Rhodes Chroma Polaris

> ... Starting Diagnostics:

> ... 3) Tried playing with Pulse on the Oscs but it just gave "effect" -
> was it suppose to turn off the Osc?

> 4) LF D 2 - Revision 5. Poop.

> 9) LF 11: LED did not go on and I heard a click. Had to power off / on.

> ... 11) Noticed Bank B had organ sounds which it should not.

> If not mistaken, it should have scratch patch because I previously did a RESET.

> 12) Tried to go through all of "A" Bank using the numbers...
> A8 - Moved to G 8
> A9 - Moved to H 9
> A10 - Moved to I 10

> A11 - No LED, Click and stayed on A1 - no sound. Turn off / on.

> ... I think I need to focus on adjustments or some new part(s) in the Synth.

> 14) LF B 1 - 6 seemed to work without issue.
> 7 gave a honk and went to flashing "F".
> 8 gave a honk and went to G 8.
> 9 gave a honk and went to H 9.
> 10 gave a honk and went to I 10.
> 11 gave a click and went poof - locked up. Turn off / on.
> 12 gave a click and lit up B 1 - 3. Locked up. Turn off / on.

> Tracey - to clarify - the 'diganostics' section of
> the Service Manual is not necessarily intended to be a
> 'follow these steps in order to check the health of your
> keyboard' but instead it contains a set of individual
> notes about how different functionalities can be controlled.
> The idea is that these can be used as a sort of 'tool
> box' by someone to try to investigate/diagnose an
> issue.

> The Oscillator Enable/Disable section is saying that if you
> want to make it so an oscillator doesn't sound - then if
> you have it set up as a 'pulse' waveform, and set
> the width to max (or min) - then that will 'turn
> off' output from that oscillator.

> 4) LF D 2 - Revision 5. Poop.

> Revision 5 is functional - but if you have concerns about
> that you can always arrange for newer firmware to be
> active:

> http://www.rhodeschroma.com/?id=polariseproms

> 10) LF 12: LED did not go on and I heard a click. Had to
> power off / on.

> What of you mean by "Had to power off/on"? Was
> the Polaris stuck? Did it no longer respond to user
> input?

> ... 11) Noticed Bank B had organ sounds which it should
>not.

> There are no hardcoded default programs in the Polaris. The
> programs are 100% defined by what was/wasn't loaded by
> the user/saved by the user.

> One of the diagnostic results not reported on was LF D 1
> (Battery state). What did you see here? Whether or not the
> batteries are new or old, it is important to know what the
> Polaris 'thinks' it sees for the battery voltage
> (e.g., if something is preventing the battery voltage from
> going where it should - then every time you power off and
> back on you could end up with random values and
> settings).

> If not mistaken, it should have scratch patch because
> I previously did a RESET.

> It all depends on specifically what was done. If the
> 'reset' referred to here is like the LF 12 'Cold
> Reset', then that wouldn't necessarily blank all the
> programs.

> If you did 'LF + D + 12 + STOP', then that will
> erase everything (and all the programs and adjustments will
> be blank).

> 12) Tried to go through all of "A" Bank using
> the numbers...

> A8 - Moved to G 8
> A9 - Moved to H 9
> A10 - Moved to I 10

> What specifically are do you doing/seeing here?

> - you press "A" and it flashes (and nothing no
> other program bank letters are illuminated)

> - you press "8" and instead of the panel keeping
> "A" lit up and "8", the panel now shows
> "G" (on solid) and "8" (on solid)?

> A11 - No LED, Click and stayed on A1 - no sound. Turn
> off / on.

> What specific steps are being done here? E.g., it was noted
> that you 'stayed on A1'.

> So - for this test that you were going through all of the
> "A" bank, how is it that when we did the A11 test
> it was already on "A1"?

> - press 1 - see the flashing A LED now turn solid and see
> the "1" button turn solid (with all other bank and
> program LEDs being out).

>- press 2 - see the program LED change from solid
> "1" to solid "2"

> - press 3 - see the program LED change from solid
> "2" to solid "3"

> - press 11 - see the program LED change from solid
>"10" to solid "11"

> ... I think I need to focus on adjustments or some new
> part(s) in the Synth.

> Perhaps - but the only way to know 'what' is to
> figure out what's wrong and identify the functionality
> involved.

