Bc2000 (for the BCF2000 & BCR2000)

Hi all!

I am new to the group, my name is Andi (hello Andi). I own the BCN44 and mainly use it standalone to program my synths / MultiFX units.

What keeps me from buying the BCR2000 is a bug that renders the BCN44 pretty useless for control of my Alesis Micron and I am afraid that the BCR2000 has the same issue. (I know about the negative NRPN issue and also would love to have a mode where the encoders work contineously through 16284..16383,0,1..127. But this is not the point here.)

In NRPN/Abs14 mode, the BCN44 does not send Data Entry MSB correctly but skips every odd number, i.e.

values displayed: 0..127 
-> values sent: MSB 0, LSB 0..127 -> real NRPN 0..127
values displayed: 128..255 
-> values sent: MSB 0, LSB 0..127 -> real NRPN 0..127!!
values displayed: 256..383 
-> values sent: MSB 2, LSB 0..127 -> real NRPN 256..383
values displayed: 384..511 
-> values sent: MSB 2, LSB 0..127 -> real NRPN 256..383!!
values displayed: 512..639 
-> values sent: MSB 4, LSB 0..127 -> real NRPN 512..639
values displayed: 640..767 
-> values sent: MSB 4, LSB 0..127 -> real NRPN 512..639!!
...and so on. 

This means, that parameters with more than 127 steps will not increase steadily but jump around and certain parameter ranges are unreachable (pretty awful for filter frequency). Also, MSB 127 is never sent, thus I cannot send values 16284...16383 which are needed for negative parameters of my Micron.

Could anyone please verify this on the BCR2000?


Last but not least - could anyone please upload the latest files of BC Manager for BCN44 and BCR2000 (http://rapidshare.com/)? It's not available from http://mntn-utils.110mb.com/ anymore :(


Cheers,
Andi

andi_k_81 wrote:

 > Last but not least - could anyone please upload the latest files of 
BC Manager for BCN44 and BCR2000 (http://rapidshare.com/)? It's not 
available from http://mntn-utils.110mb.com/ anymore :(

Hi Andi,

it is still available from Marks's website! I just downloaded it from 
there a couple of minutes ago.

cu

Perry Staltic

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "andi_k_81" <a-v-a-t-a-r@...> wrote:
> What keeps me from buying the BCR2000 is a bug that renders the BCN44 pretty useless for control of my Alesis Micron and I am afraid that the BCR2000 has the same issue.
> 
> In NRPN/Abs14 mode, the BCN44 does not send Data Entry MSB correctly but skips every odd number

I've checked: my BCN44 does exactly the same. Nasty!

So I think you should lodge a complaint with Behringer about the BCN44: this is a REALLY serious bug, so they should publish a firmware upgrade that people can download and install.

By the way: my own BCN44's firmware version is 1.02 (which is displayed briefly when you switch the unit on). As far as I know, this is indeed the latest firmware version, but in theory there might be a more recent version in which this bug has already been fixed.

 > Could anyone please verify this on the BCR2000?

Done: the BCF2000 and BCR2000 work correctly in this situation. E.g. 128 is output with MSB=01 and LSB=00.
So I think you can safely buy a BCR2000 - at least in THIS respect!

> Last but not least - could anyone please upload the latest files of BC Manager for BCN44 and BCR2000 (http://rapidshare.com/)?

No!
As stated in the documentation, it is strictly forbidden to offer these programs from any other download location.
Sorry to be so strict, but I don't want different versions floating around on the internet (not to mention versions with malware attached).

It's not available from http://mntn-utils.110mb.com/ anymore :(

Please try again from mntn-utils.110mb.com - occasionally the 110mb.com server goes down for a few hours, but (like Perry Staltic) I had no problems just now.
(If you're VERY unlucky, your computer could be in an IP range that has been banned by the 110mb.com server in reaction to past DDOS attacks. In that case, simply try downloading from a different IP address - with apologies for the inconvenience.)

Mark.

Hi Mark and Perry,

thanks for your quick replies!! This makes my decision towards the BCR2000 a lot easier :)


The BC Manager website seems to be up again but was unreachable until this morning... Nice work, Marc! You should get paid by Behringer for adding that much value to their products...

