Synth-DIY Yahoo! Groups Archives

CC issues...

2012-09-03 by bimmerfan222

Well I got around to hooking up my HAWK up to a software midi CC.

I've tried both MidiJoys and Unicontrol (freeware).

What happens is it controls STANDARD Midi CC's.. like #7 is Main Volume, #71 is Resonance, #74 is Filter Cutoff...

The CC's I set on the software does not match up to the CC's for the HAWKS parameters as shown in the Quick Reference pdf.

If I tried to use CC#24 on the software slider for the filter cutoff (Parameter P2 41), the HAWK would change Parameter 12 instead. Plus it would show "CC 12 01" on the screen while I moved the software slider control (When I stop moving a slider, the "CC ** **" will change back to the previous display.), it will do this for#23 thru #30 incrementally.
CC#30 from the software changes parameter 18.

It stops there, then when I use CC#31 it will show patch "11 *P".. the "*" will go up in value 1-8.

There's other odd things that happen as well.. but obviously the point is that I want to make CC#24 change the filter cutoff as stated in the Quick Reference sheet, CC#96 to adjust the Resonance Set Point... as well as all the other CC's assigned to each and every single parameters in a single patch.

Is there a setting in the HAWK I need to change?

Re: CC issues...

2012-09-03 by bimmerfan222

OK.. after digging into the MIDI Implementation Chart, I sort of answered my own question...

CC#22 selects a Parameter Bank.. CC= Original Parameter Banks 1-8 (P1) and CE= Extended Parameter Banks 1-8 (P2). Each bank is a group of eight controls. Bank 1 (P1) is for DCO1 controls, Bank 2 (P1) is for DCO2 controls. Bank 3 (p1) is for DCO Tune, Noise and MK2 Effects.. and so on.

Then CC#23 thru CC#30 controls the Bank selected by CC#22 individually.. 23 is the first control, 24 the second, and so on until 30, which is the eighth control in the selected Bank.

So if I want to control the Filter Cutoff, I change CC#2 until the HAWK displays "CC 4-" and then I adjust CC#23 to change the first Parameter in that bank.. which is "P2 41 **" , the filter cutoff.

If I want to change, say the SLFO4 freq. I would change CC#22 until it displays "CE 7-" , then adjust CC#27 (the fifth control in that group/bank)up and down to change SLFO4's Freq from 0-15. This would be the same as editing "P2 75 **"

It takes alot of getting use to and a little frustrating, but it does work.
Thing is, I thought I could change each parameter according to the CC# shown next to that Parameter on the Quick Reference Chart..

So I'm back to the question, is there a way to CC each parameter individually using CC's 1-127, or is the above way the ONLY way to do continuous controlling of the parameters?

--- In korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com, "bimmerfan222" <bperkins211@...> wrote:
>
> Well I got around to hooking up my HAWK up to a software midi CC.
>
> I've tried both MidiJoys and Unicontrol (freeware).
>
>
> What happens is it controls STANDARD Midi CC's.. like #7 is Main Volume, #71 is Resonance, #74 is Filter Cutoff...
>
> The CC's I set on the software does not match up to the CC's for the HAWKS parameters as shown in the Quick Reference pdf.
>
> If I tried to use CC#24 on the software slider for the filter cutoff (Parameter P2 41), the HAWK would change Parameter 12 instead. Plus it would show "CC 12 01" on the screen while I moved the software slider control (When I stop moving a slider, the "CC ** **" will change back to the previous display.), it will do this for#23 thru #30 incrementally.
> CC#30 from the software changes parameter 18.
>
> It stops there, then when I use CC#31 it will show patch "11 *P".. the "*" will go up in value 1-8.
>
>
>
> There's other odd things that happen as well.. but obviously the point is that I want to make CC#24 change the filter cutoff as stated in the Quick Reference sheet, CC#96 to adjust the Resonance Set Point... as well as all the other CC's assigned to each and every single parameters in a single patch.
>
> Is there a setting in the HAWK I need to change?
>

Re: [korgpolyex] Re: CC issues...

2012-09-03 by Michael Hawkins

read the MIDI implementation chart again mate.

VCF Resonance CC #71
VCF cut off CC #74

Then read pages 31 and 32 in the owners manual.

You have no less than THREE different ways to do what you want.

NRPN CC's, my own "quick parameter change" method, and my own controller friendly method (that's the one you are frustrated by.

The standard way that most recent controllers support is the NRPN method.

But the others work, I just retested them again and they're all good.

Enjoy!

Mike

From: bimmerfan222 <bperkins211@...>
To: korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, September 3, 2012 12:59 PM
Subject: [korgpolyex] Re: CC issues...

OK.. after digging into the MIDI Implementation Chart, I sort of answered my own question...

CC#22 selects a Parameter Bank.. CC= Original Parameter Banks 1-8 (P1) and CE= Extended Parameter Banks 1-8 (P2). Each bank is a group of eight controls. Bank 1 (P1) is for DCO1 controls, Bank 2 (P1) is for DCO2 controls. Bank 3 (p1) is for DCO Tune, Noise and MK2 Effects.. and so on.

Then CC#23 thru CC#30 controls the Bank selected by CC#22 individually.. 23 is the first control, 24 the second, and so on until 30, which is the eighth control in the selected Bank.

So if I want to control the Filter Cutoff, I change CC#2 until the HAWK displays "CC 4-" and then I adjust CC#23 to change the first Parameter in that bank.. which is "P2 41 **" , the filter cutoff.