> Some basic/key important observations:

> - are you finding that the behaviour changes 'over
> time'? E.g., if you leave the Polaris on (not power
> cycling it) are you finding that (for instance) program A1,
> A2 and A3 are 'OK' when you first power on - but
> then after some hours somehow A1, A2 and A3 are
> different/broken/different?

> - are you finding that memory contents change across a power
> cycle? E.g., that during power up 1 you have 12 LEDs light
> up in Bank A, 12 in Bank B, etc. - but during power up 2 -
> or after it has been off overnight you find now that there
> are more/less patches defined/contents of patches
> changed?

> 14) LF B 1 - 6 seemed to work without issue.
> 7 gave a honk and went to flashing

> 8 gave a honk and went to G 8.
> 9 gave a honk and went to H 9.
> 10 gave a honk and went to I 10.
> 11 gave a click and went poof - locked up. Turn

> 12 gave a click and lit up B 1 - 3. Locked up.

> There's something not good occurring here, seemingly
> related to what the Polaris believes has been selected for
> buttons 7-12.

> If you don't use program buttons 7-12, and restrict
> yourself temporarily to buttons 1-6 - are functional
> problems seen?

> E.g., if there not already some patches, create some by
>editing the scratch patch and storing a changed version to
>A1, A2, A3, A4, A5, A6, B1, B2, B3, etc. If you now only
>use those (along with any slider editing you wish to do) are
>hings nominally OK, or do certain things failing?

On Fri, 6/1/18, Tracy Barber adirondack_pc@... [chromapolaris] <chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [chromapolaris] OK - I Have Diagnostics Now And They Are Weird
To: chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, June 1, 2018, 12:58 AM

Bob -

I actually have them here. 
Section 9 of the service manual has the pairs.  That's
where I got the info, from the site.  You have a good
idea, however...  I was looking at these but didn't
come up with any way to do anything with them.  Your
example would be "J" and "K", vibrato and pitch pedal, glide
and rate pedal if you put all the cross overs together.

So, you're saying check out the ribbon
cables again for anything out of the ordinary?  That I
can do.  Clean them with alcohol, yes?

I sprayed the connectors with canned
air and used a little Deoxy D5 on them to clean them up
already.  Made sure they were in and lined up
properly.

Unfortunately, I can't check the side
that is connected to the face plates because they're buried
under the material.  Also, they're brand new. 
Sheesh...  I also did the "S" curve as told to by the
video.  I sure wished they would've spent a few more $
on real connectors.  You also can't get a swab in there
to clean the contacts better.  I wonder if an alcohol
pad would work?

Tracy

****


If you go to this site, and scroll
down to the bottom, you
can see the connections to the front
panel membrane
switches.

These are not shown in the service
manual schematics.



http://www.rhodeschroma.com/?id=polarisserviceschematics



If you look at switches A and G you
will see that one end of
each is common, and only the other end
is different.

One connects to J9A-3 SWSTB4 and the
other connects to J9A-4
SWSTB5.  If something is
shorting those two

signals together, such as a solder
splash, or possibly a bit
of the old membrane flex still in the
connector, then when


you press G, you could get an A. 
A lot of other pairs of
switches would also be joined by such
a short.  I suggest


you troubleshoot the front panel issue
and get it resolved
before trying to troubleshoot anything
else.  A DMM
measuring

resistance should help to see if there
is some kind of short
between those two signals.



Bob

 



   
     

   
   



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------------------------------------
Posted by: Tracy Barber <adirondack_pc@...>
------------------------------------


------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links



    (Yahoo! ID required)


    chromapolaris-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

On Fri, 6/1/18, Bob Grieb bobgrieb@... [chromapolaris] <chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [chromapolaris] OK - I Have Diagnostics Now And They Are Weird
To: chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, June 1, 2018, 8:50 AM


 









What I would suggest is that you use a multimeter
to see if there is an electrical connection

between the two signals that I mentioned. You can measure
between other SWSTB pairs

to see what the resistance should be (high). I would say
do not unplug the flexes from the

membranes, or do any cleaning or spraying until you have
determined if there is a problem.

If you find a connection between those two signals that
shouldn't be there, then try to figure

out where the short is. But do your measurements first,
especially since the flexes are

somewhat fragile and you don't want to mess with them
any more than absolutely necessary.



