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newbie questions

2009-03-15 by julianthomas221259

Hope you all don't mind a couple of basic newbie questions - is FM synthesis possible on the serge, if so how? I can't see any FM outs on the osc modules. Also what does serge have in place of low pass gates? The modules are so desely packed with features it is a little tricky to see what does what

Re: newbie questions

2009-03-15 by b3nnysf

hey julian,

FM - Frequency modulation is not only possible on a Serge system it is the norm. Just about every function block of the Serge has a 1 volt per octave input. This would give you very intense "exponential FM" very crazy FM, or vise versa, its the common CV control input via CV/gate on most synths.

Most function blocks also have a variable FM input, CV in, this input is scaled via a knob for how much modulation you need, positive or negative. Both of these are semi-crazy Fm because the pitch swings when you increase the modulation.

The Serge osc's have a dedicated FM input that has a special scaling internally for the most sonically correct FM in the audio range. This is the FM that is the holy grail of FM. The fundamental pitch is held while modulation is applied to it. On the NTO this feature is taken one step farther to include voltage control of this FM.

http://www.serge-fans.com/m-class-dual-osc.cfm

As far as a Low pass gate is concerned just choose 3 halves of a DTG or DSG and one vca (xfade) and patch them 1. as an env gen for your xfade or vca 2. as an env gen for the filter and 3. you patch your DTG or DSG as a filter! sure is not resonant at this point but, the common LPG is non-resonant... if you have the mixer function block with the inverter switch you can make it resonant with a feedback loop. Or just use the serge filter... :)

hope that helps!

later,
ben
..

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--- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, "julianthomas221259" <julian@...> wrote:
>
> Hope you all don't mind a couple of basic newbie questions - is FM synthesis possible on the serge, if so how? I can't see any FM outs on the osc modules. Also what does serge have in place of low pass gates? The modules are so desely packed with features it is a little tricky to see what does what
>

Re: newbie questions

2009-03-15 by julianthomas221259

Great Ben thanks!
I've been using Max and supercollider but have really missed the modulars I trained on decades ago when I was a student, so I'm looking for a modular. I can't afford a buchla which is my ideal, and looking around at the options it seems really difficult to specify a system and buy it without waiting sometimes years for the modules, having a vca turn up from one manufacturer and having to waiting months for the other bits is kinda pointless. What attracts me to the serge is the system idea, you spec a system, wait for it, and then the system arrives. Just kinda complicated with the serge in wading through the various panels...

Re: newbie questions

2009-03-15 by don hassler

Really,I'm pretty sure you'll find the Serge to be on a more or less equal footing with a Buchla. The main differences/trade-offs might be the Serge being more open-ended versus the Buchla having some specific musically unique traits such as the lowpass gates, programmability, and a very unique timbrel quality, but often functioning within certain limitations such as the separation of signal and cv.
With the Serge, the M class are wonderfully complete and self contained, yet totally extensible, one can start off quite small and be deeply satisfied. The shop panels are also extremely well thought out, an Animal would be a great start.

Serge and Buchla are well in the strata of super fun. One would want both.

Don

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--- On Sun, 3/15/09, julianthomas221259 <julian@...> wrote:

> From: julianthomas221259 <julian@...>
> Subject: [SergeModular] Re: newbie questions
> To: SergeModular@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sunday, March 15, 2009, 5:58 AM
> Great Ben thanks!
> I've been using Max and supercollider but have really
> missed the modulars I trained on decades ago when I was a
> student, so I'm looking for a modular. I can't
> afford a buchla which is my ideal, and looking around at the
> options it seems really difficult to specify a system and
> buy it without waiting sometimes years for the modules,
> having a vca turn up from one manufacturer and having to
> waiting months for the other bits is kinda pointless. What
> attracts me to the serge is the system idea, you spec a
> system, wait for it, and then the system arrives. Just kinda
> complicated with the serge in wading through the various
> panels...

Re: newbie questions

2009-03-15 by Chris Muir

On Mar 15, 2009, at 2:11 AM, b3nnysf wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text

> As far as a Low pass gate is concerned just choose 3 halves of a DTG
> or DSG and one vca (xfade) and patch them 1. as an env gen for your
> xfade or vca 2. as an env gen for the filter and 3. you patch your
> DTG or DSG as a filter! sure is not resonant at this point but, the
> common LPG is non-resonant... if you have the mixer function block
> with the inverter switch you can make it resonant with a feedback
> loop. Or just use the serge filter... :)

The LPG in a Buchla has very interesting properties because of its use
of a Vactrol as the gain element, which I don't think that the Serge
patch described would have.

