Elektron Musical Instruments

Hi all,

I've been using energy XT for a bit now and I was wondering if anyone 
in here had successfully worked with it and the Machinedrum ?

I can't sync them up (tempo is a bit out of whack), my only 
alternative is to use Cubase and eXT as a VST for now.
 

If you don't know XT it's really worth to check it out

http://www.xt-hq.com/


Regards.
R.

On Wed, Sep 01, 2004 at 05:46:10PM -0000, pandasuperstar wrote:

> I've been using energy XT for a bit now and I was wondering if anyone 
> in here had successfully worked with it and the Machinedrum ?
> 
> I can't sync them up (tempo is a bit out of whack), my only 
> alternative is to use Cubase and eXT as a VST for now.

what are you using as the master?  or is your sync bad regardless of which is the
master?

thanks.
-- 
yours,
niall.
.. .  .   .    .     .       .           .             .                 .
aleph null.                             a simple insinuation around silence.
http://syncretism.net
.. .. gpg public key - http://www.aleph-null.net/niall.gpg .. ..

Hi Pandersuperstar,

I have got the same problem with my MD syncing to Cubase.  In the 
manual it states that the MD should be set as the master for MIDI 
clock.  However Elektron have said the opposite to me in one of many 
emails I have received from them in an effort to resolve the shocking 
MIDI timing of the MD.

They say that when syncing with a software sequencer that the master 
should be Cubase (in my example).  Thing is I find that the tempo is 
out and that when recording the audio into Cubase that the Kicks (for 
example) fall up to 600 samples before or after the beat - totally 
unworkable!

Elektron are, I think, looking into what can be done to resolve this -
 problem is it looks as if they do not Cubase SX2.0 to test against 
back in their office.

I am absolutely gutted as this is a serious piece of kit, at a 
serious price and currently I cannot use it for the purpose it was 
bought for - so I can be away from home and develop my beats and then 
sequence them into my tracks when I get home.  The timing is so bad!

This is probably not the news you were hoping for.  If you manage to 
make any discoveries regarding this timing issue then please keep me 
informed and I will keep you up to date with how my support call is 
going with Elektron.

Although it has been 2 days and no further response from them so it 
could be a long slog!

Cheers,

Martyn




--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, niall munnelly <aleph@a...> 
wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 01, 2004 at 05:46:10PM -0000, pandasuperstar wrote:
> 
> > I've been using energy XT for a bit now and I was wondering if 
anyone 
> > in here had successfully worked with it and the Machinedrum ?
> > 
> > I can't sync them up (tempo is a bit out of whack), my only 
> > alternative is to use Cubase and eXT as a VST for now.
> 
> what are you using as the master?  or is your sync bad regardless 
of which is the
> master?
> 
> thanks.
> -- 
> yours,
> niall.
> .. .  .   .    .     .       .           .             .            
     .
> aleph null.                             a simple insinuation around 
silence.
> http://syncretism.net
> .. .. gpg public key - http://www.aleph-null.net/niall.gpg .. ..

On Sep 1, 2004, at 2:35 PM, drammy2004 wrote:

>  They say that when syncing with a software sequencer that the master
>  should be Cubase (in my example).  Thing is I find that the tempo is
>  out and that when recording the audio into Cubase that the Kicks (for
>  example) fall up to 600 samples before or after the beat - totally
>  unworkable!

how are you recording it?  what sort of interface are you using?
because if you're using something like a single USB interface to
send the MIDI clock and receive the incoming audio, then you might
be having issues there.  the interface may be giving priority to
high-bandwidth jobs (audio) and low priority to low-bandwidth
jobs (MIDI signals).  does the timing drift when you're not recording?
i.e. when you're just syncing the MD to Cubase and running the
two at once?

(BTW, I can't believe that a sequencer as expensive as Cubase can't
be slaved to any other clock.)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> how are you recording it?

through the Line ins on my RME HDSP 9632

> what sort of interface are you using?