Ideally, you use a meter and an oscilloscope to make
measurements that indicate

where problems lie, then you change chips, fix traces, etc
to fix the problem.



Bob



--------------------------------------------

On Fri, 6/1/18, Tracy Barber adirondack_pc@...
[chromapolaris] <chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com>
wrote:



Subject: Re: [chromapolaris] OK - I Have Diagnostics Now And
They Are Weird

To: chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com

Date: Friday, June 1, 2018, 12:58 AM



Bob -



I actually have them here. 

Section 9 of the service manual has the pairs. 
That's

where I got the info, from the site.  You have a good

idea, however...  I was looking at these but didn't

come up with any way to do anything with them.  Your

example would be "J" and "K", vibrato
and pitch pedal, glide

and rate pedal if you put all the cross overs together.



So, you're saying check out the ribbon

cables again for anything out of the ordinary?  That I

can do.  Clean them with alcohol, yes?



I sprayed the connectors with canned

air and used a little Deoxy D5 on them to clean them up

already.  Made sure they were in and lined up

properly.



Unfortunately, I can't check the side

that is connected to the face plates because they're
buried

under the material.  Also, they're brand new. 

Sheesh...  I also did the "S" curve as told to
by the

video.  I sure wished they would've spent a few more
$

on real connectors.  You also can't get a swab in
there

to clean the contacts better.  I wonder if an alcohol

pad would work?



Tracy



****





If you go to this site, and scroll

down to the bottom, you

can see the connections to the front

panel membrane

switches.



These are not shown in the service

manual schematics.








http://www.rhodeschroma.com/?id=polarisserviceschematics







If you look at switches A and G you

will see that one end of

each is common, and only the other end

is different.



One connects to J9A-3 SWSTB4 and the

other connects to J9A-4

SWSTB5.  If something is

shorting those two



signals together, such as a solder

splash, or possibly a bit

of the old membrane flex still in the

connector, then when





you press G, you could get an A. 

A lot of other pairs of

switches would also be joined by such

a short.  I suggest





you troubleshoot the front panel issue

and get it resolved

before trying to troubleshoot anything

else.  A DMM

measuring



resistance should help to see if there

is some kind of short

between those two signals.







Bob

On Fri, 6/1/18, Tracy Barber adirondack_pc@... [chromapolaris] <chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [chromapolaris] OK - I Have Diagnostics Now And They Are Weird
To: chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, June 1, 2018, 2:44 PM

So, stick the lack lead on one and the red
lead on the other?  What Ohms / Volts will I be looking
for?  Anything above 0?

The membranes are pretty tough now that
Paul redid them.  I have to watch it though because
they have been jiggled around a bit.

OK, I see - high resistance. 
check for high Ohms on the pairs.  Unless I was sold a
bad brand new set of face "plates", they should be
fine.  Each line in the ribbons are good, except one
has a small piece missing.  Still 3/4 there.

Try this with the power on?

Since last message, I have reseated the
connectors and have done so much with it I should be a whiz,
but no - just a Dummy for Electronics.  Except for
computers, which are close but not close enough.

Tracy

--------------------------------------------
On Fri, 6/1/18, Bob Grieb bobgrieb@...
[chromapolaris] <chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com>
wrote:

Subject: Re: [chromapolaris] OK - I
Have Diagnostics Now And They Are Weird
To: chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, June 1, 2018, 8:50 AM


 



 


   
     
     
      What I would
suggest is that you use a multimeter
to see if there is an electrical
connection

between the two signals that I
mentioned.  You can measure
between other SWSTB pairs

to see what the resistance should be
(high).  I would say
do not unplug the flexes from the

membranes, or do any cleaning or
spraying until you have
determined if there is a problem.

If you find a connection between those
two signals that
shouldn't be there, then try to
figure

out where the short is.  But do
your measurements first,
especially since the flexes are

somewhat fragile and you don't want to
mess with them
any more than absolutely necessary.



Ideally, you use a meter and an
oscilloscope to make
measurements that indicate

where problems lie, then you change
chips, fix traces, etc
to fix the problem.



Bob




--------------------------------------------

On Fri, 6/1/18, Tracy Barber adirondack_pc@...
[chromapolaris] <chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com>
wrote:



Subject: Re: [chromapolaris] OK - I
Have Diagnostics Now And
They Are Weird

  To: chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com

  Date: Friday, June 1, 2018,
12:58 AM

 

  Bob -

 

  I actually have them here. 