I'd love to set up a Button on the BCN44 to send an NRPN message, but the limitation of 11Bytes is 1 Byte too small :(

But - when I enter something into the Custom field with BCN44 Manager, the OK button gets grayed out as soon as I enter more than 2 letters. Why?

Cheers, Andi

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "Mark van den Berg" <markwinvdb@...> wrote:

>
> --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "andi_k_81" <a-v-a-t-a-r@> wrote:
> > What keeps me from buying the BCR2000 is a bug that renders the BCN44 pretty useless for control of my Alesis Micron and I am afraid that the BCR2000 has the same issue.
> > 
> > In NRPN/Abs14 mode, the BCN44 does not send Data Entry MSB correctly but skips every odd number
> 
> I've checked: my BCN44 does exactly the same. Nasty!
> 
> So I think you should lodge a complaint with Behringer about the BCN44: this is a REALLY serious bug, so they should publish a firmware upgrade that people can download and install.
> 
> By the way: my own BCN44's firmware version is 1.02 (which is displayed briefly when you switch the unit on). As far as I know, this is indeed the latest firmware version, but in theory there might be a more recent version in which this bug has already been fixed.
> 
>  > Could anyone please verify this on the BCR2000?
> 
> Done: the BCF2000 and BCR2000 work correctly in this situation. E.g. 128 is output with MSB=01 and LSB=00.
> So I think you can safely buy a BCR2000 - at least in THIS respect!
> 
> > Last but not least - could anyone please upload the latest files of BC Manager for BCN44 and BCR2000 (http://rapidshare.com/)?
> 
> No!
> As stated in the documentation, it is strictly forbidden to offer these programs from any other download location.
> Sorry to be so strict, but I don't want different versions floating around on the internet (not to mention versions with malware attached).
> 
> It's not available from http://mntn-utils.110mb.com/ anymore :(
> 
> Please try again from mntn-utils.110mb.com - occasionally the 110mb.com server goes down for a few hours, but (like Perry Staltic) I had no problems just now.
> (If you're VERY unlucky, your computer could be in an IP range that has been banned by the 110mb.com server in reaction to past DDOS attacks. In that case, simply try downloading from a different IP address - with apologies for the inconvenience.)
> 
> Mark.
>

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "andi_k_81" <a-v-a-t-a-r@...> wrote:
> when I enter something into the Custom field with BCN44 Manager, the OK button gets grayed out as soon as I enter more than 2 letters. Why?

You need to enter a sequence of hexadecimal numbers (no "$" prefix or "h" suffix), separated by spaces.

> I'd love to set up a Button on the BCN44 to send an NRPN message, but the limitation of 11Bytes is 1 Byte too small :(

In principle you CAN put an NRPN message under "Custom": if you use "MIDI running status", the 4 Control Change messages required for an NRPN message don't take 12, but just 9 bytes!
The trick of "MIDI running status" is that you can leave out any status byte that is the same as the status byte of the previous MIDI message:

E.g.:

B0 63 01 (NRPN MSB)
-- 62 02 (NRPN LSB)
-- 06 03 (Data MSB)
-- 26 04 (Data LSB)

So in BCN44 Manager you would enter this as "B0 63 01 62 02 06 03 26 04".

HOWEVER (cf. the warning message on the BCN44 page of my website): in my experience, if you put channel messages (such as NRPN) in the BCN44's "custom" field, the BCN44 tends to produce spurious output. I don't know whether this is a problem in your specific case - feel free to experiment.

Another problem (probably even more serious in your case): in a "custom" definition you can state which of the bytes included is actually determined by the encoder's value (position), but (as far as I know) this can only involve a 7-bit value (i.e. from 0 to 127), not a 14-bit value. (If the BCN44 does allow this, I simply haven't discovered it yet...)

Mark.

One issue that you'll run into with the Micron is the BCR2000 doesn't output Negative NRPN Values. I bought both the Micron and the BCR2000 in the hopes I could control the Micron. I can for many parameters, but for others I can't, or at least not the full range. 

Behringer has been asked by probably every Micron user in the world to update the firmware to allow for Negative NRPN values, I guess none of 'em spoke German.

Google 'Micron Negative NRPN', you'll find more than enough info to help make the best choice.

