SergeModular

On 2010-09-30, at 8:47 AM, Frank Hettlich wrote:

Roel,

I had my tech made some banana <-> 1/8 mini cables. That works much smoother than gooing through another module.

The grounding considerations obviously are still there then (I generally "solve" that grounding issue "easily" by connecting all devices to my mixer using a 1/8 or 1/4 cable, i. e. in your case - besides your Serge panel - connecting one of the MAQ cv or gate sockets to one of your mixer inputs. There is no "functionality" doing so but no grounding issues at all).

If you still want to go with an external converter module I much prefer the MOTM 940 patch panel which offers grounding sockets for 8 "channels":
http://www.synthtech.com/motm940.html

I connect each and everything (ok, not my girl-friend) with my Serge and had no issues at all (playing the Animal with an ARP Odyssey is pure fun).

All the best

Frank

-------- Original-Nachricht --------
> Datum: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 11:20:46 -0000
> Von: "roelelec" <r.steverink@...>
> An: SergeModular@yahoogroups.com
> Betreff: [SergeModular] Serge + Doepfer MAQ 16/3 sequencer?

> Hi guys,
>
> I'm wondering.
> If I would buy say f.i. the Q121 Banana jack interface from
> synthesizer.com, would it then be possible to hook the Serge up
> to the Doepfer MAQ 16/3 sequencer?
>
> Of course midi is here a no go, but can it be done with the
> gate/cv outs?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roel
>

On 2010-09-30, at 2:27 PM, Bill Felton wrote:

I suspect it's redundancy, probably caused by a difference in use cases. If you interoperate multiple synths with different plug/jack factors and power supplies, the easiest approach is to make sure all the power supplies are grounded together. Then you can safely ignore grounding issues in your patch cables. (as long as you don't run into the odd ground loop. IIRC, there was once a notion that patch cables should not connect the ground at both ends, leaving one end floating, specifically to prevent this problem. But that means you can't rely on those cables to pass ground to connected gear. An ohmmeter is your friend ;-) )

If, on the other hand, each manufacturer's gear has an output that goes to a common mixer, you're probably safe ignoring ground issues for the patching cables on or even between pieces of gear. For my use, and I suspect yours as well, this is at least 'fragile' in that it isn't always guaranteed that each form factor will be grounded to the mixing board. And in that case you have to have some mechanism for sharing the ground between the 2 synths. I figure it's peace of mind, if nothing else, to just make sure all the power supplies get grounded together so I can forget about it when patching.

I'll also go ahead and echo the suggestion that custom cables are superior to a panel-based approach for changing form-factor. I have a whole slew of banana to 1/8" and 1/4" cables. Started with a batch of each I got from Rex when I bought my first panels way back when. Since then I've made a bunch more. Since black is "reserved" for grounding, and that's behind the systems, I bought a handful of 6' black banana cables, cut them roughly in half, cut a corresponding number of my 1/8" cables in half, and soldered/tape wrapped the joints. They work just fine, even if they lack a bit in the elegance department ;-)

cheers,

Bill

On Sep 30, 2010, at 11:23 AM, BooleanYulian wrote:

that is clear.. but each system/synth/seq's 1/4 or 1/8 jack will have its own ground on the ring of the connector.. all the grounds get ganged together to be connected to the serge PSU.. so i'm just trying to understand the purpose of the multi grounds in this case.. if I wanted to connect my SAM16, TR606 and Flame Clockwork to the SERGE using this MOTM adapter, then I'd need to connect all the grounds together on the MOTM and then connect the result to the SERGE PSU GND.. kinda redundant

even in the case where you'd be using two different banana systems, like in my case; SERGE and Modcan.. you'd still need to connect the ground on both PSUs together.. hence.. no need for multi gnds here either.. can anyone clarify the need for these? am i missing something?

tks :)

On 2010-09-30, at 9:40 AM, Frank Hettlich wrote:

Multiple systems/synths/sequencers connected to the Serge!?

-------- Original-Nachricht --------
> Datum: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 09:11:11 -0400
> Von: BooleanYulian <a.b@...>
> An: SergeModular@yahoogroups.com
> Betreff: Re: [SergeModular] Serge + Doepfer MAQ 16/3 sequencer?

