity sensitivity. Check out the owners manual page 20 and 21. Even though the HAWK has some wonderful features including velocity sensitivity, I really haven't had enough time to dedicate to creating demo sysex dumps. If you do some velocity based patches then please share them with me! I do know that the velocity operators are really quite good.

Got you, suspected as much. I've been playing around and it's excellent, really brings the synth to life :)

>A2: Check out these four banks.http://sourceforge.net/projects/hawk800/files/Patch%20Library/

Again, if you create patches, please share them with me if you like.

I've got those and uploaded them to the 800. Perfect.

>A3: The memory limitations of the Poly-800 used to mean that high speed MIDI would overwrite your patches. That was really bad. I implemented stack monitoring so that if MIDI comes in too fast the HAWK will restart Poly rather than losing your patches.

No problem, makes sense. Certainly much better than potentially overwriting existing data!

I notice if the 800 is part of a MIDI chain, sending Sysex to my other boxes also restarts the 800 too - I guess it's not possible to filter out sys-ex because until it's been received (in software) it's not possible to tell if it's destined for the 800 or not.

>A4: Check out the Novation Remote25 templatehttp://sourceforge.net/projects/hawk800/files/Templates/

If you create one, please also share it with me.

Got that. Good start, but very basic. I want to add things like say DEG3 ADSR, where each param is mapped to a single control on my X-Station. Slider per param.

However, I can't make a single control send CC or groups of messages. As well as the CC messages including 84/85, is there a dedicated sys-ex command set, whereby I can send a sys-ex string containing e.g. FF .. <id stuff> ... <param bank> <param id> <$dv> F7 or similar, as a single midi message? Then I can map single params to my controller just perfectly. Without that, I'm not sure how to get it to work as desired.

>I am revamping the HAWK website soon and I need content including patches, sound samples, sysex, templates etc.

Great - well I'll happily contribute where I can.

In particular if I can get my controller set up how I'd like to, I'll create some patches, maybe a whole bank using the new features and share it.

Generally it would be great to get some patch sharing going here.

I'll wait until a) got the atoma-hawk/fm installed and working and b) got my MIDI controller template set up (I'll share this too when working correctly) before getting into patch / bank creation properly.

Also have some pics from the build process too and some feedback on it generally. I'll email you the details later.

Thanks again.

All the best, Louis

Re: [korgpolyex] Re: New HAWK 800 user up and running

2015-03-01 by Michael Hawkins

Q: However, I can't make a single control send CC or groups of messages. As well as the CC messages including 84/85, is there a dedicated sys-ex command set, whereby I can send a sys-ex string containing e.g. FF .. <id stuff> ... <param bank> <param id> <$dv> F7 or similar, as a single midi message? Then I can map single params to my controller just perfectly. Without that, I'm not sure how to get it to work as desired.

A: No there isn't. But I will try to see if I can do it today.

/MIke

From: "chillipower.uk@... [korgpolyex]" <korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com>
To: korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, March 1, 2015 5:07 AM
Subject: [korgpolyex] Re: New HAWK 800 user up and running

Hi Mike!

Thanks for the response.

>A1: The original Poly-800 has no velocity sensitivity whatsoever. The HAWK adds velocity sensitivity. Check out the owners manual page 20 and 21. Even though the HAWK has some wonderful features including velocity sensitivity, I really haven't had enough time to dedicate to creating demo sysex dumps. If you do some velocity based patches then please share them with me! I do know that the velocity operators are really quite good.

Got you, suspected as much. I've been playing around and it's excellent, really brings the synth to life :)

>A2: Check out these four banks.http://sourceforge.net/projects/hawk800/files/Patch%20Library/

Again, if you create patches, please share them with me if you like.

I've got those and uploaded them to the 800. Perfect.

>A3: The memory limitations of the Poly-800 used to mean that high speed MIDI would overwrite your patches. That was really bad. I implemented stack monitoring so that if MIDI comes in too fast the HAWK will restart Poly rather than losing your patches.

No problem, makes sense. Certainly much better than potentially overwriting existing data!

I notice if the 800 is part of a MIDI chain, sending Sysex to my other boxes also restarts the 800 too - I guess it's not possible to filter out sys-ex because until it's been received (in software) it's not possible to tell if it's destined for the 800 or not.

