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EII Portmap available?

EII Portmap available?

2007-12-03 by hoschi1103

Hi everybody,

as I'm new to this group, let me introduce myself.

I started playing around with the EII in May last year, when I finally
got one for a good price on the bay. After a complete cleaning and
some maintenance, it works like a charm now. But from the beginning, I
was deeply dissatisfied that I could not read the disks with any other
(more recent) machine to save this valuable data :-) I made contact to
J. Schönfeld of individual Computers, the maker of the catweasel
board, and provided him with as much information and disks as I could,
to have him include the format to his drivers. Unfortunatly, this
didn't happen until now. So I dug out my last years x-mas project to
disassemble and reverse engineer the way the EII reads and writes disks.

For this reason, I'm looking for a portmap of the EII, if anybody has
done that so far. And, of course any other information you can share.
It's quite a hassle to work through the schematics, and why invent the
wheel a second time :-)

Greetings,
Hoschi

Re: EII Portmap available?

2007-12-03 by elmbeatz

Hi!

Take a look at EMXP:
http://users.skynet.be/emxp/

It's a very valuable tool to exchange different vintage E-Mu formats,
as well as building disk images from scratch.

There's been a new version coming out just recently. But the EII still
is (as far as I know) the only device which can format disks for itself. 
If you want to backup your disks, or your library, I guess you need an
old mac with sound designer for EII running. You should then be able
to   export your banks to the mac and put them on external media like
zip disks. And the other way round of course ;) A list of compatible
macs and OS can be found in this groups database. The Sound Designer
tool is a must have by the way...

P.S.: Are you german?

Hope this helps..
Greetings,
Elm.

Re: EII Portmap available?

2007-12-03 by hoschi1103

Oh, you noticed my accent :-)

SD on MAC and stuff I did already.

Wanting to read the disks straight from a PC floppy drive is the same
as my efforts in analyzing "Mac Mode". I want to do it because it's there.

From last nights results, it looks like EII is writing data to disk
straight sequential, without any other information, just by counting
the data and switching heads or advancing the track (should think so,
as it's using a SIO as floppy drive controller and that would be the
easiest way). Currently I'm counting out where on disk the overlays
end and the banks begin.

By the way, any idea about a mac emulator that handles serial forward
to the PCs serial port with a bit more timing precision than basilisk?

Greetings,
Hoschi

Re: EII Portmap available?

2007-12-03 by esynthesist

Hi there,

The EII formats the floppy disks with 2 sides of 80 tracks, each 
having 3584 bytes (probably one big sector).
This is 560K on a disk on which DOS only formatted 360K. 
It's pretty sure that this massive capacity is only possible by NOT 
putting physical header/gap zones between sectors (of e.g. 512K) and 
that may be the reason why a PC can not read them.

These disks hold both the OS and the soundbank. The 476K of sounddata 
are written sequentially on the disk immediately after the OS area, 
and has exactly the same layout as the SoundDesigner for Emulator II 
files. So if you want this part of the disk, just unload them with SD 
on a Mac. 
If you want to get the OS part, you'll need to find a way to read the 
disks on a PC...
...something no one ever succeeded in the last 20 years.

This is due to this softsectored 3584 byte tracks, which is not a 
sectorsize known by a PC floppycontroller.
Another issue may be the rotation speed of the drive, which may be 
different from a PC's drive (controller command). Although I'm not 
sure about this, because I haven't heard yet of two different speeds 
available in 5.25 drives - I think they were all 360rpm. But it's a 
known problem with some 3.5 drives (e.g. the CASIO FZ series suffers 
from this problem). Anyway, the Catweasel controller is capable of 
different speeds, so that may be a solution if the problem really 
exists. 

I have also tried to read EII disks on my PC's (with 5.25 drives) but 
was unsuccessful until now. But I was planning to do some new 
experiments in the near future... only because of the challenge since 
SDII is for sure a much better way to keep an archive then reading 
the floppies !

Good luck

///E-Synthesist

  



--- In emulatorII-list@yahoogroups.com, "hoschi1103" <totti@...> 
wrote:
>
> Oh, you noticed my accent :-)
> 
> SD on MAC and stuff I did already.
> 
> Wanting to read the disks straight from a PC floppy drive is the 
same
> as my efforts in analyzing "Mac Mode". I want to do it because it's 
there.
> 
> From last nights results, it looks like EII is writing data to disk
> straight sequential, without any other information, just by counting
> the data and switching heads or advancing the track (should think 
so,
> as it's using a SIO as floppy drive controller and that would be the
> easiest way). Currently I'm counting out where on disk the overlays
> end and the banks begin.
> 
> By the way, any idea about a mac emulator that handles serial 
forward
> to the PCs serial port with a bit more timing precision than 
basilisk?
> 
> Greetings,
> Hoschi
>

Re: EII Portmap available?

2007-12-03 by hoschi1103

Hi again,

the speed is 300 rpm, selected in PC by the density line. Try to
isolate pin no 2 of the bus connector in your PCs TEAC drive and set
'I' and 'LG' on the drive to make it spin at 300 always.

