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SP12 fails!!! - - - why always me :-(

SP12 fails!!! - - - why always me :-(

2003-04-28 by the_emulatorii

hey rob - i´ll surely keep the questions coming!!!!

i have spent a night learning to program the sp12  - i enjoyed this 
very much, because i am already very much into my drumulator. during 
the session i learned all about the sp12´s improovements compared to 
the drumulator - especially in terms of programing - and it is soooo 
easy to hanbdle that i can be really creative with it (i do best 
when i don´t need to think a lot  about things examplle: i have my 
difficulties beeing creative with my dx7-II-FD for those reasons)

but never mind - i have some problems with the sp12:

discription: 
there are the 8 drum-play-buttons to access the sounds on the sp12.
most of the time they work great but sometimes it occurs, that the 
drum sounds aren´t played back correctly. 

example: yesterday i wanted to show the sp12 to my girlfriend
switched it on and all the drumsounds in the first bank worked 
except of the two snares - when i hit the corresponding drum-play-
button all we could hear was a strangely distorted digital 
crackeling, which nearly blew my studio-monitors...

but it HAS worked before, so it is no permanent failure. 

i haven´t found out when exactly the problem occurs, or what happens 
when i try to place a user sound on one of the failing drum-play-
buttons, but i have tried switching the unit off and on again, 
cleared-all-data, ect. - this didn´t solve the problem...


what would you say, rob??? 

thanx, simon

Re: SP12 fails!!! - - - why always me :-(

2003-04-29 by the_emulatorii

i have tried it again today... 

looks like these noisy sounds have now become a permanent error on 
my sp12. when i switched it on again today, there were the same 
things going wrong as yesterday. i can say more about the problem 
now, because i have tested a few things:

- tried to put user sounds on the "failing" drum-buttons, that works 
fine. i also have a list of all the factory-drums making the 
described problems. 

snare1 (completely)
snare2 (completely)
ride1  (completely)
ride2  (completely)
crash  (just a slight bit of the end)

i have recorded the failure and will send you an email, with an mp3 
attached. you can answer me via email if you want - or in the forum, 
depending on your oppinion wether this could be of any interest for 
other users... 

thanx in advance and please don´t destroy all my hopes of me, 
eventually haveing all my emu´s working 100% - ok :-(

simon





--- In emulatorII-list@yahoogroups.com, "the_emulatorii" 
<epiphone@y...> wrote:
> hey rob - i´ll surely keep the questions coming!!!!
> 
> i have spent a night learning to program the sp12  - i enjoyed 
this 
> very much, because i am already very much into my drumulator. 
during 
> the session i learned all about the sp12´s improovements compared 
to 
> the drumulator - especially in terms of programing - and it is 
soooo 
> easy to hanbdle that i can be really creative with it (i do best 
> when i don´t need to think a lot  about things examplle: i have my 
> difficulties beeing creative with my dx7-II-FD for those reasons)
> 
> but never mind - i have some problems with the sp12:
> 
> discription: 
> there are the 8 drum-play-buttons to access the sounds on the sp12.
> most of the time they work great but sometimes it occurs, that the 
> drum sounds aren´t played back correctly. 
> 
> example: yesterday i wanted to show the sp12 to my girlfriend
> switched it on and all the drumsounds in the first bank worked 
> except of the two snares - when i hit the corresponding drum-play-
> button all we could hear was a strangely distorted digital 
> crackeling, which nearly blew my studio-monitors...
> 
> but it HAS worked before, so it is no permanent failure. 
> 
> i haven´t found out when exactly the problem occurs, or what 
happens 
> when i try to place a user sound on one of the failing drum-play-
> buttons, but i have tried switching the unit off and on again, 
> cleared-all-data, ect. - this didn´t solve the problem...
> 
> 
> what would you say, rob??? 
> 
> thanx, simon

RE: [emulatorII-list] Re: SP12 fails!!! - - - why always me :-(

2003-04-29 by Rob Keeble

Hi,
First check to see if the problem is on one particular channel (listen to
the individual outs with ROM and RAM sounds). If ROM and RAM sounds always
cause problems on a channel then its a sample replay problem in the analog
circuit for that channel.

If all the RAM sounds are always okay and some of the ROM sounds are
distorted/high pitched, particularly if mid way through - then suspect the
factory EPROM's. EPROM chips do eventually die (yes including the EII and
SP-12 boot EPROM's....). You can easily get a new set of EPROM's burnt by a
service centre - I have the binaries. Some E1 users have already encountered
boot ROM death, and EII users will see this happening over the next 5 - 10
years. Lucky we have all the EPROM binaries available to recreate them!

A service centre would also swap the sample EPROM's about to see if the
problem is the chip or the replay electronics. Please don't attempt repairs
without thr right equipment/training and the power OFF.

Rather Off Topic...if any one is interested in the factory SP-12 samples in
LM-4 format....let me know!