If I want to change, say the SLFO4 freq. I would change CC#22 until it displays "CE 7-" , then adjust CC#27 (the fifth control in that group/bank)up and down to change SLFO4's Freq from 0-15. This would be the same as editing "P2 75 **"

It takes alot of getting use to and a little frustrating, but it does work.
Thing is, I thought I could change each parameter according to the CC# shown next to that Parameter on the Quick Reference Chart..

So I'm back to the question, is there a way to CC each parameter individually using CC's 1-127, or is the above way the ONLY way to do continuous controlling of the parameters?

--- In korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com, "bimmerfan222" <bperkins211@...> wrote:
>
> Well I got around to hooking up my HAWK up to a software midi CC.
>
> I've tried both MidiJoys and Unicontrol (freeware).
>
>
> What happens is it controls STANDARD Midi CC's.. like #7 is Main Volume, #71 is Resonance, #74 is Filter Cutoff...
>
> The CC's I set on the software does not match up to the CC's for the HAWKS parameters as shown in the Quick Reference pdf.
>
> If I tried to use CC#24 on the software slider for the filter cutoff (Parameter P2 41), the HAWK would change Parameter 12 instead. Plus it would show "CC 12 01" on the screen while I moved the software slider control (When I stop moving a slider, the "CC ** **" will change back to the previous display.), it will do this for#23 thru #30 incrementally.
> CC#30 from the software changes parameter 18.
>
> It stops there, then when I use CC#31 it will show patch "11 *P".. the "*" will go up in value 1-8.
>
>
>
> There's other odd things that happen as well.. but obviously the point is that I want to make CC#24 change the filter cutoff as stated in the Quick Reference sheet, CC#96 to adjust the Resonance Set Point... as well as all the other CC's assigned to each and every single parameters in a single patch.
>
> Is there a setting in the HAWK I need to change?
>

Re: CC issues...

2012-09-04 by bimmerfan222

After some more digging, I found the three ways you mentioned.

I guess for now I'm stuck with the little freeware CC apps that are not NRPN configurable.
I searched and searched for software I can use on a PC to send NRPN's when a virtual slider/knob is moved.. can't seem to find one to download to try out.

Do you or anyone on here know of an app that is simple sliders/knobs that can do NRPN's? Freeware would be nice.. but I couldnt seem to find one.

What NRPN capable controller do you use Mike?

And lastly.. just what are those CC#'s next to each parameter on the Quick Reference sheet? That's what got me confused in the beginning.

The "controller friendly" method you included isnt so bad after all.. It just took a little getting use to at first.
But to do what I want, it looks like I'll be diving into NRPN controls so I can assign knobs to any parameter from any Parameter Bank.

-Blaine

--- In korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com, Michael Hawkins <korgpolyex800@...> wrote:
>
> read the MIDI implementation chart again mate.
>
> VCF Resonance CC #71
> VCF cut off CC #74
>
> Then read pages 31 and 32 in the owners manual.
>
> You have no less than THREE different ways to do what you want.
>
> NRPN CC's, my own "quick parameter change" method, and my own controller friendly method (that's the one you are frustrated by.
>
> The standard way that most recent controllers support is the NRPN method.
>
> But the others work, I just retested them again and they're all good.
>
> Enjoy!
>
> Mike
>
>
>

Re: [korgpolyex] CC issues...

2012-09-04 by Alex Drinkwater

You could try Pure Data
http://puredata.info/

I'm sure you could cook up something using that. It's not very user-friendly, though, unfortunately.

a|x

On 4 Sep 2012, at 15:33, bimmerfan222 wrote:

>
>
> After some more digging, I found the three ways you mentioned.
>
> I guess for now I'm stuck with the little freeware CC apps that are not NRPN configurable.
> I searched and searched for software I can use on a PC to send NRPN's when a virtual slider/knob is moved.. can't seem to find one to download to try out.
>
>
>
> Do you or anyone on here know of an app that is simple sliders/knobs that can do NRPN's? Freeware would be nice.. but I couldnt seem to find one.
>
> What NRPN capable controller do you use Mike?
>
> And lastly.. just what are those CC#'s next to each parameter on the Quick Reference sheet? That's what got me confused in the beginning.
>
>
>
> The "controller friendly" method you included isnt so bad after all.. It just took a little getting use to at first.
> But to do what I want, it looks like I'll be diving into NRPN controls so I can assign knobs to any parameter from any Parameter Bank.
>
>
> -Blaine
>
>
>
> --- In korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com, Michael Hawkins <korgpolyex800@...> wrote:
>>
>> read the MIDI implementation chart again mate.
>>
>> VCF Resonance CC #71
>> VCF cut off CC #74
>>
>> Then read pages 31 and 32 in the owners manual.
>>
>> You have no less than THREE different ways to do what you want.
>>
>> NRPN CC's, my own "quick parameter change" method, and my own controller friendly method (that's the one you are frustrated by.
>>
>> The standard way that most recent controllers support is the NRPN method.
>>
>> But the others work, I just retested them again and they're all good.
>>
>> Enjoy!
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Feel free to upload into the files section any sysex dumps and tape dumps of patches that you may have but please discuss (with the entire group) the posting of other files *before* posting them. This helps us to keep redundant information from showing up everywhere and also allows us to constantly improve the format and structure of the documentation. We talk about the HAWK-800 quite a bit but we also discuss and help owners of the original Poly-800 models. So don't be shy if you haven't got the HAWK-800.Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Re: [korgpolyex] CC issues...

2012-09-04 by Alex Drinkwater

The 'Controller Friendly' setup works well for programming sounds from a basic MIDI controller. It's quite fun just to randomly jerk the controllers around, too- you can come up with some mad over-modulated patches that way, I've found, e.g.
http://soundcloud.com/toneburst/ex-800-modulation-madness

It's less useful for recording and playing back sonic tweaks to/from a MIDI sequencer, however.

