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midi cc's => very happy

2010-02-14 by k9k9dog

i think ALL midi cc's implemented would be very very good.
if all poly/ex params can be addressed by midi cc, it's
so much easier in most applications than nrpns and sysex.
the ex800's main drawback is that in a studio situation,
you need to tweak a sound fast; it isnt just about realtime
modulation. so you tend to find some patches and not start creating a new patch on that instrument. as i rememeber; it's been a
while.

this will really bring this thing into the realms of juno
replacement.(does it have a chorus yet?)
it also seems like ringmod is maybe going on in those roland
synths; it was the only way i could get a juno sound out of a
jp8000 when i demo'ed it.

like the sound of midiclock out on the sequencer; this sounds
a lot like the akai me20a arpeggiator, and it produced some nice
effects; to implement that fully, it would be very cool to have
an analogue control over velocity output. think sweeping dramatic
arpeggios!!!! well worth considering, and mabe not too hard to implement.(?) AD to velocity value>midi out?

Re: [korgpolyex] midi cc's => very happy

2010-02-14 by Michael Hawkins

Then, you should check out the MIDI implementation chart that's on the website.

I have implemented MIDI CC's that are both NRPN as well as some dedicated ones for parameter editing so it is much easier to edit patches via MIDI CC's than you would imagine.

Poly-800 versions have a chorus built in. And the MK2 has a great efx built in.

There's no ring modulation in the Poly but the FM-800 mod does give the Poly wonderful new sounds that are quite unique.

Mike

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From: k9k9dog <domgoold@...>
To: korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, February 14, 2010 9:57:38 AM
Subject: [korgpolyex] midi cc's => very happy

i think ALL midi cc's implemented would be very very good.
if all poly/ex params can be addressed by midi cc, it's
so much easier in most applications than nrpns and sysex.
the ex800's main drawback is that in a studio situation,
you need to tweak a sound fast; it isnt just about realtime
modulation. so you tend to find some patches and not start creating a new patch on that instrument. as i rememeber; it's been a
while.

this will really bring this thing into the realms of juno
replacement. (does it have a chorus yet?)
it also seems like ringmod is maybe going on in those roland
synths; it was the only way i could get a juno sound out of a
jp8000 when i demo'ed it.

like the sound of midiclock out on the sequencer; this sounds
a lot like the akai me20a arpeggiator, and it produced some nice
effects; to implement that fully, it would be very cool to have
an analogue control over velocity output. think sweeping dramatic
arpeggios!!! ! well worth considering, and mabe not too hard to implement.(? ) AD to velocity value>midi out?

Advanced sequencer mode

2010-02-14 by Michael Hawkins

Well, here's a bit more on the advanced sequenecer mode.

I know that there are different types of customers out there that bought the HAWK-800 for different reasons.

Some of you bought the kit for the new sounds, some for the MIDI control, some because you just like to tinker with old kit.

So, for some of you that have more recent gear and a comprehensive studio set up, it doesn't make a lot of sense to do much to improve sequencer.

But for those of us who like to tinker or who don't have a big studio budget, the idea of improving the sequencer has some interest.

So with that in mind, I have approached the sequencer improvements with a kind of "live music" thought.

What if I wanted to produce live music with nothing more than a drum machine and a Poly 800 or two?

What is it that makes the existing sequencer so horrible that it is basically useless?

First of all, one sequence is quite awful. Fixed - there are now seven.

Second, switching from one sequence to the other while playing is a must - Done!

Third, I don't want to mess around the back to edit a sequence. Fixed - hold the "Write" button down and press "Start/Stop".

Fourth, trying to work out what beat or bar I am at once you get up above 16 or 32 quarter notes is just about impossible. Fixed, you now set the number of quarter notes in a bar as a global parameter so that when you're in sequencer edit mode the display shows the bars and quarter note beat. This makes entering in sequences much, much easier than it ever was.

Fifth, I want to edit, play and switch sequences from my MIDI controller instead of at the Poly 800 itself. Done! Special MIDI controllers have been created that allow you to select sequences, drop in and out of edit mode and step forward and back in the sequence during edit.