  Section 9 of the service manual
has the pairs. 
That's

  where I got the info, from the
site.  You have a good

  idea, however...  I was looking
at these but didn't

  come up with any way to do
anything with them.  Your

  example would be "J" and "K",
vibrato
and pitch pedal, glide

  and rate pedal if you put all
the cross overs together.

 

  So, you're saying check out the
ribbon

  cables again for anything out of
the ordinary?  That I

  can do.  Clean them with
alcohol, yes?

 

  I sprayed the connectors with
canned

  air and used a little Deoxy D5
on them to clean them up

  already.  Made sure they were
in and lined up

  properly.

 

  Unfortunately, I can't check the
side

  that is connected to the face
plates because they're
buried

  under the material.  Also,
they're brand new. 

  Sheesh...  I also did the "S"
curve as told to
by the

  video.   I sure wished
they would've spent a few more
$

  on real connectors.  You also
can't get a swab in
there

  to clean the contacts better. 
I wonder if an alcohol

  pad would work?

 

  Tracy

 

  ****

 

 

  If you go to this site, and
scroll

  down to the bottom, you

  can see the connections to the
front

  panel membrane

  switches.

 

  These are not shown in the
service

  manual schematics.

 

 

 

 
http://www.rhodeschroma.com/?id=polarisserviceschematics

 

 

 

  If you look at switches A and G
you

  will see that one end of

  each is common, and only the
other end

  is different.

 

  One connects to J9A-3 SWSTB4
and the

  other connects to J9A-4

  SWSTB5.   If something
is

  shorting those two

 

  signals together, such as a
solder

  splash, or possibly a bit

  of the old membrane flex still
in the

  connector, then when

 

 

  you press G, you could get an
A. 

  A lot of other pairs of

  switches would also be joined
by such

  a short.   I suggest

 

 

  you troubleshoot the front
panel issue

  and get it resolved

  before trying to troubleshoot
anything

  else.  A DMM

  measuring

 

  resistance should help to see
if there

  is some kind of short

  between those two signals.

 

 

 

  Bob



------------------------------------
Posted by: Tracy Barber <adirondack_pc@...>
------------------------------------


------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links



    (Yahoo! ID required)


    chromapolaris-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

On Sun, Jun 3, 2018, 10:46 AM 'albrecht storz' albstorz@... [chromapolaris] <chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Here a suggestion:

 

try to remote control your Polaris.

 

E.g. find an old Atari ST and run the programms which are delivered over the Polaris-Page.

See POLARIST.PRG 

 

at http://www.rhodeschroma.com/?id=polarisataribankloader

 

Any other control over Midi may do it the same.

 

Schöne Grüße

Albrecht

 

Gesendet: Donnerstag, 31. Mai 2018 um 10:38 Uhr
Von: "adirondack_pc@... [chromapolaris]" <chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com>
An: chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com
Betreff: [chromapolaris] OK - I Have Diagnostics Now And They Are Weird

 

 

This is a LONG message with test results:

 

These were all done sequentially, 1 after the other in the Diagnostics section.  These are exactly the same issues I was having before reseating / checking the Synth so no new problems crept in.

 

Removed top left, top right boards.

Removed power supply.

Reseated all connectors.

Tightened all screws.

Tightened all jumpers.

Removed keyboard.

Reseated ribbon cables and made sure they were aligned.  No tears, etc.  New face plates.

Checked for bad cables / connections.

Did not check board trace for anomalies.

Batteries are brand new.

Did not remove transformer and anything in that corner.

 

      Green cable from headphones is attached to power supply but nothing else.  Paul D. mentioned using the brown wire from back board harness instead.  What do I do with this cable?  Ground it somewhere?

 

Changed startup patch, it was going to I 10 and that was always weird.

 

Starting Diagnostics:

 

1) Scratch patch worked.

2) Channel enable worked on all 6 channels.

3) Tried playing with Pulse on the Oscs but it just gave "effect" - was it suppose to turn off the Osc?

4) LF D 2 - Revision 5.  Poop.

5) LF D 3 - All LEDs light up.

6) LF D 4 - LED went on at max Master volume.