>A4: Check out the Novation Remote25 templatehttp://sourceforge.net/projects/hawk800/files/Templates/

If you create one, please also share it with me.

Got that. Good start, but very basic. I want to add things like say DEG3 ADSR, where each param is mapped to a single control on my X-Station. Slider per param.

However, I can't make a single control send CC or groups of messages. As well as the CC messages including 84/85, is there a dedicated sys-ex command set, whereby I can send a sys-ex string containing e.g. FF .. <id stuff> ... <param bank> <param id> <$dv> F7 or similar, as a single midi message? Then I can map single params to my controller just perfectly. Without that, I'm not sure how to get it to work as desired.

>I am revamping the HAWK website soon and I need content including patches, sound samples, sysex, templates etc.

Great - well I'll happily contribute where I can.

In particular if I can get my controller set up how I'd like to, I'll create some patches, maybe a whole bank using the new features and share it.

Generally it would be great to get some patch sharing going here.

I'll wait until a) got the atoma-hawk/fm installed and working and b) got my MIDI controller template set up (I'll share this too when working correctly) before getting into patch / bank creation properly.

Also have some pics from the build process too and some feedback on it generally. I'll email you the details later.

Thanks again.

All the best, Louis

Re: [korgpolyex] Re: New HAWK 800 user up and running

2015-03-02 by bperkins211@...

Look at your X Station Manual, Page 19.

the part about NRPN setup of your controls..

now look at the HAWK 800 MIDI Implementation Chart
CC 98 and 99
read what it say's

go back to the X station manual and again read up how to setup the NRPNs

set the MSB to 1 or 0, depending on whatever Global Param. 16 is on your HAWK.
set LSB to 0-127.. see the Parameter Quick Reference Chart and use the number in the CC column next to the Parameter you want to change.

be sure you have your control set to MIDI channel 1 or whatever channel your HAWK is set to.

once you get the hang of it, you'll figure out how to map all your controls on the X to the HAWK.

Re: [korgpolyex] Re: New HAWK 800 user up and running

2015-03-02 by chillipower.uk@...

Groovy. The NRPN approach does seem to be working, I'll make a template based on this approach. Thanks.

HAWK beta release version

2015-03-02 by Michael Hawkins

For those of you that want SYX patch parameter control. Attached is version 2.6.3 of the HAWK software.

The documentation will take a week or so to update to include a couple of new features.

First, global parameter 47 allows MIDI CC messages and SYX message ID F to use absolute values instead of scaled ones.

The default value is 0 which means that scaled parameter data values are used. That is, the MIDI data value will range from 0 through to 127 regardless of the value of the parameter itself.

When the value is set to 1 the data value used for the parameter data will be the actual value in the MIDI data. MIDI data values above the maximum value for the parameter will be treated as being the maximum value for the parameter.

Second, a system exclusive message ID 0xF has been added. The message format is:

F0 42 21 0F XX YY F7

Where XX is the running patch parameter number and YY is the data value for that parameter.

I shall get this into the documentation soon.

/Mike

From: "chillipower.uk@... [korgpolyex]" <korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com>
To: korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, March 2, 2015 4:39 AM
Subject: Re: [korgpolyex] Re: New HAWK 800 user up and running

Groovy. The NRPN approach does seem to be working, I'll make a template based on this approach. Thanks.

Re: [korgpolyex] HAWK beta release version [3 Attachments]

2015-03-02 by Louis Botterill

Hey Mike,

that's amazing that you added that support so quickly. Nice one! :)

The scaling thing will be useful too. I noticed by experimentation that the values are scaled over the full 127 value range meaning that to control say 5 values you have to go up in steps. Being able to enable and disable this will be handy.

Also is it possible the docs and software already got out of step in places. for example I notice this in the documentation:

P2 41 – VCF 1st LFO waveform selector

1-8 –

1=triangle
2=inverted triangle
3=sawtooth
4=inverted sawtooth
5=sine wave
6=inverted sine wave
7=square PWM wave
8=inverted square PWM wave
9=random sample and hold from selected LFO
10=random sample and hold from sequencer clock or MIDI clock

11=random sample and hold from sequencer loop/repeat point

Selects the LFO waveform that will be used to modulate the VCF.