With all of that completed, I took a Korg Electribe ER-1 (drum machine) and have been creating some musaq with that along side of an EX-800 and a Poly-800. With the new sequencer functions, the results have been quite pleasing.

Now, there are some other things to be done. But before I go any further, I would be interested to hear if people are interested in these features.

Or am I adding features that will just never be used?

Mike

Re: Advanced sequencer mode

2010-02-15 by gilburpgrape

Hi Mike,

I very rarely use the Poly 800 sequencer but I agree the "Live use" approach you have taken with it makes sense, though for myself Cubase SX3 is king.

I have modified/upgraded both my Poly 800 Mk'1 with the Hawk and Atomahawk kits and are extremely pleased with the results.

Originally I bought the kits to rectify the obvious shortfalls of synth, Portamento, Sustain pedal operation and Decent midi implementation but what I got was infinately more comprehensive and satisfying. ie 2xLFO's, 2xSLFO's, more modulation routings, 12/24db filter swith and quasi FM among others.

So in my situation, I think the sequencer upgrade functions that you mention are enough and could not see myself getting any deeper into the Poly's sequencer.

Cheers

Tim

Show quoted textHide quoted text

--- In korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com, Michael Hawkins <korgpolyex800@...> wrote:
>
> Well, here's a bit more on the advanced sequenecer mode.
>
> I know that there are different types of customers out there that bought the HAWK-800 for different reasons.
>
> Some of you bought the kit for the new sounds, some for the MIDI control, some because you just like to tinker with old kit.
>
> So, for some of you that have more recent gear and a comprehensive studio set up, it doesn't make a lot of sense to do much to improve sequencer.
>
> But for those of us who like to tinker or who don't have a big studio budget, the idea of improving the sequencer has some interest.
>
> So with that in mind, I have approached the sequencer improvements with a kind of "live music" thought.
>
> What if I wanted to produce live music with nothing more than a drum machine and a Poly 800 or two?
>
> What is it that makes the existing sequencer so horrible that it is basically useless?
>
> First of all, one sequence is quite awful. Fixed - there are now seven.
>
> Second, switching from one sequence to the other while playing is a must - Done!
>
> Third, I don't want to mess around the back to edit a sequence. Fixed - hold the "Write" button down and press "Start/Stop".
>
> Fourth, trying to work out what beat or bar I am at once you get up above 16 or 32 quarter notes is just about impossible. Fixed, you now set the number of quarter notes in a bar as a global parameter so that when you're in sequencer edit mode the display shows the bars and quarter note beat. This makes entering in sequences much, much easier than it ever was.
>
> Fifth, I want to edit, play and switch sequences from my MIDI controller instead of at the Poly 800 itself. Done! Special MIDI controllers have been created that allow you to select sequences, drop in and out of edit mode and step forward and back in the sequence during edit.
>
> With all of that completed, I took a Korg Electribe ER-1 (drum machine) and have been creating some musaq with that along side of an EX-800 and a Poly-800. With the new sequencer functions, the results have been quite pleasing.
>
> Now, there are some other things to be done. But before I go any
> further, I would be interested to hear if people are interested in
> these features.
>
> Or am I adding features that will just never be used?
>
> Mike
>

Re: Advanced sequencer mode

2010-02-15 by tim.tashpulatov

Don't know if this is related to sequencer, but rather to live performance - can the auto accompaniment feature be implemented? Like we used to see in cheap Yamaha and Casio keyboards.

That is, if you press C, then the C chord starts playing (or arpeggiating). To get Cm, you press C and A#. Pressing C and A will give you C7 and so on. If there are resources to do this, of course.

Re: [korgpolyex] Advanced sequencer mode

2010-02-15 by Alex Drinkwater

I have to try and get my EX-800 working again. It's been stone dead since I tried to install the FM-800 upgrade, sadly....

If it was working though, I'd be more interested in a sequencer that has fewer steps, but allowed per-step parameter mods- so you'd be able to have a different filter setting for each step, for example. I've talked about this before though, and I think I'm in a minority of one on that one, so not worth spending any time on really.