An RME Hammerfall PCI card

> because if you're using something like a single USB interface to
> send the MIDI clock and receive the incoming audio, then you might
> be having issues there.  the interface may be giving priority to
> high-bandwidth jobs (audio) and low priority to low-bandwidth
> jobs (MIDI signals).  

It isn't USB.  I understand what you are saying but none of my other 
MIDI devices have bad sync with Cubase's MIDI clock.

> does the timing drift when you're not recording? i.e. when you're
> just syncing the MD to Cubase and running the
> two at once?

Yes

> (BTW, I can't believe that a sequencer as expensive as Cubase can't
> be slaved to any other clock.)

I know, bad isn't it - it is however true.  Besides this Elektron 
told me it would be best to have the MD sync to Cubase not the other 
way round.

Has no-one else experienced this apart from Pandersuperstar and 
myself?

Sorry I should have pointed out:  Cubase will not sync to an external 
MIDI clock - it will of course sync to MTC and what not but MTC does 
not contain any clock details needed for tempo syncing.

Should have explained that in the last post.

Martyn

On Sep 1, 2004, at 4:25 PM, drammy2004 wrote:

>  It isn't USB.  I understand what you are saying but none of my other
>  MIDI devices have bad sync with Cubase's MIDI clock.

ok.  the MD's pretty sensitive to clock signals, so I was just thinking 
that if
the clock coming from your computer was drifting, it might affect the 
MD.

>  Yes

ok.  nevermind; I was just trying to take a wild stab at it :-)

>   Has no-one else experienced this apart from Pandersuperstar and
>  myself?

no, others have reported it before.

I don't use Cubase.  however, I've synced the MD to Ableton Live with
absolutely no problems.  and this was with the audio going through a
not-so-great USB interface (emagic a6|2m) and the MIDI coming from
a device connected to the hub USB ports on that interface (which
you're really not supposed to do).  I've also synced Ableton to the
MD with no problems.  so maybe exporting clock signal is not such
a high priority for Cubase; and the MD, being sensitive to clock, is
affected by this?

you might want to try a MIDI monitor utility to see when the clock is
leaving your machine.  if the utility had a ms measure of when each
clock event happened, that would be ideal.  if it's leaving your
machine late, then the MD's not at fault.

also, have you tried *only* sending "start" to the MD and then just 
letting
both of them run their own clocks?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

No worrys,

thanks for the input.  So you have actually gone into the recorded 
audio and checked the timing visually?  Just checking - I am sure you 
will be able to hear it.  Anyway what you are saying is reassuring as 
it sounds like it is my setup rather than the MD.  This is what I was 
hoping for.

I haven't tried unsyncing them and sending machine control messages 
to start playback - I will give it a try, should be interesting to 
see the differences.

The problem is if I set up my Virus to receive MIDI clock from Cubase 
and then set an arpegiator to sync to it and record the audio, the 
timing is spot on.

BUT, when I tried using MIDIOX to check the tempo and MIDI clock the 
timing appeared out on that.

If it is my setup what kind of things could it be?

I use Cubase SL2.0 on a P4 2.8GHz PC with 1.5 Gig RAM.
1 * UAD-1
1 * Powercore PCI
RME HDSP 9632 Soundcard

Up until now I haven't had any problems or at least I wasn't aware of 
any.  I have removed the emulated ports in SL2.0.

I am desparate to get this working

Drammy

On Sep 1, 2004, at 5:06 PM, drammy2004 wrote:

> thanks for the input.  So you have actually gone into the recorded
>  audio and checked the timing visually?

yes. once the latency is compensated for and one beat is aligned, 
they're
all aligned.

>    The problem is if I set up my Virus to receive MIDI clock from 
> Cubase
>  and then set an arpegiator to sync to it and record the audio, the
>  timing is spot on.

that means that the MD clock sampling is likely higher resolution than 
the virus;
which I believe is the case.