I'm sure this has been discussed in the past, though.

a|x

On 4 Sep 2012, at 15:33, bimmerfan222 wrote:

>
>
> After some more digging, I found the three ways you mentioned.
>
> I guess for now I'm stuck with the little freeware CC apps that are not NRPN configurable.
> I searched and searched for software I can use on a PC to send NRPN's when a virtual slider/knob is moved.. can't seem to find one to download to try out.
>
>
>
> Do you or anyone on here know of an app that is simple sliders/knobs that can do NRPN's? Freeware would be nice.. but I couldnt seem to find one.
>
> What NRPN capable controller do you use Mike?
>
> And lastly.. just what are those CC#'s next to each parameter on the Quick Reference sheet? That's what got me confused in the beginning.
>
>
>
> The "controller friendly" method you included isnt so bad after all.. It just took a little getting use to at first.
> But to do what I want, it looks like I'll be diving into NRPN controls so I can assign knobs to any parameter from any Parameter Bank.
>
>
> -Blaine
>
>
>
> --- In korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com, Michael Hawkins <korgpolyex800@...> wrote:
>>
>> read the MIDI implementation chart again mate.
>>
>> VCF Resonance CC #71
>> VCF cut off CC #74
>>
>> Then read pages 31 and 32 in the owners manual.
>>
>> You have no less than THREE different ways to do what you want.
>>
>> NRPN CC's, my own "quick parameter change" method, and my own controller friendly method (that's the one you are frustrated by.
>>
>> The standard way that most recent controllers support is the NRPN method.
>>
>> But the others work, I just retested them again and they're all good.
>>
>> Enjoy!
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Feel free to upload into the files section any sysex dumps and tape dumps of patches that you may have but please discuss (with the entire group) the posting of other files *before* posting them. This helps us to keep redundant information from showing up everywhere and also allows us to constantly improve the format and structure of the documentation. We talk about the HAWK-800 quite a bit but we also discuss and help owners of the original Poly-800 models. So don't be shy if you haven't got the HAWK-800.Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Re: [korgpolyex] Re: CC issues...

2012-09-04 by Michael Hawkins

I use a Novation RemoteSL25. I am not a professional muso though. I just use it because it works for me.

And it was cheap!

Mike

From: bimmerfan222 <bperkins211@...>
To: korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 4, 2012 10:33 AM
Subject: [korgpolyex] Re: CC issues...

After some more digging, I found the three ways you mentioned.

I guess for now I'm stuck with the little freeware CC apps that are not NRPN configurable.
I searched and searched for software I can use on a PC to send NRPN's when a virtual slider/knob is moved.. can't seem to find one to download to try out.

Do you or anyone on here know of an app that is simple sliders/knobs that can do NRPN's? Freeware would be nice.. but I couldnt seem to find one.

What NRPN capable controller do you use Mike?

And lastly.. just what are those CC#'s next to each parameter on the Quick Reference sheet? That's what got me confused in the beginning.

The "controller friendly" method you included isnt so bad after all.. It just took a little getting use to at first.
But to do what I want, it looks like I'll be diving into NRPN controls so I can assign knobs to any parameter from any Parameter Bank.

-Blaine

--- In korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com, Michael Hawkins <korgpolyex800@...> wrote:
>
> read the MIDI implementation chart again mate.
>
> VCF Resonance CC #71
> VCF cut off CC #74
>
> Then read pages 31 and 32 in the owners manual.
>
> You have no less than THREE different ways to do what you want.
>
> NRPN CC's, my own "quick parameter change" method, and my own controller friendly method (that's the one you are frustrated by.
>
> The standard way that most recent controllers support is the NRPN method.
>
> But the others work, I just retested them again and they're all good.
>
> Enjoy!
>
> Mike
>
>
>

Re: [korgpolyex] Re: CC issues...

2012-09-04 by Michael Hawkins

Actually, I have the Remote 25. Not the SL.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Novation-Remote-25-Midi-Keyboard-PSU-/230845437127?pt=Midi_Controllers&hash=item35bf75d4c7

Yeah, really, really cheap now.

Mike

From: Michael Hawkins <korgpolyex800@...>
To: "korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com" <korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 4, 2012 1:14 PM
Subject: Re: [korgpolyex] Re: CC issues...

I use a Novation RemoteSL25. I am not a professional muso though. I just use it because it works for me.

And it was cheap!

Mike

From: bimmerfan222 <bperkins211@...>
To: korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 4, 2012 10:33 AM
Subject: [korgpolyex] Re: CC issues...

After some more digging, I found the three ways you mentioned.

I guess for now I'm stuck with the little freeware CC apps that are not NRPN configurable.
I searched and searched for software I can use on a PC to send NRPN's when a virtual slider/knob is moved.. can't seem to find one to download to try out.

Do you or anyone on here know of an app that is simple sliders/knobs that can do NRPN's? Freeware would be nice.. but I couldnt seem to find one.

What NRPN capable controller do you use Mike?

And lastly.. just what are those CC#'s next to each parameter on the Quick Reference sheet? That's what got me confused in the beginning.

The "controller friendly" method you included isnt so bad after all.. It just took a little getting use to at first.
But to do what I want, it looks like I'll be diving into NRPN controls so I can assign knobs to any parameter from any Parameter Bank.