Having said that, the changes you mentioned do sound good, and go a long way towards making the sequencer usable. I'm just not sure that I'd use it much as a relatively simple note sequencer, since I have computer-based sequencers to do that.

a|x

Show quoted textHide quoted text

On 14 Feb 2010, at 19:19, Michael Hawkins wrote:

Well, here's a bit more on the advanced sequenecer mode.

I know that there are different types of customers out there that bought the HAWK-800 for different reasons.

Some of you bought the kit for the new sounds, some for the MIDI control, some because you just like to tinker with old kit.

So, for some of you that have more recent gear and a comprehensive studio set up, it doesn't make a lot of sense to do much to improve sequencer.

But for those of us who like to tinker or who don't have a big studio budget, the idea of improving the sequencer has some interest.

So with that in mind, I have approached the sequencer improvements with a kind of "live music" thought.

What if I wanted to produce live music with nothing more than a drum machine and a Poly 800 or two?

What is it that makes the existing sequencer so horrible that it is basically useless?

First of all, one sequence is quite awful. Fixed - there are now seven.

Second, switching from one sequence to the other while playing is a must - Done!

Third, I don't want to mess around the back to edit a sequence. Fixed - hold the "Write" button down and press "Start/Stop".

Fourth, trying to work out what beat or bar I am at once you get up above 16 or 32 quarter notes is just about impossible. Fixed, you now set the number of quarter notes in a bar as a global parameter so that when you're in sequencer edit mode the display shows the bars and quarter note beat. This makes entering in sequences much, much easier than it ever was.

Fifth, I want to edit, play and switch sequences from my MIDI controller instead of at the Poly 800 itself. Done! Special MIDI controllers have been created that allow you to select sequences, drop in and out of edit mode and step forward and back in the sequence during edit.

With all of that completed, I took a Korg Electribe ER-1 (drum machine) and have been creating some musaq with that along side of an EX-800 and a Poly-800. With the new sequencer functions, the results have been quite pleasing.

Now, there are some other things to be done. But before I go any further, I would be interested to hear if people are interested in these features.

Or am I adding features that will just never be used?

Mike

Re: [korgpolyex] Re: Advanced sequencer mode

2010-02-15 by Michael Hawkins

It could be done. I just need to google to find a discussion of the mathematical progression of chords.

And more time to implement it.

MH

Show quoted textHide quoted text

From: tim.tashpulatov <tim.tashpulatov@...>
To: korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, February 15, 2010 3:16:29 AM
Subject: [korgpolyex] Re: Advanced sequencer mode

Don't know if this is related to sequencer, but rather to live performance - can the auto accompaniment feature be implemented? Like we used to see in cheap Yamaha and Casio keyboards.

That is, if you press C, then the C chord starts playing (or arpeggiating) . To get Cm, you press C and A#. Pressing C and A will give you C7 and so on. If there are resources to do this, of course.

Re: [korgpolyex] Advanced sequencer mode

2010-02-15 by Michael Hawkins

I am thinking further about the VCF track for the sequencer.

Where did you get with the AtomaHawk upgrade?

Does the EX boot up at all?

Mike

Show quoted textHide quoted text

From: Alex Drinkwater <the_voder@...>
To: korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, February 15, 2010 4:32:20 AM
Subject: Re: [korgpolyex] Advanced sequencer mode

I have to try and get my EX-800 working again. It's been stone dead since I tried to install the FM-800 upgrade, sadly....

a|x

On 14 Feb 2010, at 19:19, Michael Hawkins wrote:

Well, here's a bit more on the advanced sequenecer mode.

I know that there are different types of customers out there that bought the HAWK-800 for different reasons.

Some of you bought the kit for the new sounds, some for the MIDI control, some because you just like to tinker with old kit.

So, for some of you that have more recent gear and a comprehensive studio set up, it doesn't make a lot of sense to do much to improve sequencer.

But for those of us who like to tinker or who don't have a big studio budget, the idea of improving the sequencer has some interest.

So with that in mind, I have approached the sequencer improvements with a kind of "live music" thought.

What if I wanted to produce live music with nothing more than a drum machine and a Poly 800 or two?