7) LF D 12, STOP: Did NOT try.  Already in RESET mode from before.

8) LF 10: LED lit up and it honked.  No MIDI set up at the moment.

9) LF 11: LED did not go on and I heard a click.  Had to power off / on.

10) LF 12:  LED did not go on and I heard a click.  Had to power off / on.

 

At this point, heat sink is getting warmer...

 

11) Noticed Bank B had organ sounds which it should not.  If not mistaken, it should have scratch patch because I previously did a RESET.

12) Tried to go through all of "A" Bank using the numbers.  Started each at A1 and proceeded through all.  Results:

 

      A1 - OK

      A2 - OK

      A3 - Piano?

      A4 - OK

      A5 - OK

      A6  - OK

      A7 - Honk, then went there to A7.

      A8 - Moved to G 8

      A9 - Moved to H 9

      A10 - Moved to I 10

      A11 - No LED, Click and stayed on A1 - no sound.  Turn off / on.

      A12 - No LED, Click and stayed on A1 - no sound.  Turn off / on.

 

At this point, frustration starts to set in.   I think I need to focus on adjustments or some new part(s) in the Synth. 

This is where I ask you the questions about where to go next.  I have done the preliminary work and am not afraid to go further, but don't know if I'm wasting time here.

 

13) LF A 1 - 5 seemed to work.  2 gave me a click.  5 gave me a honk.

14) LF B 1 - 6 seemed to work without issue.  

      7 gave a honk and went to flashing "F".

      8 gave a honk and went to G 8.

      9 gave a honk and went to H 9.

      10 gave a honk and went to I 10.

      11 gave a click and went poof - locked up.  Turn off / on.

      12 gave a click and lit up B 1 - 3.  Locked up.  Turn off / on.

 

Sheesh...  Warmer!

 

Press "A" 2 - 12 light up.

Press "B" 2 - 6 light up.

Press "C" and "A" stays on.

Press "D" and "A" stays on.

Press "E" and "A" stays on.

Press "F" and "A" stays on.

Press "G" and "A" stays on.

Press "H" and "A" stays on.

Press "I" and "A" stays on.

Press "J" and "A" stays on.

Press "K" and "A" plus 2, 8 - 12 stay on.

 

I think this sucker is bipolar.  No pun intended.  What's funny is that the presets play fine!  However many different ones I can scrape out of it, other than scratch patch.  LOL!

 

Any ideas?

 

Tracy

 

 

 

 

> Hi, First time responding in forum. 

On Fri, 6/1/18, Bob Grieb bobgrieb@... [chromapolaris] <chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [chromapolaris] OK - I Have Diagnostics Now And They Are Weird
To: chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, June 1, 2018, 4:53 PM


 









Resistance is measured in ohms.



You never measure resistance in a circuit with the power
on.

The meter uses its own current to measure the resistance.

Any current in the same circuit from the power being on will


cause an incorrect reading.



I don't think there is anything wrong with the new
panels.

More likely something else could be causing a short between
those

two signals. But we haven't even determined that a
short exists,

it's just a theory at this point.



As I said before, measure the resistance between other pairs
of SWSTB signals

to see what the resistance measures (should be high) then
compare that with

the two signals I mentioned.



Maybe you should download the manual for the meter that you
are using and

review how to use it for simple measurements?



--------------------------------------------

On Fri, 6/1/18, Tracy Barber adirondack_pc@...
[chromapolaris] <chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com>
wrote:



Subject: Re: [chromapolaris] OK - I Have Diagnostics Now And
They Are Weird

To: chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com

Date: Friday, June 1, 2018, 2:44 PM



So, stick the lack lead on one and the red

lead on the other?  What Ohms / Volts will I be looking

for?  Anything above 0?



The membranes are pretty tough now that

Paul redid them.  I have to watch it though because

they have been jiggled around a bit.



OK, I see - high resistance. 

check for high Ohms on the pairs.  Unless I was sold a

bad brand new set of face "plates", they should
be

fine.  Each line in the ribbons are good, except one

has a small piece missing.  Still 3/4 there.



Try this with the power on?



Since last message, I have reseated the

connectors and have done so much with it I should be a
whiz,

but no - just a Dummy for Electronics.  Except for

computers, which are close but not close enough.



Tracy



--------------------------------------------

On Fri, 6/1/18, Bob Grieb bobgrieb@...