-Blaine

--- In korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com, Michael Hawkins <korgpolyex800@...> wrote:
>
> read the MIDI implementation chart again mate.
>
> VCF Resonance CC #71
> VCF cut off CC #74
>
> Then read pages 31 and 32 in the owners manual.
>
> You have no less than THREE different ways to do what you want.
>
> NRPN CC's, my own "quick parameter change" method, and my own controller friendly method (that's the one you are frustrated by.
>
> The standard way that most recent controllers support is the NRPN method.
>
> But the others work, I just retested them again and they're all good.
>
> Enjoy!
>
> Mike
>
>
>

Re: CC issues...

2012-09-04 by bimmerfan222

looks like they go for about $100, according to the last completed listing that sold.

Any comment about those CC#'s next to the parameters on the Parameter Quick Reference chart?

Like VCF cutoff has CC#24, Resonance Set Point CC#96.

--- In korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com, Michael Hawkins <korgpolyex800@...> wrote:
>
> Actually, I have the Remote 25. Not the SL.
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Novation-Remote-25-Midi-Keyboard-PSU-/230845437127?pt=Midi_Controllers&hash=item35bf75d4c7
>
> Yeah, really, really cheap now.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Michael Hawkins <korgpolyex800@...>
> To: "korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com" <korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 4, 2012 1:14 PM
> Subject: Re: [korgpolyex] Re: CC issues...
>
>
> Â
> I use a Novation RemoteSL25. I am not a professional muso though. I just use it because it works for me.
>
> And it was cheap!
>
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: bimmerfan222 <bperkins211@...>
> To: korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, September 4, 2012 10:33 AM
> Subject: [korgpolyex] Re: CC issues...
>
>
> Â
>
>
> After some more digging, I found the three ways you mentioned.
>
> I guess for now I'm stuck with the little freeware CC apps that are not NRPN configurable.
> I searched and searched for software I can use on a PC to send NRPN's when a virtual slider/knob is moved.. can't seem to find one to download to try out.
>
> Do you or anyone on here know of an app that is simple sliders/knobs that can do NRPN's? Freeware would be nice.. but I couldnt seem to find one.
>
> What NRPN capable controller do you use Mike?
>
> And lastly.. just what are those CC#'s next to each parameter on the Quick Reference sheet? That's what got me confused in the beginning.
>
> The "controller friendly" method you included isnt so bad after all.. It just took a little getting use to at first.
> But to do what I want, it looks like I'll be diving into NRPN controls so I can assign knobs to any parameter from any Parameter Bank.
>
> -Blaine
>
> --- In korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com, Michael Hawkins <korgpolyex800@> wrote:
> >
> > read the MIDI implementation chart again mate.
> >
> > VCF Resonance CC #71
> > VCF cut off CC #74
> >
> > Then read pages 31 and 32 in the owners manual.
> >
> > You have no less than THREE different ways to do what you want.
> >
> > NRPN CC's, my own "quick parameter change" method, and my own controller friendly method (that's the one you are frustrated by.
> >
> > The standard way that most recent controllers support is the NRPN method.
> >
> > But the others work, I just retested them again and they're all good.
> >
> > Enjoy!
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> >
>

Re: [korgpolyex] Re: CC issues...

2012-09-05 by Michael Hawkins

Those are the data values needed to select a particular parameter. Before you say it, you're right, it's confusing at best and downright silly at worst. I shall redo that sheet soon.\

Mike

From: bimmerfan222 <bperkins211@...>
To: korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 4, 2012 1:54 PM
Subject: [korgpolyex] Re: CC issues...

looks like they go for about $100, according to the last completed listing that sold.

Any comment about those CC#'s next to the parameters on the Parameter Quick Reference chart?

Like VCF cutoff has CC#24, Resonance Set Point CC#96.

--- In korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com, Michael Hawkins <korgpolyex800@...> wrote:
>
> Actually, I have the Remote 25. Not the SL.
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Novation-Remote-25-Midi-Keyboard-PSU-/230845437127?pt=Midi_Controllers&hash=item35bf75d4c7
>
> Yeah, really, really cheap now.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Michael Hawkins <korgpolyex800@...>
> To: "korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com" <korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 4, 2012 1:14 PM
> Subject: Re: [korgpolyex] Re: CC issues...
>
>
> Â
> I use a Novation RemoteSL25. I am not a professional muso though. I just use it because it works for me.
>
> And it was cheap!
>
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: bimmerfan222 <bperkins211@...>
> To: korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, September 4, 2012 10:33 AM
> Subject: [korgpolyex] Re: CC issues...
>
>
> Â
>
>
> After some more digging, I found the three ways you mentioned.
>
> I guess for now I'm stuck with the little freeware CC apps that are not NRPN configurable.
> I searched and searched for software I can use on a PC to send NRPN's when a virtual slider/knob is moved.. can't seem to find one to download to try out.
>
> Do you or anyone on here know of an app that is simple sliders/knobs that can do NRPN's? Freeware would be nice.. but I couldnt seem to find one.
>
> What NRPN capable controller do you use Mike?
>
> And lastly.. just what are those CC#'s next to each parameter on the Quick Reference sheet? That's what got me confused in the beginning.
>
> The "controller friendly" method you included isnt so bad after all.. It just took a little getting use to at first.
> But to do what I want, it looks like I'll be diving into NRPN controls so I can assign knobs to any parameter from any Parameter Bank.
>
> -Blaine
>
> --- In korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com, Michael Hawkins <korgpolyex800@> wrote:
> >
> > read the MIDI implementation chart again mate.
> >
> > VCF Resonance CC #71
> > VCF cut off CC #74
> >
> > Then read pages 31 and 32 in the owners manual.
> >
> > You have no less than THREE different ways to do what you want.
> >
> > NRPN CC's, my own "quick parameter change" method, and my own controller friendly method (that's the one you are frustrated by.
> >
> > The standard way that most recent controllers support is the NRPN method.
> >
> > But the others work, I just retested them again and they're all good.
> >
> > Enjoy!
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> >
>

Re: [korgpolyex] Re: CC issues...