What is it that makes the existing sequencer so horrible that it is basically useless?

First of all, one sequence is quite awful. Fixed - there are now seven.

Second, switching from one sequence to the other while playing is a must - Done!

Third, I don't want to mess around the back to edit a sequence. Fixed - hold the "Write" button down and press "Start/Stop" .

Fourth, trying to work out what beat or bar I am at once you get up above 16 or 32 quarter notes is just about impossible. Fixed, you now set the number of quarter notes in a bar as a global parameter so that when you're in sequencer edit mode the display shows the bars and quarter note beat. This makes entering in sequences much, much easier than it ever was.

Fifth, I want to edit, play and switch sequences from my MIDI controller instead of at the Poly 800 itself. Done! Special MIDI controllers have been created that allow you to select sequences, drop in and out of edit mode and step forward and back in the sequence during edit.

With all of that completed, I took a Korg Electribe ER-1 (drum machine) and have been creating some musaq with that along side of an EX-800 and a Poly-800. With the new sequencer functions, the results have been quite pleasing.

Now, there are some other things to be done. But before I go any further, I would be interested to hear if people are interested in these features.

Or am I adding features that will just never be used?

Mike

Re: [korgpolyex] Advanced sequencer mode

2010-02-17 by Epiik Soul

I bought my kit for the improved synth functions and for the improved midi control. I'm also into modding/circuit bending so it was a natural.
As for the sequencer, I usually just use it to lay down a bass line and riff off it when I'm practicing playing leads on another synth. The features you've added are more than I would probably ever use.
Lou

Show quoted textHide quoted text

--- On Sun, 2/14/10, Michael Hawkins <korgpolyex800@...> wrote:

From: Michael Hawkins <korgpolyex800@...>
Subject: [korgpolyex] Advanced sequencer mode
To: korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, February 14, 2010, 2:19 PM

Well, here's a bit more on the advanced sequenecer mode.

I know that there are different types of customers out there that bought the HAWK-800 for different reasons.

Some of you bought the kit for the new sounds, some for the MIDI control, some because you just like to tinker with old kit.

So, for some of you that have more recent gear and a comprehensive studio set up, it doesn't make a lot of sense to do much to improve sequencer.

But for those of us who like to tinker or who don't have a big studio budget, the idea of improving the sequencer has some interest.

So with that in mind, I have approached the sequencer improvements with a kind of "live music" thought.

What if I wanted to produce live music with nothing more than a drum machine and a Poly 800 or two?

What is it that makes the existing sequencer so horrible that it is basically useless?

First of all, one sequence is quite awful. Fixed - there are now seven.

Second, switching from one sequence to the other while playing is a must - Done!

Third, I don't want to mess around the back to edit a sequence. Fixed - hold the "Write" button down and press "Start/Stop" .

Fourth, trying to work out what beat or bar I am at once you get up above 16 or 32 quarter notes is just about impossible. Fixed, you now set the number of quarter notes in a bar as a global parameter so that when you're in sequencer edit mode the display shows the bars and quarter note beat. This makes entering in sequences much, much easier than it ever was.

Fifth, I want to edit, play and switch sequences from my MIDI controller instead of at the Poly 800 itself. Done! Special MIDI controllers have been created that allow you to select sequences, drop in and out of edit mode and step forward and back in the sequence during edit.

With all of that completed, I took a Korg Electribe ER-1 (drum machine) and have been creating some musaq with that along side of an EX-800 and a Poly-800. With the new sequencer functions, the results have been quite pleasing.

Now, there are some other things to be done. But before I go any further, I would be interested to hear if people are interested in these features.

Or am I adding features that will just never be used?

Mike

Re: Advanced sequencer mode

2010-02-19 by zoinky420

--- In korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com, Michael Hawkins <korgpolyex800@...> wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text

>
>
> Or am I adding features that will just never be used?
>

no I think you're developing a user interface that hardware manufacturers don't have the time to develop. Usually they don't pay much attention to usability, the idea being that the user can eventually get used to it no matter how cumbersome it is. There are very few products developed by someone who actually uses them. The fact that you use the product means that every feature you impliment is going to be something you figure you'd like to use, so even if people who buy the kit don't use all the features immediately, they'll be there to use when they finally realize how useful they'd be.