Regards
Rob
www.emulatorarchive.com

i have tried it again today...

looks like these noisy sounds have now become a permanent error on
my sp12. when i switched it on again today, there were the same
things going wrong as yesterday. i can say more about the problem
now, because i have tested a few things:

- tried to put user sounds on the "failing" drum-buttons, that works
fine. i also have a list of all the factory-drums making the
described problems.

snare1 (completely)
snare2 (completely)
ride1  (completely)
ride2  (completely)
crash  (just a slight bit of the end)

i have recorded the failure and will send you an email, with an mp3
attached. you can answer me via email if you want - or in the forum,
depending on your oppinion wether this could be of any interest for
other users...

thanx in advance and please don\ufffdt destroy all my hopes of me,
eventually haveing all my emu\ufffds working 100% - ok :-(

simon

Re: [emulatorII-list] Re: SP12 fails!!! - - - why always me :-(

2003-04-30 by Simon Wotton

hey rob!!!

here is what the former owner of the sp12 had to say to the problem. 
meanwhile it has worked again: yesterday everything was fine and so 
i gave it a "one-day-test-run" - had it on all day, it got quite warm (like 
all my other emus :-) but did the job. lets see what happens when i 
power on again today...

here the email from the former user:

Simon:

I'm sorry to hear this is happening.  When I bought the SP-12 in
1998, it had a dead internal backup memory battery, and as a result would
not hold user samples in memory for more than a minute or so after power
off.  I also experienced the strange distortion noises at that time if I
powered off and on again after a few minutes, but the distortion went away
after clearing all memory once powered on.  This lead me to believe the
distortion was due to the dead internal battery, since the ROM sounds are
loaded into RAM, similar to the user samples, but are not automatically
reloaded into RAM on each power up to avoid overwriting a user sample that
might have been previously placed in one of the factory sound bank
locations.  So I concluded the distortion was due to corruption of the RAM
data after power off and capacitors discharging, etc. due to no backup
memory power from the dead battery.  What is confusing to me about the
problem you are experiencing is that after I recently replaced the
internal battery I didn't experience the distortion problem anymore after
powering off and on again later, and the user samples held their memory as
well.  Before I packed the SP-12 to ship it I powered it up to do a final
check of everything (including obscure features like the cassette save and
SMPTE functions), and to do a final recording of the SP-12 sounds using a
high quality sound card I got a few months ago, to make a mini sample
library for myself, and I didn't experience any problems.

Since you mentioned you tried clearing all memory and that didn't work,
one idea I can think of at the moment is perhaps to wait 5-10 minutes
after the SP-12 is powered on, then clear all memory and try the sounds.
Perhaps a warm up time may be useful, but this is a guess, but let me know
the result.  Also, if you have a voltmeter and feel comfortable opening up
the SP-12, with the power off and power cord disconnected you can measure
the voltage of the internal battery (yellow cylinder type).  It should be
above 2.5 V or so.  Be sure to ground yourself or simply touch the metal
frame before probing with the voltmeter to avoid static discharge.

Nate




  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Rob Keeble 
  To: emulatorII-list@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 11:11 PM
  Subject: RE: [emulatorII-list] Re: SP12 fails!!! - - - why always me :-(


  Hi,
  First check to see if the problem is on one particular channel (listen to
  the individual outs with ROM and RAM sounds). If ROM and RAM sounds always
  cause problems on a channel then its a sample replay problem in the analog
  circuit for that channel.

  If all the RAM sounds are always okay and some of the ROM sounds are
  distorted/high pitched, particularly if mid way through - then suspect the
  factory EPROM's. EPROM chips do eventually die (yes including the EII and
  SP-12 boot EPROM's....). You can easily get a new set of EPROM's burnt by a
  service centre - I have the binaries. Some E1 users have already encountered
  boot ROM death, and EII users will see this happening over the next 5 - 10
  years. Lucky we have all the EPROM binaries available to recreate them!

  A service centre would also swap the sample EPROM's about to see if the
  problem is the chip or the replay electronics. Please don't attempt repairs
  without thr right equipment/training and the power OFF.

  Rather Off Topic...if any one is interested in the factory SP-12 samples in
  LM-4 format....let me know!

  Regards
  Rob
  www.emulatorarchive.com

  i have tried it again today...

  looks like these noisy sounds have now become a permanent error on
  my sp12. when i switched it on again today, there were the same
  things going wrong as yesterday. i can say more about the problem
  now, because i have tested a few things:

  - tried to put user sounds on the "failing" drum-buttons, that works
  fine. i also have a list of all the factory-drums making the
  described problems.

  snare1 (completely)
  snare2 (completely)
  ride1  (completely)
  ride2  (completely)
  crash  (just a slight bit of the end)

  i have recorded the failure and will send you an email, with an mp3
  attached. you can answer me via email if you want - or in the forum,
  depending on your oppinion wether this could be of any interest for
  other users...

  thanx in advance and please don´t destroy all my hopes of me,
  eventually haveing all my emu´s working 100% - ok :-(

  simon



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: SP12 fails!!! - - - why always me :-(

2003-04-30 by the_emulatorii

everything ok - worked great - just like yesterday!!!
 
i have tried all outputs - they work, so it must be the factory 
eproms failing slowly but surely. if there isn´t a risk of damaging 
the sp12 i would rather wait until the eproms eventually die out 
completely, before we start replacing them. 
 
if you haven´t got anything to add, we can close the topic!!!