2012-09-05 by Alex Drinkwater

I still think a dedicated CC for each and every parameter would be the best way to go.

alx

On 5 Sep 2012, at 02:09, Michael Hawkins <korgpolyex800@...> wrote:

Those are the data values needed to select a particular parameter. Before you say it, you're right, it's confusing at best and downright silly at worst. I shall redo that sheet soon.\

Mike

From: bimmerfan222 <bperkins211@...>
To: korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 4, 2012 1:54 PM
Subject: [korgpolyex] Re: CC issues...

looks like they go for about $100, according to the last completed listing that sold.

Any comment about those CC#'s next to the parameters on the Parameter Quick Reference chart?

Like VCF cutoff has CC#24, Resonance Set Point CC#96.

--- In korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com, Michael Hawkins <korgpolyex800@...> wrote:
>
> Actually, I have the Remote 25. Not the SL.
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Novation-Remote-25-Midi-Keyboard-PSU-/230845437127?pt=Midi_Controllers&hash=item35bf75d4c7
>
> Yeah, really, really cheap now.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Michael Hawkins <korgpolyex800@...>
> To: "korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com" <korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 4, 2012 1:14 PM
> Subject: Re: [korgpolyex] Re: CC issues...
>
>
> Â
> I use a Novation RemoteSL25. I am not a professional muso though. I just use it because it works for me.
>
> And it was cheap!
>
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: bimmerfan222 <bperkins211@...>
> To: korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, September 4, 2012 10:33 AM
> Subject: [korgpolyex] Re: CC issues...
>
>
> Â
>
>
> After some more digging, I found the three ways you mentioned.
>
> I guess for now I'm stuck with the little freeware CC apps that are not NRPN configurable.
> I searched and searched for software I can use on a PC to send NRPN's when a virtual slider/knob is moved.. can't seem to find one to download to try out.
>
> Do you or anyone on here know of an app that is simple sliders/knobs that can do NRPN's? Freeware would be nice.. but I couldnt seem to find one.
>
> What NRPN capable controller do you use Mike?
>
> And lastly.. just what are those CC#'s next to each parameter on the Quick Reference sheet? That's what got me confused in the beginning.
>
> The "controller friendly" method you included isnt so bad after all.. It just took a little getting use to at first.
> But to do what I want, it looks like I'll be diving into NRPN controls so I can assign knobs to any parameter from any Parameter Bank.
>
> -Blaine
>
> --- In korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com, Michael Hawkins <korgpolyex800@> wrote:
> >
> > read the MIDI implementation chart again mate.
> >
> > VCF Resonance CC #71
> > VCF cut off CC #74
> >
> > Then read pages 31 and 32 in the owners manual.
> >
> > You have no less than THREE different ways to do what you want.
> >
> > NRPN CC's, my own "quick parameter change" method, and my own controller friendly method (that's the one you are frustrated by.
> >
> > The standard way that most recent controllers support is the NRPN method.
> >
> > But the others work, I just retested them again and they're all good.
> >
> > Enjoy!
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> >
>

Re: CC issues...

2012-09-05 by bimmerfan222

> Those are the data values needed to select a particular parameter. Before you say it, you're right, it's confusing at best and downright silly at worst. I shall redo that sheet soon.\
>
> Mike

I began to assume they were ref#'s meant for the firmware and not actual MIDI CC's.

I'm guessing it wouldnt be too terribly difficult to assign parameters to open CC#'s thru code alterations?

NRPN is a great tool... it's just had to make me completely readjust my gameplan for a custom controller project I've been slowly putting together.
I'll get it working with NRPN, it just might not have all the features I thought I could design into it.

On another note, I finally ordered some encoders, D flipflops and quad bi lat switches.
I should have a working data dial to put in a Poly here in about a week ;)

-Blaine

Re: [korgpolyex] Re: CC issues...

2012-09-05 by Michael Hawkins

That is impossible due to the fact that there are 128 parameters and far less dedicated controllers are available. The theoretical maximum for MIDI dedicated controllers is 128 but many, many of them are taken for other purposes. So there's no way it can be done. That is why the MIDI committee came up with RPN's and NRPN's, which are quite effective and efficient.

Mike

From: Alex Drinkwater <the_voder@...>
To: "korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com" <korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 5, 2012 3:35 AM
Subject: Re: [korgpolyex] Re: CC issues...

I still think a dedicated CC for each and every parameter would be the best way to go.

alx

On 5 Sep 2012, at 02:09, Michael Hawkins <korgpolyex800@...> wrote:

Those are the data values needed to select a particular parameter. Before you say it, you're right, it's confusing at best and downright silly at worst. I shall redo that sheet soon.\

Mike

From: bimmerfan222 <bperkins211@...>
To: korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 4, 2012 1:54 PM
Subject: [korgpolyex] Re: CC issues...

looks like they go for about $100, according to the last completed listing that sold.

Any comment about those CC#'s next to the parameters on the Parameter Quick Reference chart?

Like VCF cutoff has CC#24, Resonance Set Point CC#96.

