Synth-DIY Yahoo! Groups Archives

Korg engineers vs Mike

2009-01-08 by Michael Hawkins

Trying to be nice to Korg here, I think that the MDK rom kit for the Poly-800 was someone in sales/marketing saying "how can you guys give the EX-800 sysex dump and not be able to do that in the Poly-800?".

And the engineers reply "look, the ROM storage is only 8K and there just isn't any space left in it for sysex".

Sales/marketing says "well, I don't care what you do, but you better make it available for the Poly-800".

So the engineers (who at this point have little interest in the Poly-800 because they're already working on the DW-8000 and are so far past their deadlines that they have to kludge the DW-6000 first) give the job to the new apprentice saying "I don't care how you do it, just make it happen within four weeks. We have more important things for you to be doing."

So the apprentice goes over to the software developers and they say "we're working on the DW-8000/6000, we don't give a damn about that silly Poly-800 anymore. So we are NOT, I repeat, NOT going to do anymore software development on that dang thing".

So the apprentice is stuck with making it happen while at the same time having to use any existing code.

So he designs a board that will work in the Poly-800MK1 but uses the same EPROM/code as used in the MK2 because he figures he can atleast get the developers to just disable the MK2 EQ and EFX code if he needs to.

Problem solved. Meanwhile, your Poly-800 looks like a bomb went off inside of it.

Whereas, I had the luxury of saying to myself "What is the best way I can think of to do this, I can do whatever I want!"

Mind you, a few savvy engineers have already pointed out some shortcomings of my engineering effort too. For example, I really should have used 62256 and 28C256 RAM and ROM chips. There's really no need to use so much real estate for the old 8K chips.

And using a CR2032 battery instead of just writing the patches into flash? What was I thinking?

So there really is always a better way. It's just those sales/marketing departments that get in the way. I respect the Korg engineers. They have produced some of the best synthesizers of our time.

Mike.

Show quoted textHide quoted text

From: zoinky420 <zoinky420@...>
To: korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 7, 2009 9:11:09 PM
Subject: [korgpolyex] Re: Trying to date my MkI

--- In korgpolyex@yahoogro ups.com, Michael Hawkins
<korgpolyex800@ ...> wrote:

>
> Brian,
>
> there is no later firmware that supports SYSEX in the Poly-800.
>
> The only thing that was out there (until the HAWK-800 came along)

was the Korg MDK ROM kit.

>
> You can still find them, but they are very rare and they are an

absolute dog to install. Cut tracks everywhere, jumpers all over the
place. Not a pretty site and easy to screw up.

>
> If you want full SYSEX support, buy my kit!
>

It's pretty impressive that your kit not only has more features but
is also better designed. Is that because of access to more modern
parts, or are you just better than Korg?

BTW, I still plan on buying the aTomahawk, but when the canadian
dollar took a nose-dive I got cold feet. But it's creeping up again
and I'm more flush with cash so I intend to order it soon.

RE: [korgpolyex] Korg engineers vs Mike

2009-01-08 by LARRY HAWKE

"some of the best synthesizers of our time"
I completely agree, Mike, after all...I own three of them now (with my eyes on a 4th)!
Did you know that Korg was under Yamaha's 'umbrella' for some time, and much of the components were manufactured by Yamaha?

To: korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com

Show quoted textHide quoted text

From: korgpolyex800@...
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 06:41:24 -0800
Subject: [korgpolyex] Korg engineers vs Mike

Trying to be nice to Korg here, I think that the MDK rom kit for the Poly-800 was someone in sales/marketing saying "how can you guys give the EX-800 sysex dump and not be able to do that in the Poly-800?".

And the engineers reply "look, the ROM storage is only 8K and there just isn't any space left in it for sysex".

Sales/marketing says "well, I don't care what you do, but you better make it available for the Poly-800".

So the engineers (who at this point have little interest in the Poly-800 because they're already working on the DW-8000 and are so far past their deadlines that they have to kludge the DW-6000 first) give the job to the new apprentice saying "I don't care how you do it, just make it happen within four weeks. We have more important things for you to be doing."

So the apprentice goes over to the software developers and they say "we're working on the DW-8000/6000, we don't give a damn about that silly Poly-800 anymore. So we are NOT, I repeat, NOT going to do anymore software development on that dang thing".

So the apprentice is stuck with making it happen while at the same time having to use any existing code.

