Bc2000 (for the BCF2000 & BCR2000)

Hi all,

I've just purchased a BCR2000, and it's been fairly easy to configure it to _send_ MIDI messages to VST synths and DAW. I use it with both Forte (www.brainspawn.com) and FL studio.

So far, I've only been able to get the feedback feature to work with the OP-X Pro VST synth (www.sonicprojects.ch) within Forte by using their EHCO plugin, which basically echoes MIDI to other ports. I'll pass on FL Studio's lack of proper MIDI support (Grrrr...)

The OP-X manual states the following: "OP-X PRO now supports full midi cc feedback for endless encoders with parameter settings dump on program change [...] The plugin's midi output has to be routed back to the controller device for this application". I guess that's the reason I was able to send feedback to the BCR2000.

That brings me to my question: 

How is the feedback feature implemented ? Is it simply a matter of sending CC messages to the BCR2000's MIDI port ? I haven't seen any info on this in the BCR's manual.

Assuming that it's relatively easy to send such messages, how come there seems to be so little support for the BCR2000 within the DAW world ?

My reasoning is that if the OPX-Pro is capable of "simply" dumping its parameters on Program Change, why don't others ?

And in the case where there's really no feedback support, for example in a DAW, how could one "hack" this ? Would it be possible to listen to Program Change messages and react to them by reading the VST synth parameters and send them back to the BCR ?

Thank you all for your time.

Luc

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "morin_luc" <luc@...> wrote:
...
> How is the feedback feature implemented ? Is it simply a
> matter of sending CC messages to the BCR2000's MIDI port ?

Yes. If you send let say CC 90 to the BCR, the encoder
programmed to send a CC 90 will 'move' to the received value.

> Assuming that it's relatively easy to send such messages,
> how come there seems to be so little support for the BCR2000
> within the DAW world ?

Because they did not manage to cross-breed a electronician and
a programmer... ;) There is still two separate worlds:
hardware and software.

> My reasoning is that if the OPX-Pro is capable of "simply"
> dumping its parameters on Program Change, why don't others ?

Lazyness i suppose... :(

> And in the case where there's really no feedback support,
> for example in a DAW, how could one "hack" this ? Would it be
> possible to listen to Program Change messages and react to them
> by reading the VST synth parameters and send them back to the BCR?

Yes it is possible. But it is a long story...

If you config is : BCR -> Midiport A -> DAW

Install Midi Yoke to have 'virtual ports'. Then modidy you config
to: BCR -> Midiport A -> ? -> Virtualport B -> DAW

Replace the ? in the above config with a piece of programme.
This program would listen to 'program change' from the BCR.
Pass it to the DAW through the virtual port. Then it could
get patch data and send it back to the BCR in the form of
multiple control change messages.

You 'only' have to develop this program yet ;)

Hi Bernard,

Thank you for the information.

While it might take some time to implement, I don't suppose it would be very difficult to write the code to send the patch data to the BCR.

The part I'm worried about is how to obtain the patch data from a VST plugin. Short of having access to the VST Host, I don't suppose there's a way of accessing the plugin. If the host doesn't offer a hook mechanism of some kind, then game is over. Unless there is a MIDI way of retrieving the data ?

Regards.

Luc

I have never done any dev on VST so i cannot say...
I think what you are looking for is a special kind of VST that i would call a VST-host or VST wrapper. It would do the interface between the sequencer and the real VST. Then we would know exactly what is happening during preset changes and from that it could decide to send a snapshot to the BCR. It is probably what Novation is doing with their 'Remote SL'.

Bernard,

The idea of a VST wrapper is worth investigating.

I know MIDevice has such a wrapper, but it doesn't support the functionality I'm looking for.

Now for the fun part: learn the VST standard and API.

Regards.

Luc