[chromapolaris] <chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com>

wrote:



Subject: Re: [chromapolaris] OK - I

Have Diagnostics Now And They Are Weird

To: chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com

Date: Friday, June 1, 2018, 8:50 AM





 







 





   

     

     

      What I would

suggest is that you use a multimeter

to see if there is an electrical

connection



between the two signals that I

mentioned.  You can measure

between other SWSTB pairs



to see what the resistance should be

(high).  I would say

do not unplug the flexes from the



membranes, or do any cleaning or

spraying until you have

determined if there is a problem.



If you find a connection between those

two signals that

shouldn't be there, then try to

figure



out where the short is.  But do

your measurements first,

especially since the flexes are



somewhat fragile and you don't want to

mess with them

any more than absolutely necessary.







Ideally, you use a meter and an

oscilloscope to make

measurements that indicate



where problems lie, then you change

chips, fix traces, etc

to fix the problem.







Bob









--------------------------------------------



On Fri, 6/1/18, Tracy Barber adirondack_pc@...

[chromapolaris] <chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com>

wrote:







Subject: Re: [chromapolaris] OK - I

Have Diagnostics Now And

They Are Weird



  To: chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com



  Date: Friday, June 1, 2018,

12:58 AM



 



  Bob -



 



  I actually have them here. 



  Section 9 of the service manual

has the pairs. 

That's



  where I got the info, from the

site.  You have a good



  idea, however...  I was looking

at these but didn't



  come up with any way to do

anything with them.  Your



  example would be "J" and "K",

vibrato

and pitch pedal, glide



  and rate pedal if you put all

the cross overs together.



 



  So, you're saying check out the

ribbon



  cables again for anything out of

the ordinary?  That I



  can do.  Clean them with

alcohol, yes?



 



  I sprayed the connectors with

canned



  air and used a little Deoxy D5

on them to clean them up



  already.  Made sure they were

in and lined up



  properly.



 



  Unfortunately, I can't check the

side



  that is connected to the face

plates because they're

buried



  under the material.  Also,

they're brand new. 



  Sheesh...  I also did the "S"

curve as told to

by the



  video.   I sure wished

they would've spent a few more

$



  on real connectors.  You also

can't get a swab in

there



  to clean the contacts better. 

I wonder if an alcohol



  pad would work?



 



  Tracy



 



  ****



 



 



  If you go to this site, and

scroll



  down to the bottom, you



  can see the connections to the

front



  panel membrane



  switches.



 



  These are not shown in the

service



  manual schematics.



 



 



 



 


http://www.rhodeschroma.com/?id=polarisserviceschematics



 



 



 



  If you look at switches A and G

you



  will see that one end of



  each is common, and only the

other end



  is different.



 



  One connects to J9A-3 SWSTB4

and the



  other connects to J9A-4



  SWSTB5.   If something

is



  shorting those two



 



  signals together, such as a

solder



  splash, or possibly a bit



  of the old membrane flex still

in the



  connector, then when



 



 



  you press G, you could get an

A. 



  A lot of other pairs of



  switches would also be joined

by such



  a short.   I suggest



 



 



  you troubleshoot the front

panel issue



  and get it resolved



  before trying to troubleshoot

anything



  else.  A DMM



  measuring



 



  resistance should help to see

if there



  is some kind of short



  between those two signals.



 



 



 



  Bob







------------------------------------

Posted by: Tracy Barber <adirondack_pc@...>

------------------------------------





------------------------------------



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On Sat, 6/9/18, Tracy Barber adirondack_pc@... [chromapolaris] <chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [chromapolaris] OK - I Have Diagnostics Now And They Are Weird
To: chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, June 9, 2018, 1:42 AM

I checked all of the matrix with the
Fluke.  Positive results!  After a fashion...

The right top board measured in the
3.7x M Ohms range - all of them.  The left top board
had some crap in the connector or something.  I used
canned air first and then some Deoxy D5.  Used the
leads in a consistent fashion and they ranged from 306 - 363
M Ohms.  So, this is a good thing.

I had to trim the ribbon cables a
smidgeon and checked if they were even across.  After
the Deoxy, they went in a little more than before. 
This was the replacement board for the one in it when I
bought it.  I think there may have been some Q.A.
issues sending that board out but I won't get into it here.