One thing I'm wondering, will it be possible to assign the various sequencer memories to keys, so that you could press a key on the keyboard and it would start playing the sequence assigned to that key, and then you could press another key and I guess either have the previous sequence cut off or get mixed with the new one? Or how about this, what if each sequence could be mapped time-wise across the entire keyboard, so that if you pressed middle-C it would start playback from the middle of the sequence, and if you pressed the lowest key on the keyboard it would start from the beginning of the sequence, and so you could remix the sequence on the fly with instant access to any part of it. Maybe it could even be used to make editing the sequence easier... hmm, how about an edit mode where the white keys are notes and the black keys are sequence steps.. so you could press a black key to get to the note you want to edit, then press a white key to enter the note you want for that sequence step.

Oh well, just some weird ideas from the peanut gallery...

Re: Advanced sequencer mode

2010-02-19 by zoinky420

--- In korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com, Michael Hawkins <korgpolyex800@...> wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text

>
> It could be done. I just need to google to find a discussion of the mathematical progression of chords.
>
> And more time to implement it.
>

seems like a lot of work for something arguably pointless. I mean the Poly 800 doesn't have percussion, so adding chord accompanyment doesn't sound very useful, and since the Poly800 already has chord memory and if you can use that with the sequencer, would auto-accompanyment really be more desirable than such a simple means of creating manual chord sequences? I like the idea of seperate parameter values for each sequence step better.

Re: Advanced sequencer mode

2010-02-19 by zoinky420

--- In korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com, Epiik Soul <electrohead2000@...> wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text

>
> I bought my kit for the improved synth functions and for the improved midi control. I'm also into modding/circuit bending so it was a natural.
> As for the sequencer, I usually just use it to lay down a bass line and riff off it when I'm practicing playing leads on another synth. The features you've added are more than I would probably ever use.
> Lou
>

I think this is the wrong way to think about the situation. You admit you use the Poly800's stock sequencer, and you use it because by having access to it you've discovered a way for it to be useful to you. If the Poly800 didn't have the stock sequencer it does, and someone were to suggest a modification to add the exact sequencer controls that the Poly 800 has stock, wouldn't you likely say that would be "more than (you) would probably use"? Because unless you have a chance to use something you have no idea if you will find a use for it. Only because the Poly800 comes with a stock rudimentary sequencing function did you find a way to make it useful. So it seem to me that since you did find a use for the stock sequencer, you would be even more likely to find a use for any additional sequencing functions, than for example, someone who never utilized the stock sequencer in the first place.

Re: [korgpolyex] Re: Advanced sequencer mode

2010-02-19 by Alex Drinkwater

On 19 Feb 2010, at 06:05, zoinky420 wrote:

>
>
> --- In korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com, Michael Hawkins
> <korgpolyex800@...> wrote:
>>
>> It could be done. I just need to google to find a discussion of
>> the mathematical progression of chords.
>>
>> And more time to implement it.
>>
>
> seems like a lot of work for something arguably pointless. I mean
> the Poly 800 doesn't have percussion, so adding chord accompanyment
> doesn't sound very useful, and since the Poly800 already has chord
> memory and if you can use that with the sequencer, would auto-
> accompanyment really be more desirable than such a simple means of
> creating manual chord sequences? I like the idea of seperate
> parameter values for each sequence step better.

Glad you're with me on that. Thought it was just me ;)

a|x

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>
>
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> Yahoo! Groups Links
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Re: [korgpolyex] Re: Advanced sequencer mode

2010-02-19 by Michael Hawkins

Actually, the way it is working right now is that you hold down the "Bank Hold" button and then press any keypad number 1 to 7 and that switches the selected sequence.

You can do that while a sequence is running (or stopped) in which case the current playing sequence finishes before switching to the new selected one. All the while the display flashes indicating that the sequence is about to switch. And once the switch to the new sequence occurs, the display stops flashing.

So I found it to be incredibly fun to jam with a Korg ER-1 and two HAWK-ed Poly-800's.