So he designs a board that will work in the Poly-800MK1 but uses the same EPROM/code as used in the MK2 because he figures he can atleast get the developers to just disable the MK2 EQ and EFX code if he needs to.

Problem solved. Meanwhile, your Poly-800 looks like a bomb went off inside of it.

Whereas, I had the luxury of saying to myself "What is the best way I can think of to do this, I can do whatever I want!"

Mind you, a few savvy engineers have already pointed out some shortcomings of my engineering effort too. For example, I really should have used 62256 and 28C256 RAM and ROM chips. There's really no need to use so much real estate for the old 8K chips.

And using a CR2032 battery instead of just writing the patches into flash? What was I thinking?

So there really is always a better way. It's just those sales/marketing departments that get in the way. I respect the Korg engineers. They have produced some of the best synthesizers of our time.

Mike.

From: zoinky420 <zoinky420@yahoo. com>
To: korgpolyex@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 7, 2009 9:11:09 PM
Subject: [korgpolyex] Re: Trying to date my MkI

--- In korgpolyex@yahoogro ups.com, Michael Hawkins
<korgpolyex800@ ...> wrote:

>
> Brian,
>
> there is no later firmware that supports SYSEX in the Poly-800.
>
> The only thing that was out there (until the HAWK-800 came along)

was the Korg MDK ROM kit.

>
> You can still find them, but they are very rare and they are an

absolute dog to install. Cut tracks everywhere, jumpers all over the
place. Not a pretty site and easy to screw up.

>
> If you want full SYSEX support, buy my kit!
>

It's pretty impressive that your kit not only has more features but
is also better designed. Is that because of access to more modern
parts, or are you just better than Korg?

BTW, I still plan on buying the aTomahawk, but when the canadian
dollar took a nose-dive I got cold feet. But it's creeping up again
and I'm more flush with cash so I intend to order it soon.

Re: [korgpolyex] Korg engineers vs Mike

2009-01-08 by Alex Drinkwater

Slightly OT, I know, but talking of Korg products generally, do any list members happen to have a Korg Prophesy? I've always been intrigued by these, and I also like the idea of their small size (I have very limited space for music gear where I am at the moment).

a|x

On 8 Jan 2009, at 15:20, LARRY HAWKE wrote:

"some of the best synthesizers of our time"
I completely agree, Mike, after all...I own three of them now (with my eyes on a 4th)!
Did you know that Korg was under Yamaha's 'umbrella' for some time, and much of the components were manufactured by Yamaha?

To: korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com

Show quoted textHide quoted text

From: korgpolyex800@...
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 06:41:24 -0800
Subject: [korgpolyex] Korg engineers vs Mike

Trying to be nice to Korg here, I think that the MDK rom kit for the Poly-800 was someone in sales/marketing saying "how can you guys give the EX-800 sysex dump and not be able to do that in the Poly-800?".

And the engineers reply "look, the ROM storage is only 8K and there just isn't any space left in it for sysex".

Sales/marketing says "well, I don't care what you do, but you better make it available for the Poly-800".

So the engineers (who at this point have little interest in the Poly-800 because they're already working on the DW-8000 and are so far past their deadlines that they have to kludge the DW-6000 first) give the job to the new apprentice saying "I don't care how you do it, just make it happen within four weeks. We have more important things for you to be doing."

So the apprentice goes over to the software developers and they say "we're working on the DW-8000/6000, we don't give a damn about that silly Poly-800 anymore. So we are NOT, I repeat, NOT going to do anymore software development on that dang thing".

So the apprentice is stuck with making it happen while at the same time having to use any existing code.

So he designs a board that will work in the Poly-800MK1 but uses the same EPROM/code as used in the MK2 because he figures he can atleast get the developers to just disable the MK2 EQ and EFX code if he needs to.

Problem solved. Meanwhile, your Poly-800 looks like a bomb went off inside of it.

Whereas, I had the luxury of saying to myself "What is the best way I can think of to do this, I can do whatever I want!"

Mind you, a few savvy engineers have already pointed out some shortcomings of my engineering effort too. For example, I really should have used 62256 and 28C256 RAM and ROM chips. There's really no need to use so much real estate for the old 8K chips.

And using a CR2032 battery instead of just writing the patches into flash? What was I thinking?

So there really is always a better way. It's just those sales/marketing departments that get in the way. I respect the Korg engineers. They have produced some of the best synthesizers of our time.

Mike.