--- In korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com, Michael Hawkins <korgpolyex800@...> wrote:
>
> Actually, I have the Remote 25. Not the SL.
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Novation-Remote-25-Midi-Keyboard-PSU-/230845437127?pt=Midi_Controllers&hash=item35bf75d4c7
>
> Yeah, really, really cheap now.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Michael Hawkins <korgpolyex800@...>
> To: "korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com" <korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 4, 2012 1:14 PM
> Subject: Re: [korgpolyex] Re: CC issues...
>
>
> Â
> I use a Novation RemoteSL25. I am not a professional muso though. I just use it because it works for me.
>
> And it was cheap!
>
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: bimmerfan222 <bperkins211@...>
> To: korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, September 4, 2012 10:33 AM
> Subject: [korgpolyex] Re: CC issues...
>
>
> Â
>
>
> After some more digging, I found the three ways you mentioned.
>
> I guess for now I'm stuck with the little freeware CC apps that are not NRPN configurable.
> I searched and searched for software I can use on a PC to send NRPN's when a virtual slider/knob is moved.. can't seem to find one to download to try out.
>
> Do you or anyone on here know of an app that is simple sliders/knobs that can do NRPN's? Freeware would be nice.. but I couldnt seem to find one.
>
> What NRPN capable controller do you use Mike?
>
> And lastly.. just what are those CC#'s next to each parameter on the Quick Reference sheet? That's what got me confused in the beginning.
>
> The "controller friendly" method you included isnt so bad after all.. It just took a little getting use to at first.
> But to do what I want, it looks like I'll be diving into NRPN controls so I can assign knobs to any parameter from any Parameter Bank.
>
> -Blaine
>
> --- In korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com, Michael Hawkins <korgpolyex800@> wrote:
> >
> > read the MIDI implementation chart again mate.
> >
> > VCF Resonance CC #71
> > VCF cut off CC #74
> >
> > Then read pages 31 and 32 in the owners manual.
> >
> > You have no less than THREE different ways to do what you want.
> >
> > NRPN CC's, my own "quick parameter change" method, and my own controller friendly method (that's the one you are frustrated by.
> >
> > The standard way that most recent controllers support is the NRPN method.
> >
> > But the others work, I just retested them again and they're all good.
> >
> > Enjoy!
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> >
>

Re: CC issues...

2012-09-05 by bimmerfan222

>
> I still think a dedicated CC for each and every parameter would be the best way to go.
>
> alx
>

Yea, it'd simplify things.. but we cant have both 100% proprietary to the HAWK CC's and Standard CC's.

I think I see why Mike did it this way.. so the HAWK can respond to standard controls in sequencers and other MIDI hardware... and after seeing his controller, .. I see why he did the controller friendly version.

I'm working on a custom controller using PC gaming flight controls. Funny... it struck me this morning how ironic that I'm building it for the "HAWK"... so I can "FLY" my HAWK!.. and make it "Sing", like a bird.

It's this Saitek X-45 Throttle control-

http://forum.highlyliquid.com/showthread.php?p=5376

combined with this foot control-

http://charlestonarea.com/chproductsreview/CH_Products_Pro_Pedals_USB.htm

and finally they goto this custom MIDI "CPU" that converts their pots/switches into any midi message on any channel you choose.

http://store.highlyliquid.com/products/midi-cpu

-Blaine

Re: [korgpolyex] Re: CC issues...

2012-09-05 by Michael Hawkins

Q: I began to assume they were ref#'s meant for the firmware and not actual MIDI CC's.

A: I shall revise the document. It is confusing.

Q: I'm guessing it wouldnt be too terribly difficult to assign parameters to open CC#'s thru code alterations?
A: Adding some additional CC's for specific parameters is quite easy. But as I posted just now, it is impossible to map every parameter to a specific CC because there just are not enough available CC's. It's a MIDI limitation. And that is why RPN's and NRPN's were implemented in the MIDI specification.

Q: NRPN is a great tool... it's just had to make me completely readjust my gameplan for a custom controller project I've been slowly putting together.
I'll get it working with NRPN, it just might not have all the features I thought I could design into it.

A: I don't see why using NRPN's would limit you.

Q: On another note, I finally ordered some encoders, D flipflops and quad bi lat switches. I should have a working data dial to put in a Poly here in about a week ;)

A: Cool, I'd like to see that.

Mike

From: bimmerfan222 <bperkins211@...>
To: korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 5, 2012 9:34 AM
Subject: [korgpolyex] Re: CC issues...

> Those are the data values needed to select a particular parameter. Before you say it, you're right, it's confusing at best and downright silly at worst. I shall redo that sheet soon.\
>
> Mike

I began to assume they were ref#'s meant for the firmware and not actual MIDI CC's.

I'm guessing it wouldnt be too terribly difficult to assign parameters to open CC#'s thru code alterations?

NRPN is a great tool... it's just had to make me completely readjust my gameplan for a custom controller project I've been slowly putting together.
I'll get it working with NRPN, it just might not have all the features I thought I could design into it.

On another note, I finally ordered some encoders, D flipflops and quad bi lat switches.
I should have a working data dial to put in a Poly here in about a week ;)

-Blaine

Re: CC issues...

2012-09-05 by bimmerfan222

"I don't see why using NRPN's would limit you"

It's due to my complex setup of the pots and switches and the limitation of the MIDI CPU that translates their values into MIDI messages.
The CPU has a set boundry/syntax of commands.

What I was hoping to do was make a pair of pots synch'd to change the parameters they alter by pressing a momentary switch. A multimode effect.

So say.. Pot1&2 in first mode will change VCF cutoff & Resonance, then press a switch and they change to alter LFO1 freq & Depth.. press the switch again and they become LFO2 Freq/Depth.. press again and they become something else and so on..