Keep in mind that I also implemented MIDI controllers to go in and out of seq. edit mode and step forward and back in seq. edit mode as well as selecting any one of the 7 sequences. So I am able to edit sequences from a controller and play sequences from the controller. And I also implemented MIDI controllers to "mute" the playing sequence (so it keeps time with MIDI timing but is muted). This lets you punch in and punch out a playing sequence.

And also keep in mind that I changed the editing display to show bars and beat counts instead of just one incrementing counter. This makes it much, much easier to enter in sequences that are on time with a "real" piece of music.

The results are a lot of fun and useful, in my opinion. The only reason I haven't released the new code is because there's an annoying bug in the sequence editing. Once I sort that out, I will be able to make the new code available.

And yes, I am thinking about more features. For example, running the sequencer with delayed note off control so that we can use the sequencer in portamento mono mode. I love sequences that use portamento! And, I am thinking about how to implement real time editing (very tricky that one). And also thinking about a parameter control track (also quite tricky).

Mike.

Show quoted textHide quoted text

From: zoinky420 <zoinky420@...>
To: korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, February 19, 2010 12:43:36 AM
Subject: [korgpolyex] Re: Advanced sequencer mode

--- In korgpolyex@yahoogro ups.com, Michael Hawkins <korgpolyex800@ ...> wrote:
>
>
> Or am I adding features that will just never be used?
>

no I think you're developing a user interface that hardware manufacturers don't have the time to develop. Usually they don't pay much attention to usability, the idea being that the user can eventually get used to it no matter how cumbersome it is. There are very few products developed by someone who actually uses them. The fact that you use the product means that every feature you impliment is going to be something you figure you'd like to use, so even if people who buy the kit don't use all the features immediately, they'll be there to use when they finally realize how useful they'd be.

One thing I'm wondering, will it be possible to assign the various sequencer memories to keys, so that you could press a key on the keyboard and it would start playing the sequence assigned to that key, and then you could press another key and I guess either have the previous sequence cut off or get mixed with the new one? Or how about this, what if each sequence could be mapped time-wise across the entire keyboard, so that if you pressed middle-C it would start playback from the middle of the sequence, and if you pressed the lowest key on the keyboard it would start from the beginning of the sequence, and so you could remix the sequence on the fly with instant access to any part of it. Maybe it could even be used to make editing the sequence easier... hmm, how about an edit mode where the white keys are notes and the black keys are sequence steps.. so you could press a black key to get to the note you want to edit, then press a white key to enter the note you want for that sequence step.

Oh well, just some weird ideas from the peanut gallery...

Re: [korgpolyex] Re: Advanced sequencer mode

2010-02-19 by Michael Hawkins

The original chord mode is a bit limited though. It doesn't progress on major or minor (or any other chord progression format) which tends to limit its use.

So although I am somewhat in agreement that a Casio chord mode might not be worth the trouble.

If someone (or the team) comes up with an interesting and useful way to change the chord behavior, then I am more than willing to consider the idea for implementation in the software.

Mike

Show quoted textHide quoted text

From: Alex Drinkwater <the_voder@...>
To: korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, February 19, 2010 6:39:38 AM
Subject: Re: [korgpolyex] Re: Advanced sequencer mode

On 19 Feb 2010, at 06:05, zoinky420 wrote:

>
>
> --- In korgpolyex@yahoogro ups.com, Michael Hawkins
> <korgpolyex800@ ...> wrote:
>>
>> It could be done. I just need to google to find a discussion of
>> the mathematical progression of chords.
>>
>> And more time to implement it.
>>
>
> seems like a lot of work for something arguably pointless. I mean
> the Poly 800 doesn't have percussion, so adding chord accompanyment
> doesn't sound very useful, and since the Poly800 already has chord
> memory and if you can use that with the sequencer, would auto-
> accompanyment really be more desirable than such a simple means of
> creating manual chord sequences? I like the idea of seperate
> parameter values for each sequence step better.

Glad you're with me on that. Thought it was just me ;)

a|x

>
>
>
>
> ------------ --------- --------- ------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
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