From: zoinky420 <zoinky420@yahoo. com>
To: korgpolyex@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 7, 2009 9:11:09 PM
Subject: [korgpolyex] Re: Trying to date my MkI

--- In korgpolyex@yahoogro ups.com, Michael Hawkins
<korgpolyex800@ ...> wrote:
>
> Brian,
>
> there is no later firmware that supports SYSEX in the Poly-800.
>
> The only thing that was out there (until the HAWK-800 came along)
was the Korg MDK ROM kit.
>
> You can still find them, but they are very rare and they are an
absolute dog to install. Cut tracks everywhere, jumpers all over the
place. Not a pretty site and easy to screw up.
>
> If you want full SYSEX support, buy my kit!
>

It's pretty impressive that your kit not only has more features but
is also better designed. Is that because of access to more modern
parts, or are you just better than Korg?

BTW, I still plan on buying the aTomahawk, but when the canadian
dollar took a nose-dive I got cold feet. But it's creeping up again
and I'm more flush with cash so I intend to order it soon.

RE: [korgpolyex] Korg engineers vs Mike

2009-01-08 by LARRY HAWKE

You might try posting a classified ad on Ebay. ;^)

To: korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com

Show quoted textHide quoted text

From: the_voder@...
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 15:29:54 +0000
Subject: Re: [korgpolyex] Korg engineers vs Mike

Slightly OT, I know, but talking of Korg products generally, do any list members happen to have a Korg Prophesy? I've always been intrigued by these, and I also like the idea of their small size (I have very limited space for music gear where I am at the moment).

a|x

On 8 Jan 2009, at 15:20, LARRY HAWKE wrote:

"some of the best synthesizers of our time"
I completely agree, Mike, after all...I own three of them now (with my eyes on a 4th)!
Did you know that Korg was under Yamaha's 'umbrella' for some time, and much of the components were manufactured by Yamaha?

To: korgpolyex@yahoogro ups.com
From: korgpolyex800@ yahoo.com
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 06:41:24 -0800
Subject: [korgpolyex] Korg engineers vs Mike

Trying to be nice to Korg here, I think that the MDK rom kit for the Poly-800 was someone in sales/marketing saying "how can you guys give the EX-800 sysex dump and not be able to do that in the Poly-800?".

And the engineers reply "look, the ROM storage is only 8K and there just isn't any space left in it for sysex".

Sales/marketing says "well, I don't care what you do, but you better make it available for the Poly-800".

So the engineers (who at this point have little interest in the Poly-800 because they're already working on the DW-8000 and are so far past their deadlines that they have to kludge the DW-6000 first) give the job to the new apprentice saying "I don't care how you do it, just make it happen within four weeks. We have more important things for you to be doing."

So the apprentice goes over to the software developers and they say "we're working on the DW-8000/6000, we don't give a damn about that silly Poly-800 anymore. So we are NOT, I repeat, NOT going to do anymore software development on that dang thing".

So the apprentice is stuck with making it happen while at the same time having to use any existing code.

So he designs a board that will work in the Poly-800MK1 but uses the same EPROM/code as used in the MK2 because he figures he can atleast get the developers to just disable the MK2 EQ and EFX code if he needs to.

Problem solved. Meanwhile, your Poly-800 looks like a bomb went off inside of it.

Whereas, I had the luxury of saying to myself "What is the best way I can think of to do this, I can do whatever I want!"

Mind you, a few savvy engineers have already pointed out some shortcomings of my engineering effort too. For example, I really should have used 62256 and 28C256 RAM and ROM chips. There's really no need to use so much real estate for the old 8K chips.

And using a CR2032 battery instead of just writing the patches into flash? What was I thinking?

So there really is always a better way. It's just those sales/marketing departments that get in the way. I respect the Korg engineers. They have produced some of the best synthesizers of our time.

Mike.

From: zoinky420 <zoinky420@yahoo. com>
To: korgpolyex@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 7, 2009 9:11:09 PM
Subject: [korgpolyex] Re: Trying to date my MkI

--- In korgpolyex@yahoogro ups.com, Michael Hawkins
<korgpolyex800@ ...> wrote:
>
> Brian,
>
> there is no later firmware that supports SYSEX in the Poly-800.
>
> The only thing that was out there (until the HAWK-800 came along)
was the Korg MDK ROM kit.
>
> You can still find them, but they are very rare and they are an
absolute dog to install. Cut tracks everywhere, jumpers all over the
place. Not a pretty site and easy to screw up.
>
> If you want full SYSEX support, buy my kit!
>

It's pretty impressive that your kit not only has more features but
is also better designed. Is that because of access to more modern
parts, or are you just better than Korg?

