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VCO antenna problems ...... anyone?

VCO antenna problems ...... anyone?

2007-01-26 by Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N.

Here's a new weird experience for me:

I've got VCO V0.2 about 98% completed. (Still needs 1V/octave
tuning). In wiring up all of the controls and jacks to the front
panel (wood, as all of mine are), for the first time ever in any of
100's of modules that I've built over the years, I have this module
acting as an ANTENNA! :O

The closer that I put my hand to either of the 2 tuning knobs or the
pitch CV Amount knob, the higher the pitch of the VCO becomes. ????

Has anyone else ever had this kind of trouble with any module?

The one new thing that I've done with this module, that I've never
done before - is wrap all of the wiring from the PCB, around other
wires to / from the PCB. I figured I could do that to keep all of the
wiring as neat as possible, instead of using cable ties, to hold them
all together. Could THIS be the cause for picking things up from my
own touch?

When I get ready to do the 1V/O (Mooging? ;) ) today, I thought I
would unwrap each of the 3 voltage feeds (Tune, Fine, CV) from the
wrapped wires to leave them free-hanging, to see if this stops things.

Another difference that I'm surprised by: this VCO is highly affected
by the voltage swings in 1 of my 2 LFOs. (My previous Tom Gamgle
VCO4D and Ian Fritz mini-VCO) aren't affected at all.
Both of them though - have 100uF bypass caps on the power inputs to
their boards. I'm going to try increasing the bypass cap values on
the VCO V0.2 board to 100uF as well as at least 1 x 100nF each. Also
- I'll check my 2 LFOs to see if they have proper bypass caps at their
quad opamps as well.

Thanks to any possible solutions to what I've typed, above. :)


--
Take care,
Warmth and Peace,
Ryk

http://www.sdiy.org/damian/index.html - my modular synth's homepage :)

Re: VCO antenna problems ...... anyone?

2007-01-26 by Jay

Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N. wrote:

> The closer that I put my hand to either of the 2 tuning knobs or the
> pitch CV Amount knob, the higher the pitch of the VCO becomes. ????

Don't fix it, send it to someone to clone! Heh.

Re: VCO antenna problems ...... anyone?

2007-01-27 by Richard Brewster

This could be due to a grounding problem. I suggest double checking the
grounding back to the power supply first. Then check that all the
places that are supposed to be grounded in the VCO actually are
grounded. It could also be due to ground loops, that can cause
"parasitic" oscillations, unwanted high frequency oscillations in
unexpected places. If you have a scope, you should look for parasitics
sitting on the VCO outputs. Ideally, grounds should follow a star
pattern, with all grounds connecting back to the power supply connector
in a direct manner. One way to troubleshoot is to change one or more
ground wires and see if the problem is fixed. By "change" I mean adding
a separate ground wire for each jack, etc..

Look closely for bad solder joints, too, on the entire PC board and all
off-board connections.

Richard Brewster
http://www.pugix.com

Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N. wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Here's a new weird experience for me:
>
> I've got VCO V0.2 about 98% completed. (Still needs 1V/octave
> tuning). In wiring up all of the controls and jacks to the front
> panel (wood, as all of mine are), for the first time ever in any of
> 100's of modules that I've built over the years, I have this module
> acting as an ANTENNA! :O
>
> The closer that I put my hand to either of the 2 tuning knobs or the
> pitch CV Amount knob, the higher the pitch of the VCO becomes. ????
>
> Has anyone else ever had this kind of trouble with any module?
>
> The one new thing that I've done with this module, that I've never
> done before - is wrap all of the wiring from the PCB, around other
> wires to / from the PCB. I figured I could do that to keep all of the
> wiring as neat as possible, instead of using cable ties, to hold them
> all together. Could THIS be the cause for picking things up from my
> own touch?
>
> When I get ready to do the 1V/O (Mooging? ;) ) today, I thought I
> would unwrap each of the 3 voltage feeds (Tune, Fine, CV) from the
> wrapped wires to leave them free-hanging, to see if this stops things.
>
> Another difference that I'm surprised by: this VCO is highly affected
> by the voltage swings in 1 of my 2 LFOs. (My previous Tom Gamgle
> VCO4D and Ian Fritz mini-VCO) aren't affected at all.
> Both of them though - have 100uF bypass caps on the power inputs to
> their boards. I'm going to try increasing the bypass cap values on
> the VCO V0.2 board to 100uF as well as at least 1 x 100nF each. Also
> - I'll check my 2 LFOs to see if they have proper bypass caps at their
> quad opamps as well.
>
> Thanks to any possible solutions to what I've typed, above. :)
>
>
>