Further, broke a key but trusty old
gorilla glue to the rescue! 

Reseated EVERY DAMN chip and jumper in
that beast and lost 1 chip.  A non-CEM, good
thing...  $2.95 for a replacement.

So, the ribbon cables check out so far,
the key is fixed and playable and I've reseated the entire
mutha...  I'll get that chip ASAP because it may not
work otherwise, unless it simply cuts off one of my 6
channels.  Z207 clan...

Now what, boss?  Anything I can do
with the chip missing or should I wait?

Tracy




--------------------------------------------
On Fri, 6/1/18, Bob Grieb bobgrieb@...
[chromapolaris] <chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com>
wrote:

Subject: Re: [chromapolaris] OK - I
Have Diagnostics Now And They Are Weird
To: chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, June 1, 2018, 4:53 PM


 



 


   
     
     
      Resistance is
measured in ohms.



You never measure resistance in a
circuit with the power
on.

The meter uses its own current to
measure the resistance.

Any current in the same circuit from
the power being on will


cause an incorrect reading.



I don't think there is anything wrong
with the new
panels.

More likely something else could be
causing a short between
those

two signals.  But we haven't
even determined that a
short exists,

it's just a theory at this point.



As I said before, measure the
resistance between other pairs
of SWSTB signals

to see what the resistance measures
(should be high)  then
compare that with

the two signals I mentioned.



Maybe you should download the manual
for the meter that you
are using and

review how to use it for simple
measurements?




--------------------------------------------

On Fri, 6/1/18, Tracy Barber adirondack_pc@...
[chromapolaris] <chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com>
wrote:



Subject: Re: [chromapolaris] OK - I
Have Diagnostics Now And
They Are Weird

  To: chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com

  Date: Friday, June 1, 2018, 2:44
PM

 

  So, stick the lack lead on one
and the red

  lead on the other?  What Ohms /
Volts will I be looking

  for?  Anything above 0?

 

  The membranes are pretty tough
now that

  Paul redid them.  I have to
watch it though because

  they have been jiggled around a
bit.

 

  OK, I see - high resistance. 

  check for high Ohms on the
pairs.  Unless I was sold a

  bad brand new set of face
"plates", they should
be

  fine.  Each line in the ribbons
are good, except one

  has a small piece missing. 
Still 3/4 there.

 

  Try this with the power on?

 

  Since last message, I have
reseated the

  connectors and have done so much
with it I should be a
whiz,

  but no - just a Dummy for
Electronics.  Except for

  computers, which are close but
not close enough.

 

  Tracy

 

 
--------------------------------------------

  On Fri, 6/1/18, Bob Grieb bobgrieb@...

  [chromapolaris] <chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com>

  wrote:

 

  Subject: Re: [chromapolaris] OK
- I

  Have Diagnostics Now And They
Are Weird

  To: chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com

  Date: Friday, June 1, 2018,
8:50 AM

 

 

   

 

 

 

    

 

 

      

        

        

         What I would

  suggest is that you use a
multimeter

  to see if there is an
electrical

  connection

 

  between the two signals that I

  mentioned.   You can
measure

  between other SWSTB pairs

 

  to see what the resistance
should be

  (high).   I would say

  do not unplug the flexes from
the

 

  membranes, or do any cleaning
or

  spraying until you have

  determined if there is a
problem.

 

  If you find a connection
between those

  two signals that

  shouldn't be there, then try
to

  figure

 

  out where the short is.  
But do

  your measurements first,

  especially since the flexes are


 

  somewhat fragile and you don't
want to

  mess with them

  any more than absolutely
necessary.

 

 

 

  Ideally, you use a meter and
an

  oscilloscope to make

  measurements that indicate

 

  where problems lie, then you
change

  chips, fix traces, etc

  to fix the problem.

 

 

 

  Bob

 

 

 

 

 
--------------------------------------------

 

  On Fri, 6/1/18, Tracy Barber adirondack_pc@...

  [chromapolaris] <chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com>

  wrote:

 

 

 

  Subject: Re: [chromapolaris] OK
- I

  Have Diagnostics Now And

  They Are Weird

 

    To: chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com

 

    Date: Friday, June 1, 2018,

  12:58 AM

 

   

 

    Bob -

 

   

 

    I actually have them here. 