BTW, I still plan on buying the aTomahawk, but when the canadian
dollar took a nose-dive I got cold feet. But it's creeping up again
and I'm more flush with cash so I intend to order it soon.

Re: [korgpolyex] Korg engineers vs Mike

2009-01-08 by Alex Drinkwater

Oh, I'm not looking to buy one at the moment, just wondered if any of you guys had one, and had any comments on it.

They seem to come up on eBay UK quite regularly.

a|x

On 8 Jan 2009, at 16:10, LARRY HAWKE wrote:

You might try posting a classified ad on Ebay. ;^)

To: korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com

Show quoted textHide quoted text

From: the_voder@...
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 15:29:54 +0000
Subject: Re: [korgpolyex] Korg engineers vs Mike

Slightly OT, I know, but talking of Korg products generally, do any list members happen to have a Korg Prophesy? I've always been intrigued by these, and I also like the idea of their small size (I have very limited space for music gear where I am at the moment).

a|x

On 8 Jan 2009, at 15:20, LARRY HAWKE wrote:

"some of the best synthesizers of our time"
I completely agree, Mike, after all...I own three of them now (with my eyes on a 4th)!
Did you know that Korg was under Yamaha's 'umbrella' for some time, and much of the components were manufactured by Yamaha?

To: korgpolyex@yahoogro ups.com
From: korgpolyex800@ yahoo.com
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 06:41:24 -0800
Subject: [korgpolyex] Korg engineers vs Mike

Trying to be nice to Korg here, I think that the MDK rom kit for the Poly-800 was someone in sales/marketing saying "how can you guys give the EX-800 sysex dump and not be able to do that in the Poly-800?".

And the engineers reply "look, the ROM storage is only 8K and there just isn't any space left in it for sysex".

Sales/marketing says "well, I don't care what you do, but you better make it available for the Poly-800".

So the engineers (who at this point have little interest in the Poly-800 because they're already working on the DW-8000 and are so far past their deadlines that they have to kludge the DW-6000 first) give the job to the new apprentice saying "I don't care how you do it, just make it happen within four weeks. We have more important things for you to be doing."

So the apprentice goes over to the software developers and they say "we're working on the DW-8000/6000, we don't give a damn about that silly Poly-800 anymore. So we are NOT, I repeat, NOT going to do anymore software development on that dang thing".

So the apprentice is stuck with making it happen while at the same time having to use any existing code.

So he designs a board that will work in the Poly-800MK1 but uses the same EPROM/code as used in the MK2 because he figures he can atleast get the developers to just disable the MK2 EQ and EFX code if he needs to.

Problem solved. Meanwhile, your Poly-800 looks like a bomb went off inside of it.

Whereas, I had the luxury of saying to myself "What is the best way I can think of to do this, I can do whatever I want!"

Mind you, a few savvy engineers have already pointed out some shortcomings of my engineering effort too. For example, I really should have used 62256 and 28C256 RAM and ROM chips. There's really no need to use so much real estate for the old 8K chips.

And using a CR2032 battery instead of just writing the patches into flash? What was I thinking?

So there really is always a better way. It's just those sales/marketing departments that get in the way. I respect the Korg engineers. They have produced some of the best synthesizers of our time.

Mike.

From: zoinky420 <zoinky420@yahoo. com>
To: korgpolyex@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 7, 2009 9:11:09 PM
Subject: [korgpolyex] Re: Trying to date my MkI

--- In korgpolyex@yahoogro ups.com, Michael Hawkins
<korgpolyex800@ ...> wrote:
>
> Brian,
>
> there is no later firmware that supports SYSEX in the Poly-800.
>
> The only thing that was out there (until the HAWK-800 came along)
was the Korg MDK ROM kit.
>
> You can still find them, but they are very rare and they are an
absolute dog to install. Cut tracks everywhere, jumpers all over the
place. Not a pretty site and easy to screw up.
>
> If you want full SYSEX support, buy my kit!
>

It's pretty impressive that your kit not only has more features but
is also better designed. Is that because of access to more modern
parts, or are you just better than Korg?

BTW, I still plan on buying the aTomahawk, but when the canadian
dollar took a nose-dive I got cold feet. But it's creeping up again
and I'm more flush with cash so I intend to order it soon.