>  BUT, when I tried using MIDIOX to check the tempo and MIDI clock the
>  timing appeared out on that.

does it give you a ms measurement of each clock signal? if they're not
evenly spaced then yes you have a problem.

>  If it is my setup what kind of things could it be?
>
>  I use Cubase SL2.0 on a P4 2.8GHz PC with 1.5 Gig RAM.
>  1 * UAD-1
>  1 * Powercore PCI
>  RME HDSP 9632 Soundcard

try not running the UAD and Powercore and start a Cubase session
with just a MIDI clock being sent to the MD.  then check the timing
in MIDIOX.  this way, your machine can dedicate everything to
just sending MIDI clock.  if it can't do that, then it seems Cubase
is at fault (not your interface as I believe MIDIOX monitors MIDI
before it gets to the interface).  then look and see if there's any
parameter related to MIDI clock exporting that you haven't
checked.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ok guys,

Thanks for yor conversation :)

This is not a new problem with Cubase and the MD indeed, It's not the 
first time the question pops-up.

But it happens too with eXT which annoys me because I wanted to stay 
clear from Cubase because my workflow is more natural when using 
eXT(which is always improved by the incredible developer that is 
Jurgen.).

I tried eXT to send notes to my Virus and the timing seems ok, to the 
ear which is not the case with the MD (like said before a few 
milliseconds late.).

I will try to see in midiox as well (edit : Can't recognize my 
terratec midi port :| )


The only workaround I know of, when working in cubase is too record in 
audio the beats from the MD then use Hitpoints, create audio slices 
then quantize (It was already explained a while ago in this forum.)

Not really the most simple way to work with Cubase and the MD.

I am a bit stuck there...I don't wanna use Attack :P

> > how are you recording it?
> 
> through the Line ins on my RME HDSP 9632
> 
> > what sort of interface are you using?
> 
> An RME Hammerfall PCI card
> 

Are you using this card for MIDI too? I'm working with RME hammerfall 
and I get pretty tight (enough actually) sync. There are two 
different methods I've tried when recording to Cubase (actually to 
Nuendo, but they are same to me):

1. MD in internal sync and getting the midi start-stop-continue 
commands from nuendo. Works ok for lenghts under minute. After one 
minute things start to lose sync (I'm always recording different pads 
to different tracks). I guess I should write this to Elektron..

2. MD in external sync and getting the midi start-stop-continue 
commands from nuendo. Works ok and I can record over an hour if I 
want, no syncing problems. But then I have to loose the swing (as it 
it quantized to 50, 60, 70, 80%). 

So, what I'm saying that I get thigs to work pretty ok and I haven't 
lose a sleep over this. Your problem might not be in MD? I really 
don't know..? If everything fails (I mean everything!) I always 
suggest people to try to clean to whole computer (format everything) 
and do a clean install from start to up and try to then again. Yeah I 
know, it can be a waste of time and really frustrating..



> It isn't USB.  I understand what you are saying but none of my 
>other 
> MIDI devices have bad sync with Cubase's MIDI clock.

Joys of technology I guess...
 
> > (BTW, I can't believe that a sequencer as expensive as Cubase 
can't
> > be slaved to any other clock.)

It can be slaved to midi-time or whatever it's called (SMPTE) but not 
just a midi-clock. :(

So no help, but understanding...
Toni.

Ah well , this offers a glimmer of hope Toni.  At least I know that 
others are having no problems.

I like the second option.  Swing is not an issue as I don't use it on 
the beats I am producing.

Looks like I might owe Elektron an apology as it sounds like it could 
well be my setup.

I'd be gutted if I have to rebuild as I did that about 2 weeks ago!

Toni - could you tell me your sync set-up, both on Cubase and the 
MD?  Sorry I know it takes a bit of time but it would be really 
appreciated as it sounds like you have got working exactly what I 
wanna do.