- C

Chris Muir
cbm@...
http://www.xfade.com

Re: newbie questions

2009-03-15 by John P

for a while, I tried emulating a lowpass gate with a DTG, using feedback
(patching DTG out to VC in), varying the response from log to expo, but
not quite finding the right sound. It's probably more involved than
that. Anyway, the DTG can serve as a decent gate in its own right.

Chris Muir wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text

>
>
> On Mar 15, 2009, at 2:11 AM, b3nnysf wrote:
>
> > As far as a Low pass gate is concerned just choose 3 halves of a DTG
> > or DSG and one vca (xfade) and patch them 1. as an env gen for your
> > xfade or vca 2. as an env gen for the filter and 3. you patch your
> > DTG or DSG as a filter! sure is not resonant at this point but, the
> > common LPG is non-resonant... if you have the mixer function block
> > with the inverter switch you can make it resonant with a feedback
> > loop. Or just use the serge filter... :)
>
> The LPG in a Buchla has very interesting properties because of its use
> of a Vactrol as the gain element, which I don't think that the Serge
> patch described would have.
>
> - C
>
> Chris Muir
> c <mailto:cbm%40well.com>
>

Re: newbie questions

2009-03-15 by b3nnysf

hey Chris,

good point! There are no vactrols in any Serge function blocks... So, I guess its never gonna be a replacement for a real LPG. So many manufacturers have made them now, I bet there 4 or more different flavors of that module floating around the net at the moment!!

And PCB's too! you could buy the buchla clone PCB and build it yourself, if you go this route use banana jacks for interfacing with your Serge!

later,
ben
..

Show quoted textHide quoted text

--- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, John P <johnp299792@...> wrote:
>
> for a while, I tried emulating a lowpass gate with a DTG, using feedback
> (patching DTG out to VC in), varying the response from log to expo, but
> not quite finding the right sound. It's probably more involved than
> that. Anyway, the DTG can serve as a decent gate in its own right.
>
> Chris Muir wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Mar 15, 2009, at 2:11 AM, b3nnysf wrote:
> >
> > > As far as a Low pass gate is concerned just choose 3 halves of a DTG
> > > or DSG and one vca (xfade) and patch them 1. as an env gen for your
> > > xfade or vca 2. as an env gen for the filter and 3. you patch your
> > > DTG or DSG as a filter! sure is not resonant at this point but, the
> > > common LPG is non-resonant... if you have the mixer function block
> > > with the inverter switch you can make it resonant with a feedback
> > > loop. Or just use the serge filter... :)
> >
> > The LPG in a Buchla has very interesting properties because of its use
> > of a Vactrol as the gain element, which I don't think that the Serge
> > patch described would have.
> >
> > - C
> >
> > Chris Muir
> > c <mailto:cbm%40well.com>
> >
>

Re: newbie questions

2009-03-15 by John P

there's some in the phase shifter at least... my 12 year old Oakland era
has vactrols...

b3nnysf wrote:

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>
>
> There are no vactrols in any Serge function blocks...
>

Re: newbie questions

2009-03-15 by matthew carpenter

that's true. my oakland era dual phaser does, as well.

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On Sun, Mar 15, 2009 at 6:42 PM, John P <johnp299792@...> wrote:

there's some in the phase shifter at least... my 12 year old Oakland era
has vactrols...

b3nnysf wrote:
>
>
> There are no vactrols in any Serge function blocks...
>

Re: newbie questions

2009-03-15 by don hassler

Same in in my 36 year old era Serge!

--- On Sun, 3/15/09, John P <johnp299792@...> wrote:

> From: John P <johnp299792@...>
> Subject: Re: [SergeModular] Re: newbie questions
> To: SergeModular@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sunday, March 15, 2009, 6:42 PM
> there's some in the phase shifter at least... my 12 year
> old Oakland era
> has vactrols...
>
> b3nnysf wrote:
> >
> >
> > There are no vactrols in any Serge function blocks...
> >

Re: newbie questions

2009-03-15 by b3nnysf

Oops! My mistakes are plainly obvious, I will not be commenting on this one anymore :) hehe, thanks guys, and sorry...

later,
ben
..

Show quoted textHide quoted text

--- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, John P <johnp299792@...> wrote:
>
> there's some in the phase shifter at least... my 12 year old Oakland era
> has vactrols...
>
> b3nnysf wrote:
> >
> >
> > There are no vactrols in any Serge function blocks...
> >
>