The command structure appears to only let you do this if they are standard CC#'s. Because NRPN requires at least two CC's, it's that additional msg that must be sent that takes the ability to multi mode a set of controls.
I also wanted to do the multimode feature for a pair of "hat" switches.. they are like old time Nintendo "+" controllers.. UP/DOWN/LEFT/RIGHT switches. So they could be used for say SLFO3 Freq. UP/DOWN and it's Depth UP/DOWN... hit a separate switch and it would change to SLFO4 controls.

The FIRMWARE manual is here is you ever get curious:
http://highlyliquid.com/support/docs/pdf/MIDI-CPU-Firmware-Ver-1-2.pdf

3.1.1 is where the CPU's Sysex format can be found.. right below it is the "layer" configuration explanation.. and then 3.2 talks about all the logic modes.

Re: [korgpolyex] Re: CC issues...

2012-09-05 by Michael Hawkins

There are quite a few simple CC values that are not being used by the HAWK implementation at this time. So if you provide a short list of those you want to control, then I can have a look at implementing them.

From: bimmerfan222 <bperkins211@...>
To: korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 5, 2012 12:10 PM
Subject: [korgpolyex] Re: CC issues...

"I don't see why using NRPN's would limit you"

It's due to my complex setup of the pots and switches and the limitation of the MIDI CPU that translates their values into MIDI messages.
The CPU has a set boundry/syntax of commands.

What I was hoping to do was make a pair of pots synch'd to change the parameters they alter by pressing a momentary switch. A multimode effect.

So say.. Pot1&2 in first mode will change VCF cutoff & Resonance, then press a switch and they change to alter LFO1 freq & Depth.. press the switch again and they become LFO2 Freq/Depth.. press again and they become something else and so on..

The command structure appears to only let you do this if they are standard CC#'s. Because NRPN requires at least two CC's, it's that additional msg that must be sent that takes the ability to multi mode a set of controls.
I also wanted to do the multimode feature for a pair of "hat" switches.. they are like old time Nintendo "+" controllers.. UP/DOWN/LEFT/RIGHT switches. So they could be used for say SLFO3 Freq. UP/DOWN and it's Depth UP/DOWN... hit a separate switch and it would change to SLFO4 controls.

The FIRMWARE manual is here is you ever get curious:
http://highlyliquid.com/support/docs/pdf/MIDI-CPU-Firmware-Ver-1-2.pdf

3.1.1 is where the CPU's Sysex format can be found.. right below it is the "layer" configuration explanation.. and then 3.2 talks about all the logic modes.

Re: CC issues...

2012-09-05 by bimmerfan222

"if you provide a short list of those you want to control, then I can have a look at implementing them."

Short list eh? Well I tried to make it short, but because you made so many cool parameters to tweak and how they are all interwoven together... it's very hard to keep it short.

Here's a list of controls I find myself tweaking the most..

DCO1&2 Group- (8 CC's)

1&2 Harmonic Selector
1&2 harmonic mod. waveform
1&2 harmonic mod. source
1&2 harmonic mod. depth

DCO Tune & Noise Group (3 CC's)

DCO2 Interval
DCO2 Detune
Noise Level

LFO1&2 Group (8 CC's)

LFO1/2 Freq. ( I know LFO1 is already a CC. It'd just be nice to keep theses together)
LFO1/2 PWM Phase
SLFO3/4 waveform select for LFO1/2
SLFO3/4 mod. depth for LFO1/2

VCF Modulation Group (6 CC's)

VCF LFO1/2 waveform select
VCF LFO1/2 mod. source
VCF LFO1/2 mod. depth

Resonance (3 CC's)

LFO Mod. Waveform Sel.
LFO Mod. Source
LFO Mod. Depth

SLFO 3&4 (4 CC's)

SLFO 3/4 Freq.
SLFO 3/4 PWM Phase

DCO Modulation (3 CC's)

DCO LFO Waveform select
DCO LFO Mod. Source
DCO LFO Mod. Depth

Portamento (2 CC's)

Glide Rate
Portamento On/Off (this one isnt a parameter, but it'd be nice to toggle on/off via CC).

So that's about 37 CC's in all.
I know.. you said "short list".. the above isnt exactly short. But they are all the more fun "on the fly" controls to play with IMO.

I was thinking that maybe if they could be grouped up in the available CC's left open on the HAWK in a certain logical order?

For example: Freq. Modulation of LFO1/2 by SLFO3/4 should be together with SLFO 3/4 Freq. CC's... Either with a SLFO group or have the SLFO Freq CC's grouped up with the LFO1/2 Group. To keep them together.

I tried not to repeat controls that already have a CC assigned.. you already have VCF cutoff & Resonance Setpoint... I did repeat VCF/DCO modulation depth and LFO1 Freq. since they would be nice to have grouped together with their respective groups.... There is a method to my madness.

I'm really not trying to complicate all this, but the HAWK has become quite a complex machine to control with all the new toys in it.

-Blaine

Re: [korgpolyex] Re: CC issues...

2012-09-06 by Michael Hawkins

Too many.

From: bimmerfan222 <bperkins211@...>
To: korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 5, 2012 5:22 PM
Subject: [korgpolyex] Re: CC issues...

"if you provide a short list of those you want to control, then I can have a look at implementing them."

Short list eh? Well I tried to make it short, but because you made so many cool parameters to tweak and how they are all interwoven together... it's very hard to keep it short.

Here's a list of controls I find myself tweaking the most..