Cheers,

Drammy

--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "tahvenaine2002" 
<toni.ahvenainen@p...> wrote:
> > > how are you recording it?
> > 
> > through the Line ins on my RME HDSP 9632
> > 
> > > what sort of interface are you using?
> > 
> > An RME Hammerfall PCI card
> > 
> 
> Are you using this card for MIDI too? I'm working with RME 
hammerfall 
> and I get pretty tight (enough actually) sync. There are two 
> different methods I've tried when recording to Cubase (actually to 
> Nuendo, but they are same to me):
> 
> 1. MD in internal sync and getting the midi start-stop-continue 
> commands from nuendo. Works ok for lenghts under minute. After one 
> minute things start to lose sync (I'm always recording different 
pads 
> to different tracks). I guess I should write this to Elektron..
> 
> 2. MD in external sync and getting the midi start-stop-continue 
> commands from nuendo. Works ok and I can record over an hour if I 
> want, no syncing problems. But then I have to loose the swing (as 
it 
> it quantized to 50, 60, 70, 80%). 
> 
> So, what I'm saying that I get thigs to work pretty ok and I 
haven't 
> lose a sleep over this. Your problem might not be in MD? I really 
> don't know..? If everything fails (I mean everything!) I always 
> suggest people to try to clean to whole computer (format 
everything) 
> and do a clean install from start to up and try to then again. Yeah 
I 
> know, it can be a waste of time and really frustrating..
> 
> 
> 
> > It isn't USB.  I understand what you are saying but none of my 
> >other 
> > MIDI devices have bad sync with Cubase's MIDI clock.
> 
> Joys of technology I guess...
>  
> > > (BTW, I can't believe that a sequencer as expensive as Cubase 
> can't
> > > be slaved to any other clock.)
> 
> It can be slaved to midi-time or whatever it's called (SMPTE) but 
not 

> just a midi-clock. :(
> 
> So no help, but understanding...
> Toni.

> Toni - could you tell me your sync set-up, both on Cubase and the 
> MD?  Sorry I know it takes a bit of time but it would be really 
> appreciated as it sounds like you have got working exactly what I 
> wanna do.

No problem. I'll look it tonight at home (I'm at work now ;) and post 
my setup in detail tomorrow. 

Toni.

ps. I know how hard it is trying to inspect what makes computer do 
wrong things. Some time ago I found what makes pops and clicks to my 
recordings: it's the neighbours who are switching light (/other 
electrical stuff) on and off!!! I'm not kidding people..

> ps. I know how hard it is trying to inspect what makes computer do 
> wrong things. Some time ago I found what makes pops and clicks to 
my 
> recordings: it's the neighbours who are switching light (/other 
> electrical stuff) on and off!!! I'm not kidding people..


That is crazy - how on earth did you work that out?

Ah shit!! I forgot to check my settings. I'm truly sorry, you must 
have been waiting them... I'll promise to post them tomorrow.

> >  it's the neighbours who are switching light (/other 
> > electrical stuff) on and off!!! I'm not kidding people..
> 
> That is crazy - how on earth did you work that out?

I found it with my lights first and then made a few test with 
neighbours. There is nothing I can do with them, except my recording 
at night when people are sleeping...

Toni.

ps. I'll promise to check the settings (I've made myself a note).

No worrys Toni,

I appreciate what you are going to do anyway so don't fret.

I will check back tomorrow,

thanks for doing this.

Martyn


--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "tahvenaine2002" 
<toni.ahvenainen@p...> wrote:
> Ah shit!! I forgot to check my settings. I'm truly sorry, you must 
> have been waiting them... I'll promise to post them tomorrow.
> 
> > >  it's the neighbours who are switching light (/other 
> > > electrical stuff) on and off!!! I'm not kidding people..
> > 
> > That is crazy - how on earth did you work that out?
> 
> I found it with my lights first and then made a few test with 
> neighbours. There is nothing I can do with them, except my 
recording 

> at night when people are sleeping...
> 
> Toni.
> 
> ps. I'll promise to check the settings (I've made myself a note).