But when I tried it from the front panel and NRPN / CC message I see it goes up to 13. I'm not sure what 12 and 13 do, maybe new features added since the docs were created?

I hope to be fitting my atoma-hawk quite soon now, as I think I'm all up and running successfully with HAWK800. Good work on bringing out new features so readily!

Even without the atoma-hawk, getting some modulations going on the VFC etc are already bringing new life into the synth. I like the sound if it.

Louis

On 2 March 2015 at 13:22, Michael Hawkins korgpolyex800@... [korgpolyex] <korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

[Attachment(s) from Michael Hawkins included below]
For those of you that want SYX patch parameter control. Attached is version 2.6.3 of the HAWK software.

The documentation will take a week or so to update to include a couple of new features.

First, global parameter 47 allows MIDI CC messages and SYX message ID F to use absolute values instead of scaled ones.

The default value is 0 which means that scaled parameter data values are used. That is, the MIDI data value will range from 0 through to 127 regardless of the value of the parameter itself.

When the value is set to 1 the data value used for the parameter data will be the actual value in the MIDI data. MIDI data values above the maximum value for the parameter will be treated as being the maximum value for the parameter.

Second, a system exclusive message ID 0xF has been added. The message format is:

F0 42 21 0F XX YY F7

Where XX is the running patch parameter number and YY is the data value for that parameter.

I shall get this into the documentation soon.

/Mike

From: "chillipower.uk@... [korgpolyex]" <korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com>
To: korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, March 2, 2015 4:39 AM
Subject: Re: [korgpolyex] Re: New HAWK 800 user up and running

Groovy. The NRPN approach does seem to be working, I'll make a template based on this approach. Thanks.

--
Web: www.chillipower.com
Blog: http://louisbotterill.blogspot.com/
Twitter: http://twitter.com/BinaryJunkie
LinkedIn: http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/louis-botterill/10/3b2/265

“The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.” –Bertrand Russell

Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this e-mail

Re: HAWK beta release version

2015-03-02 by domgoold@...

sorry for piping up, just caught those last messages re sysex

ugh? does this mean that hitherto nobody was editing via sysex, only
via nrpn? (sysex being afaics the best way to edit midi devices)
(soz if i'm misreading)

if this is a new sysex implementation, would it be possible at some
stage to have a MIDI implementation/sysex chart such as published
usually for mainstream MIDI devices? (my 2c... :D )

Re: [korgpolyex] HAWK beta release version

2015-03-02 by Michael Hawkins

Yes, 12 and 13 are additional features but I've have not documented them yet.

/Mike

From: "Louis Botterill chillipower.uk@... [korgpolyex]" <korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com>
To: korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, March 2, 2015 10:19 AM
Subject: Re: [korgpolyex] HAWK beta release version

Hey Mike,

that's amazing that you added that support so quickly. Nice one! :)

The scaling thing will be useful too. I noticed by experimentation that the values are scaled over the full 127 value range meaning that to control say 5 values you have to go up in steps. Being able to enable and disable this will be handy.

Also is it possible the docs and software already got out of step in places. for example I notice this in the documentation:

P2 41 – VCF 1st LFO waveform selector

1-8 –

1=triangle
2=inverted triangle
3=sawtooth
4=inverted sawtooth
5=sine wave
6=inverted sine wave
7=square PWM wave
8=inverted square PWM wave
9=random sample and hold from selected LFO
10=random sample and hold from sequencer clock or MIDI clock

11=random sample and hold from sequencer loop/repeat point

Selects the LFO waveform that will be used to modulate the VCF.

But when I tried it from the front panel and NRPN / CC message I see it goes up to 13. I'm not sure what 12 and 13 do, maybe new features added since the docs were created?

I hope to be fitting my atoma-hawk quite soon now, as I think I'm all up and running successfully with HAWK800. Good work on bringing out new features so readily!

Even without the atoma-hawk, getting some modulations going on the VFC etc are already bringing new life into the synth. I like the sound if it.