For the overlays, as I could see until now, they definitely start
after Track 0/Head 1. I think Track 0/0+1 is loading some small
overlay to determine the handling of Preset- and Librarydisks. At
least it looks like from the code (MAIN) which is only loading this
track from disk. Any other steps of the head position on the disk can
not be found in the main code (or I missed a branch). Beginning of the
MAIN code is for Init, including 'self-test', which is only a check
for the correct response on the IN ports (better say their values
written to static RAM from 2000H after Memory has been initialized)
within a specified time. Some small part is for handling Memory
Controller Init and most of the rest is handling the disk and checking
for several error states.

Notice that this disk control only starts after inserting a disk,
without, it loops around 09C2 (with the string "Insert Diskette"),
during which it is straight checking a bit at a memory offset not yet
known. It seems to be the same offset(s) used during the 'self-test',
so in fact the initial drive 'self-test' is only a check for 'a piece
of metal on a strap'.

Just at the moment, I'm working out this address which I suppose
resides in the static memory, mapped from I/O area (or just one of its
pins as for the bitcheck) of the SIO, and the ports for the SIO, which
I suppose is on port 30H and 31H, as these are the only ports accessed
with DI (disable interrupt) set. 

If you try to read out Track 0 as a sequence only, without looking for
any format, it could show some data. I can't say anything about the
EII disk timing, so try increasing ticks after the index hole trigger.

And, does anybody have a catweasel MK4 which I could buy? They seem to
be sold out (again)...

Greetings,
Hoschi

--- In emulatorII-list@yahoogroups.com, "esynthesist"
<esynthesist@...> wrote:
>
> Hi there,
> 
> The EII formats the floppy disks with 2 sides of 80 tracks, each 
> having 3584 bytes (probably one big sector).
> This is 560K on a disk on which DOS only formatted 360K. 
> It's pretty sure that this massive capacity is only possible by NOT 
> putting physical header/gap zones between sectors (of e.g. 512K) and 
> that may be the reason why a PC can not read them.
> 
> These disks hold both the OS and the soundbank. The 476K of sounddata 
> are written sequentially on the disk immediately after the OS area, 
> and has exactly the same layout as the SoundDesigner for Emulator II 
> files. So if you want this part of the disk, just unload them with SD 
> on a Mac. 
> If you want to get the OS part, you'll need to find a way to read the 
> disks on a PC...
> ...something no one ever succeeded in the last 20 years.
> 
> This is due to this softsectored 3584 byte tracks, which is not a 
> sectorsize known by a PC floppycontroller.
> Another issue may be the rotation speed of the drive, which may be 
> different from a PC's drive (controller command). Although I'm not 
> sure about this, because I haven't heard yet of two different speeds 
> available in 5.25 drives - I think they were all 360rpm. But it's a 
> known problem with some 3.5 drives (e.g. the CASIO FZ series suffers 
> from this problem). Anyway, the Catweasel controller is capable of 
> different speeds, so that may be a solution if the problem really 
> exists. 
> 
> I have also tried to read EII disks on my PC's (with 5.25 drives) but 
> was unsuccessful until now. But I was planning to do some new 
> experiments in the near future... only because of the challenge since 
> SDII is for sure a much better way to keep an archive then reading 
> the floppies !
> 
> Good luck
> 
> ///E-Synthesist
> 
>   
>

Re: EII Portmap available?

2007-12-17 by hoschi1103

Hi all,

as far as I'm through the code and after some experiments, I'm quite
sure that there must be track numbers on the disk. On loading a bank
from disk, a wrong read in value (not in sequence) after changing a
track leads to a "Disk Read Error" string output.

Overlays have fixed positions on disk, although I couldn't make out
which track holds which overlay or where the list with the positions
comes from.

Currently I'm stuck in simulating the CPUs as I can not emulate the
interaction between the two. My Z80 Sim does only support one CPU.

Very interesting, there is a complete monitor for debugging all
registers and CPU state of the Scanner CPU in the Scanner ROM, but
some of the code for activating it is NOPed out. I didn't dive in it
yet but if I read the code correctly, it was once used via a terminal
on the serial port and activated with a control byte sent to EMU while
one of the control lines was active. In the far future, I might have
an idea on how to reactivate it.

If anybody has dumps of older versions of the ROMs, I would be really
glad if you could send them to me :-)

The Scanner ROM is much more interesting than the Main ROM, as there
are many tricks used in initialising the EMU II memory, including copy
of often used code fragments from ROM to memory for, as I think,
saving disk space for the overlays loaded later... 

And, as I asked before:

DOES ANYBODY HAVE a catweasel MK IV or can arrange a sale?
 