Re: VCO antenna problems ...... anyone?

2007-01-27 by sasami@hotkey.net.au

Also tack a 47pf across the feedback resistor in each of the summer op-amps
at the input of the VCO. (between inverting input pin and output)

Ken
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>This could be due to a grounding problem. I suggest double checking the
>grounding back to the power supply first. Then check that all the
>places that are supposed to be grounded in the VCO actually are
>grounded. It could also be due to ground loops, that can cause
>"parasitic" oscillations, unwanted high frequency oscillations in
>unexpected places. If you have a scope, you should look for parasitics
>sitting on the VCO outputs. Ideally, grounds should follow a star
>pattern, with all grounds connecting back to the power supply connector
>in a direct manner. One way to troubleshoot is to change one or more
>ground wires and see if the problem is fixed. By "change" I mean adding
>a separate ground wire for each jack, etc..
>
>Look closely for bad solder joints, too, on the entire PC board and all
>off-board connections.
>
>Richard Brewster
>http://www.pugix.com
>
>Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N. wrote:
>> Here's a new weird experience for me:
>>
>> I've got VCO V0.2 about 98% completed. (Still needs 1V/octave
>> tuning). In wiring up all of the controls and jacks to the front
>> panel (wood, as all of mine are), for the first time ever in any of
>> 100's of modules that I've built over the years, I have this module
>> acting as an ANTENNA! :O
>>
>> The closer that I put my hand to either of the 2 tuning knobs or the
>> pitch CV Amount knob, the higher the pitch of the VCO becomes. ????
>>
>> Has anyone else ever had this kind of trouble with any module?
>>
>> The one new thing that I've done with this module, that I've never
>> done before - is wrap all of the wiring from the PCB, around other
>> wires to / from the PCB. I figured I could do that to keep all of the
>> wiring as neat as possible, instead of using cable ties, to hold them
>> all together. Could THIS be the cause for picking things up from my
>> own touch?
>>
>> When I get ready to do the 1V/O (Mooging? ;) ) today, I thought I
>> would unwrap each of the 3 voltage feeds (Tune, Fine, CV) from the
>> wrapped wires to leave them free-hanging, to see if this stops things.
>>
>> Another difference that I'm surprised by: this VCO is highly affected
>> by the voltage swings in 1 of my 2 LFOs. (My previous Tom Gamgle
>> VCO4D and Ian Fritz mini-VCO) aren't affected at all.
>> Both of them though - have 100uF bypass caps on the power inputs to
>> their boards. I'm going to try increasing the bypass cap values on
>> the VCO V0.2 board to 100uF as well as at least 1 x 100nF each. Also
>> - I'll check my 2 LFOs to see if they have proper bypass caps at their
>> quad opamps as well.
>>
>> Thanks to any possible solutions to what I've typed, above. :)
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>The CGS Modular Synth home page: http://www.cgs.synth.net/
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
_______________________________________________________________________
Ken Stone sasami@...
Modular Synth PCBs for sale <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/synth/>
Australian Miniature Horses & Ponies <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/>

Re: VCO antenna problems ...... anyone?

2007-01-28 by Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N.