> What would be the advantage of multiple grounds if all 1/4 or 1/8 gear is
> connected to the SERGE?
>
>
> On 2010-09-30, at 8:47 AM, Frank Hettlich wrote:
>
> > Roel,
> >
> > I had my tech made some banana <-> 1/8 mini cables. That works much
> smoother than gooing through another module.
> >
> > The grounding considerations obviously are still there then (I generally
> "solve" that grounding issue "easily" by connecting all devices to my
> mixer using a 1/8 or 1/4 cable, i. e. in your case - besides your Serge panel -
> connecting one of the MAQ cv or gate sockets to one of your mixer inputs.
> There is no "functionality" doing so but no grounding issues at all).
> >
> > If you still want to go with an external converter module I much prefer
> the MOTM 940 patch panel which offers grounding sockets for 8 "channels":
> > http://www.synthtech.com/motm940.html
> >
> > I connect each and everything (ok, not my girl-friend) with my Serge and
> had no issues at all (playing the Animal with an ARP Odyssey is pure fun).
> >
> > All the best
> >
> > Frank
> >
> > -------- Original-Nachricht --------
> > > Datum: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 11:20:46 -0000
> > > Von: "roelelec" <r.steverink@...>
> > > An: SergeModular@yahoogroups.com
> > > Betreff: [SergeModular] Serge + Doepfer MAQ 16/3 sequencer?
> >
> > > Hi guys,
> > >
> > > I'm wondering.
> > > If I would buy say f.i. the Q121 Banana jack interface from
> > > synthesizer.com, would it then be possible to hook the Serge up
> > > to the Doepfer MAQ 16/3 sequencer?
> > >
> > > Of course midi is here a no go, but can it be done with the
> > > gate/cv outs?
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > Roel
> > >
> >
>

On 2010-09-30, at 3:56 PM, Bill Felton wrote:

What I find to be the advantage of cables over panels are both fewer interconnections and the option to make the cables as long as needed. Plus I fear that a panel would always wind up 1 (or more) short of the number of connections I need to make at the moment ;-) Kind of a variant of my general gripe about multiples -- you need too many and you never have the right amount. Plus they're always taking up panel space that could be devoted to "more useful" [/snark] modules. But there shouldn't be any grounding issues with a panel and it might be an easy way to get things interconnected for grounds in a "simple" setup. And if you actually are comfortable that a panel would provide ample interconnects, there's no real reason not to go for it.

Shouldn't matter whether the signals are audio or cv, there's ultimately no difference (at least as long as we're not talking Buchla ;-> ). I've never had an issue with either, although once in a while there are level issues that have to be dealt with. So if your audio signals are grounded your control voltage signals will be as well. Again, modulo Buchla, with which I have zero experience. I still don't buy the explanations for separating out audio and control voltage in his stuff... But it seems to work. There's a wonderful piece up on muff wiggler forum now that shows off the Buchla quite well.

I just find interconnecting the power supplies to a common ground to be the simplest approach -- do it once and then forget about it. Admittedly, some of the behind panel wiring isn't pretty given what I had to do to connect ground from the Serge and Modcan to the dot com keyboard and the Doepfer and Cwejman and AS cases. But out of sight out of mind ;-) Generally, find a screw that connects internally to something that's grounded to the power system, wrap a wire loop around it and tighten it down, run the cable on to the next "victim". It's only ugly at the dot com keyboard, where I had to run the loop around the nut surrounding one of the output jacks. There may be a better way to do it, but this worked so I stopped hassling about it ;-)

cheers,

Bill

On Sep 30, 2010, at 3:38 PM, BooleanYulian wrote:

Thank you for the clarifications Bill.

As you point out; the PSUs are to be grounded together.. I guess I assumed that all PSUs have grounding terminals :).. even if they dont, a banana lug (like the one provided with the SERGE grounding kit) can be screwed to the PSU and then connected to the SERGE's ground. I did that with my FracRack and it works great.

I like the common mixer idea, I just wonder if CV will be grounded as well as audio.

Could you pls clarify as to why banana-to-whatever custom cables are better than a panel? Is it because there are less interconnections or is it a grounding thinggie?

cheers

y.