Louis

On 2 March 2015 at 13:22, Michael Hawkins korgpolyex800@... [korgpolyex] <korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

[Attachment(s) from Michael Hawkins included below]
For those of you that want SYX patch parameter control. Attached is version 2.6.3 of the HAWK software.

The documentation will take a week or so to update to include a couple of new features.

First, global parameter 47 allows MIDI CC messages and SYX message ID F to use absolute values instead of scaled ones.

The default value is 0 which means that scaled parameter data values are used. That is, the MIDI data value will range from 0 through to 127 regardless of the value of the parameter itself.

When the value is set to 1 the data value used for the parameter data will be the actual value in the MIDI data. MIDI data values above the maximum value for the parameter will be treated as being the maximum value for the parameter.

Second, a system exclusive message ID 0xF has been added. The message format is:

F0 42 21 0F XX YY F7

Where XX is the running patch parameter number and YY is the data value for that parameter.

I shall get this into the documentation soon.

/Mike

From: "chillipower.uk@... [korgpolyex]" <korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com>
To: korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, March 2, 2015 4:39 AM
Subject: Re: [korgpolyex] Re: New HAWK 800 user up and running

Groovy. The NRPN approach does seem to be working, I'll make a template based on this approach. Thanks.

--

Web: www.chillipower.com
Blog: http://louisbotterill.blogspot.com/
Twitter: http://twitter.com/BinaryJunkie
LinkedIn: http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/louis-botterill/10/3b2/265

“The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.” –Bertrand Russell

Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this e-mail

Re: [korgpolyex] Re: HAWK beta release version

2015-03-02 by Michael Hawkins

The zip files that have the software also include a MIDI implementation chart. Which I am in the process of updating for software version 2.6.2 which includes the sysex patch parameter value setting function.

Yes, there was MIDI NRPN CC control over parameters but no equivalent in SYX - which I have just now fixed. I shall get the software packaged, documented and released soon.

/Mike

From: "domgoold@... [korgpolyex]" <korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com>
To: korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, March 2, 2015 12:43 PM
Subject: [korgpolyex] Re: HAWK beta release version

sorry for piping up, just caught those last messages re sysex

ugh? does this mean that hitherto nobody was editing via sysex, only
via nrpn? (sysex being afaics the best way to edit midi devices)
(soz if i'm misreading)

if this is a new sysex implementation, would it be possible at some
stage to have a MIDI implementation/sysex chart such as published
usually for mainstream MIDI devices? (my 2c... :D )

Re: [korgpolyex] Re: HAWK beta release version - updated

2015-03-03 by Michael Hawkins

I cleaned up the bank switching a bit more so that it scales or not according to global 47. If global 47 is 1 then the bank change CC data should be 0-3 corresponding to banks 1-4. Data values above 3 will select bank 4.

Also, I implemented global 48 that when set to 1 causes a patch update to occur after a valid CC bank change is received. Some people have been asking for that for some time. You have to be careful with this though because some controllers send bank msb,lsb, data followed by a patch change. Which means with global 48 set to one you're going to get two patch changes happening. One triggered by the HAWK itself and another one received from the controller.

These files are version 2.6.4.

/Mike

From: "domgoold@... [korgpolyex]" <korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com>
To: korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, March 2, 2015 12:43 PM
Subject: [korgpolyex] Re: HAWK beta release version

sorry for piping up, just caught those last messages re sysex

ugh? does this mean that hitherto nobody was editing via sysex, only
via nrpn? (sysex being afaics the best way to edit midi devices)
(soz if i'm misreading)

if this is a new sysex implementation, would it be possible at some
stage to have a MIDI implementation/sysex chart such as published
usually for mainstream MIDI devices? (my 2c... :D )

Re: [korgpolyex] HAWK beta release version

2015-03-03 by chillipower.uk@...

Hi Mike,

I figured that might be the case. Always nice when the software has more features than the docs. It's like Christmas all over again. Keep up the good work, the features you've put into this thing are amazing.

BTW I installed atomahawk last night, seems to be working. Also I made an X-station Template for key settings (using NRPN), seems to work just fine. I'll keep adding to it and can post when it's ready. I could switch to Sys-ex but the NRPN approach seems to work as well so unless there's a good reason to change it I might leave it NRPN based.

Louis