AND START A NEW ONE!!!!
 
 





--- In emulatorII-list@yahoogroups.com, "Simon Wotton" 
<simonabsent@g...> wrote:
> hey rob!!!
> 
> here is what the former owner of the sp12 had to say to the 
problem. 
> meanwhile it has worked again: yesterday everything was fine and 
so 
> i gave it a "one-day-test-run" - had it on all day, it got quite 
warm (like 
> all my other emus :-) but did the job. lets see what happens when 
i 
> power on again today...
> 
> here the email from the former user:
> 
> Simon:
> 
> I'm sorry to hear this is happening.  When I bought the SP-12 in
> 1998, it had a dead internal backup memory battery, and as a 
result would
> not hold user samples in memory for more than a minute or so after 
power
> off.  I also experienced the strange distortion noises at that 
time if I
> powered off and on again after a few minutes, but the distortion 
went away
> after clearing all memory once powered on.  This lead me to 
believe the
> distortion was due to the dead internal battery, since the ROM 
sounds are
> loaded into RAM, similar to the user samples, but are not 
automatically
> reloaded into RAM on each power up to avoid overwriting a user 
sample that
> might have been previously placed in one of the factory sound bank
> locations.  So I concluded the distortion was due to corruption of 
the RAM
> data after power off and capacitors discharging, etc. due to no 
backup
> memory power from the dead battery.  What is confusing to me about 
the
> problem you are experiencing is that after I recently replaced the
> internal battery I didn't experience the distortion problem 
anymore after
> powering off and on again later, and the user samples held their 
memory as
> well.  Before I packed the SP-12 to ship it I powered it up to do 
a final
> check of everything (including obscure features like the cassette 
save and
> SMPTE functions), and to do a final recording of the SP-12 sounds 
using a
> high quality sound card I got a few months ago, to make a mini 
sample
> library for myself, and I didn't experience any problems.
> 
> Since you mentioned you tried clearing all memory and that didn't 
work,
> one idea I can think of at the moment is perhaps to wait 5-10 
minutes
> after the SP-12 is powered on, then clear all memory and try the 
sounds.
> Perhaps a warm up time may be useful, but this is a guess, but let 
me know
> the result.  Also, if you have a voltmeter and feel comfortable 
opening up
> the SP-12, with the power off and power cord disconnected you can 
measure
> the voltage of the internal battery (yellow cylinder type).  It 
should be
> above 2.5 V or so.  Be sure to ground yourself or simply touch the 
metal
> frame before probing with the voltmeter to avoid static discharge.
> 
> Nate
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Rob Keeble 
>   To: emulatorII-list@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 11:11 PM
>   Subject: RE: [emulatorII-list] Re: SP12 fails!!! - - - why 
always me :-(
> 
> 
>   Hi,
>   First check to see if the problem is on one particular channel 
(listen to
>   the individual outs with ROM and RAM sounds). If ROM and RAM 
sounds always
>   cause problems on a channel then its a sample replay problem in 
the analog
>   circuit for that channel.
> 
>   If all the RAM sounds are always okay and some of the ROM sounds 
are
>   distorted/high pitched, particularly if mid way through - then 
suspect the
>   factory EPROM's. EPROM chips do eventually die (yes including 
the EII and
>   SP-12 boot EPROM's....). You can easily get a new set of EPROM's 
burnt by a
>   service centre - I have the binaries. Some E1 users have already 
encountered
>   boot ROM death, and EII users will see this happening over the 
next 5 - 10
>   years. Lucky we have all the EPROM binaries available to 
recreate them!
> 
>   A service centre would also swap the sample EPROM's about to see 
if the
>   problem is the chip or the replay electronics. Please don't 
attempt repairs
>   without thr right equipment/training and the power OFF.
> 
>   Rather Off Topic...if any one is interested in the factory SP-12 
samples in
>   LM-4 format....let me know!
> 
>   Regards
>   Rob
>   www.emulatorarchive.com
> 
>   i have tried it again today...
> 
>   looks like these noisy sounds have now become a permanent error 
on
>   my sp12. when i switched it on again today, there were the same
>   things going wrong as yesterday. i can say more about the problem
>   now, because i have tested a few things:
> 
>   - tried to put user sounds on the "failing" drum-buttons, that 
works
>   fine. i also have a list of all the factory-drums making the
>   described problems.
> 
>   snare1 (completely)
>   snare2 (completely)
>   ride1  (completely)
>   ride2  (completely)
>   crash  (just a slight bit of the end)
> 
>   i have recorded the failure and will send you an email, with an 
mp3
>   attached. you can answer me via email if you want - or in the 
forum,
>   depending on your oppinion wether this could be of any interest 
for
>   other users...
> 
>   thanx in advance and please don´t destroy all my hopes of me,
>   eventually haveing all my emu´s working 100% - ok :-(
> 
>   simon
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]