Re: [korgpolyex] Korg Prophecy

2009-01-08 by Daniel Forro

If you mean Prophecy, yes, I've got two pieces, and if my budget
would allow I would not hesitate to buy more of them. Great synt, in
my opinion underestimated. Polyphonic Z1 the same.

Try to get last OS version which was 1.7 I think. But there's no
problem with older ones. You can find lot of information about
Prophecy on Internet, as well as patches.

Daniel Forro

Show quoted textHide quoted text

On 9 Jan 2009, at 12:29 AM, Alex Drinkwater wrote:

> Slightly OT, I know, but talking of Korg products generally, do any
> list members happen to have a Korg Prophesy? I've always been
> intrigued by these, and I also like the idea of their small size (I
> have very limited space for music gear where I am at the moment).
>
> a|x
>

Re: [korgpolyex] Korg engineers vs Mike

2009-01-08 by electrohead2000@yahoo.com

I agree completely Mike. I've got a DW-8000, a Wavestation and a Poly mk1 and love them all.

You hit the nail on the head with regards to engineering. Engineers are low man on the totem pole in most businesses. Sales, marketing and accounting all have priority over engineering concerns. Sad but true.

Electrohead.

On Jan 8, 2009, at 9:41 AM, Michael Hawkins <korgpolyex800@...> wrote:

Trying to be nice to Korg here, I think that the MDK rom kit for the Poly-800 was someone in sales/marketing saying "how can you guys give the EX-800 sysex dump and not be able to do that in the Poly-800?".

And the engineers reply "look, the ROM storage is only 8K and there just isn't any space left in it for sysex".

Sales/marketing says "well, I don't care what you do, but you better make it available for the Poly-800".

So the engineers (who at this point have little interest in the Poly-800 because they're already working on the DW-8000 and are so far past their deadlines that they have to kludge the DW-6000 first) give the job to the new apprentice saying "I don't care how you do it, just make it happen within four weeks. We have more important things for you to be doing."

So the apprentice goes over to the software developers and they say "we're working on the DW-8000/6000, we don't give a damn about that silly Poly-800 anymore. So we are NOT, I repeat, NOT going to do anymore software development on that dang thing".

So the apprentice is stuck with making it happen while at the same time having to use any existing code.

So he designs a board that will work in the Poly-800MK1 but uses the same EPROM/code as used in the MK2 because he figures he can atleast get the developers to just disable the MK2 EQ and EFX code if he needs to.

Problem solved. Meanwhile, your Poly-800 looks like a bomb went off inside of it.

Whereas, I had the luxury of saying to myself "What is the best way I can think of to do this, I can do whatever I want!"

Mind you, a few savvy engineers have already pointed out some shortcomings of my engineering effort too. For example, I really should have used 62256 and 28C256 RAM and ROM chips. There's really no need to use so much real estate for the old 8K chips.

And using a CR2032 battery instead of just writing the patches into flash? What was I thinking?

So there really is always a better way. It's just those sales/marketing departments that get in the way. I respect the Korg engineers. They have produced some of the best synthesizers of our time.

Mike.

Show quoted textHide quoted text

From: zoinky420 <zoinky420@yahoo. com>
To: korgpolyex@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 7, 2009 9:11:09 PM
Subject: [korgpolyex] Re: Trying to date my MkI

--- In korgpolyex@yahoogro ups.com, Michael Hawkins
<korgpolyex800@ ...> wrote:
>
> Brian,
>
> there is no later firmware that supports SYSEX in the Poly-800.
>
> The only thing that was out there (until the HAWK-800 came along)
was the Korg MDK ROM kit.
>
> You can still find them, but they are very rare and they are an
absolute dog to install. Cut tracks everywhere, jumpers all over the
place. Not a pretty site and easy to screw up.
>
> If you want full SYSEX support, buy my kit!
>

It's pretty impressive that your kit not only has more features but
is also better designed. Is that because of access to more modern
parts, or are you just better than Korg?

BTW, I still plan on buying the aTomahawk, but when the canadian
dollar took a nose-dive I got cold feet. But it's creeping up again
and I'm more flush with cash so I intend to order it soon.

Re: [korgpolyex] Korg Prophecy

2009-01-08 by Alex Drinkwater

Hiya!

On 8 Jan 2009, at 16:37, Daniel Forro wrote:

> If you mean Prophecy, yes

Ooops, yeah. Sorry for the mis-spelling.