Greetings,
Hoschi

--- In emulatorII-list@yahoogroups.com, "esynthesist"
<esynthesist@...> wrote:
>
> Hi there,
> 
> The EII formats the floppy disks with 2 sides of 80 tracks, each 
> having 3584 bytes (probably one big sector).
> This is 560K on a disk on which DOS only formatted 360K. 
> It's pretty sure that this massive capacity is only possible by NOT 
> putting physical header/gap zones between sectors (of e.g. 512K) and 
> that may be the reason why a PC can not read them.
> 
> These disks hold both the OS and the soundbank. The 476K of sounddata 
> are written sequentially on the disk immediately after the OS area, 
> and has exactly the same layout as the SoundDesigner for Emulator II 
> files. So if you want this part of the disk, just unload them with SD 
> on a Mac. 
> If you want to get the OS part, you'll need to find a way to read the 
> disks on a PC...
> ...something no one ever succeeded in the last 20 years.
> 
> This is due to this softsectored 3584 byte tracks, which is not a 
> sectorsize known by a PC floppycontroller.
> Another issue may be the rotation speed of the drive, which may be 
> different from a PC's drive (controller command). Although I'm not 
> sure about this, because I haven't heard yet of two different speeds 
> available in 5.25 drives - I think they were all 360rpm. But it's a 
> known problem with some 3.5 drives (e.g. the CASIO FZ series suffers 
> from this problem). Anyway, the Catweasel controller is capable of 
> different speeds, so that may be a solution if the problem really 
> exists. 
> 
> I have also tried to read EII disks on my PC's (with 5.25 drives) but 
> was unsuccessful until now. But I was planning to do some new 
> experiments in the near future... only because of the challenge since 
> SDII is for sure a much better way to keep an archive then reading 
> the floppies !
> 
> Good luck
> 
> ///E-Synthesist
>

SV: [emulatorII-list] Re: EII Portmap available?

2007-12-17 by Marko Laukka

Check this link for a catweasel MK4:
   
  http://www.softhut.com/cgi-bin/test/Web_store/web_store.cgi?page=catalog/hardware/accelerators/catweaselmkiv.html&cart_id=6287774_88947
   
  I know that vesalia Computer's out of stock for the moment.
   
  /Marko

hoschi1103 <totti@...> skrev:
          Hi all,

as far as I'm through the code and after some experiments, I'm quite
sure that there must be track numbers on the disk. On loading a bank
from disk, a wrong read in value (not in sequence) after changing a
track leads to a "Disk Read Error" string output.

Overlays have fixed positions on disk, although I couldn't make out
which track holds which overlay or where the list with the positions
comes from.

Currently I'm stuck in simulating the CPUs as I can not emulate the
interaction between the two. My Z80 Sim does only support one CPU.

Very interesting, there is a complete monitor for debugging all
registers and CPU state of the Scanner CPU in the Scanner ROM, but
some of the code for activating it is NOPed out. I didn't dive in it
yet but if I read the code correctly, it was once used via a terminal
on the serial port and activated with a control byte sent to EMU while
one of the control lines was active. In the far future, I might have
an idea on how to reactivate it.

If anybody has dumps of older versions of the ROMs, I would be really
glad if you could send them to me :-)

The Scanner ROM is much more interesting than the Main ROM, as there
are many tricks used in initialising the EMU II memory, including copy
of often used code fragments from ROM to memory for, as I think,
saving disk space for the overlays loaded later... 

And, as I asked before:

DOES ANYBODY HAVE a catweasel MK IV or can arrange a sale?

Greetings,
Hoschi

--- In emulatorII-list@yahoogroups.com, "esynthesist"
<esynthesist@...> wrote:
>
> Hi there,
> 
> The EII formats the floppy disks with 2 sides of 80 tracks, each 
> having 3584 bytes (probably one big sector).
> This is 560K on a disk on which DOS only formatted 360K. 
> It's pretty sure that this massive capacity is only possible by NOT 
> putting physical header/gap zones between sectors (of e.g. 512K) and 
> that may be the reason why a PC can not read them.
> 
> These disks hold both the OS and the soundbank. The 476K of sounddata 
> are written sequentially on the disk immediately after the OS area, 
> and has exactly the same layout as the SoundDesigner for Emulator II 
> files. So if you want this part of the disk, just unload them with SD 
> on a Mac. 
> If you want to get the OS part, you'll need to find a way to read the 
> disks on a PC...
> ...something no one ever succeeded in the last 20 years.
> 
> This is due to this softsectored 3584 byte tracks, which is not a 
> sectorsize known by a PC floppycontroller.
> Another issue may be the rotation speed of the drive, which may be 
> different from a PC's drive (controller command). Although I'm not 
> sure about this, because I haven't heard yet of two different speeds 
> available in 5.25 drives - I think they were all 360rpm. But it's a 
> known problem with some 3.5 drives (e.g. the CASIO FZ series suffers 
> from this problem). Anyway, the Catweasel controller is capable of 
> different speeds, so that may be a solution if the problem really 
> exists. 
> 
> I have also tried to read EII disks on my PC's (with 5.25 drives) but 
> was unsuccessful until now. But I was planning to do some new 
> experiments in the near future... only because of the challenge since 
> SDII is for sure a much better way to keep an archive then reading 
> the floppies !
> 
> Good luck
> 
> ///E-Synthesist
> 



                         

       
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