Richard, Ken - thankyou HUGELY for your support! Working out the bugs in
this one has been an entire set of experiences (outside of correcting wrong
part's placements) that I've never experienced before. :O :O

The weirdest one, had to be 0V / 1V difference from 1khz to 129khz - 130khz,
depending on the Span trimmer. :O :O
Lo'n'behold, I found I had placed 100pF and 100nF caps in their opposite
placements. Thankfully, THAT has gone away. :O
I was originally still thinking though, that it could have been my winding
ALL wires along the panel, around each other, to keep them tidy. (Instead
of using cable ties, as per normal.)
I'll follow both of your suggestions in checking the module tomorrow, and
see what happens from there. :) (The rest of the misplaced components on
the PCB, when it was previously built at high speed, have been corrected. ;)
Question there - with, A, reversed diode and jumper missing - could I have
killed at TL082, LM311 or CA3140, to SOME degree? )

Again - thank you both hugely, for your help. :)

I've been stumped by this, as Ian Fritz' mini-VCO has worked perfectly, WITH
my dual 100nF compensated power supplies, LFO as well. THIS one though, is
changing pitch along with BOTH of the LFOs. :( (Tom Gamble's VCO4D has
never had a problem with them either. Both of those VCOs are comped with
100uF on their PS inputs.
On THIS one as a possible error correction, I changed the 10uF's to 100uF /
100nFs. No change. :(

Will investigate. :)

And then - failing both of your mentions, I'll continue to UNwind, all of
the twisted pars / triplets / etc., and just cable time them all, as my
previous norm. :)

--
Take care,
Warmth and Peace,
Ryk

http://www.sdiy.org/damian/index.html - my modular synth's homepage :)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: VCO antenna problems ...... anyone?

2007-01-29 by Jason Proctor

>Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N. wrote:
>
>> The closer that I put my hand to either of the 2 tuning knobs or the
> > pitch CV Amount knob, the higher the pitch of the VCO becomes. ????

theremin!

Re: VCO antenna problems ...... anyone?

2007-01-29 by Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N.

As to earlier mention of Ground connections - aye. My entire system is
running on a Star distribution of +/-15VDC and Ground. When I get up to the
point of PCB to pots, I run Ground in a serial fashion: PCB to pot to pot
to pot, instead of a Star configuration from the PCB to each pot. Here
though, the connections are very short. (About 3-4 cm from pot to pot). I
don't know if this would be a trouble - compared - to running each pot's
Ground directly from the PCB. It's never been a trouble with other
modules. ??

A new discovery as of right now: On Friday (when last debugging), putting
in +1V (from my Roland MPU-101 MIDI to CV converter), my frequency increased
from 40hz (0V CVs / tuning pots) to 130,000hz. :O
Right now - I thought I'd test the lead from the MPU-101 for frequency (0hz)
and then, the input jack itself.

Lo'n'behold - 58,000hz on the JACK! ???? I'm going back to the opamp for
that section to look around, as well as continue unwinding the wound up
wires to and from, to see if I can stop things from happening in that area -
as well as checking for any unsoldered / incorrectly soldered or shorted
points.

Sidenote - my staircase / saw combination has finally started working as
well. (Having unwound more wires. ;) )

Also - the pitch stability of the entire thing is calm now. No reactions to
any body part being brought near any of the pots. I'm sort of sticking with
the wires wound together thoughts, as to the possibilities. :O :)

Again - thanks for all help so far. :)

--
Take care,
Warmth and Peace,
Ryk

http://www.sdiy.org/damian/index.html - my modular synth's homepage :)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: VCO antenna problems ...... anyone?

2007-01-29 by Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N.

FINALLY figured it out, by accident!! :)

Checking that all of the chips were properly seated in their sockets,
I noticed that the surface mount 1k tempco resistor was MISSING from
the miniature piece of PCB that I'd soldered it and the wires onto! :O
:O
I soldered on a new one, adding new heatsink compound and testing the
frequency difference again between 0 and +1V gave me 91hz, to 326hz!
:D :D

Now FINALLY, I can properly tune the VCO! All antenna problems are GONE! :)

I almost HATE SMD's, but at $0.75 U.S. for a 1k tempco resistor - I'll
keep using them. ;) Just have to be much more careful in soldering
them to their miniature PCBs. ;)

--
Take care,
Warmth and Peace,
Ryk

http://www.sdiy.org/damian/index.html - my modular synth's homepage :)

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