> I've got two pieces, and if my budget
> would allow I would not hesitate to buy more of them. Great synt, in
> my opinion underestimated.

Cool, thanks for the info!

a|x

> Polyphonic Z1 the same.
>
> Try to get last OS version which was 1.7 I think. But there's no
> problem with older ones. You can find lot of information about
> Prophecy on Internet, as well as patches.
>
> Daniel Forro
>
>
> On 9 Jan 2009, at 12:29 AM, Alex Drinkwater wrote:
>
>> Slightly OT, I know, but talking of Korg products generally, do any
>> list members happen to have a Korg Prophesy? I've always been
>> intrigued by these, and I also like the idea of their small size (I
>> have very limited space for music gear where I am at the moment).
>>
>> a|x
>>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Re: [korgpolyex] Korg engineers vs Mike

2009-01-08 by Atom Smasher

On Thu, 8 Jan 2009, Alex Drinkwater wrote:

> Oh, I'm not looking to buy one at the moment, just wondered if any of
> you guys had one, and had any comments on it. They seem to come up on
> eBay UK quite regularly.

===================

look for an AM8000r. AFAIK it's the effect section from the trinity in a
1U box. a great compliment to a poly800, and anything else that doesn't
have good built-in multi-effects.

--
...atom

________________________
http://atom.smasher.org/
762A 3B98 A3C3 96C9 C6B7 582A B88D 52E4 D9F5 7808
-------------------------------------------------

"Everyone thinks of changing the world,
but no one thinks of changing himself."
-- Tolstoy

RE: [korgpolyex] Korg engineers vs Mike

2009-01-09 by LARRY HAWKE

I'm running my Poly 800 through a D1600...lots of great FX and a pretty good EQ/gate section. I get that little arp in Alan Parson's "Sirius" nearly perfect with the sequencer and some delay. Sounds great! The 120 watt Behringer keyboard amp helps a little... ;^)

To: korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com
From: atom@...
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 12:17:46 +1300
Subject: Re: [korgpolyex] Korg engineers vs Mike

On Thu, 8 Jan 2009, Alex Drinkwater wrote:

> Oh, I'm not looking to buy one at the moment, just wondered if any of
> you guys had one, and had any comments on it. They seem to come up on
> eBay UK quite regularly.
============ =======

look for an AM8000r. AFAIK it's the effect section from the trinity in a
1U box. a great compliment to a poly800, and anything else that doesn't
have good built-in multi-effects.

--
...atom

____________ _________ ___
http://atom. smasher.org/
762A 3B98 A3C3 96C9 C6B7 582A B88D 52E4 D9F5 7808
------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- -

"Everyone thinks of changing the world,
but no one thinks of changing himself."
-- Tolstoy

Re: Korg engineers vs Mike

2009-01-09 by Brian Rost

I've worked as an electrical engineer for 28 years so I'm well acquainted with the problems of
support and upgrades for older products. The design team is too busy on the new product,
the support group lacks the resources, etc.

If the MDK is as much of a kludge as I'm reading I'd guess Korg got an awful lot of heat from
dealers and customers to even offer it. Did they ship any MkIs with the MDK installed at the
factory?

Nowadays we are so spoiled with upgrades and updates for free that we expect it even
though the mfr gets no return on their investment unless they are continuing to ship the
product.

Re: [korgpolyex] Re: Korg engineers vs Mike

2009-01-09 by Michael Hawkins

I don't think Korg shipped any Poly MK1's with the MDK since production of the MK1 had ceased before the MDK kit came out.

If you're looking for an upgrade so that your Poly MK1 has sysex functions then you have two options.

i) try to find an MDK rom kit (very difficult to find) and shell out 20-30 bucks for it (cheap), then go hack your Poly up (not good) and get one single sysex bulk dump (better than nothing I guess).
ii) buy the HAWK-800 upgrade kit (easy to find) and shell out 99 bucks for it (not that cheap), then go make a nice installation (good) and get lots of new functions (really cool).

If you haven't already done so, check out the web site.

http://patrioticduo.tripod.com/hawk800

especially the "Features Completed" page

http://patrioticduo.tripod.com/hawk800/FeaturesCompleted.html

:-)

Mike.

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From: Brian Rost <hubcapbrian@...>
To: korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, January 9, 2009 9:00:38 AM
Subject: [korgpolyex] Re: Korg engineers vs Mike

I've worked as an electrical engineer for 28 years so I'm well acquainted with the problems of
support and upgrades for older products. The design team is too busy on the new product,
the support group lacks the resources, etc.