DCO1&2 Group- (8 CC's)

1&2 Harmonic Selector
1&2 harmonic mod. waveform
1&2 harmonic mod. source
1&2 harmonic mod. depth

DCO Tune & Noise Group (3 CC's)

DCO2 Interval
DCO2 Detune
Noise Level

LFO1&2 Group (8 CC's)

LFO1/2 Freq. ( I know LFO1 is already a CC. It'd just be nice to keep theses together)
LFO1/2 PWM Phase
SLFO3/4 waveform select for LFO1/2
SLFO3/4 mod. depth for LFO1/2

VCF Modulation Group (6 CC's)

VCF LFO1/2 waveform select
VCF LFO1/2 mod. source
VCF LFO1/2 mod. depth

Resonance (3 CC's)

LFO Mod. Waveform Sel.
LFO Mod. Source
LFO Mod. Depth

SLFO 3&4 (4 CC's)

SLFO 3/4 Freq.
SLFO 3/4 PWM Phase

DCO Modulation (3 CC's)

DCO LFO Waveform select
DCO LFO Mod. Source
DCO LFO Mod. Depth

Portamento (2 CC's)

Glide Rate
Portamento On/Off (this one isnt a parameter, but it'd be nice to toggle on/off via CC).

So that's about 37 CC's in all.
I know.. you said "short list".. the above isnt exactly short. But they are all the more fun "on the fly" controls to play with IMO.

I was thinking that maybe if they could be grouped up in the available CC's left open on the HAWK in a certain logical order?

For example: Freq. Modulation of LFO1/2 by SLFO3/4 should be together with SLFO 3/4 Freq. CC's... Either with a SLFO group or have the SLFO Freq CC's grouped up with the LFO1/2 Group. To keep them together.

I tried not to repeat controls that already have a CC assigned.. you already have VCF cutoff & Resonance Setpoint... I did repeat VCF/DCO modulation depth and LFO1 Freq. since they would be nice to have grouped together with their respective groups.... There is a method to my madness.

I'm really not trying to complicate all this, but the HAWK has become quite a complex machine to control with all the new toys in it.

-Blaine

Re: CC issues...

2012-09-06 by bimmerfan222

Can you give me a # you had in mind?

--- In korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com, Michael Hawkins <korgpolyex800@...> wrote:
>
> Too many.
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: bimmerfan222 <bperkins211@...>
> To: korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, September 5, 2012 5:22 PM
> Subject: [korgpolyex] Re: CC issues...
>
>
> Â
>
>
> "if you provide a short list of those you want to control, then I can have a look at implementing them."
>
> Short list eh? Well I tried to make it short, but because you made so many cool parameters to tweak and how they are all interwoven together... it's very hard to keep it short.
>
> Here's a list of controls I find myself tweaking the most..
>
> DCO1&2 Group- (8 CC's)
>
> 1&2 Harmonic Selector
> 1&2 harmonic mod. waveform
> 1&2 harmonic mod. source
> 1&2 harmonic mod. depth
>
> DCO Tune & Noise Group (3 CC's)
>
> DCO2 Interval
> DCO2 Detune
> Noise Level
>
> LFO1&2 Group (8 CC's)
>
> LFO1/2 Freq. ( I know LFO1 is already a CC. It'd just be nice to keep theses together)
> LFO1/2 PWM Phase
> SLFO3/4 waveform select for LFO1/2
> SLFO3/4 mod. depth for LFO1/2
>
> VCF Modulation Group (6 CC's)
>
> VCF LFO1/2 waveform select
> VCF LFO1/2 mod. source
> VCF LFO1/2 mod. depth
>
> Resonance (3 CC's)
>
> LFO Mod. Waveform Sel.
> LFO Mod. Source
> LFO Mod. Depth
>
> SLFO 3&4 (4 CC's)
>
> SLFO 3/4 Freq.
> SLFO 3/4 PWM Phase
>
> DCO Modulation (3 CC's)
>
> DCO LFO Waveform select
> DCO LFO Mod. Source
> DCO LFO Mod. Depth
>
> Portamento (2 CC's)
>
> Glide Rate
> Portamento On/Off (this one isnt a parameter, but it'd be nice to toggle on/off via CC).
>
> So that's about 37 CC's in all.
> I know.. you said "short list".. the above isnt exactly short. But they are all the more fun "on the fly" controls to play with IMO.
>
> I was thinking that maybe if they could be grouped up in the available CC's left open on the HAWK in a certain logical order?
>
> For example: Freq. Modulation of LFO1/2 by SLFO3/4 should be together with SLFO 3/4 Freq. CC's... Either with a SLFO group or have the SLFO Freq CC's grouped up with the LFO1/2 Group. To keep them together.
>
> I tried not to repeat controls that already have a CC assigned.. you already have VCF cutoff & Resonance Setpoint... I did repeat VCF/DCO modulation depth and LFO1 Freq. since they would be nice to have grouped together with their respective groups.... There is a method to my madness.
>
> I'm really not trying to complicate all this, but the HAWK has become quite a complex machine to control with all the new toys in it.
>
> -Blaine
>

Re: CC issues...

2012-09-16 by bimmerfan222

--- In korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com, Michael Hawkins <korgpolyex800@...> wrote:

>
> Too many.
>
>

OK... how about something simple like this?

LFo1 Freq, LFO1 Mod Depth, LFO2 Freq, LFO2 Depth, SLFO1 Freq., SLFO1 modulation depth of LFO1 FM, SLFO2 Freq., SLFO2 modulation depth of LFO1 FM.

In that order so they leapfrog from a Freq. to Depth.. and they stay grouped inside cc #'s. Like CC#'s 76-83. That way #76 would stay LFO1 rate and then add in the rest after it.. it appears your MIDI chart shows 77-83 are unused CC#'s.

A Portamento trigger ON/OFF CC would be nice, as well as use the standard CC#5 to adjust the Portamento rate.

That would be 10 CC's.