One option you have if you own both Micron\BCR is buying some of the software editors for the Micron. A lot of these allow the BCR to control the previously unusable parameters by converting CC messages to NRPN's. I use MidiCTRL. Looks the best and is probably the most feature filled. I still end up using the mouse more though...

Erik

Thanks, Erik. I am aware of that.

But at least one can use 2 encoders for 1 Parameter, i.e. one for -100%..0 and the other one for 0..100% The main reason for me to buy the BCR is mostly that I want to have lots of knobs without the need  of a computer.

I tried several software editors, micronizer being the latest one. But it's not very stable, development stalled several times and the UI is ... pedestrian.

MidiCTRL seems to be discontinued / not maintained anymore.

There is a video on youtube that explains a free software solution: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLdoNvS16HU 

...maybe I will try that when the BCR arrives.


But I will definitely send Behringer a feature request regarding the negative NRPN issue - in both German and English ;)


Cheers, Andi
 

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "Erik Hines" <sablerock@...> wrote:

>
> One issue that you'll run into with the Micron is the BCR2000 doesn't output Negative NRPN Values. I bought both the Micron and the BCR2000 in the hopes I could control the Micron. I can for many parameters, but for others I can't, or at least not the full range. 
> 
> Behringer has been asked by probably every Micron user in the world to update the firmware to allow for Negative NRPN values, I guess none of 'em spoke German.
> 
> Google 'Micron Negative NRPN', you'll find more than enough info to help make the best choice.
> 
> One option you have if you own both Micron\BCR is buying some of the software editors for the Micron. A lot of these allow the BCR to control the previously unusable parameters by converting CC messages to NRPN's. I use MidiCTRL. Looks the best and is probably the most feature filled. I still end up using the mouse more though...
> 
> Erik
>

Just an update - my BCR2000 arrived and I am quite happy with it.

Regarding the BCN44-NRPN-Bug and support of negative NRPNs in BCN44 and BCR2000, I sent a bug report / feature request to Behringer Germany via http://www.behringer.de/EN/Support/Online-Support.aspx 

They instantly (!) replied that they forwarded it to the development team....

I'm not sure if this is enough for them to create firmware updates, so I'd like to encourage other BCN44 / BCR2000 / Micron owners to contact Behringer as well.

Cheers,
Andi



--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "andi_k_81" <a-v-a-t-a-r@...> wrote:

>
> Hi all!
> 
> I am new to the group, my name is Andi (hello Andi). I own the BCN44 and mainly use it standalone to program my synths / MultiFX units.
> 
> What keeps me from buying the BCR2000 is a bug that renders the BCN44 pretty useless for control of my Alesis Micron and I am afraid that the BCR2000 has the same issue. (I know about the negative NRPN issue and also would love to have a mode where the encoders work contineously through 16284..16383,0,1..127. But this is not the point here.)
> 
> In NRPN/Abs14 mode, the BCN44 does not send Data Entry MSB correctly but skips every odd number, i.e.
> 
> values displayed: 0..127 
> -> values sent: MSB 0, LSB 0..127 -> real NRPN 0..127
> values displayed: 128..255 
> -> values sent: MSB 0, LSB 0..127 -> real NRPN 0..127!!
> values displayed: 256..383 
> -> values sent: MSB 2, LSB 0..127 -> real NRPN 256..383
> values displayed: 384..511 
> -> values sent: MSB 2, LSB 0..127 -> real NRPN 256..383!!
> values displayed: 512..639 
> -> values sent: MSB 4, LSB 0..127 -> real NRPN 512..639
> values displayed: 640..767 
> -> values sent: MSB 4, LSB 0..127 -> real NRPN 512..639!!
> ...and so on. 
> 
> This means, that parameters with more than 127 steps will not increase steadily but jump around and certain parameter ranges are unreachable (pretty awful for filter frequency). Also, MSB 127 is never sent, thus I cannot send values 16284...16383 which are needed for negative parameters of my Micron.
> 
> Could anyone please verify this on the BCR2000?
> 
> 
> Last but not least - could anyone please upload the latest files of BC Manager for BCN44 and BCR2000 (http://rapidshare.com/)? It's not available from http://mntn-utils.110mb.com/ anymore :(
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> Andi
>