If the MDK is as much of a kludge as I'm reading I'd guess Korg got an awful lot of heat from
dealers and customers to even offer it. Did they ship any MkIs with the MDK installed at the
factory?

Nowadays we are so spoiled with upgrades and updates for free that we expect it even
though the mfr gets no return on their investment unless they are continuing to ship the
product.

Re: [korgpolyex] Re: Korg engineers vs Mike

2009-01-09 by Alexandre Souza

> If you're looking for an upgrade so that your Poly MK1 has sysex functions
> then you have two options.

Three. You can install an EX-800 ROM and switch it using the most
sigificant adderess line. That is what I used on my old poly 800. But it is
way boring to be switching to/from the original rom every time you need a
sysex dump.

Cmon people, $99 is like free for a product like mike's one!

Alexandre!

Re: [korgpolyex] Re: Korg engineers vs Mike

2009-01-09 by Atom Smasher

On Fri, 9 Jan 2009, Brian Rost wrote:

> Nowadays we are so spoiled with upgrades and updates for free that we
> expect it even though the mfr gets no return on their investment unless
> they are continuing to ship the product.

=====================

not necessarily...

let's look at two examples: a sony HR-MP5 and a kawai SX-240. i've had
both with old OSes, the sony a few years after it was discontinued, the
kawai *many* years since it was discontinued.

i called sony, and after spending hours trying to find a department where
anyone even had access to verify that such a thing as an HR-MP5 was, at
some point, made by sony, and even getting through to an engineering
group, i was no closer to getting an updated PROM. customer service from
roland, yamaha, korg, etc are in this league.

compare that to kawai... i called their toll-free number, within a minute
i was talking to troy, their US product specialist (i was in NJ at the
time). i gave him my address, he sent me an updated EPROM for the SX-240
and requested that i send back the old EPROM so the can re-use it, which i
was more than happy to do. i could also mention that, a few years (???)
after the k5000 was discontinued i brought a bug to troy's attention, and
shortly afterwards (a week or so?) they released an upgrade (OS 4.04,
which is somewhat fitting as the final OS for the last synth they ever
made).

of course, kawai no longer makes synths, but if i were deciding between a
new roland synth and a new kawai synth, the customer service would steer
me towards kawai.

so overall i would say that this level of support can't (and shouldn't) be
measured in terms of ROI like marketing & advertising, but rather in
indirect terms of customer loyalty and customer retention.... which in the
long run as a much better return than marketing & advertising.

another factor is just that the technology now makes it feasible for end
users to upgrade their toys without the need for a screwdriver, so any
company that's not on board that train is shooting themselves in the foot.
holding out a software update just because someone bought in early is
*really* dumb... if the update is available, the smart thing to do is give
it away. access (virus) took that to a (presumably) profitable level by
offering software upgrades for free, and anyone could upgrade to the level
that their hardware supported... but they also offered hardware upgrades
for a fee.

--
...atom

________________________
http://atom.smasher.org/
762A 3B98 A3C3 96C9 C6B7 582A B88D 52E4 D9F5 7808
-------------------------------------------------

"Sometimes I think we're alone in the universe,
and sometimes I think we're not.
In either case the idea is quite staggering."
-- Arthur C. Clarke

Re: [korgpolyex] Re: Korg engineers vs Mike

2009-01-09 by Atom Smasher

On Fri, 9 Jan 2009, Alexandre Souza wrote:

> Cmon people, $99 is like free for a product like mike's one!

===================

to put that into perspective... it's like turning the poly800 into a whole
new synthesizer for $100, and you probably already have a poly800.

if anyone knows where i can get another synth with comparable specs and
sound (including my hardware mods) for the same or better price than a
poly800 ($50-100US?) and a hawk kit ($99US)... that's about $150-200US
total... *PLEASE* let me know!!

or you could spend $3000 on a new & shiny,latest & greatest ROMpler... and
among the things you won't get, is you won't be on a mailing list talking
to the guy who's ADDING the features that we're asking for!

yeah, i'll agree that it's worth the $$$.

--
...atom

________________________
http://atom.smasher.org/
762A 3B98 A3C3 96C9 C6B7 582A B88D 52E4 D9F5 7808
-------------------------------------------------

"The proper time to influence the character of a
child is about a hundred years before he's born."
-- William R. Inge (1913-1973)