 

    Section 9 of the service
manual

  has the pairs. 

  That's

 

    where I got the info, from
the

  site.  You have a good

 

    idea, however...  I was
looking

  at these but didn't

 

    come up with any way to do

  anything with them.  Your

 

    example would be "J" and
"K",

  vibrato

  and pitch pedal, glide

 

    and rate pedal if you put
all

  the cross overs together.

 

   

 

    So, you're saying check out
the

  ribbon

 

    cables again for anything out
of

  the ordinary?  That I

 

    can do.  Clean them with

  alcohol, yes?

 

   

 

    I sprayed the connectors
with

  canned

 

    air and used a little Deoxy
D5

  on them to clean them up

 

    already.  Made sure they
were

  in and lined up

 

    properly.

 

   

 

    Unfortunately, I can't check
the

  side

 

    that is connected to the
face

  plates because they're

  buried

 

    under the material.  Also,

  they're brand new. 

 

    Sheesh...  I also did the
"S"

  curve as told to

  by the

 

    video.   I sure wished

  they would've spent a few more

  $

 

    on real connectors.  You
also

  can't get a swab in

  there

 

    to clean the contacts
better. 

  I wonder if an alcohol

 

    pad would work?

 

   

 

    Tracy

 

   

 

    ****

 

    

 

    

 

     If you go to this site,
and

  scroll

 

    down to the bottom, you

 

     can see the connections
to the

  front

 

    panel membrane

 

     switches.

 

    

 

     These are not shown in
the

  service

 

    manual schematics.

 

    

 

    

 

    

 

   

 
http://www.rhodeschroma.com/?id=polarisserviceschematics

 

    

 

    

 

    

 

     If you look at switches
A and G

  you

 

    will see that one end of

 

     each is common, and
only the

  other end

 

    is different.

 

    

 

     One connects to J9A-3
SWSTB4

  and the

 

    other connects to J9A-4

 

     SWSTB5.   If
something

  is

 

    shorting those two

 

    

 

     signals together, such
as a

  solder

 

    splash, or possibly a bit

 

     of the old membrane
flex still

  in the

 

    connector, then when

 

    

 

    

 

     you press G, you could
get an

  A. 

 

     A lot of other pairs
of

 

     switches would also be
joined

  by such

 

    a short.   I suggest

 

    

 

    

 

     you troubleshoot the
front

  panel issue

 

    and get it resolved

 

     before trying to
troubleshoot

  anything

 

    else.  A DMM

 

     measuring

 

    

 

     resistance should help
to see

  if there

 

    is some kind of short

 

     between those two
signals.

 

    

 

    

 

    

 

     Bob

 

 

 

 
------------------------------------

  Posted by: Tracy Barber <adirondack_pc@...>

 
------------------------------------

 

 

 
------------------------------------

 

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      (Yahoo! ID required)

 

 

      chromapolaris-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

 

 

 



   
     

   
   



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------------------------------------
Posted by: Tracy Barber <adirondack_pc@...>
------------------------------------


------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links



    (Yahoo! ID required)


    chromapolaris-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

> Z207, assuming it's a 4053B, if missing will
> silence most of the first voice.

> But the osc B pulse wave should be OK on that voice.

> Syntaur has Polaris keys. Much nicer than gluing the bits
> together...

On Sat, 6/9/18, Bob Grieb bobgrieb@... [chromapolaris] <chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [chromapolaris] OK - I Have Diagnostics Now And They Are Weird
To: chromapolaris@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, June 9, 2018, 1:07 PM


 









Transformers are just wire. (and a thermal fuse)
They sometimes fail, but

have a very low failure rate compared to other
components.

And they don't fail gradually. They either work or
they don't.



The electrolytic capacitors in the power supply may need
replacing, and the trimmer

could be dirty, but the trimmer may be fine as well.
Replacing perfectly good

components in the power supply (not the transformer)
probably makes more sense

than in other parts of the circuit, as a failure in the
supply can cause damage

to other sections. But I don't usually replace
semiconductors in a supply unless

they are not working. If a regulator has been run really
hot for many years, I will

replace it, even if it seems to be working.



But I don't understand why you would wait for a chip
that isn't needed, since it seems

you may have found an issue with a membrane flex cable. I
would think you would want

to see if what you did affects the operation of the front
panel.













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