On 2010-09-30, at 2:27 PM, Bill Felton wrote:

I suspect it's redundancy, probably caused by a difference in use cases. If you interoperate multiple synths with different plug/jack factors and power supplies, the easiest approach is to make sure all the power supplies are grounded together. Then you can safely ignore grounding issues in your patch cables. (as long as you don't run into the odd ground loop. IIRC, there was once a notion that patch cables should not connect the ground at both ends, leaving one end floating, specifically to prevent this problem. But that means you can't rely on those cables to pass ground to connected gear. An ohmmeter is your friend ;-) )

If, on the other hand, each manufacturer's gear has an output that goes to a common mixer, you're probably safe ignoring ground issues for the patching cables on or even between pieces of gear. For my use, and I suspect yours as well, this is at least 'fragile' in that it isn't always guaranteed that each form factor will be grounded to the mixing board. And in that case you have to have some mechanism for sharing the ground between the 2 synths. I figure it's peace of mind, if nothing else, to just make sure all the power supplies get grounded together so I can forget about it when patching.

I'll also go ahead and echo the suggestion that custom cables are superior to a panel-based approach for changing form-factor. I have a whole slew of banana to 1/8" and 1/4" cables. Started with a batch of each I got from Rex when I bought my first panels way back when. Since then I've made a bunch more. Since black is "reserved" for grounding, and that's behind the systems, I bought a handful of 6' black banana cables, cut them roughly in half, cut a corresponding number of my 1/8" cables in half, and soldered/tape wrapped the joints. They work just fine, even if they lack a bit in the elegance department ;-)

cheers,

Bill

On Sep 30, 2010, at 11:23 AM, BooleanYulian wrote:

that is clear.. but each system/synth/seq's 1/4 or 1/8 jack will have its own ground on the ring of the connector.. all the grounds get ganged together to be connected to the serge PSU.. so i'm just trying to understand the purpose of the multi grounds in this case.. if I wanted to connect my SAM16, TR606 and Flame Clockwork to the SERGE using this MOTM adapter, then I'd need to connect all the grounds together on the MOTM and then connect the result to the SERGE PSU GND.. kinda redundant

even in the case where you'd be using two different banana systems, like in my case; SERGE and Modcan.. you'd still need to connect the ground on both PSUs together.. hence.. no need for multi gnds here either.. can anyone clarify the need for these? am i missing something?

tks :)

On 2010-09-30, at 9:40 AM, Frank Hettlich wrote:

Multiple systems/synths/sequencers connected to the Serge!?

-------- Original-Nachricht --------
> Datum: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 09:11:11 -0400
> Von: BooleanYulian <a.b@...>
> An: SergeModular@yahoogroups.com
> Betreff: Re: [SergeModular] Serge + Doepfer MAQ 16/3 sequencer?

> What would be the advantage of multiple grounds if all 1/4 or 1/8 gear is
> connected to the SERGE?
>
>
> On 2010-09-30, at 8:47 AM, Frank Hettlich wrote:
>
> > Roel,
> >
> > I had my tech made some banana <-> 1/8 mini cables. That works much
> smoother than gooing through another module.
> >
> > The grounding considerations obviously are still there then (I generally
> "solve" that grounding issue "easily" by connecting all devices to my
> mixer using a 1/8 or 1/4 cable, i. e. in your case - besides your Serge panel -
> connecting one of the MAQ cv or gate sockets to one of your mixer inputs.
> There is no "functionality" doing so but no grounding issues at all).
> >
> > If you still want to go with an external converter module I much prefer
> the MOTM 940 patch panel which offers grounding sockets for 8 "channels":
> > http://www.synthtech.com/motm940.html
> >
> > I connect each and everything (ok, not my girl-friend) with my Serge and
> had no issues at all (playing the Animal with an ARP Odyssey is pure fun).
> >
> > All the best
> >
> > Frank
> >
> > -------- Original-Nachricht --------
> > > Datum: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 11:20:46 -0000
> > > Von: "roelelec" <r.steverink@...>
> > > An: SergeModular@yahoogroups.com
> > > Betreff: [SergeModular] Serge + Doepfer MAQ 16/3 sequencer?
> >
> > > Hi guys,
> > >
> > > I'm wondering.
> > > If I would buy say f.i. the Q121 Banana jack interface from
> > > synthesizer.com, would it then be possible to hook the Serge up
> > > to the Doepfer MAQ 16/3 sequencer?
> > >
> > > Of course midi is here a no go, but can it be done with the
> > > gate/cv outs?
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > Roel
> > >
> >
>